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Honestly I'm just going to mod out damage immunity ASAP. Maybe I'll keep elemental immunities that make sense like Ice Elementals being immune to freeze, but them just arbitrarily being immune to crush as well isn't logical or fun.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:40
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Zore posted:Ugh. I think it's more that guns are very popular choices, so developers are inclined, reflexively, to suspect that guns may be an "over powered' choice, even though players are picking them for "cool factor" not so much for power. Conversely, they may think that bows, scepters, etc. need a "boost" to make them a more popular choice, not realizing that guns are a popular choice because shooting a dragon in the face with a gun is awesome in and of itself regardless of the gun's stats -- even guns are clearly the worst choice mathematically, a lot of players are going to pick them anyway, because gun. Zore posted:Yeah that was true in like the PoE1 beta and literally every change to the first game after that nerfed the crap out of guns. I think a lot of this wasn't necessarily intentional -- there were a number of conceptually cool blunderbussi (is that the correct plural? It is now!), they just got sortof slapped in passing with the nerf stick in ways that I'm not sure anyone thought about directly. The reload time vs. recovery time issue didn't seem like a deliberate choice so much as something that kinda happened due to the way the game's attack calculations worked and then became too troublesome to fix (and it is fixed, mostly, in Deadfire). The Scon Mica's Roar was awesome until the barbarian Vile Loner's Lance build got popular and they nerfed the effect so it didn't stack (both weapons shared the effect)(saddest day ever in Eora). That Silver Flash blunderbuss would've been great except they made it an AoE not Foe AoE effect so yeaaah useless on a backline character, but I think that was partly due to the emphasis on making every unique weapon in the first game truly unique and never clearly better or worse than an alternate weapon -- if it were FoE AoE it would have been too clearly "the best gun." And they did add Fulvano's Blunderbuss in the Deadfire Pack. Josh has said a number of things at different points that indicates he appreciates the coolness of shooting a dragon in the face, the dev team isn't anti-gun. It's just a combination of accidental weirdness in the game code (the current "guns do less damage on critical hits than on normal hits" issue is a fresh example of that) and wanting to make sure guns don't just dominate all other game choices.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:43
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Zore posted:Ugh.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think it's more that guns are very popular choices, so developers are inclined, reflexively, to suspect that guns may be an "over powered' choice, even though players are picking them for "cool factor" not so much for power. Conversely, they may think that bows, scepters, etc. need a "boost" to make them a more popular choice, not realizing that guns are a popular choice because shooting a dragon in the face with a gun is awesome in and of itself regardless of the gun's stats -- even guns are clearly the worst choice mathematically, a lot of players are going to pick them anyway, because gun. I mean I get that this is mostly true, but swords are also by far the most popular melee choice and the game loving overloads you with types of sword, unique swords and give them better base stats than like clubs or axes so I'm not sure it totally tracks. I really hope we get less of a glut of 'cool swords' so every discussion doesn't essentially come down to 'which sword did you pick???' for melee weapons.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:47
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The silver flash blunderbuss was an “interesting unique” - unfortunately (last I checked) still bugged to hit your own party.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:48
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Dairy Power posted:Well, let's be fair. The very first unique you run across in the game is a gun It might be more of a thing in Deadfire, I know I find myself using Arcane Veil a lot more now just because it's so easy to script the casting. I just hope there's a decent multi-damage-type arquebus or blunderbuss unique or three in the game, that's all it would take to solve this particular issue. Or make the Arquebus do Crushing damage, it'd just make the arquebus the mace of ranged weapons -- high penetration, single Crushing damage type, relatively low DPS vs other ranged weapons (it's high alpha strike currently but lowest DPS over time of any ranged option). Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 15:50
