Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

khwarezm posted:

CGP Grey seems to have turned into a major proselytiser when it comes to stopping aging and death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY

Wait, if the kingdom was able to grow and thrive despite feeding 10k people to the dragon every day for decades, how will they manage their new overpopulation problem? They sure as poo poo aren't going to stop loving like rabbits just because someone says it's bad. Assuming we don't just handwaive this whole scenario as a poorly thought out one created by an idiot (which it is), the problems raised by the pro-dragon side were just swept under the rug when the narrator said everyone eventually agreed that the dragon needed to be slain. Now that the dragon is dead, those problems would logically have to be faced next.

The way I see it, they're either going to have to implement some brutal system of population control to replace the dragon (again, lol at the idea of convincing people to gently caress less) or face a mass extinction event of the world's species followed by periods of famine. The third option is endless war to pillage their neighbors, increasing their resources while decreasing the amount of people in need of those resources. None of these are pleasant prospects and the kingdom is pretty much in a no-win scenario with regards to fecundity, all they did was reject the current unpleasant solution they were under. Don't tell me they can just make more effective contraception, they'd have to do a lot more than that to balance out the loss of a natural predator whose death toll started at 10k and only went up from there as it grew.

Again, I'd like to declare the whole video should be dismissed for being made by an idiot because he did something far worse than fail to consider the implications of the narrative, he handwaved them away because they conflicted with his absolute stance that "a current system should be destroyed because it's an absolute bad and wouldn't it be nice if it was" and he refused to either take time to address them, end with a "but they didn't exactly live happily ever after" statement or even show that the kingdom was taking time to consider the most humane replacement for their ridiculous system of being culled by an apex predator, which leaves me assuming this hypothetical kingdom deserves whatever fascist system or rampant overpopulation they'll be stuck with because they're accustomed to being unable to keep it in their pants to the point society was able to prop itself up despite the daily dragon munchings.

Seriously, how the gently caress can someone be expected to take the scenario seriously when Grey sure didn't and just wanted an "I'm right".

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Yeah Man
Oct 9, 2011

And if you had, you know, a huge killer robot at your command, yeah, that would just clutter things up; and a lesser person might want that kind of overwhelming force on their side, but you know - where's the challenge in that?

super sweet best pal posted:

Wait, if the kingdom was able to grow and thrive despite feeding 10k people to the dragon every day for decades, how will they manage their new overpopulation problem? They sure as poo poo aren't going to stop loving like rabbits just because someone says it's bad. Assuming we don't just handwaive this whole scenario as a poorly thought out one created by an idiot (which it is), the problems raised by the pro-dragon side were just swept under the rug when the narrator said everyone eventually agreed that the dragon needed to be slain. Now that the dragon is dead, those problems would logically have to be faced next.

The way I see it, they're either going to have to implement some brutal system of population control to replace the dragon (again, lol at the idea of convincing people to gently caress less) or face a mass extinction event of the world's species followed by periods of famine. The third option is endless war to pillage their neighbors, increasing their resources while decreasing the amount of people in need of those resources. None of these are pleasant prospects and the kingdom is pretty much in a no-win scenario with regards to fecundity, all they did was reject the current unpleasant solution they were under. Don't tell me they can just make more effective contraception, they'd have to do a lot more than that to balance out the loss of a natural predator whose death toll started at 10k and only went up from there as it grew.

Again, I'd like to declare the whole video should be dismissed for being made by an idiot because he did something far worse than fail to consider the implications of the narrative, he handwaved them away because they conflicted with his absolute stance that "a current system should be destroyed because it's an absolute bad and wouldn't it be nice if it was" and he refused to either take time to address them, end with a "but they didn't exactly live happily ever after" statement or even show that the kingdom was taking time to consider the most humane replacement for their ridiculous system of being culled by an apex predator, which leaves me assuming this hypothetical kingdom deserves whatever fascist system or rampant overpopulation they'll be stuck with because they're accustomed to being unable to keep it in their pants to the point society was able to prop itself up despite the daily dragon munchings.

Seriously, how the gently caress can someone be expected to take the scenario seriously when Grey sure didn't and just wanted an "I'm right".

Minor nitpick, Grey didn't come up with the scenario, he was just reading a scenario laid out by Nick Bostrom. Your point still stands though, just wanted to make sure you were arguing against the right person.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

The Simpsons actually died the first time they did one of those "I've done a lot of things over the years, list" callbacks.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

Yeah Man posted:

Minor nitpick, Grey didn't come up with the scenario, he was just reading a scenario laid out by Nick Bostrom. Your point still stands though, just wanted to make sure you were arguing against the right person.

