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EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013

Hi pals I picked up the Zodiac Age on PS4 today to treat myself. I still have the piggyback guide from the original PS2 release, how reliable is it nowadays? I heard treasure locations etc. are different now but is it mainly useful still?

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Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost

EmmyOk posted:

Hi pals I picked up the Zodiac Age on PS4 today to treat myself. I still have the piggyback guide from the original PS2 release, how reliable is it nowadays? I heard treasure locations etc. are different now but is it mainly useful still?

You will need to find a separate TZA guide. There are a lot of very notable differences in treasure and spell locations.

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

Fister Roboto posted:

Listicles are dumb.

Counterpoint

EmmyOk posted:

Hi pals I picked up the Zodiac Age on PS4 today to treat myself. I still have the piggyback guide from the original PS2 release, how reliable is it nowadays? I heard treasure locations etc. are different now but is it mainly useful still?

Here's this:

Golden Goat posted:

Here's the rundown on magic/techs can be found in chests only and where.

Techs
Shades of Black: Tomb of Raithwall - Cloister of Flame
Numerology: Lhusu Mines - Transitway 1
Infuse: Ogir-Yensa Sandsea - Platform 1 - East Tanks
Sight Unseeing: The Zertinan Caverns - Canopy of Clay - It's a passage that links Nam-Yensa to the Ogir Yensa.
Expose: Lhusu Mines - Site 9
Achilles: Garamscythe Waterway (Revisit) - No. 4 Cloaca Spur - Southeast segment and you need to have the water drained for it.
Bonecrusher: Henne Mines - Phase 1 Dig
Shear: Barheim Passage - The Zeviah Span
Stamp: Mosphoran Highwaste - Trail of Sky-Flung Stone & Rays of Ashen Light - Head to the far eastern side and find a weathered rock that should open up a path to the Rays area that holds the chest.
Charm: The Salikawood - Quietened Trace
Telekinesis: Cerobi Steppe - Old Elanise Road
Gil Toss: Draklor Laboratory - Room 7002 East (Floor 70)
1000 Needles: Sochen Cave Palace - Falls of Time
Revive: Paramina Rift - Spine of the Iceworm
Addle: Henne Mines - Special Charter Shaft - It's got a 10% chance for the chest to spawn. South side of the shaft and it's in the second passageway from the east side of the map. The passage isn't marked on the map.
Wither: Pharos Subterra - Abyssal - 10% chance to spawn hidden room on the north spot on the map.

Wither and Addle are good but don't go outta your way for em.

White Magic
Dispel: Tomb of Raitnwall - Royal Passage
Regen: Giza Plains (Rain) - Nomad Village
Renew: Henne Mines - Special Charter Shaft
Cleanse: Cerobi Steppe - The Terraced Bank - 20% chance to spawn chest. In the center of the room.
Dispelga: The Feywood - White Magick's Embrace
Protectga: Necrohol of Nabudis - Cloister of Distant Song
Bravery: Necrohol of Nabudis - Cloister of the Highborn
Faith: Necrohol of Nabudis - Hall of the Ivory Covenant
Shellga: Great Crystal - It is somewhere in there...
Holy: Pharos at Ridorana - Wellspring Ravel - 3rd Flight

Black Magic
Blind: Giza Plains (Dry) - Toam Hills
Poison: Dalmasca Estersands - Sand-swept Naze
Silence: Lhusu Mines - Shaft Entry
Sleep: Ogir-Yensa Sandsea - Platform 1 - East Tanks
Scathe: Lhusu Mines - Staging Area
Toxify: Barheim Passage — East-West Bypass
Blindga: Tchita Uplands — Fields of Eternity
Silencega: Nechrol of Nabudis - Cloister of the Highborn
Sleepga: Ancient City of Giruvegan — The Trimahla Water-Steps
Flare: Pharos at Ridorana — Spire Ravel - 1st Flight

Time Magic
Vanish: The Tomb of Raithwall — Royal Passage
Reflect: Ogir-Yensa Sandsea — Primary Tank Complex
Balance: Nam-Yensa Sandsea - Demesne of the Sandqueen
Haste: Eruyt Village - Fane of the Path
Countdown: Stilshrine of Miriam - Ward of Velitation
Reflectga: The Feywood — The Edge of Reason
Warp: Nabreus Deadlands — Lifeless Strand
Float: Tchita Uplands - Oliphzak Rise
Hastega: The Great Crystal - Somewhere

Green Magic
Clan Provisioner, nothing really found in chests

Arcane Magic
Death: Paramina Rift — Karydine Glacier
Ardor: Pharos at Ridorana — Spire Ravel - 2nd Flight

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal
The Master for NES FF1 was so sad, since it was a horribly buggy class that actually lost some stats going from a black belt. That said, it not having to equip weapons made it a nice mule and you could two punch Chaos with a high enough level.

