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Alpha Mayo posted:Is it worth paying extra for X470 boards? Plan on upgrading my i5 2500K to Ryzen 2700X next month but X470 is pretty pricey (looks like they start around $180 at Microcenter). Do you or someone you know have a first gen Ryzen around anywhere to flash an old board to the latest firmware?
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Apr 21, 2018 21:10
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Alpha Mayo posted:Is it worth paying extra for X470 boards? Only if you need features not available on older boards. As long as it has an up to date BIOS a B350 board should be fine if it otherwise meets your requirements.
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Apr 21, 2018 21:16
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What is StoreMI? Is that kind of like Intel SRT (SSD/RAM caching for HDD)? I use PrimoCache so I am kind of interested in that technology, though PrimoCache does it pretty well. I thought X470 supported higher clockrates with XFR2 or something, did that turn out to be true? I also just found out B450 is due soon so maybe that will be out by the time I upgrade. I don't have any old Ryzen CPUs for flashing the BIOS. That might be an obstacle for me with B350.
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Apr 21, 2018 21:45
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XFR2 is built into the chip. All X370 has is Precision Boost Overdrive, which is just a Multi Core Enhancement style “auto OC” feature for running outside of spec. It’s entirely unnecessary.
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Apr 21, 2018 22:24
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StoreMI Is just fakeraid storage tiering, yeah.
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Apr 21, 2018 22:40
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The 16 phase VRM X470 boards are probably good for more than XFR2 is
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Apr 21, 2018 22:47
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Kazinsal posted:StoreMI Is just fakeraid storage tiering, yeah. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw that tech show up in the next console generation, with a tiny SSD as cache. If it works without breaking stuff it's not bad for the low end.
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Apr 21, 2018 22:48
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sauer kraut posted:Wouldn't be surprised if we saw that tech show up in the next console generation, with a tiny SSD as cache. With the PS4 at least, I thought switching to SSD didn’t make much difference in game startup or performance (10% or so on startup, IIRC). Do you expect architectural changes in the next generation to change how I/O speed affects system performance?
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Apr 21, 2018 22:52
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Subjunctive posted:With the PS4 at least, I thought switching to SSD didn’t make much difference in game startup or performance (10% or so on startup, IIRC). Do you expect architectural changes in the next generation to change how I/O speed affects system performance? The base PS4 only had a SATA2 interface so SSDs were mostly wasted on it, but the PS4 Pro upgraded the interface to SATA3 and benefits a lot more.  https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Storage/PS4-Pro-SSD-Upgrade-Does-SATA-III-Make-Difference/Testing-Methodology-Results
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Apr 21, 2018 23:05
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The base PS4 only having SATA2 support despite coming out many years after SATA3 was standard is weird, but I guess it's totally in line with the PS3 fuckery they did where hard drive speed was limited to a very low rate due to running it all through a hardware encryption chip that couldn't do more than ~90 megabit per second reads.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:22
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Sony loves doing weird poo poo with their hardware. Fun fact: the HDMI output on the base PS4s GPU isn't connected to anything, instead they run the DisplayPort output to an external DisplayPort->HDMI encoder chip. For... reasons?
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Apr 21, 2018 23:36
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repiv posted:Sony loves doing weird poo poo with their hardware. probably they support higher version / specific HDMI features that way. like how they added HDR to existing consoles via firmware update, while MS had to put out new boxes.
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Apr 22, 2018 00:11
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Craptacular! posted:Do you or someone you know have a first gen Ryzen around anywhere to flash an old board to the latest firmware? Alpha Mayo posted:I don't have any old Ryzen CPUs for flashing the BIOS. That might be an obstacle for me with B350. AMD will send you a free loaner "boot kit", which is a very old/weak Bristol Ridge APU that is supported on all the firmware revisions. So even this isn't a hard roadblock, it'll just take an extra week to ship to you. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 01:27
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Still think AMD needs some SKUs below 99$. Like, loving firesale the Bristol Ridge poo poo AMD, or get more Raven Ridge SKUs out. A 4C/4T, 6CU part and 4C/4T, 4CU part for 79$ and 59$ respectively, heck even the A12-9800 is worth it if it's only 50$.
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Apr 22, 2018 01:32
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I think after Kabini Sempys turned out to be totally unnecessary, they are hesitant to dive back into uber cheap CPU designs.
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Apr 22, 2018 02:04
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Craptacular! posted:I think after Kabini Sempys turned out to be totally unnecessary, they are hesitant to dive back into uber cheap CPU designs. I am biased, I had endless love for AM1 for building insanely cheap computers, but I don't think they need to go that low, just Intel has a totally untouched market with the Pentiums and Celerons, I just don't see the reason not to compete there.