Yeah, thanks.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


that was the funniest bit about the chuds raging over the apu thing - simpsons has been bad a lot longer than it's been good. (please guy who doesn't understand media can be bad or good don't take offense.)

Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Apr 26, 2018

Dean of Swing
Feb 22, 2012

super sweet best pal posted:


Seriously, how the gently caress can someone be expected to take the scenario seriously when Grey sure didn't and just wanted an "I'm right".


It would be a conundrum. For the past billion years of evolution life has predicated on the central principle of "at some point you are not going to be around anymore". I can see how that would be an especially disconcerting thought for tech CEOs who's entire lives do not take that into account. Sometimes the only thing that makes the world bearable is the knowledge that the entire House of Saud will someday be worm food like the rest of us.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos

Dean of Swing posted:

It would be a conundrum. For the past billion years of evolution life has predicated on the central principle of "at some point you are not going to be around anymore". I can see how that would be an especially disconcerting thought for tech CEOs who's entire lives do not take that into account. Sometimes the only thing that makes the world bearable is the knowledge that the entire House of Saud will someday be worm food like the rest of us.

I don't know, Ibn Saud was such a slut that there are alternate heirs in the double-digits. It's a house with plenty of redundancies.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

super sweet best pal posted:

Wait, if the kingdom was able to grow and thrive despite feeding 10k people to the dragon every day for decades, how will they manage their new overpopulation problem? They sure as poo poo aren't going to stop loving like rabbits just because someone says it's bad. Assuming we don't just handwaive this whole scenario as a poorly thought out one created by an idiot (which it is), the problems raised by the pro-dragon side were just swept under the rug when the narrator said everyone eventually agreed that the dragon needed to be slain. Now that the dragon is dead, those problems would logically have to be faced next.

The way I see it, they're either going to have to implement some brutal system of population control to replace the dragon (again, lol at the idea of convincing people to gently caress less) or face a mass extinction event of the world's species followed by periods of famine. The third option is endless war to pillage their neighbors, increasing their resources while decreasing the amount of people in need of those resources. None of these are pleasant prospects and the kingdom is pretty much in a no-win scenario with regards to fecundity, all they did was reject the current unpleasant solution they were under. Don't tell me they can just make more effective contraception, they'd have to do a lot more than that to balance out the loss of a natural predator whose death toll started at 10k and only went up from there as it grew.

Again, I'd like to declare the whole video should be dismissed for being made by an idiot because he did something far worse than fail to consider the implications of the narrative, he handwaved them away because they conflicted with his absolute stance that "a current system should be destroyed because it's an absolute bad and wouldn't it be nice if it was" and he refused to either take time to address them, end with a "but they didn't exactly live happily ever after" statement or even show that the kingdom was taking time to consider the most humane replacement for their ridiculous system of being culled by an apex predator, which leaves me assuming this hypothetical kingdom deserves whatever fascist system or rampant overpopulation they'll be stuck with because they're accustomed to being unable to keep it in their pants to the point society was able to prop itself up despite the daily dragon munchings.

Seriously, how the gently caress can someone be expected to take the scenario seriously when Grey sure didn't and just wanted an "I'm right".

The population question is something that irks me about it too, and probably the most. I know that overpopulation concerns today and in the past have lots of sordid and wrong elements behind them but on some level the human population is having a pretty big impact on the planet and it can't just go up indefinitely. Most people who study it note that the rate of increase has been decelerating for decades and the world's overall population should stabilize sometime midcentury if things continue down the current path, but that assumes that people still live to roughly 80-90 years and ultimately die. If human lifespans increase dramatically and we don't really change the way we have kids that would probably make overpopulation a real concern sometime in the future.

Futurist types usually say that that would be solved by going into space but I'm doubtful you'd be able to move a large enough amount of people offworld quickly enough to avoid permanently damaging the biosphere, or even that many people would want to leave Earth. Even on the most wild scales there's a limited amount of resources in the galaxy so at some point I'd presume these crazy advanced immortal humans would just stop reproducing.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

khwarezm posted:

The population question is something that irks me about it too, and probably the most. I know that overpopulation concerns today and in the past have lots of sordid and wrong elements behind them but on some level the human population is having a pretty big impact on the planet and it can't just go up indefinitely. Most people who study it note that the rate of increase has been decelerating for decades and the world's overall population should stabilize sometime midcentury if things continue down the current path, but that assumes that people still live to roughly 80-90 years and ultimately die. If human lifespans increase dramatically and we don't really change the way we have kids that would probably make overpopulation a real concern sometime in the future.