Shoenin
May 29, 2013

Everynight I wake up Screaming.
(and beating the dragon)
Jesus christ the reasonings of that list some are straight up full of dumbfuckery

Help Im Alive
Nov 8, 2009

What is the most difficult FF boss anyway

I guess it's probably something from one of the MMOs?

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




If you were to rate the bosses, surely you'd take each games's whole boss sequence.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

Help Im Alive posted:

I guess it's probably something from one of the MMOs?

Eh, I feel like XI/XIV stuff is kind of in its own category considering that it needs 7+ other people to also not gently caress up alongside you.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal
Wasn't Ozma considered the hardest if you didn't complete the friendly monster side quest?

Yiazmat and Adamantoise (even pre-nerf) are probably the easiest superbosses, just super time consuming. Emerald and Ruby Weapon aren't too hard either. Penace is a pain in the rear end to get to, but can be cheesed with zanmoto.

Die Sexmonster!
Nov 30, 2005

seiferguy posted:

Wasn't Ozma considered the hardest if you didn't complete the friendly monster side quest?

It’s gotta be this, yeah. If 8 weren’t so incredibly breakable you might be able to make a case for Omega Weapon, but...

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008


Touché.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

If you don't break the game (like say, me as a stupid kid) Ultimecia is a grueling affair. After spending the whole game summoning GFs it was Squall alone who finished her, using recover every other turn and spamming limits until she blew away Aura. I'm tempted to get FF8 PC and play it "properly" but I don't remember having much fun and I don't think breaking the game in two would change that.

Similarly, if you haven't spec'd a good team Neo/Exdeath hits/is pretty hard (for an FF boss), definitely a step up in difficulty from the rest of the (non-superboss) game.

Once you get to Kefka tier it's all moot anyways, six shades of laughably easy doesn't say much.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Yeah, V and VIII are tough to gauge because those games are very breakable but a first-time player could hit issues. I agree that Ned's a large step up from anything else in that game, it's just that a lot of parties have equipped jetpacks by then.

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010



I'd argue that judging V, VII, VIII, and X's final bosses on difficulty without discounting the tons of ways you can utterly demolish them with no effort, be it hilariously busted job skill/materia combos, infinite limits, or Quick Hit/Zanmato kinda defeats the purpose of doing a ranking in the first place.

VI has broken stuff too, but Kefka is easy to the point that he's kind of a pushover even if you're underprepared and don't know the really strong setups.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I mean, other than Cloud of Darkness, if you do assume that you are breaking the game as much as possible, are any of them hard enough to make a list meaningful?

E: completely misread the above post

Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Apr 21, 2018

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!

ItBreathes posted:

I mean, other than Cloud of Darkness, if you do assume that you are breaking the game as much as possible, are any of them hard enough to make a list meaningful?

normal people dont do those things

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

Help Im Alive posted:

What is the most difficult FF boss anyway

I guess it's probably something from one of the MMOs?

You could make an argument for W2 Exdeath here. You don't have the tools you get in W3 to trivialize NED, and Exdeath has no weaknesses and technically is only vulnerable to Slow (to which he counters with Haste). He also have a massive variety of powerful attacks and spells that is hard to counter against, and even if you get to the easier second phase and use Reflect Rings to nullify his magical offense, his physicals still freaking hurt.

Even in a game as broken as FF5, it's difficult to find ways to cheese W2 Exdeath.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

Is the ff6 post game stuff any Good?

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

Is the ff6 post game stuff any Good?

Its the same quality as the other post game stuff in the franchise; its more content and thats about it.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

I'm afraid of getting burned again because I just did two menace dungeons and mother of god they're awful

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Mega64 posted:

Even in a game as broken as FF5, it's difficult to find ways to cheese W2 Exdeath.

Four Dragons.

BrightWing
Apr 27, 2012

Yes, he is quite mad.

Dr Pepper posted:

Four Dragons.

That means using Beastmaster and Beastmaster sucks :colbert:

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

I'm afraid of getting burned again because I just did two menace dungeons and mother of god they're awful

So menace dungeons are probably too 3 worst post games while FFVI’s is probably the better half of post game content.