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Can you still carry two guns in poe2 and just alternate firing them as a Paladin before whipping out your melee weapon? I'm doing a Bleakwalker like that in Poe1 right now where I fire two flame shots with Arquebusses for massive crits and then it's melee time. It gets around the slow reload time of guns by not ever reloading them and flames of devotion crits for hilarious numbers with an Arquebus. It does require some time to switch weapons but it's still way faster to do it that way then just reloading the gun and also you only get two Fod per fight anyways so you can just alpha strike some fools and then auto attack/tank.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:55
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'savage' is kind of an unfortunate word choice
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Apr 24, 2018 15:56
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As far as guns go in Pillars 2, I think I'd have a lot of fun with one of the gunslinger blackjacket builds like Scott did in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjzD0NlZRCM If flames of devotion applies to both pistols, a paladin might make a sweet multiclass with that. Or maybe Cipher to get the quick bursts of focus? Hieronymous Alloy posted:It might be more of a thing in Deadfire, I know I find myself using Arcane Veil a lot more now just because it's so easy to script the casting. Honestly, I'd love if having part of my build being focused on hunting down drat dirty mages with guns was useful in the game. Or if the abilities like Deprive the Unworthy were worthwhile more often. I think I got mileage out of it maybe or once or twice total in my last playthrough. So I wouldn't mind seeing enemies use buffs better/more often. And yeah, more gun diversity would be great. Especially with all of the pirate themed options. Dairy Power fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 15:57
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Zore posted:I mean I get that this is mostly true, but swords are also by far the most popular melee choice and the game loving overloads you with types of sword, unique swords and give them better base stats than like clubs or axes so I'm not sure it totally tracks. Swords are a popular melee choice because people love swords for various reasons (I'm not that stuck on them, personally). There are several categories of sword because D&D has a bunch of them, too. The only reason capital S Swords got overrepresented in uniques is because backers and designers kept designing them in spite of my requests not to. I still think that maces and warhammers (in Deadfire at least) are generally more useful one-handed weapons and I prefer pikes and quarterstaves (especially) for distance. Morningstars are best of Crush/Pierce and do identical damage to greatswords. If you have anyone who regularly targets Fortitude, the morningstar modal is fantastic IME.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:01
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rope kid posted:The only reason capital S Swords got overrepresented in uniques is because backers and designers kept designing them in spite of my requests not to. This is just rubbing salt in my failure to waste $500 on item-backing a Volley Gun.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:07
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rope kid posted:The only reason capital S Swords got overrepresented in uniques is because backers and designers kept designing them in spite of my requests not to. Meanwhile in the Obsidian employee kitchen: 
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Apr 24, 2018 16:07
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rope kid posted:As other people in this thread have already pointed out, clubs (in Deadfire, at least) are extremely potent if you have anyone in your party targeting Will and battle axes can do massive damage if used properly. Swords have best of Slash/Pierce, but all best of weapons now have 1 Pen lower than weapons that have a single damage type -- which is still a net bonus, but circumstantially worse when the target has the same AR vs. both types. I hope the distribution of unique weapons is more balanced in poe2. In Poe1 you can't get a good battle axe until Wm1(Woedwys) or Act 3 (We Toki/maybe Rimecutter if you luck out with Azzuro). Then there's Edge of Reason too but that's way buried in Endless Paths. You can buy an exceptional battle axe in Ondra's Gift but it's not a very sexy weapon since that is all it does. Daggers and Morningstars also have the same problem. Most of the other weapon types have something interesting you can get reasonably early in the game though.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:09
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That blunderbuss that lowered defenses by 5 per hit was pretty amazing until they nerfed it.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:10
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Are poleaxes fixed? I saw at one point in the beta they did literally nothing but take up an inventory slot. They still crush/slash?
