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The Slaughter posted:I am 32... I have a high GPA from Riddle, magna cum laude, Dean's list a bunch of times, with a double minor in aviation safety and management... but I attended 5 different colleges and it took me like 7-8 years as there were long gaps in college. Volunteer at a local food bank, and for the NGPA both at the events and for the airline advocacy committee. Vice chair of Central Air Safety for my airline, chair of the pairing/scheduling committee, ASAP committee, CIRP committee. Spend plenty of my days off talking to crewmembers, the FAA, chief pilots, and our company director of flight standards as well as the safety chair with regards to all the things that get screwed up. 3100TT/300TPIC. I was surprised to get the call, but then again there were a few FOs there, and a guy that had just upgraded to captain like the week prior from my airline. Wasn't sure why I got the call, but I networked like crazy and I've worked hard. My resume has a lot of previous customer service jobs on it. Regardless of the product, all my friends who have gotten hired at United (a lot of which are women, or minorities like myself) say the same thing: they feel comfortable and included. Delta feels like it lacks humanity to a lot of people but especially to someone who's not Standard White and affluent or former military. gently caress them for judging us for stupid things such as what they consider a subpar education. Guess what, I grew up in poverty and had to work through a recession in my 20's, it was either pay for a cheap flight school or quit the workforce and go to college, to their lovely elitist corporate culture I may seem like a substandard candidate but for my family and my community I'm a source of pride. I'm not gonna let a bunch of privileged pricks make me feel like I'm not good enough. This industry has been incredibly alienating a lot of the times and if I switch jobs again my desire now is to find a destination airline where I will feel welcome. Animal fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 07:59
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Slaughter, I question a lot of their hires. I've seen them hire some absolute idiots and turn down awesome well qualified Check Pilots.Animal posted:Regardless of the product, all my friends who have gotten hired at U (a lot of which are women, or minorities like myself) say the same thing: they feel comfortable and included. D feels like it lacks humanity to a lot of people but especially to someone who's not Standard White and affluent or former military. gently caress them for judging us for stupid things such as what they consider a subpar education. Guess what, I grew up in poverty and had to work through a recession in my 20's, it was either pay for a cheap flight school or quit the workforce and go to college, to their lovely elitist corporate culture I may seem like a substandard candidate but for my family and my community I'm a source of pride. I'm not gonna let a bunch of privileged pricks make me feel like I'm not good enough. This industry has been incredibly alienating a lot of the times and if I switch jobs again my desire now is to find a destination airline where I will feel welcome. Exactly. I can't stand their superiority complex. Talking to a widget guy while at the regionals I explained that I didn't have a 4 year because I was too poor and too busy at 21 running a $21 million/year business to pay my bills. His response? "Why don't you go to college now?".... as a regional FO with a kid making $28k/y with 12 days off a month. Yeah, ok buddy. Don't get me wrong there are some cool pilots at every company (and I've met some at Big Red), but feeling relaxed and part of the company was important in choosing my current company and the reason I didn't apply to widget world. AWSEFT fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 14:27
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E: I just spent like 3 paragraphs ranting about degrees and old people telling me to get one. I’ve eaten, relaxed and decided to remove it.
Rolo fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 15:09
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Who knew wearing the hat was so important?
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Apr 17, 2018 18:29
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It's amazing the disparity between the two levels of flying: Regional: "You have a pulse and meet mins? C'mon down!...wait, you don't have your multi time? Go find a twin, we'll pay for it." Mainline: The Slaughter posted:I am 32... I have a high GPA from Riddle, magna cum laude, Dean's list a bunch of times, with a double minor in aviation safety and management... but I attended 5 different colleges and it took me like 7-8 years as there were long gaps in college. Volunteer at a local food bank, and for the NGPA both at the events and for the airline advocacy committee. Vice chair of Central Air Safety for my airline, chair of the pairing/scheduling committee, ASAP committee, CIRP committee. Spend plenty of my days off talking to crewmembers, the FAA, chief pilots, and our company director of flight standards as well as the safety chair with regards to all the things that get screwed up. 3100TT/300TPIC. I was surprised to get the call, but then again there were a few FOs there, and a guy that had just upgraded to captain like the week prior from my airline. Wasn't sure why I got the call, but I networked like crazy and I've worked hard. My resume has a lot of previous customer service jobs on it. "...sorry, you're not enough." 
CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 18:49
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Back in 2008 during the recession, regionals were snooty as hell too. They were even checking apolicant’s credit scores. The majors will be desperate too, unless there is an Age 67 bandaid and a huge horde of high schoolers decide to become pilots in the next 5 years.
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Apr 17, 2018 19:29
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You'll be randomly turned down for jobs at companies in every industry. The smarter large companies will outright say "just try again in a year". Large companies know they're turning away a lot of qualified people, they just hope that they're not letting any unqualified people slip through.
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Apr 17, 2018 19:50
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Looks like uncontained engine failure on a southwest and a women died after being partially sucked out the window http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12034594 https://twitter.com/joeasaprap/status/986277894279311360
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Apr 17, 2018 20:32
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Anyone ever dealt with Bose A20 repair? Supposedly they're emailing me a pre paid UPS to ship it to their repair facilities in the next 24 hours. It's got a large tone in the background, and finally had enough when ATC called me out on it. I have the recording from liveatc where it can be heard, but I don't think Bose cared. xaarman fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 21:40
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Beccara posted:Looks like uncontained engine failure on a southwest and a women died after being partially sucked out the window Oh drat. xaarman posted:Anyone ever dealt with Bose A20 repair? Supposedly they're emailing me a pre paid UPS to ship it to their repair facilities in the next 24 hours. I’ve heard really good things from a handful of people about their customer service. Do let us know how it goes though, I’m going to send my 4 year old A20 in because my buddy got a brand new one and the dongle/ANR/bluetooth are all a lot better than mine.
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Apr 17, 2018 23:13
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didn't WN have this same exact thing happen just like 2 years ago
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Apr 17, 2018 23:35
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Speaking as someone with a 4-year university degree, it does not help me fly the plane in the least, but I suppose if we had a forced approach it could be burned for heat and warmth. I can only assume the airlines are requiring that to make sure they hire the "right sort" because god knows it has no influence on ability, intelligence, or any other quality actually required by the job (source: 80% of the people I met in university).
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Apr 18, 2018 00:02
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Beccara posted:Looks like uncontained engine failure on a southwest and a women died after being partially sucked out the window Allegiant breathes a collective sigh of relief.
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Apr 18, 2018 00:25
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Research suggests that pilots with 4 year degrees in an aviation field perform better in ab initio training in the regional environment (Smith, NewMyer, Bjerke, Niemczyk, & Hamilton, 2010). The 2010 Pilot Source Study, commissioned to research the success of pilots in initial training for Part 121 operations, analyzed the training performance of 2,156 new-hire pilots in the years 2005-2009. Six regional airlines provided data that was mined from human resource and pilot training files. Five university researchers independently analyzed the data and integrated their results. The study expressed success in terms of fewer extra training events and fewer non-completions in regional airline training. Statistically, the best performing pilots were those who had flight instructor certificates, graduated from collegiate accredited flight programs, received advanced (post-Private) pilot training in college, graduated with collegiate aviation degrees (any aviation discipline), and had between 500 and 1,000 preemployment flight hours. Having a college degree (Associate or Bachelor’s) did not produce a difference in the number of extra training events during initial training with a regional airline; nor did it produce a significant relationship with the number of non-completions in initial training. However, if the college degree was an aviation degree (any aviation discipline), then the relationship changed. Having an aviation degree produced fewer extra training events and comparatively fewer non-completions in initial training. More significantly, if pilots earned their college degree in an AABI Accredited Flight Program, they had fewer extra training events and fewer noncompletions in initial training.