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Apr 22, 2018 02:12
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Alpha Mayo posted:Is it worth paying extra for X470 boards? Plan on upgrading my i5 2500K to Ryzen 2700X next month but X470 is pretty pricey (looks like they start around $180 at Microcenter). Doesn't look like it - I'm waiting for a consensus on memory speeds for them both, but otherwise no.
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Apr 22, 2018 03:42
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The only wildcard IMO is whether XFR2 is still maxed out on the lesser VRMs of the B-boards.
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Apr 22, 2018 04:10
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Alpha Mayo posted:Is it worth paying extra for X470 boards? Plan on upgrading my i5 2500K to Ryzen 2700X next month but X470 is pretty pricey (looks like they start around $180 at Microcenter). X370 vs X470 chipset differences
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Apr 22, 2018 05:03
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Is there any chance of getting X470 boards with thunderbolt support? It's basically the only thing stopping me from getting a 2700x, and I know X399 boards have thunderbolt so it's not impossible on the AMD side. The final comparison I'd love to see is the highest end, 8700K@5.2 with 4000MHz+ RAM vs 2700x@4.4GHz with 3600MHz+ (whatever the max that is 24/7 possible) in CPU bound scenarios like open world games and huge WoW instances.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:26
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BurritoJustice posted:Is there any chance of getting X470 boards with thunderbolt support? It's basically the only thing stopping me from getting a 2700x, and I know X399 boards have thunderbolt so it's not impossible on the AMD side. Effectively, reviewers are testing maxed-out 2700Xs against stock 8700Ks. XFR2 pretty much extracts all the overclocking headroom right out of the box... which is good for lazy users who wouldn't otherwise bother with fiddling in the BIOS, but there is easily another 15-20% there on 8700Ks even above MCE speeds. Games still do care about clockrates, even if Ryzen has caught up on latency/etc. It's like GPU Boost 3.0 on the 1070... it sucked up all the OC headroom, which looked really good against a reference 980 Ti that wasn't bothering to use its 30% OC headroom.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:30
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Palladium posted:The only wildcard IMO is whether XFR2 is still maxed out on the lesser VRMs of the B-boards. or more likely, whether they'll be happy doing so long-term. as buildzoid observes about MSI's kinda crappy power components, they absolutely can deliver 200w sustained -- they just put out a lot of waste heat doing so because MSI tends to use inefficient components. and then that heat puts stress on the vrms and caps around them and kills stuff early. if pairing a B450 with a 2700X make sure you get a higher-quality one, not a cheapo. (or just get a 370, I bet a lot of the ones in the chain at places like newegg that move stock will work OTB) Paul MaudDib posted:Effectively, reviewers are testing maxed-out 2700Xs against stock 8700Ks. much as I'd like to disagree with PMD, if all you care about is video game performance and you're planning to spend 8700K money either way, the 8700K is at least as good at stock speed. then it has OC space above that. I doubt video games are going to care about 6 vs 8 cores soon enough for that to matter.
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Apr 22, 2018 06:11
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About StoreMI, Wendell at Level1Techs made a video about how it differs from normal SSD cache stuff. He sounds quite enthusiastic about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbl2dYgjMQ4 Drakhoran fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 10:22
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Has AMD made any statements about their eventual Zen2 (Ryzen 3rd-gen) being compatible with X470? I am actually leaning towards X470 right now just for the better power delivery alone, and with the Microcenter $50 bundle discount, $130 is typically what I spend on a mobo anyway. But if X470 is Zen2-compatible, then I'd rather go for a 2600X now and put that $100 towards a new CPU 2 years down the line, I am usually a "buy $200 now, upgrade with $200 in 2 years" rather than "$400 now" kind of guy.
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Apr 22, 2018 10:40
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Alpha Mayo posted:Has AMD made any statements about their eventual Zen2 (Ryzen 3rd-gen) being compatible with X470? AMD has said their goal is that all AM4 processors will work in all AM4 sockets, and that AM4 will be in use until 2020 and Zen 3 (goals are not guarantees, but so far so good)
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Apr 22, 2018 10:55
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That makes my CPU choice harder. If I go with 2700X I can literally double my cores and quadruple my threads from 2500K. I mean I'd probably be happy with 2600X but the doubling aspect just sounds really cool. I've never bought a CPU that cost more than $200, before the 2500K my favorite CPU was the E2160 because that poo poo did a 50% overclock and was amazing value for its time too. I am an extreme cheapass and always like those best-value components.
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Apr 22, 2018 11:07
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I wouldn’t bet on Asus etc actually releasing BIOS updates for boards after two generations per platform, for the same “what have you done for me lately” reasons that Android manufacturers stop supporting OS releases at an early point. But I would bet $5 on X470 supporting Zen2
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Apr 22, 2018 11:11
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I'm curious how well a 2700X can undervolt at let's say 4GHz because 150W stock is too much for me but I'm sure I won't be able to find out when everyone is gonna YOLO their chips because OCing street creds
Palladium fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 11:37
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Drakhoran posted:About StoreMI, Wendell at Level1Techs made a video about how it differs from normal SSD cache stuff. He sounds quite enthusiastic about it: Everyone with a Zen CPU can get that software at a great price right now: http://www.enmotus.com/amd 20 bucks for the version that is bundled and 60 for a version that allows 1tb fast tier storage.