FFV/FFV-2 are probably my favorite post games, but in those if you play normally by the time you beat the final boss you probably still have half the abilities to go so the bonus dungeons feel good because youre finally using your setups instead of just “keep doing what yoive been doing, but now with higher numbers”

Sprite141
Feb 7, 2009

I should really just
learn to stop talking.

corn in the bible posted:

normal people dont do those things

Bravely Default is basically final fantasy with some renamed stuff, so this counts.
Most of the bravely default rematch boss fights are extremely difficult, unless you use a 100% broken setup. I mean, I was using some pretty broken setups before I was fighting them, and I really had to change up what I was doing.

I loved dark knight in that game. Unleash your black banes until you have no health left, then abuse minus strike. If you die, you explode! Then I equipped the vampire come back to life ability so he'd pop up every now and then if I couldn't raise the dude myself. That ability triggered rather often for me, to be honest.

Hyper Inferno
Jun 11, 2015
I've always debated internally about what makes a boss hard. What should factor into it? Raw time battling? Time it takes to prepare for the fight? A guide used to optimize strategy? Because under certain metrics, different bosses demand different amounts of time, effort, and strategy to beat. Like for example, if a boss's difficulty is measured solely by time and decisions made in battle, nearly all FFX superbosses are trivial because of Yojimbo, but that's clearly not a good measure of their difficulty.

My contender is early Tantarian in FFIX. The boss has a strategy to have an easy time, but because of the time pressure during that segment, even if you're using a guide, there's no guarantee that you'll have the skills necessary to do it.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Difficulty, in a turn based RPG, is rarely executional. FF13 and 12 have it, and the atb games to ab extent, but dor the most part that leaves only two options for boss difficulty.

The first is pile o stats which requires the player to just cross an arbitrary threshold. The best example is Cloud of Darkness where it basically does the same thing every single turn until it dies.

The second is adding puzzle mechanics, be it specific element patterns you need to hit, real and false targets, environmental factors etc. The “best” example of this in FF is probably Yunalesca whose three phases introduce a thing your party has to manage that builds off the previous phase and requires puzzling out how to apporach it.

The higher you go on either of these the “tougher” the fight becomes but in one case you trend towards grind and on the other its a game of “guess what I the dev am thinking”. The demifiend from SMT digital devil saga is peak for both.

lobster22221
Jul 11, 2017

Barudak posted:

Difficulty, in a turn based RPG, is rarely executional. FF13 and 12 have it, and the atb games to ab extent, but dor the most part that leaves only two options for boss difficulty.

The first is pile o stats which requires the player to just cross an arbitrary threshold. The best example is Cloud of Darkness where it basically does the same thing every single turn until it dies.

The second is adding puzzle mechanics, be it specific element patterns you need to hit, real and false targets, environmental factors etc. The “best” example of this in FF is probably Yunalesca whose three phases introduce a thing your party has to manage that builds off the previous phase and requires puzzling out how to apporach it.

The higher you go on either of these the “tougher” the fight becomes but in one case you trend towards grind and on the other its a game of “guess what I the dev am thinking”. The demifiend from SMT digital devil saga is peak for both.

The other source, in theory, is in resource management. Getting to the end of a long dungeon while still having enough health and mana to fight the boss. This is supposed to be one of the reasons magic can be more powerful than physical attacking. This is also why ethers tend to be expensive in games that have them for sale. I guess you could call this a stat thing, but its at least more active than just having bigger numbers.

In practice there is generally a save point before the boss and magic replenishment is easy enough to come by.

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe

BrightWing posted:

That means using Beastmaster and Beastmaster sucks :colbert:

could be worse. you could have no offense whatsoever and be relying on snapping staves of light.

bloom
Feb 25, 2017

by sebmojo

Barudak posted:

The second is adding puzzle mechanics, be it specific element patterns you need to hit, real and false targets, environmental factors etc. The “best” example of this in FF is probably Yunalesca whose three phases introduce a thing your party has to manage that builds off the previous phase and requires puzzling out how to apporach it.


In my books Yunalesca is a top tier fight for the series because it has a good gimmick without requiring you to make any special preparations.