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Apr 18, 2018 01:39
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PT6A posted:Speaking as someone with a 4-year university degree, it does not help me fly the plane in the least, but I suppose if we had a forced approach it could be burned for heat and warmth. Thats kind of my point. I was running a multimillion dollar a year business but I'm not intelligent enough to fly your computer because I didn't sit in a classroom. Meanwhile, like you're alluding to, my peers in college were partying and getting drunk barely making it to class. Definitely makes them more qualified than me. Edit to add to Apollo: I've never failed an airline checking event or written exam.
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Apr 18, 2018 01:41
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I don’t think Apollo is contradicting our point, he’s just quoting HR data. Useless data, but data that he is using to be sardonic, as he would never presume to be a better pilot than a bunch of guys who survived nightly international single pilot IFR jobs in weather on complex turboprop multi-engine aircraft, just because of his academic background. Data that may be valid for a regional airline recruiter who’s trying to sift through low experience pilots in 2010. For a major airline in 2018, though... Are you telling me that this international widebody airline captain and check airman with zero incidents or pink slips who is a more experienced aviator than 75% of your own pilots, is not good enough, because he didn’t complete a degree in four years? Yet that dude who drank his way through Embry Riddle and pressed the Master Caution button on a CRJ for a living for four years is a prime candidate? gently caress off. Airline recruitment departments are run by idiots who need to justify their jobs by turning good candidates away because they think they know better. The moment they can’t fill a single class and are in danger of losing their own jobs because the airline has to park airplanes, then magically the people they were turning away become great candidates that we should feel proud to welcome into our pilot group.
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Apr 18, 2018 02:06
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Completely agree animal. HR at all my different jobs couldn’t care less what my degree was in and if I had to do it again I’d get a degree in underwater basket weaving. 6 years of flying canceled checks was the best aviation education I or anyone else could ever get. I took a 3 credit class on aviation weather that basically amounted to me learning how to read a metar. gently caress out of here with that poo poo.
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Apr 18, 2018 02:53
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I feel like I'm learning a lot of poo poo I didn't know from doing my instructor rating. It's entirely possible it may be stuff I should've known already, but either way I'm a better pilot than I was before I started 
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Apr 18, 2018 02:58
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PT6A posted:I feel like I'm learning a lot of poo poo I didn't know from doing my instructor rating. It's entirely possible it may be stuff I should've known already, but either way I'm a better pilot than I was before I started Being an instructor is great for filling in the cracks of what you thought you had down pat. It’s a wonderful experience for your personal development.
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Apr 18, 2018 04:13
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It's also great background for moving into a multi-crew airplane. Since I upgraded to captain, I've found myself slipping back into "instructor mode" pretty frequently to try and help new-hires get up to speed on the eccentricities of the Q400. As an added bonus, since the Q doesn't have counter-rotating props, I also find myself saying "right rudder, right rudder" a fair bit, which is something I never expected to do in the airline world.
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Apr 18, 2018 08:12
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Arson Daily posted:Completely agree animal. HR at all my different jobs couldn’t care less what my degree was in and if I had to do it again I’d get a degree in underwater basket weaving. 6 years of flying canceled checks was the best aviation education I or anyone else could ever get. The educational background is also another element of the cluster that is the R-ATP. "You got a bachelor's degree in aviation from a school we approved? Good on you, son, here's 500 hours off!" "You got an associate's degree in aviation from a school we approved? Hmm...you're probably not as good a pilot. 250 hour discount." "You got an aviation degree, flew Part 141, but we haven't blessed the program yet? PAY YER DUUUUUUUUUES!" "You flew at a mom 'n pop Part 61 FBO as was seen to be totally acceptable until the future Senate Minority Leader pretended he knew about airplanes?  you, go get all the time, you chump.""You already have your instrument rating and have a degree from one of the schools we approved, but you didn't fly Instrument there? I'm sorry, sir or ma'am, no discount for you." ...and then you see Slaughter get turned down by the Widget in spite of having gone to The Harvard of Aviation.  e- And this post comes from somebody having seen it from both sides now (student and administrative). CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 17:18
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CBJSprague24 posted:The educational background is also another element of the cluster that is the R-ATP. I just want to know if Riddle paid in (campaign) cash, or in kind (hookers and blow) to the dear congresscritters.
