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I recently picked up FFXIII on a Steam sale and have been only struggling a teensy bit. I had heard that the tutorials go on forever, but I never knew it glosses over what sounds like a key, central mechanic. BrightWing posted:The free atb refill every other gauge feels so natural to use that I'm shocked the game never brings attention to it. This is the first I’m hearing about this.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:18
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I've always been a bit weary about that. Since the animation for switching takes time anyway it doesn't feel like you're going much faster.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:32
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i am tim! posted:I recently picked up FFXIII on a Steam sale and have been only struggling a teensy bit. I had heard that the tutorials go on forever, but I never knew it glosses over what sounds like a key, central mechanic. Basically everytime you let ATB refresh naturally you can Paradigm Shift to get a full bar for free.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:34
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Kingtheninja posted:What's a good party level for the end of lV? I'm just starting the giant robot dungeon and I think my group is mid 40s. That’s a little high for Giant but the final dungeon is an infamous difficulty spike for IV- think back to how much harder Tower if Zot was then anything that came before it and it’s about the same. So you probably won’t mind those levels starting off the finale. The usual level I find for a normal play through is high 40s to low/mid 50s for the last boss, depending on how many of the bonus dungeons and endgame equips I bother do deal with.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:52
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WaltherFeng posted:Basically everytime you let ATB refresh naturally you can Paradigm Shift to get a full bar for free. It's been forever since I've played 13 so don't take this to heart, but i wanna say every 2 times you let the atb fill normally you can Shift after using up that second refill and you'll automatically have full atb IB the new paradigm for the whole party. Speedruns abuse this with multiple COM stack paradigms to stack damage. Also if you manual enter commands, you can press down then left i want to say and it will change to let you just repeat your last manual entry.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:54
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Momomo posted:I've always been a bit weary about that. Since the animation for switching takes time anyway it doesn't feel like you're going much faster. Only the first time in the fight, where time pauses, after that they just do a quick wiggle and move on their merry way. that mandatory paradigm shift cutscene every time you switch for the first time in a battle was a terrrrrrrrrible idea. i am tim! posted:I recently picked up FFXIII on a Steam sale and have been only struggling a teensy bit. I had heard that the tutorials go on forever, but I never knew it glosses over what sounds like a key, central mechanic. The tutorials are long and dont explain how the game works. It also doesnt repeat info or make you prove you learned it via a demonstration so after a textbox of “hey Sab does the same thing a com does to hold the stagger gauge” it never mentions it again and doesnt care that you immediately swapped to rav/rav.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:57
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BrightWing posted:It's been forever since I've played 13 so don't take this to heart, but i wanna say every 2 times you let the atb fill normally you can Shift after using up that second refill and you'll automatically have full atb IB the new paradigm for the whole party. Speedruns abuse this with multiple COM stack paradigms to stack damage. There's a setting for battle command memory.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:58
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Fister Roboto posted:Like others said, probably the biggest pitfall players fall into is staying in a single paradigm for an entire fight. There's nothing inherently wrong with COM/MED/SEN, but never shifting out of it will make fights unbearably slow. Unfortunately, nothing in the game actively dissuades you from doing that, which means that some players think that's how it's meant to be played, and then they think that the game is just slow. Time rankings for better drops/TP recharge/chievos and the actual boss battles with time limits (of which there are several) are what's specifically there to prevent players from just sitting on a paradigm that has sen/med on it to heal. Also if you ever are low leveled, your offense is generally okay enough that good play can win you through 70% of the fights in the game but your defense makes it so you can't sit in med/sen's or they'll just die fast. BrightWing posted:It's been forever since I've played 13 so don't take this to heart, but i wanna say every 2 times you let the atb fill normally you can Shift after using up that second refill and you'll automatically have full atb IB the new paradigm for the whole party. Speedruns abuse this with multiple COM stack paradigms to stack damage. How much you let the atb fill up depends on the length of your ATB bar. For 3/4 bars that's generally right, for 5 bars it's 1 full bar + 4 bars, I don't remember what it'd be for 6 atb. And yes, after you put in a manual entry of commands, hold left on the action option to get "repeat" (there's even an arrow on the action option to let you know this exists), which will remember your last sequence used for that role, even if you switch from other paradigms or roles. It lets you put in several actions much faster that end up being better + faster than what auto battle would give you in a ton of fights.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:59
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Barudak posted:Only the first time in the fight, where time pauses, after that they just do a quick wiggle and move on their merry way. that mandatory paradigm shift cutscene every time you switch for the first time in a battle was a terrrrrrrrrible idea.