For me personally something like Penance or the tougher dark aeons are essentially impossible, but that "difficulty" comes from the fact that I'll never have the patience to grind the required stats and gear to do those fights. It's a shame that so many challenge bosses follow that path(combined having a billion hp) rather than being something you can beat by figuring out a good strategy.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Yunalesca is probably my vote as well for best overall boss in the franchise assuming we dont rate bosses on the unskippable cutscenes leading up to them.

The gimmick is something you might have seen already and is explained in tutorials loooong prior, doesn't just disable your abilities or add new ones, evovles in a predictable and telegraphed way in case you lose the first time, the boss’s ai and scripted attacks make it glaringly obvious what youre supposed to do, and raw stats dont really help. Further, if youre completely stonewalled the game has a quest in that area that lets you bypass the gimmick and thus gives you an out if you dont understand it or lack the patience to try the fight on her terms.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Barudak posted:

Yunalesca is probably my vote as well for best overall boss in the franchise assuming we dont rate bosses on the unskippable cutscenes leading up to them.

The gimmick is something you might have seen already and is explained in tutorials loooong prior, doesn't just disable your abilities or add new ones, evovles in a predictable and telegraphed way in case you lose the first time, the boss’s ai and scripted attacks make it glaringly obvious what youre supposed to do, and raw stats dont really help. Further, if youre completely stonewalled the game has a quest in that area that lets you bypass the gimmick and thus gives you an out if you dont understand it or lack the patience to try the fight on her terms.

You've definitely seen Zombie earlier because Seymour Flux does that Zombie/Full-Life combo that makes him such a pain. I't put him as a more unfair hard boss, because he and his ship are so closely in sync at the start that you just need to hurl phoenix downs until they spread enough to give someone an action in between. Also because his cleave attack does about 2500 damage, which at that point is more than the HP of half the party.]

As for Yunalesca, my only quibble is that phase 1/2 are about staying on top of status effects, and then phase 3 punishes you if you removed them. I think if I had a go at the design I would make her transition trigger Hellbiter AND Megadeath to ensure you'll survive the first one, then make Megadeth happen slightly more often so you can't just blitz her before it goes off again. Otherwise yeah, clever boss.

a crisp refreshing Moxie
May 2, 2007


Barudak posted:

Further, if youre completely stonewalled the game has a quest in that area that lets you bypass the gimmick and thus gives you an out if you dont understand it or lack the patience to try the fight on her terms.

What's this about now? I don't remember this.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

a crisp refreshing Moxie posted:

What's this about now? I don't remember this.

Its not quite her area; in the calm lands if you catch 1 of every monster in the Calm Lands for the coliseum to open up your reward is enough of an item to give any piece of armor immunity to death. It basically makes it impossible to lose to her without considerable effort.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

I'd say Barthandelus 1 is a pretty strong contender. He's definitely the first actually challenging fight in the game. Prior fights just let you coast through with COM/RAV/MED, but Bart has a soft dps check, and one that a lot of people wipe to because they see him charging up a big move and they immediately turtle up.

Also you can't overpower him by grinding, since there's a hard cap on your crystarium.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Fister Roboto posted:

I'd say Barthandelus 1 is a pretty strong contender. He's definitely the first actually challenging fight in the game. Prior fights just let you coast through with COM/RAV/MED, but Bart has a soft dps check, and one that a lot of people wipe to because they see him charging up a big move and they immediately turtle up.

Also you can't overpower him by grinding, since there's a hard cap on your crystarium.

Well, you can, but it involves accessories/weapon upgrading instead, which is way more tedious.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

ImpAtom posted:

Well, you can, but it involves accessories/weapon upgrading instead, which is way more tedious.

I felt less like it was tedious and more like it was pointless and obfuscated.

When you run ot of money or your brain breaks and you want a characters ultimate weapon, thats when its tedious.

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015


Hyper Inferno posted:

My contender is early Tantarian in FFIX. The boss has a strategy to have an easy time, but because of the time pressure during that segment, even if you're using a guide, there's no guarantee that you'll have the skills necessary to do it.

Wait there is an early Tantarian? I only ever fought it during the castle sequence.

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe
bart 1.0 wouldn't actually be a very hard fight except for ff13's complete unwillingness to explain anything to the player. it's actually one of my favorite boss fights in any final fantasy game though, it's really fun to play.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Artelier posted:

Wait there is an early Tantarian? I only ever fought it during the castle sequence.

You can fight him on Disc 2 when you're rescuing Dagger or on Disc 3 when you're also rescuing Dagger.

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Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST
Abyssal God from Etrian Odyssey 3.

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