Futurist types usually say that that would be solved by going into space but I'm doubtful you'd be able to move a large enough amount of people offworld quickly enough to avoid permanently damaging the biosphere, or even that many people would want to leave Earth. Even on the most wild scales there's a limited amount of resources in the galaxy so at some point I'd presume these crazy advanced immortal humans would just stop reproducing.

Bad news about massive damage to the biosphere, I’m afraid. The next thousand years are going to be a lot rougher on the human race than the last thousand. Global warming is going to be our crucible and probably our next bottleneck. The water wars are really going to wreck up our technological progress.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

business hammocks posted:

Bad news about massive damage to the biosphere, I’m afraid. The next thousand years are going to be a lot rougher on the human race than the last thousand. Global warming is going to be our crucible and probably our next bottleneck. The water wars are really going to wreck up our technological progress.

India and Pakistan :suspense:

Disproportionation
Feb 20, 2011

Oh god it's the Clone Saga all over again.
I feel the whole prolonging ageing debate should be less about increasing human lifespan and more about increasing the proportion of lifespan that is spent without age-related illnesses and problems.

Like, I'd be happy with living for a few decades more, but I'd probably rather live a current normal lifespan but without having to slowly degenerate for the last 20-30 years or so. Of course, living longer may be a consequence of that which we may have to consider.

To keep this vaguely on topic, Kurzgesagt did a video on this line of thinking last year.

MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO
Superhero Movies (2017) - IHE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgcenfc6Qbc

lol James Cameron wants us all to get tired of Super Hero Movies so we can all watch his billion dollar Avatar sequels.

DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015

MariusLecter posted:

Superhero Movies (2017) - IHE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgcenfc6Qbc

lol James Cameron wants us all to get tired of Super Hero Movies so we can all watch his billion dollar Avatar sequels.

I've been predicting the crash of superhero films for the last five years and what keeps it afloat is that production companies are getting better at remixing the formula and finding new ways to reinvent the genre.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


i don't think the genre can really implode. even a mess like suicide squad makes close to a billion. and the system isn't like it was back when say heaven's gate killed off the western and the auteur film (and even then the failure was a rounding error for the company that owned united artists). plus that stuff happened before the age of merchandising. the only thing that'll kill them off is the death of movie theatres.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

DoubleCakes posted:

I've been predicting the crash of superhero films for the last five years and what keeps it afloat is that production companies are getting better at remixing the formula and finding new ways to reinvent the genre.

They just need to turn every hero into iron man and they can print money each time.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


DoubleCakes posted:

I've been predicting the crash of superhero films for the last five years and what keeps it afloat is that production companies are getting better at remixing the formula and finding new ways to reinvent the genre.

Same here and yet 2017 was a pretty amazing year for the subgenre. There were like, half a dozen different comic book movies in one year that were awesome showcases of creativity, skill, and innovation that set themselves apart from every other superhero movie.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

khwarezm posted:

Futurist types usually say that that would be solved by going into space but I'm doubtful you'd be able to move a large enough amount of people offworld quickly enough to avoid permanently damaging the biosphere, or even that many people would want to leave Earth. Even on the most wild scales there's a limited amount of resources in the galaxy so at some point I'd presume these crazy advanced immortal humans would just stop reproducing.

Then there's the problem of being unable to get anywhere outside, or even inside the solar system in a decent amount of time. Space travel stories all rely on the discovery of some magic technology that defies the known laws of physics. More realistically (lol), there are stories like the Fallout series, where one of the main themes was that the vaults were secretly rigged by the designers so that they'd serve as social experiments designed to test scenarios that could happen in the centuries of transit to another planet.

Getting back to impossible tech and space travel handwaving the overpopulation problem, the perfect example is Star Trek and the Federation, but even the post-scarcity utopia Gene Roddenberry wanted to portray is broken upon examination. Sure, the Federation claims to be enlightened but then you get things like a ruthless shadow government in the form of Section 31, the ever present need of rare items like dilithium crystals, the constant demand for establishing colonies, both as a means of spreading the population out to prevent overcrowding and as a way to trick unruly individualist citizens into risking their lives seeing if a new planet is safe for colonization or a horrible secret death world that will eventually kill settlers, and last, there's Starfleet, which is a lot like the colonies, either beneficial to the Federation or a means of culling the population by having them beam down to planets while wearing red shirts or joining the crew of a Miranda class starship.