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Apr 22, 2018 12:03
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Craptacular! posted:I wouldn’t bet on Asus etc actually releasing BIOS updates for boards after two generations per platform, for the same “what have you done for me lately” reasons that Android manufacturers stop supporting OS releases at an early point. But I would bet $5 on X470 supporting Zen2 could be, but I figure the competition aspect will keep them more honest. if one guy doesn't and the other does, the people with boards that aren't getting updates will be mad. phone makers get away with it because most people have zero idea what is in their phone Palladium posted:I'm curious how well a 2700X can undervolt at let's say 4GHz because 150W stock is too much for me but I'm sure I won't be able to find out when everyone is gonna YOLO their chips because OCing street creds Ryzen 1 was pretty fantastic at maintaining performance while underclocked. I think it was the previous thread but there were some results of testing that. (That was one of the things that tilted me towards buying one.) AMD's GPU drivers have some really nice power management abilities, including the ability to simply set lower targets for the power management system. Drag the slider to -25% power and tell the chip figure it out for itself. Would be cool if they could add that into Ryzen Master.
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Apr 22, 2018 12:54
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Palladium posted:I'm curious how well a 2700X can undervolt at let's say 4GHz because 150W stock is too much for me but I'm sure I won't be able to find out when everyone is gonna YOLO their chips because OCing street creds Gamers Nexus posted:To this end, we found that, at a given frequency of 4.0GHz, our R7 2700X held stable at 1.175V input at LLC level 4, which equated to 1.162V VCore at SVI2 TFN. The result was stability in Blender and Prime95 with torturous FFTs, while measuring at about 129W power consumption in Blender. For this same test, our 1700 at 4.0GHz required a 1.425V input at LLC level 5, yielding a 1.425VCore, a 201W power draw – so 70W higher – and pushed thermals to 79 degrees Tdie. That’s up from 57.8 degrees Tdie at the same ambient.
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Apr 22, 2018 13:05
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Palladium posted:I'm curious how well a 2700X can undervolt at let's say 4GHz because 150W stock is too much for me but I'm sure I won't be able to find out when everyone is gonna YOLO their chips because OCing street creds Gamersnexus has found that Ryzen 2 undervolts VERY well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A2yatfyLoo  https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3287-amd-r7-2700-and-2700x-review-game-streaming-cpu-benchmarks-memory
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Apr 22, 2018 13:37
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Niiiice, one less obstacle to persuade my friend out of his 2500K.
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Apr 22, 2018 13:39
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I really, REALLY hope that at least one of the new Ryzen ThinkPads will have dual channel memory configs available.
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Apr 22, 2018 15:01
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This StoreMI stuff sounds interesting in regards to getting a bit more from SATA SSDs. Some "cheap" 64GB or 128GB Optane module as fast tier to a large SATA SSD. Optane is way faster at low/single threaded random 4K.
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Apr 22, 2018 15:39
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I wonder if the power floor is as low as the 1700's 35w 3.0ghz. I figure you can't get much lower than that due to memory controller/etc but you can probably get a couple hundred more mhz out of the same 35w if it does undervolt that well.
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Apr 22, 2018 15:58
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Hm, I guess there is a reason for not clocking higher. Apparently die sizes are exactly the same, which indicates Pinnacle only gets optical improvements, it's not actually using improved design libraries probably for drop in compatibility for TR and EPYC; I can see Pinnacle EPYCs being very in demand. Might mean Raven Ridge will hit higher clocks as well since it'll never be an MCM design and therefore doesn't have to be concerned about it. Lul that it's 2018 though and now, finally GloFo has a reasonable 14nm design. Maybe this'll fix the Polaris and Vega power issues for the refresh this year, like Polaris 10 @ 1450-1550Mhz @ 1.1v might consume 130W instead of 185-205W. Holy poo poo if GloFo has been that much of an Albatross.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:29
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Gamersnexus has found that Ryzen 2 undervolts VERY well. This bodes extremely well for the next consoles in 2-3 years too.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:01
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Paul MaudDib posted:It's like GPU Boost 3.0 on the 1070... it sucked up all the OC headroom, which looked really good against a reference 980 Ti that wasn't bothering to use its 30% OC headroom. My 1070's RAM is stable for compute and everything at +580, it's good enough for gaming in most games at +820ish.
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Apr 22, 2018 21:31
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Stanley Pain posted:I really, REALLY hope that at least one of the new Ryzen ThinkPads will have dual channel memory configs available. The E485 and E585 were just listed - I haven't looked into the older ones they're based off of to see if they have an open DIM.
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