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Kennel posted:https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-04-25-now-belgium-declares-loot-boxes-gambling-and-therefore-illegal quote:"That is why we must also ensure that children and adults are not confronted with games of chance when they are looking for fun in a video game."
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Apr 25, 2018 16:49
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I too encourage game devs to continue making games that contains randomized progression that can be bypassed by simply throwing more money at the dev.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:50
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Leal posted:I too encourage game devs to continue making games that contains randomized progression that may potentially if you're exceedingly lucky be bypassed by simply throwing more money at the dev. Small correction. Carry on.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:51
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Children gambling is supposed to be a good thing now. Lootboxes are and always have been bullshit and they can't go away soon enough.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:52
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Kragger99 posted:There it is. My tutorial. Note that there's a pilot skill called Bulwark that you can get really early (for now) that lets you get Guarded (50% damage reduction) if they don't move. This is incredibly strong since you normally have to give up your shooting or use a morale ability to get guarded. Those pilots throw a wrench into the normal always-get-max-evasion-and-forests gameplay. You can punch people to strip guarded though, but if you don't look at the move order beforehand it's very easy to waste that option.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:55
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So far I also really like Battletech. It does need some optimizations and to speed up the turns so it is more like XCom, but otherwise I'm enjoying it.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:29
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Samuringa posted:Children gambling is supposed to be a good thing now. Is MTG also illegal in Europe? The monetization seems basically identical to loot boxes that can be cashed out (just not digital). I would shed no tears if all "mystery _____" style schemes disappeared.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:31
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Scalding Coffee posted:I don't like your idea of fun. - Belgium This may be the worst take on lootboxes I've ever seen.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:35
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Stickman posted:Is MTG also illegal in Europe? The monetization seems basically identical to loot boxes that can be cashed out (just not digital). I would shed no tears if all "mystery _____" style schemes disappeared. You can buy specific individual (C/E/T)CG cards aftermarket. (I don't know if any of those publishers sell individual cards directly.) You don't always have that option for specific individual loots. Maybe not even usually.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:36
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Stickman posted:Is MTG also illegal in Europe? The monetization seems basically identical to loot boxes that can be cashed out (just not digital). I would shed no tears if all "mystery _____" style schemes disappeared. It doesn't seem like trading card games have received the same negative attention as loot boxes, despite being basically the same thing. dont be mean to me posted:You can buy specific individual (C/E/T)CG cards aftermarket. (I don't know if any of those publishers sell individual cards directly.) Doesn't the thing from the Netherlands specifically say that items being tradable/sellable makes it gambling? You can also buy Dota 2, CSGO and PUBG items on the Steam market. Peewi fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 17:39
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if this leads to all card games becoming LCGs then i am down with that
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Apr 25, 2018 17:41
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Peewi posted:It doesn't seem like trading card games have received the same negative attention as loot boxes, despite being basically the same thing. Trading Cards are not blocks to progression. Loot boxes in these games are ltierally blocks to progression especially when compared to previous game (like FIFA) that didnt require loot boxes to enjoy it.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:42
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dont be mean to me posted:You can buy specific individual (C/E/T)CG cards aftermarket. (I don't know if any of those publishers sell individual cards directly.) My understanding is that it's the loot boxes that do have aftermarkets that are in trouble, because you can cash out your winnings. dont be mean to me posted:You can buy specific individual (C/E/T)CG cards aftermarket. (I don't know if any of those publishers sell individual cards directly.) My understanding is that it's the loot boxes that do have aftermarkets that are in trouble, because you can cash out your winnings. She Bangs the Drums posted:Trading Cards are not blocks to progression. Have you ever played a CCG? Progression (in the sense of competitiveness) literally hinges on the cards. Stickman fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 17:42
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She Bangs the Drums posted:Trading Cards are not blocks to progression. Trading cards are absolutely the same thing in a lot of cases like CS:GO because of the aftermarket is where the real problem is. Lootboxes are not progression in almost every game that people are talking about. Xaris fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 17:44
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She Bangs the Drums posted:Trading Cards are not blocks to progression. But then Overwatch for example does not even have progression.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:45
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bamhand posted:What makes loot boxes gambling? The fact that you buy them with real money? How is it different from card packs? Or will Hearthstone etc be included in the ruling soon? What if you can only obtain boxes from playing the game and not cash? Or what if you have some kind of purchasable currency that is usable for a bunch of different stuff (say double xp or to directly buy skins) but you can also use that currency to buy boxes? the gambling isn't the randomized rewards, it's the trade api that allows you to swap the items you get from boxes for actual money (or platform bux like steam account credit). This is basically everything that uses Steam's trade API, so definitely pubg and dota and cs:go and so on. if you put a set amount of money in a machine, and then you have a chance of getting an item you can sell for 100+ dollars from it, yeah that's gambling it's less clear cut when players can't sell items for money, as in hearthstone and overwatch, but there are still some smart regulations that can make that system less exploitative too, like mandating that the odds of each tier of rarity for loot box rewards being clearly visible to players to give them an actual sense of return on investment. e: yeah though ccgs should all be completely illegal, they just all grew up in the same lax regulatory atmosphere that these loot box games have, just a few decades earlier
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Apr 25, 2018 17:46
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Stickman posted:My understanding is that it's the loot boxes that do have aftermarkets that are in trouble, because you can cash out your winnings. That's what makes this Belgium ruling significant. It includes games, like Overwatch, where there isn't an aftermarket.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:47