It's kind of telling that the problem is so insurmountable that even in a fictional future that claims to be enlightened, traces of the problem still exist. Not to say we shouldn't be trying to find a better way, I'm just saying people need to think about their "wouldn't it be great if..." scenarios and stop putting the cart before the horse. In fact, if all the people shouting things like "end war" or "end hunger" worked toward addressing the problem of scarcity first we might actually get some progress toward the things they want done. Or, knowing the intellects of the people involved, we could just end up with more feel-good drivel like Downsizing, the rotten cherry on top of the poo poo sundae that was Paramount's lowest profiting year in two decades.

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?

DoubleCakes posted:

I've been predicting the crash of superhero films for the last five years and what keeps it afloat is that production companies are getting better at remixing the formula and finding new ways to reinvent the genre.

Thor: Ragnarok is, if you want to get intensely nitpicky, not a terribly great "superhero" movie. But it is a drat well enjoyable film and one of the most fun experiences I've had in theaters in a long time. Marvel started to figure out in Phase Two that if they move away from blanket "superhero" movies, they can do a lot better than if they all fall into the same genre.

Iron Man 3 is a buddy cop movie in the style of Shane Black's other greats like Lethal Weapon and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Winter Soldier is a spy thriller, Guardians of the Galaxy is a slapstick sci-fi adventure comedy (as is Ragnarok). Playing hard into the heroes' "shticks" has worked out really well for Marvel.

dmboogie
Oct 4, 2013

Zedd posted:

Todd in the Shadows | Patreon – Pop song reviews, retrospectives on one hit wonders and albums that changed a career for the worse. Also a pretty good piano player.

okay so i looked at the OP for the first time and

what did todd's piano do to you, thread :smith:

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

ricdesi posted:

Thor: Ragnarok is, if you want to get intensely nitpicky, not a terribly great "superhero" movie. But it is a drat well enjoyable film and one of the most fun experiences I've had in theaters in a long time. Marvel started to figure out in Phase Two that if they move away from blanket "superhero" movies, they can do a lot better than if they all fall into the same genre.

Iron Man 3 is a buddy cop movie in the style of Shane Black's other greats like Lethal Weapon and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Winter Soldier is a spy thriller, Guardians of the Galaxy is a slapstick sci-fi adventure comedy (as is Ragnarok). Playing hard into the heroes' "shticks" has worked out really well for Marvel.

Ragnarok is great because it's just a straight up comedy about superheroes.

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010
if we have to kill movie theatres to kill superhero films.... so be it.

DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015

DoubleToasted have some good takes on all this Kanye nonsense, including reminding everyone that Kanye will spout any drat platitude he can for attention.

GoneRampant
Aug 19, 2016

by FactsAreUseless
Barring their mainline X-men films ironically enough, Fox have actually proved that the superhero genre can be used to branch into other genres fairly easily. Logan is basically a Western, and Deadpool is a raunchy R-rated comedy (albeit Deadpool 2 will be the deciding factor in whether or not it was just a flash in the pan). New Mutants (if it doesn't get killed in the crib) might branch it out into the horror genre as well.

With stuff like that, and the MCU's own success with branching into other genres (Winter Soldier is basically the best MGS movie we'll ever get, Ant Man is a heist film, etc), it proves that the superhero genre has a ways to go before it gets stale when the right people are making them.

FoldableHuman
Mar 26, 2017

GoneRampant posted:

Barring their mainline X-men films ironically enough, Fox have actually proved that the superhero genre can be used to branch into other genres fairly easily. Logan is basically a Western, and Deadpool is a raunchy R-rated comedy (albeit Deadpool 2 will be the deciding factor in whether or not it was just a flash in the pan). New Mutants (if it doesn't get killed in the crib) might branch it out into the horror genre as well.

With stuff like that, and the MCU's own success with branching into other genres (Winter Soldier is basically the best MGS movie we'll ever get, Ant Man is a heist film, etc), it proves that the superhero genre has a ways to go before it gets stale when the right people are making them.

Fant4stic was an attempt at branching out into horror, but some combination of Fox being risk-averse and the movie still being awful led to the re-shot version we got.

stillvisions
Oct 15, 2014

I really should have come up with something better before spending five bucks on this.