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Apr 18, 2018 17:33
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Animal posted:I don’t think Apollo is contradicting our point, he’s just quoting HR data. I know, I wasn't targeting him, just pointing out how useless it was. Like you said.
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Apr 18, 2018 19:11
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MrYenko posted:I just want to know if Riddle paid in (campaign) cash, or in kind (hookers and blow) to the dear congresscritters. Probably both with as much as they charge for tuition.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:02
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Random blunt money question! What would a pilot expect to be paid to be SIC only on a part 91 Falcon 50? 1500-2000 total, 1100 turbine, ATP, this’d be his third type rating and third jet. Assume company is fair. NBAA Average?
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Apr 18, 2018 22:07
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Depends on where you live but nbaa would be where I start and go from there. I think nbaa is raw salary so it wouldn’t include bennies and retirement.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:01
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Rolo posted:Random blunt money question! Are you a member of ___ on Facebook? edit: redacted. Send me a Private Message. I think you have my email.
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Apr 19, 2018 00:36
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I do! Found an email from 2013. Technology! E: Message sent. Pretty sure that’s you! Rolo fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Apr 19, 2018 |
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Apr 19, 2018 00:39
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Rolo posted:I do! Found an email from 2013. Technology! It is. Replied.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:55
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Rolo posted:Random blunt money question! North Florida? $85,000-105,000 these days - plus bennies. Don't sign a contract. If you have to sign a contract make sure it's only for a year, pro-rated, and there's a specific performance clause in it (they have to pay out the rest of your year unless fired for good cause).
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Apr 19, 2018 02:51
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AWSEFT posted:Thats kind of my point. I was running a multimillion dollar a year business but I'm not intelligent enough to fly your computer because I didn't sit in a classroom. Meanwhile, like you're alluding to, my peers in college were partying and getting drunk barely making it to class. Definitely makes them more qualified than me. Yeah except in my case I was working full time too while I got the degree and still had academic success. Yet I could tell widget was just seething that I got my degree online and had me explain why I would do such a thing (I was flying all over and across the country and couldn't attend classes in person in Seattle...)
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Apr 19, 2018 03:49
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ausgezeichnet posted:North Florida? $85,000-105,000 these days - plus bennies. Don't sign a contract. If you have to sign a contract make sure it's only for a year, pro-rated, and there's a specific performance clause in it (they have to pay out the rest of your year unless fired for good cause). Carolinas, an expensive part. Nice thing is that it’s an upgrade in house, no contract, bennies guaranteed but question mark on pay so far. Should be having that discussion soon and I want to get as many points of data as possible, including strangers on Something Awful. I’ve also been with the company 2 years and have gotten a total raise of 3% even though the cost of living here has lapped that number several times over.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:58
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Rolo posted:Carolinas, an expensive part. Nice thing is that it’s an upgrade in house, no contract, bennies guaranteed but question mark on pay so far. Should be having that discussion soon and I want to get as many points of data as possible, including strangers on Something Awful. I’ve also been with the company 2 years and have gotten a total raise of 3% even though the cost of living here has lapped that number several times over. My experience has been that - with extremely rare exceptions - the only way to get salaries up more than 3-5% annually is for pilots to leave. I asked for a review at my job back in late 2016 and got the standard 3%. I left a few months later for a CAM gig at Solairus which turned out to be a poo poo-show for a variety of reasons. I was heavily recruited to come back to the old gig and negotiated a 25% hike over my previous salary and have been a much more happy camper as a result. You have quality time relative to your total, so I wouldn't pigeonhole yourself as simply a copilot in the interview. Get the idea across that you are a Captain in training and that you expect to be considered for