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Apr 23, 2018 18:06
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i am tim! posted:I recently picked up FFXIII on a Steam sale and have been only struggling a teensy bit. I had heard that the tutorials go on forever, but I never knew it glosses over what sounds like a key, central mechanic. I thoroughly enjoyed my play thru of 13 but that was def helped by having like 2 or 3 years worth of people explaining things never said in game, I'm sure blind I would have been one of the "never go out of com/med/sen" folks
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Apr 23, 2018 18:17
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Momomo posted:The first time sure, but even after that there's a fairly long transition. It's not like say, Lightning Returns where you can actively take advantage of switching mid combo. The transition is long enough even tapping the “do the next command string now with incomplete atb” has a pause, but its still fast enough that you can do lots of nifty stuff with class rotations in battle and come out way ahead or swap paradigms with plenty of time in response to lonnger windup attacks
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Apr 23, 2018 18:23
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Cool stuff to hear that I wish I knew playin the game. I can't remember if I heard about the free ATB on switching thing towards the end of XIII or if I didn't start doing it till like, halfway through XIII-2. Also definitely didn't figure the role boosts did much to stack until doing COM/COM/COM for big attacks real late in the game. They should've like, put a tutorial section in the game yo. I'm glad I spent a minute on youtube after dipping my feet into XIII-3 with the tips to set up outfits like the other games in the series of having one stacking HP and defense for COM, one for magic, one for physical attacks. If I didn't I def would've just done 3 hybrid-ey sets for a long time and I imagine not had it work out great.
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Apr 23, 2018 18:51
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The game does mention that each class gives a benefit, leveling it up is noted on the crystarium and as nodes,, and that having more of one class gives extra benefits. Its just a single textbox, though.
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Apr 23, 2018 19:04
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Fister Roboto posted:The really funny thing about the auto command is that it selects commands even better than you can, because it does things that most players aren't even aware of. Every wonder why sometimes it will mix up different commands, like  Mr. Locke posted:That’s a little high for Giant but the final dungeon is an infamous difficulty spike for IV- think back to how much harder Tower if Zot was then anything that came before it and it’s about the same. So you probably won’t mind those levels starting off the finale. The usual level I find for a normal play through is high 40s to low/mid 50s for the last boss, depending on how many of the bonus dungeons and endgame equips I bother do deal with.
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Apr 23, 2018 19:10
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The game spends twenty hours "teaching" you how to play, but doesn't focus on the most important aspects of the battle system. It really feels like it ended up being good entirely by accident.
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Apr 23, 2018 19:39
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Seconding this, but my small-child self wants to chime in that Rydia gets Meteo at 60 and so that's obviously the intended level to do the final fight. Meteo(r) is such a freaking tease, sure it's powerful but it's terribly inefficient and learned so late. Anyone that you could bother using it on you could do the same with Quake with a much faster speed and much less MP spent and still probably kill them. ...plus in the PSP version it has a summon-length animation due to its theatrical presence in the game, and that just gets tedious.
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Apr 23, 2018 19:44
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Momomo posted:The game spends twenty hours "teaching" you how to play, but doesn't focus on the most important aspects of the battle system. It really feels like it ended up being good entirely by accident. It would not surprise me if most of the good stuff in the whole series was by accident.
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Apr 23, 2018 19:47
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My favorite stupid thing to do in XIII is giving Hope a level in COM because at just one rank the only action he'll learn is Ruin and it will use his monstrous MAG stat. Most players won't think to bother because COM is overwhelmingly a physical role so who would give the black mage a level in it. It's also interesting in that the "off" roles for each character in the game can actually turn out to have some really neat niche gimmicks. For instance Lightning's SEN tree makes her an extreme dodge tank and Hope's SAB tree gives him access to multi-target versions of every single debuff/ailment available. Shame that investing in off-roles requires a shitton of grinding in the end game areas.
