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Pham Nuwen posted:I did some shopping this morning and picked up a whole chicken, some steaks, and some chicken breasts. I also have shrimp and fish (tilapia, I think, or maybe catfish) in the freezer, plus ground beef. Other ingredients kicking around: potatoes, onions, eggs, celery, turnips, beans, mushrooms. All Gode Cookery is probably the best resource for medieval recipes. They provide the original text and often convert it to a modern recipe with proper measurements and instructions.
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Mar 4, 2018 04:15
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Gelyne in dubbatte (http://www.godecookery.com/goderec/grec2.htm) Or, chicken in spiced wine. I quartered the raw chicken, then baked it at 350 for about 45 minutes while I prepared the sauce. I didn't have mace so I used about 1/3 tsp nutmeg instead. I used a blender to get the breadcrumbs thoroughly incorporated into the mix. Chicken into a pot:  Sauce onto the chicken:  Then I baked it at 375 for an additional 45 minutes, resulting in:  It's not a particularly attractive dish when you're done:  But the flavor was pretty good. It's juicy, probably because the initial bake didn't cook it fully meaning it was still fully of water which it retained in the braising stage. The clove comes through, less so the cinnamon or nutmeg, but all in all it's an interesting change from the usual flavors you get with chicken. Improvements: I should have removed the skin before pouring in the wine sauce to allow for better penetration; you can see above how half the thigh is still pretty light because it was covered by the skin. The skin picks up flavor, yes, but the texture isn't very good. I seem to remember other historical recipes specifying that chicken skin should be removed, so maybe that was always assumed. The recipe also doesn't specify if you need to cover the dish for the second phase of cooking; I started with it off but covered it partway through as the sauce started to evaporate. Also, I don't know what to do with the leftover sauce, which used most of a bottle of wine and is now just sitting here--maybe reduce it?
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Mar 5, 2018 03:06
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Pham Nuwen posted:Gelyne in dubbatte (http://www.godecookery.com/goderec/grec2.htm) I think it looks amazing, and I want it in my belly NOW!
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Mar 5, 2018 03:32
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1) that is dope as hell and awesome! 2) as to what to do with the wine, maybe sauté some shallots and reduce it with that and mix it with butter? That's basically a beurre de marchand du vin already and that's a pretty good thing to have in the fridge. Goes great on steak and veggies.
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Mar 5, 2018 04:38
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I'm so hungry all of a sudden. Remember your ABCs man: Always Be Concentrating. The concentrate would be great for beef dishes I think. E:^^^ serves me right for not reading the responses.
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Mar 5, 2018 10:59
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Pretty sure you're supposed to give the leftover wine to the poor beggars outside the castle
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Mar 9, 2018 08:58
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Foxfire_ posted:Pretty sure you're supposed to give the leftover wine to the poor beggars outside the castle Along with your trenchers the dogs didn't want to eat
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Mar 9, 2018 16:45
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Suspect Bucket posted:Along with your trenchers the dogs didn't want to eat The guy who made that mawmenny recipe said he poured it over rice and it reminded him of Indian food, but I'm going for authenticity and using really old stale bread.
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Mar 9, 2018 19:52
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Liquid Communism posted:If you want some good entertainment and insight on 18th century (and a few earlier recipes) cooking, check out JAS Townsend & Son's Youtube channel. They're a reproduction wares house for historical recreators, but have a huge passion for how poo poo was actually done, and do a ton of very educational content on old recipes. Their mushroom ketchup recipe is a favorite of mine, although I don't make it often. My favorite of his are all the "this is technically food, it has calories and if you eat it you won't die of starvation" videos. It also made me realize how hard it is to find suet that isn't meant for birds.