a type and a PIC position in a reasonable amount of time (12-18 months). This would help you get maximum bucks in salary up front as they can't just consider you a seat-filler. We're looking at really hot times in corporate aviation in the next ten years, since the airlines are draining the swamp of any qualified people willing to make the leap. This is going to make for some really exciting negotiating leverage at annual review time, but also tend to leave a lot of poo poo heads and damaged aviators with seniority at corporate gigs. Unless you are totally dead-set against an airline career that's what I'd be aiming toward. If you're in your early 30's you can't beat the compensation and quality of life that you could have in a 30-year airline career. I'm too loving old to go back at this point, though. Keep your ear to the ground about other work and be willing to up the gauge of aircraft you're flying. Once you get into the big Gulfstreams (G4 and larger) or Falcons (2000's and up) you get to the point where the pay jumps pretty dramatically and you can get meaningful contract work if you can take it on. Having a ton of 737 time got me a corporate gig in a BBJ, which led to a G4 type and eventually a 7X type where I've been for the past eight years. If you take the job (I assume it's a 50EX), have fun. The 50 is a great aircraft and they probably aren't going to be around for a lot longer unless there's a reasonable upgrade path for ADS-B and PBN. Remember, too, that a DA50 type qualifies you for the classic 900's.
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Apr 19, 2018 15:28
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The Slaughter posted:Yeah except in my case I was working full time too while I got the degree and still had academic success. Yet I could tell widget was just seething that I got my degree online and had me explain why I would do such a thing (I was flying all over and across the country and couldn't attend classes in person in Seattle...) They dinged you for doing Embry-Riddle Worldwide? If anything, they should have given you bonus points for doing it that way. It was cheaper and you couldn't beat the 9-week terms. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Apr 20, 2018 |
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Apr 20, 2018 05:00
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I mean, you never really know. I can only go based off of how the interview went. They spend about 50 minutes with your app and logbooks before they bring you in and come up with a list of questions they want to ask you. Mine were centered around why I got my GED at 16 and went to an art college (a fair question that I somewhat expected), how I then came around to aviation, how I ended up at Riddle and why I did it online, etc. They were smiling and nodding and winking throughout the panel interview so I thought I was giving them satisfactory answers, but I did feel like maybe I stumbled a little bit when they were asking about the online thing - I explained how I could work ahead a week and with my fulltime 8 on 6 off job, I'd work, then spend my off days getting a week ahead. They were like "but you never attended a Riddle class in person?" .. in hindsight it would have been a great time to point out I did plenty of in-person classes for my associates degree, but whatever. They asked questions about my background for 30 min or so, and then about 30 minutes of "tell me about a time/ what would you do" where I felt like the questions were very softball and I had very well prepared answers. But I felt like it got most negative when talking about my college background/why I left HS 2 years early and it seemed like they didn't like that I had only been getting paid to fly for 6 years, as though somehow I might just change my mind about something I've devoted the last 10 years of my life to and actually did want to pursue since I was a kid. They also had me change one question on my app about whether any previous employers had ever disciplined me with a written warning or "letter of discipline". I got too honest and talked about a verbal warning I had for "insubordination", for questioning some safety decisions at Transpac... 5 weeks before my friend died in a crash there. Talked about how that was one reason I am so involved in safety now and passionate about aviation safety, but that is the only other negative that stands out and I've heard widget hates when you red ink something on your app. Thing is, they go over that question and they very much expanded it from what's on the addendum, and also, I did the right thing. I wasn't trying to conceal anything on the app, that question only asks about written warnings or letters of discipline, but when they explain it there, they wanted to know about anything verbal... a combination of that, the Riddle thing, and them not liking my background is why I didn't get it, I am reasonably certain. The 'what would you do' part was very simple questions such as how do you set the tone on a trip, what would you do if there's a thunderstorm within 3nm of the field and the FOM says you can't take off, okay southwest is taking off and passengers are mad etc... I did not struggle with those questions at all.