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Apr 23, 2018 19:50
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Alxprit posted:Meteo(r) is such a freaking tease, sure it's powerful but it's terribly inefficient and learned so late. Anyone that you could bother using it on you could do the same with Quake with a much faster speed and much less MP spent and still probably kill them. Has Ultima been a good spell to cast in any game other than VI, actually? In II you have to grind it up, and in X you're probably better off using Flare.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:01
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ApplesandOranges posted:Has Ultima been a good spell to cast in any game other than VI, actually? In II you have to grind it up, and in X you're probably better off using Flare. It's kinda useful in FFX for wiping multiple enemies, but considering how late you get it it's more of a timesaver than a meaningful upgrade.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:06
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Alxprit posted:Meteo(r) is such a freaking tease, sure it's powerful but it's terribly inefficient and learned so late. Anyone that you could bother using it on you could do the same with Quake with a much faster speed and much less MP spent and still probably kill them. Bahamut's only slightly weaker than Meteo, yet a lot cheaper and significantly faster, plus I want to say there's a few counters Meteo will trigger that Bahamut won't, plus unless you really grind you'll get Bahamut much earlier than Meteo (assuming you get it at all!).
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Apr 23, 2018 20:11
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ApplesandOranges posted:Has Ultima been a good spell to cast in any game other than VI, actually? In II you have to grind it up, and in X you're probably better off using Flare. Not really. It and Meteor both tend to fill the niche of ‘that hard hitting but grossly inefficient spell.’ It’s also really really good in FFVIII but nobody would ever know that because everyone just junctions it to their attack and that’s that. IIRC it’s also pretty good in Type Zero, but I can’t say I have experience with that one.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:11
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ApplesandOranges posted:Has Ultima been a good spell to cast in any game other than VI, actually? In II you have to grind it up, and in X you're probably better off using Flare. It kills the party in IX, does that count?
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Apr 23, 2018 20:24
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Barudak posted:It kills the party in IX, does that count? It kills a whole loving planet in IX. And then it kills the universe so hard you have to beat up the freakin’ Grim Reaper to bring it back.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:29
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Darth Walrus posted:It kills a whole loving planet in IX. And then it kills the universe so hard you have to beat up the freakin’ Grim Reaper to bring it back. I love IX.  My real problem with XIII honestly is the parts that are more "Action game" oriented, like the positioning of your dudes, or launch juggling (though i actually like launch, it's fun imo), or one poster above mentioned how the system will alternate abilities for you because that gets a higher chain amount? That's absolutely true, but some characters (Sazh) take for loving ever to actually do the animation to alternate like that, to the point you can actually lose chain if you don't manually tell him to just spam Fire. Its also why Snow is an amazing caster, his spell animation is super fast. Tldr: FF XIII is silly
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Apr 23, 2018 21:15
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Air juggling is not handled well because the ai doesnt think it through super well, but you can use the early execute/early cancel command to offset the tempo of launch and followups so you can optimize the damage better. Its not ideal but it works. The positioning thing is odd but the game has very few enemies where its relevant, but since theyre prettyin that fighht relevant it can feel like a significant oversight even if ultimately you can power through even if your party are massive dolts. Its me, I love FFXIII* *Does not apply to things involving the story, items, summons, or crafting.
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Apr 23, 2018 21:26
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Otherworld is better than one winged angel
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Apr 24, 2018 00:14
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Momomo posted:The game spends twenty hours "teaching" you how to play, but doesn't focus on the most important aspects of the battle system. It really feels like it ended up being good entirely by accident. *breathlessly* this obscurantist design that wastes your time makes it the best in the series
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Apr 24, 2018 01:32
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Fister Roboto posted:The really funny thing about the auto command is that it selects commands even better than you can, because it does things that most players aren't even aware of. Every wonder why sometimes it will mix up different commands, like This is both right and completely wrong. Auto battle in general does favor things that get chain bonus yes, but you can do that easily yourself with many strings on manual inputs with no time wasted since you usually have to wait out a full atb bar at somepoint. It's simple for tons of encounters in the game where you'll only need Fire/Blizzard/Fire/Blizzard cause selecting them is right next to each other, or fire/fira which are always next to each other. The chain bonuses will be the exact same with virtually no time lost if you're good enough. Most things are just simply 2 inputs repeated which is extremely easy. That, and Auto battle frequently ranges from inefficient to downright terrible the further and further you get into the game when you need more specific things. Commando strings will automatically change between attack/blitz based on distance which is frequently not what you want (especially for Sahz who wants to just get blitz/blitz). Ravagers not only have the same problem for fire/fira outside of stagger, but the exact string you described (Fire/Flamestrike/Fire/Flamestrike) is also pretty bad since switching between Magic cast animations and attack animations back and forth is far slower than one or the other. Sabs are pretty bad with autobattle if you need something really specific (though it works out if they only have limited status weaknesses). Synergists are REALLY bad with auto battle because the order the AI chooses buffs will never ever be the order you want in numerous fights. The AI for choosing things with medic can be very screwy and bad when you start wanting to differentiate between healing a single person/full party in tough encounters (you won't really feel this until the really intense fights probably though). Auto-battle is pretty okay with Sentinels, or at the least I would not say it's a detriment like the others. There are definitely fights where auto-battle can be sufficient as much as manual inputs, yes. But there are plenty of fights where manual inputs are very clearly better and more efficient, most especially if they involve synergists at all. Ventana fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 01:52
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Mr. Locke posted:Not really. It and Meteor both tend to fill the niche of ‘that hard hitting but grossly inefficient spell.’ It’s also really really good in FFVIII but nobody would ever know that because everyone just junctions it to their attack and that’s that. It's decent in VIII, but worse than Meteor since the only spell worth casting in endgame is via Angel Wing. If Ultima could inherently overflow like Shockwave Pulsar maybe, but that might make Rinoa too powerful. Also man, X-2 was the last game to have it as a playable spell, isn't it?