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Mar 10, 2018 08:10
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I just bought the ingredients for mawmenny, and I'm on track to make it for dinner tonight. A lot of alcohol is involved, none of which is going into the dish. The trenchers will be day-old whole grain bread left out for over 24 hours.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:22
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You cannot kill yourself until you finish 7.62 man. Also, now that I loving finally have time, I'm gonna make a historical chicken reciepe, hopefully next weekend.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:31
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chitoryu12 posted:I just bought the ingredients for mawmenny, and I'm on track to make it for dinner tonight. A lot of alcohol is involved, none of which is going into the dish. The trenchers will be day-old whole grain bread left out for over 24 hours. Went back in the thread to see what mawmenny you were referencing. It calls for 2c almond milk, which kinda puzzled me. Were there vegan co-op shopping hipsters back in ye olden days, or was almond milk a staple in cultures without cows, or times when dairy wasn't safe/plentiful? (Serious question, with a little bit of I-used-to-work-at-a-co-op bitterness added). It sounds loving delicious, though. Eagerly awaiting results!
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Apr 22, 2018 22:30
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JacquelineDempsey posted:Went back in the thread to see what mawmenny you were referencing. It calls for 2c almond milk, which kinda puzzled me. Were there vegan co-op shopping hipsters back in ye olden days, or was almond milk a staple in cultures without cows, or times when dairy wasn't safe/plentiful? (Serious question, with a little bit of I-used-to-work-at-a-co-op bitterness added). It was a common thing in wealthy medieval European kitchens because of the dual factors of keeping a whole lot better than cow's milk and being lenten and generally appropriate for fast days. EDIT: I made a mawmeny ages ago and it is indeed pretty good, though it's pretty similar to a lot of the other meals in the medieval European genre of "thick stews with pumpkin pie spice". willing to settle fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 00:01
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willing to settle posted:It was a common thing in wealthy medieval European kitchens because of the dual factors of keeping a whole lot better than cow's milk and being lenten and generally appropriate for fast days. Ah! Thanks, that make sense. Weird how something trendy for medieval wealthy is trendy again for modern people who can afford almond milk, though for totally different reasons. What goes around comes around, I guess.
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Apr 23, 2018 00:21
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 I think a LOT more saffron is necessary for this much food.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:20
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Careful now, saffron is meant to be used sparingly and not to dominate the dish.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:23
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Careful now, saffron is meant to be used sparingly and not to dominate the dish. I’ll post the recipe in a bit, but the pinch suggested didn’t add really anything to the flavor or color. It came out very sweet, in fact. All of the other spices are equaled by the amount of sugar.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:46
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willing to settle posted:It was a common thing in wealthy medieval European kitchens because of the dual factors of keeping a whole lot better than cow's milk and being lenten and generally appropriate for fast days. One thing I've learned from historical recipes is that 'nutmeg' is a verb, and they will use it liberally. chitoryu12 posted:I’ll post the recipe in a bit, but the pinch suggested didn’t add really anything to the flavor or color. Did you use unsweetened almond milk? The historical version was likely just pressed almonds, as sugar was somewhat expensive on its own.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:37
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Apparently you can get high off nutmeg with awful after effects, I wonder if someone tried that back and wrote about this.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:54
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Liquid Communism posted:Did you use unsweetened almond milk? The historical version was likely just pressed almonds, as sugar was somewhat expensive on its own. I did, since I kept that in consideration when making purchases. I also served it on authentically stale whole grain bread, which Joey said tasted even better than the chicken after it was done soaking in.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:59
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I tend to find that the medieval... I suppose you could call them "curries", most suited to modern tastes are the ones that rely more heavily on vinegar and in the case of Andalusian Arabic food, a soy sauce analogue. Balancing out the sweetness and warm spices with some sourness or savoriness was pretty common and creates a more contemporary flavor profile.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:44
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Apparently you can get high off nutmeg with awful after effects, I wonder if someone tried that back and wrote about this. You have to eat like an unforgivable quantity of nutmeg for this, IIRC, and then it's not even a good trip.