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Apr 20, 2018 08:30
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Hmmm 787 AKL->NRT less than an hour in returning to AKL
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Apr 21, 2018 01:54
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The Slaughter posted:I mean, you never really know. I can only go based off of how the interview went. They spend about 50 minutes with your app and logbooks before they bring you in and come up with a list of questions they want to ask you. Mine were centered around why I got my GED at 16 and went to an art college (a fair question that I somewhat expected), how I then came around to aviation, how I ended up at Riddle and why I did it online, etc. They were smiling and nodding and winking throughout the panel interview so I thought I was giving them satisfactory answers, but I did feel like maybe I stumbled a little bit when they were asking about the online thing - I explained how I could work ahead a week and with my fulltime 8 on 6 off job, I'd work, then spend my off days getting a week ahead. They were like "but you never attended a Riddle class in person?" .. in hindsight it would have been a great time to point out I did plenty of in-person classes for my associates degree, but whatever. They asked questions about my background for 30 min or so, and then about 30 minutes of "tell me about a time/ what would you do" where I felt like the questions were very softball and I had very well prepared answers. But I felt like it got most negative when talking about my college background/why I left HS 2 years early and it seemed like they didn't like that I had only been getting paid to fly for 6 years, as though somehow I might just change my mind about something I've devoted the last 10 years of my life to and actually did want to pursue since I was a kid. They also had me change one question on my app about whether any previous employers had ever disciplined me with a written warning or "letter of discipline". I got too honest and talked about a verbal warning I had for "insubordination", for questioning some safety decisions at Transpac... 5 weeks before my friend died in a crash there. Talked about how that was one reason I am so involved in safety now and passionate about aviation safety, but that is the only other negative that stands out and I've heard widget hates when you red ink something on your app. Thing is, they go over that question and they very much expanded it from what's on the addendum, and also, I did the right thing. I wasn't trying to conceal anything on the app, that question only asks about written warnings or letters of discipline, but when they explain it there, they wanted to know about anything verbal... a combination of that, the Riddle thing, and them not liking my background is why I didn't get it, I am reasonably certain. The 'what would you do' part was very simple questions such as how do you set the tone on a trip, what would you do if there's a thunderstorm within 3nm of the field and the FOM says you can't take off, okay southwest is taking off and passengers are mad etc... I did not struggle with those questions at all. I've had a few military friends interview there and get turned down/walk away with a bad taste in their mouth.... one in particular is now flying for a giant purple cargo outfit headquartered in Memphis. She says getting turned down by DAL, while she not happy at the time, was the best thing to happen to her. I am certain you'll have similar results in the future.
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Apr 21, 2018 03:45
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It looks like I get to ferry a Q400 from PDX to YAM on Monday, then do a quadruple "deadhead" (YAM-YYZ-YVR-PDX-home) Tuesday, with a "first officer" who's been at the airline since 1989, so apparently the airline gods decided I needed more confusion in my life.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:12
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I can't wait til I more or less get to stop hearing "Q400" at work tbqh
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Apr 23, 2018 23:45
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xaarman posted:I've had a few military friends interview there and get turned down/walk away with a bad taste in their mouth.... one in particular is now flying for a giant purple cargo outfit headquartered in Memphis. She says getting turned down by DAL, while she not happy at the time, was the best thing to happen to her. I am certain you'll have similar results in the future. Yeah. I'm hoping for the same outcome, honestly, or the New And Improved Continental. But numbers are numbers and it's probably gonna take me some time, so that's just something I have to accept. It's just hard when you feel soooo close to something and not playing this dumb game anymore, but it is what it is. A few weeks later with some perspective, I'd still be in a good spot if I got hired in 11 (or more realistically, 13-14 months or so) by the widget. It sucks it'd be at 6% lower seniority for the rest of my career more than likely, but it still would be a meteoric seniority rise. Things are looking good to become a LCA in June/July potentially and that will open doors at Big Memphis Purple and New and Improved Continental, hopefully one of those will work out.
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Apr 24, 2018 08:49
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