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Avalerion posted:But then Overwatch for example does not even have progression. Yeah the Overwatch thing doesn't make sense to me. Looks like Belgium isnt gonna get to play Overwatch.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:49
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It's about what falls under the definition of gambling, nobody's analyzing progression. Trading card games are the same, they're not addressed yet because nobody brought attention to them. When anti-lootbox laws spread around Europe then yeah, trading cards are probably next.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:52
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MMF Freeway posted:That's what makes this Belgium ruling significant. It includes games, like Overwatch, where there isn't an aftermarket. Does the Belgian ruling give a path for compliance beyond "get rid of the boxes"? Like the previous suggestion of clear odds + maybe a guaranteed amount of virtual cash in each box to make any winnable item purchasable within a fixed minimum number of box openings? E: I think that's already pretty close to how Overwatch does it, except the "fixed minimum currency" part. Stickman fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 17:53
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Stickman posted:Is MTG also illegal in Europe? The monetization seems basically identical to loot boxes that can be cashed out (just not digital). I would shed no tears if all "mystery _____" style schemes disappeared.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:53
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Palpek posted:It's about what falls under the definition of gambling, nobody's analyzing progression. good, gently caress tcgs
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Apr 25, 2018 17:54
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Palpek posted:It's about what falls under the definition of gambling, nobody's analyzing progression. Fair enough. I think the Belgium ruling a perfect example of government bureaucratic overreach but hey that's pretty much the EU in the nutshell.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:55
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Stickman posted:Does the Belgian ruling give a path for compliance beyond "get rid of the boxes"? Like the previous suggestion of clear odds + maybe a guaranteed amount of virtual cash in each box to make any winnable item purchasable within a fixed minimum number of box openings? Their statement basically says that the named companies have to remove the lootboxes for now or face stiff penalties but that they "wish to open a dialogue with developers" to "see who should take responsibility where" whatever that means.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:59
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She Bangs the Drums posted:Fair enough. I think the Belgium ruling a perfect example of government bureaucratic overreach but hey that's pretty much the EU in the nutshell.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:00
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Apr 25, 2018 18:01
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Harry Potter: Gaiden
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Apr 25, 2018 18:04
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Palpek posted:Why is it an overreach? There are gambling laws in place, if a publisher wants to sell a gambling game they absolutely can sell one, they just need to have it fallow gambling regulations with proper age restrictions, taxes and algorithm control. This isn't some new law being put in place but recognizing that a product was dodging existing laws. The Netherlands ruling makes sense since it specifically was against game rewards that could be "cashed out". The Belgium ruling does not since it includes games that have no ability to "cash out". The overreach is defining what is and isn't gambling. Unless of course in Belgium, slot machine games you can play on Facebook or your cell phone are illegal?
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Apr 25, 2018 18:07
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MiniMetro got an update and now it has Vintage Maps.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:08
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She Bangs the Drums posted:The Netherlands ruling makes sense since it specifically was against game rewards that could be "cashed out". The Belgium ruling does not since it includes games that have no ability to "cash out". Palpek fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 18:08
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She Bangs the Drums posted:Fair enough. I think the Belgium ruling a perfect example of government bureaucratic overreach but hey that's pretty much the EU in the nutshell. Every government so far having done nothing is an example of government underreach. Lootboxes are not ok, and never have been. Neither are TCGs.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:11
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DatonKallandor posted:Every government so far having done nothing is an example of government underreach. Lootboxes are not ok, and never have been. Neither are TCGs. If they are not ok and never have been why are they ruling on this now, instead of at or before the game release? TCG have been around for decades. They are suddenly bad now?
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Apr 25, 2018 18:24
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She Bangs the Drums posted:If they are not ok and never have been why are they ruling on this now, instead of at or before the game release? Darth Vader
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Apr 25, 2018 18:27
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She Bangs the Drums posted:If they are not ok and never have been why are they ruling on this now, instead of at or before the game release? They've always been bad, but The Kins posted:MTG doesn't have Darth Vader so nobody gives a poo poo.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:27
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"People have been drinking and driving for decades, but now it's suddenly bad?" Someone, probably, around the time that law was being made.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:27
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She Bangs the Drums posted:If they are not ok and never have been why are they ruling on this now, instead of at or before the game release? Because nerd-games were never taken serious. Now the people that grew up playing them are starting to get positions in governments so they are taken seriously. Plus they're worth a shitton of money now.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:28
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Truga posted:"People have been drinking and driving for decades, but now it's suddenly bad?"
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Apr 25, 2018 18:28
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Truga posted:"People have been drinking and driving for decades, but now it's suddenly bad?" Seatbelts!  efbContent: The GMG22 still works for 22% pretty much any cart on Greenmangaming and stacks with their current sales - just picked up Biohazard 7 and Shadow Warrior 2 for less than their historical lows. If you've had your eye on new games or anything on sale, it's definitely worth a look. Stickman fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 18:28
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She Bangs the Drums posted:If they are not ok and never have been why are they ruling on this now, instead of at or before the game release?
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Apr 25, 2018 18:29
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Truga posted:"People have been drinking and driving for decades, but now it's suddenly bad?" oh yeah comparing drunk driving to loot boxes isn't a false equivalency at all.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:30
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