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Apr 23, 2018 18:39
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All right, here's the rest of the pictures and the recipe, from Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books 1430-1450.quote:Malmenye Furne. Take gode Milke of Almaundys, & flowre of Rys, & gode Wyne crete, or the brawn of a Capoune, other of Fesaunte, & Sugre, & pouder Gyngere, & Galyngale, & of Canelle, & boyle y-fere; & make it chargeaunt, & coloure it with Alkenade, other with Saunderys; & if it be Red, a-lye it with olkys of Eyroun; & make smal cofyns of dow, & coloure hem with-owte, & bake on an ovyn, & coloure with-ynne & wyth-oute; then haue Hony y-boylid hote, & take a dyssche, & wete thin dyssche in the hony, & with the wete dyssche ley the malmenye & the cofyns; & whan they ben bake, & thou dressest yn, caste a-boue blaunche pouder, Quybibe, mace, Gelofre; & thanne serue it forth. quote:1 pound chicken  I only have a pic of most of the ingredients because Joey was mixing the almond milk, eggs, and rice flour behind me.   As you can see, a pinch of saffron wasn't quite enough to affect a pot of this size. The bread is Publix whole grain bread that I left out for 24 hours. General verdict is "fine". The amount of spices is relatively small when mixed into such a large quantity of liquid, so you'd want either more spices or half the amount of mawmenny to flavor. It's gently sweet and has no vinegar, wine, or heavy spices like black pepper to balance it. Pairs well with nigori sake.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:44
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chitoryu12 posted:It's gently sweet and has no vinegar, wine, or heavy spices like black pepper to balance it. There’s wine in the medieval recipe but not in the modernisation for some reason. Lost in translation? (Although I think wyne crete is sweet wine)
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Apr 24, 2018 07:43
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Tangential to the subject of saffron, try lightly toasting some then crumble it into your cookie mix. It makes snickerdoodles taste terrific and would probably complement other types of cookies.
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Apr 24, 2018 09:17
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Soricidus posted:There’s wine in the medieval recipe but not in the modernisation for some reason. Lost in translation? Ah, now I see it. I'm thinking "wyne crete" might be literal, as in wine from Crete. I did some looking and I think Crete really was just called Crete in English at the time despite being under Venetian rule. The index for the book has it listed separately from "swete wyne".
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Apr 24, 2018 13:50
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Saffron is pretty pricey outside of Asian markets today; it was probably even more so when the recipe was written. Is this dish just intended as a platform to show off a nobleman's spice rack?
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Apr 24, 2018 15:39
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Davin Valkri posted:Saffron is pretty pricey outside of Asian markets today; it was probably even more so when the recipe was written. Is this dish just intended as a platform to show off a nobleman's spice rack? Pretty much every wealthy man’s dish from medieval times has at least 3 or 4 different spices and herbs, in addition to salt and possibly sugar.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:50
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If the saffron is mostly for colour instead of flavor, try using Mexican saffron (safflower) or marigold instead.
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Apr 24, 2018 18:40
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counterpoint: saffron is not that expensive for how little you need, I could easily flavour 10-15 cups of tea with 1 gram
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Apr 24, 2018 18:45
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chitoryu12 posted:Ah, now I see it. I'm thinking "wyne crete" might be literal, as in wine from Crete. I did some looking and I think Crete really was just called Crete in English at the time despite being under Venetian rule. The index for the book has it listed separately from "swete wyne". Oh, yes, I’m sure it’s literal. Just the dictionary I checked also mentioned that Cretan wine implied a sweet wine in those days, which is why they might specify it instead of just any old wine.
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Apr 24, 2018 20:45
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I've reheated the remaining portion of mawmenny so I can give a more immediate perspective. The strongest smells from the hot food are definitely the cinnamon and nutmeg (standing in for mace). It almost smells like a dessert more than an entree. The taste is sort of milky and cinnamony at first, followed by roast chicken as you finish biting into a piece.