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Apr 24, 2018 16:12
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rope kid posted:As other people in this thread have already pointed out, clubs (in Deadfire, at least) are extremely potent if you have anyone in your party targeting Will and battle axes can do massive damage if used properly. Swords have best of Slash/Pierce, but all best of weapons now have 1 Pen lower than weapons that have a single damage type -- which is still a net bonus, but circumstantially worse when the target has the same AR vs. both types. Yeah, I was mostly talking about PoE1 there. Should have clarified. Deadfire definitely looks better in not having swords dominate the base stat categories any more which is good! Warhammers are always my favorite dumb weapon to use in game so I'm glad you think they're good in Deadfire. I'm probably going to have Eder swinging around two of them at some point. i also wish I had had $500 of disposable income to design a fun unique back during the kickstarters instead of YAFS.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:16
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personally i'm a sucker for spears. The King of Weapons is always sadly underrepresented in CRPGS.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:19
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I’ve been avoiding most videos and media on Deadfire with the exception of what I see in this thread. It can’t be stated enough how absolutely elegant the interface looks. I had no issues with the first games UI but this one is gorgeous and super easy to read.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:20
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I watched a video that goes over the AI script customization and that may be the thing I'm most excited for now. I don't know if this comparison plays in this room but it gives me some FF12 vibes except with like mondo granularity.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:27
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I had Edér using Beza's Toothed Blade and a shield + a unique warhammer + the same shield for most of my main playthrough. My favorite combo was actually Aloth with Squid's Grasp (rapier) and a unique sceptre. The sceptres were pretty solid at range and if a dope closed in to mess with him, he had a surprisingly high finishing rate with the rapier. E: Also he looked badass. https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/962804710808829952 rope kid fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 16:28
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ropekid canonically what multiclass combo should we be if we want to roleplay the game as guybrush threepwood
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Apr 24, 2018 16:29
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MMF Freeway posted:I watched a video that goes over the AI script customization and that may be the thing I'm most excited for now. I don't know if this comparison plays in this room but it gives me some FF12 vibes except with like mondo granularity. It's one of the inspirations quoted by Obsidian (another is Dragon Age Origins).
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Apr 24, 2018 16:29
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rope kid posted:I had Edér using Beza's Toothed Blade and a shield + a unique warhammer + the same shield for most of my main playthrough. Did you have him multiclassed?
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Apr 24, 2018 16:48
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Quick question about the beginning of PoE1, as I'm replaying it now. Does the beginning of the game have TWO biawacs happening? There's the one when you first go into Cilant Lis, then the Thaos encounter afterward. But when you go to town and explain what happened, your character words it as though Thaos caused the Biawac. This is weird because the Biawac ended before we ever saw him. So when he does his soul machine bullshit, is he causing a second biawac and this is what causes us to wake up with dead friends?
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Apr 24, 2018 16:52
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When dual wielding a ranged weapon and melee weapon, how does the math work? Do you ever attack with both in a single attack action? Does it go off of dual-wielding and get bonuses through that?
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Apr 24, 2018 16:54
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Impermanent posted:personally i'm a sucker for spears. The King of Weapons is always sadly underrepresented in CRPGS. This always aggravates me. I also don't like that they're very frequently designed or treated as somehow primitive or more "savage" types of weapons as opposed to more "refined" choices. PoE did have a really amazing spear in it, but you had to do some pretty evil, questionable stuff to get it. rope kid posted:Swords are a popular melee choice because people love swords for various reasons (I'm not that stuck on them, personally). There are several categories of sword because D&D has a bunch of them, too. The only reason capital S Swords got overrepresented in uniques is because backers and designers kept designing them in spite of my requests not to. I don't feel like capital S swords are very good in PoE. Warhammers are a clearly superior base type, since they both have dual damage types, but warhammers deal the almighty crush. And the warhammer uniques are far more interesting than the swords. Swords have a speed unique, but it comes right at the very end of the game and lots of other weapons have speed. Shame or Glory is a legitimately good weapon because of marking, and you can get it at a reasonable time, but it's not jaw-dropping and it's locked behind one of the three factions. The soulbound sword isn't very exciting at all. All in all, looking at equipment choices, swords are mediocre at best. That's not true at all of sabers, greatswords and estocs, they all have candidates for best weapon in the game. But capital S swords have quantity, perhaps, but certainly not quality. Zore posted:When dual wielding a ranged weapon and melee weapon, how does the math work? Do you ever attack with both in a single attack action? Does it go off of dual-wielding and get bonuses through that? I think you get the speed bonus as if you're dual wielding, but you only attack with the appropriate weapon for your range. People in the beta have been casting minor blights with a dagger in the offhand for faster attack rate with the blights. I have no idea what happens if you use a full attack while using mixed-range weapons, though. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 16:58