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Apr 24, 2018 01:53
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When does the pacing pick up in FFX? I really enjoyed the beginning, but the game becomes kind of boring for a while once the main journey begins. It's still enjoyable overall for me, but I'm ready for the plot to go bonkers. For some (dumb) reason, I bought X-2 when it came out without ever playing X. Playing X now finally gives me some context for the world state in X-2, but the games feel more separate than I thought they would be.
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Apr 24, 2018 02:27
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I think X starts getting more hurried around... Macalania, probably. You could say Mushroom Rock Road, but I don't think that's actually a huge shake-up.
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Apr 24, 2018 02:33
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Mega64 posted:Bahamut's only slightly weaker than Meteo, yet a lot cheaper and significantly faster, plus I want to say there's a few counters Meteo will trigger that Bahamut won't, plus unless you really grind you'll get Bahamut much earlier than Meteo (assuming you get it at all!). Zeromus counters Meteo with flare, IIRC.
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Apr 24, 2018 02:43
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Villain's Mask posted:When does the pacing pick up in FFX? I really enjoyed the beginning, but the game becomes kind of boring for a while once the main journey begins. It's still enjoyable overall for me, but I'm ready for the plot to go bonkers. Where are you? For most people mushroom rock road and the attendent scenes is where most people get hooked. The plot kicks into its final frantic pace after you finish the temple following guadosalam.
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Apr 24, 2018 02:52
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's decent in VIII, but worse than Meteor since the only spell worth casting in endgame is via Angel Wing. I think it shows up in Lightning Returns? Not certain on that. At least the last main-line(ish) games. I know spin-offs have had it at least as recently as WoFF and Explorers. (Ultima is very good in VIII. If you set your bar on 'good' to be Limit Break Spam with max junctioned stats, anything else in the game is going to be a gross disappointment. Ultima is a huge bit better then most else you can be doing with your turns in VIII.)
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Apr 24, 2018 03:00
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Barudak posted:Where are you? For most people mushroom rock road and the attendent scenes is where most people get hooked. I am in the Thunder Plains. It definitely feels like things are going to get moving once I get to the temple; I am just ready for the over-the-top late game contrivances.
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Apr 24, 2018 03:13
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Mr. Locke posted:I think it shows up in Lightning Returns? Not certain on that. At least the last main-line(ish) games. I know spin-offs have had it at least as recently as WoFF and Explorers. Depends on how far you're willing to go for damage. If you're using Double/Triple, Ultima does offer great damage (at the expense of a really good Junction). Otherwise, lvl 95+ Cactuar is consistent, reliable 10,000 damage. I don't think it's that hard to get Meteor to do over 1k per hit though, at which point it beats Ultima except on multi-target bosses.
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Apr 24, 2018 03:27
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Was FF12 unfinished or rushed to market? I had a good time, but so much of that game felt like it was just in a unfinished state. I made it to what I consider to be the final dungeon without realizing it was the final dungeon and I thought I had quite a bit more left to the game. I felt like there was stuff in the story that was just underexplained
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Apr 24, 2018 03:48
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There's no rules at Square Enix. Everyone just fucks off and makes or doesn't make whatever they want or don't want and if it ships it ships.
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Apr 24, 2018 03:55
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blackguy32 posted:Was FF12 unfinished or rushed to market? I had a good time, but so much of that game felt like it was just in a unfinished state. I made it to what I consider to be the final dungeon without realizing it was the final dungeon and I thought I had quite a bit more left to the game. Wasn't development a giant mess and the lead writer/director left like halfway through?
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