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Apr 24, 2018 22:14
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I’ve been making salumi for a few years now. A while back, I adapted a recipe, from Apicius’ cookbook, for lucanicae sausages. As Apicius describes them, they are smoked, but it’s not obvious whether the end product is fresh (that is, needing to be eaten right away) or dried. You can find lots of adaptations of the recipe out there, but they always assume that the lucanicae are fresh. I wanted to make a dried salami. Here’s Apicius’ recipe: "Apicius posted:Lucanicas similiter ut supra scriptum est: Lucanicarum confectio teritur piper, cuminum, satureia, ruta, petroselinum, condimentum, bacae lauri, liquamen, et admiscetur pulpa bene tunsa ita ut denuo bene cum ipso subtrito fricetur. Cum liquamine admixto, pipere integro et abundanti pinguedine et nucleis inicies in intestinum perquam tenuatim perductum, et sic ad fumum suspenditur. and my translation: quote:Lucanicas are made much as is written above: to make lucanicae, grind pepper, cumin, savory, rue, parsley, condiment, laurel berries, liquamen, and mix it into the well-beaten meat*, so that it can be blended with the ground spice mixture. Stir in the liquamen, whole pepper, abundant fat, and pine nuts. Stuff them into a very thinly drawn out intestine and hang it by the smoke. Apicius is notorious for being vague, so there’s a lot of room for interpretation here. Right off the bat, I avoided rue, which is hard to get (and is mildly toxic). I also left out parsley because I forgot to pick any up at the store, and used bay leaves instead of laurel berries. Apicius includes "condimentum" ("condiment") which seems to be just "spice"; I put in a little oregano. The toughest question I had was how much fish sauce to use. For safety sake, cured meats generally need over 2% salt by weight. Knowing just how much sauce (that is, liquid salt) to use isn’t obvious. Last time I went 50/50 on salt/fish sauce. I didn’t die and it wasn’t aggressively fishy, so this time I went with a 2:1 ratio. (I recently found out that Red Boat makes a fish salt, and I’ll order that for next time; it’s less authentic but it’s easier to be consistent.) Here are the ratios I used: Pork butt (85%), ground Pork fat (15%), hand-cut Black pepper (ground) 1% Savory (dried) .1% Oregano .1% Cumin (ground) .4% Pine nuts .8% Bay leaves (ground) .1% Black pepper (whole) .2% Fish sauce 1.8% Salt .9% Cure #2 .25% Dextrose .3% Bactoferm F-RM-52 starter culture Here are the non-meat ingredients (apologies for lovely phone pictures):  I stuffed it all into hog casings, which frankly I don’t like working with (I prefer wider casings), but they seem like what a Roman cook would use. Here’s a loop:  These all went into the cold smoker for about six hours, then fermented for another eighteen hours. After that, into the curing chamber (recently cleaned, so they’re alone in it for now) to dry:  I’m guessing these will take about six weeks to be ready: I want them to lose 40% of their weight. I'll report back when they are done.
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May 15, 2018 16:17
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They at least sound good!
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May 15, 2018 16:21
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chitoryu12 posted:They at least sound good! Thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing how these turn out. The last batch was good and I'm hoping that more smoke and more fish funk will make them a little more interesting.
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May 15, 2018 16:33
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Love the look of them. I'd have thought that they'd be more likely to be smoked to preserve than a fresh sausage. But my knowledge of cured sausage stops at eating it.
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May 15, 2018 20:04
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If anyone in the thread is in the continental US wants culinary rue, I will cut and dry some for ya.
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May 15, 2018 23:17
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You all might enjoy this blog by food historian Ivan Day: http://foodhistorjottings.blogspot.nl/ I haven't read it recently and he doesn't seem to do many updates anymore, but I remember lots of cool stuff being there.
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May 16, 2018 17:31
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:If anyone in the thread is in the continental US wants culinary rue, I will cut and dry some for ya. I'd actually be pretty interested in giving this a shot. I have PMs if you want to chat there about cost and shipping!
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May 17, 2018 15:05
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I should cook some of the Roman stuff for my girlfriend
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May 17, 2018 15:25
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