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Zore posted:When dual wielding a ranged weapon and melee weapon, how does the math work? Do you ever attack with both in a single attack action? Does it go off of dual-wielding and get bonuses through that? It goes off dual-weilding and each attacks at faster speed as if you were dual weilding but you just use the one weapon. You'll also pause to reload your gun if there's a gun in hand, etc. They should probably change it so that each weapon works at one range or the other only, i.e., no reloading guns in melee range if you have a melee weapon in your other hand, but you use the single-weapon bonus and skill, not dual-weilding.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:03
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marshmallow creep posted:Are poleaxes fixed? I saw at one point in the beta they did literally nothing but take up an inventory slot. They still crush/slash? Not in the current beta but lots of stuff isn't fixed in the current beta. think they're still crush slash I did a chart of all the weapons in the current beta https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gsz3Hd_3HPs6RtE5YFTfSUzcPNRUY2h9yy733Jp5_50/edit#gid=0 but sorry looks like I left poleax off since ti's bugged sorry [Note that arquebus is down at the bottom of the dps list for two handers! sad!] Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 17:05
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Yeah I am a sucker for poleaxes because they are the closest thing in the game to two handed axes and things like the bec de corbin, which I am keen on. Hope they are good when I finally get to play.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:14
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chaosapiant posted:I’ve been avoiding most videos and media on Deadfire with the exception of what I see in this thread. It can’t be stated enough how absolutely elegant the interface looks. I had no issues with the first games UI but this one is gorgeous and super easy to read. While I do think the new UI looks great and the QoL improvements are very nice, I'm gonna miss the rough wooden textures of the original game's UI, not gonna lie.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:18
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Your Computer posted:Unlike constantly pausing? Back when the game came out Obsidian did an April Fools update saying they were going to patch in a turn-based mode. Some people forgot what day it was and cheered, and were in for some bitter disappointment
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Apr 24, 2018 17:18
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They must have never played arcanum.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Not in the current beta but lots of stuff isn't fixed in the current beta. Was the gun accuracy penalty removed or is it just not reflected in the chart? Also does that account for crits and the current 'guns do less damage on a crit' bug.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:23
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chaosapiant posted:Quick question about the beginning of PoE1, as I'm replaying it now. Does the beginning of the game have TWO biawacs happening? There's the one when you first go into Cilant Lis, then the Thaos encounter afterward. But when you go to town and explain what happened, your character words it as though Thaos caused the Biawac. This is weird because the Biawac ended before we ever saw him. So when he does his soul machine bullshit, is he causing a second biawac and this is what causes us to wake up with dead friends?
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Apr 24, 2018 17:24
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Zore posted:Was the gun accuracy penalty removed or is it just not reflected in the chart? No none of that is in the chart That's just a straight damage vs swing time and recovery time calculation, it makes no adjustments for crits, specials, modals, penetration, overpenetration, accuracy, or anything else, unless the other things naturally show up in the captured numbers (as the saber damage bonus does). I could theoretically go through and add the special for each weapon and the modal into the chart but that would involve  . The main reason I did it was just to help me remember what each weapon's damage types and penetration values were when levelling up.If you really want to get persnickety you could find my steam profile and look through my screenshots, I screenshotted every weapon with a 10-might, 10-dex character to get those numbers.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:26
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I would like to hire randoms at the same level as my main dude because it is very annoying otherwise. Is there a good way to make sure my dudes are roughly the same level that I'm missing?
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Apr 24, 2018 17:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:No none of that is in the chart Mostly just asking about the accuracy because you did put it in for spears and then zeroed out a ton of other weapons including guns 
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Apr 24, 2018 17:27
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Zore posted:Mostly just asking about the accuracy because you did put it in for spears and then zeroed out a ton of other weapons including guns Yeah spears have a slight bonus and initially I was putting all the data in but I got lazy. It isn't reflected in the DPS calc. I'm not sure that guns actually have an accuracy penalty any more. They have the blunted criticals issue and they have "unsuitable for melee" deflection penalty but the accuracy issue seems to have been zeroed out or at least isn't reflected in weapon screenshots. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 17:29
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:not found "an expansion that allows you to craft your own islands for unlimited adventure potential" I imagine a procgen dungeon would be very difficult to do with this kind of game, but people like them some procgen nowadays so a special dungeon where you go into the Beyond and fight enemies you've already defeated or something would be a neat back-of-the-box bullet point, and would be great for leveling up the old soulbounds
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Apr 24, 2018 17:38
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If there’s one thing that ppl loved about Bloodborne it was the Chalice dungeons
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Apr 24, 2018 17:40
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