Impermanent posted:

if we have to kill movie theatres to kill superhero films.... so be it.

I'm more leaning towards the RLM theory of superhero films killing theater films for anything but blockbusters or big cities that can afford "art house" specialty houses.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

stillvisions posted:

I'm more leaning towards the RLM theory of superhero films killing theater films for anything but blockbusters or big cities that can afford "art house" specialty houses.

This was true even before superhero films. Swelling budgets net big returns and then they start needing the big returns to satisfy the investors. There’s no more room for experimenting or mid-budget anything. Arguably, Spiderman and X-men were made in the first place under the hope that they would bring in a pre-existing audience like Brady Bunch or McHale’s Navy.

Weldon Pemberton
May 19, 2012

Puppy Time posted:

I played Earthbound for the first time a few months ago, and it's not really that hard. The only issue is that it's kind of grindy whenever you reach a new area.

You'll have to grind when you're doing the first boss (the biker gang dude) and a few others. That's it really. You will probably get wiped out once or twice if you lose focus while fighting an enemy like those exploding trees near Saturn Valley.

Is any JRPG super hard really, other than maybe Shin Megami Tensei and FF Tactics or Tactics Ogre? Legitimately hard to beat the game for reasons that aren't "lovely design", not that there's an optional boss somewhere that will murder you if you find it. That's a genuine question, I want to check them out if so.

DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015

most JRPGs have very small skill ceilings meaning that there isn't much to understand in terms of tactics and strategy before you are as effective as you can be and all you can do is grind to get more powerful. I'm playing Chrono Trigger right now and realizing how stupidly simple it is. Earthbound isn't that much better. What makes these games excellent in my eyes is all the stuff around the battles and its mechanics. Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, and many other JRPGs are best described as "adventure games with battles" which is good enough for most people, like myself, but makes experiencing the core of a JRPG's challenge-- the battles-- a chore.

I might do a video on it. I'm a huge defendant of JRPGs but I recognize their problems.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
The thing is, a lot of good jrpgs have fun and well-designed systems that can be completely ignored by grinding your way to victory.

Just look at FFVII and how most people didn't realize just how broken the Materia system is.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
I like pokemon

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I unironically love the SaGa series.

FoldableHuman
Mar 26, 2017

MonsieurChoc posted:

I unironically love the SaGa series.

The SaGa GameBoy games they rebranded as Final Fantasy were legit.

Vanderdeath
Oct 1, 2005

I will confess,
I love this cultured hell that tests my youth.



SaGa is a fantastic series and I hope the new one coming out later this year is a return to form.

FreezingInferno
Jul 15, 2010

THERE.
WILL.
BE.
NO.
BATTLE.
HERE!

MonsieurChoc posted:

I unironically love the SaGa series.

SaGa is genius because I feel that, at its heart, it's trying to replicate a lot of the random feel of playing an actual tabletop RPG in video game form. I have nothing but respect for Akitoshi Kawazu as a really hosed up DM with an equally hosed up campaign.

...Mind you, the only SaGa game I've beaten is the original one, and also this approach doesn't work at all with his directorial debut of Final Fantasy II, but I can dream.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


FoldableHuman posted:

The SaGa GameBoy games they rebranded as Final Fantasy were legit.

is it one of those where you kill god at the end and he's a lil amish fella?

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Arcsquad12 posted:

I like pokemon

My favorite JRPG is Halo 3

Conal Cochran
Dec 2, 2013

Why are people so excited about the idea of the superhero trend dying? I understand not really caring about the movies, but what about their mere existence bothers some so much.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


I think they're fantasizing about corporate blockbusters dying and people finally appreciating True Art as if after superheroes are gone people won't just find the Next Big Thing to run into the ground

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?

FoldableHuman posted:

Fant4stic was an attempt at branching out into horror, but some combination of Fox being risk-averse and the movie still being awful led to the re-shot version we got.

I wonder if that has anything to do with why New Mutants seems to keep waffling back and forth between whether it's a "true horror movie" or not? Honestly, if they went all-out with the genre jump, I think it would be preferable.

Conal Cochran posted:

Why are people so excited about the idea of the superhero trend dying? I understand not really caring about the movies, but what about their mere existence bothers some so much.

Because it's not cool for people to like things I don't like!

For real, though, it's a genre that is visibly wildly popular, appeals to kids and adults alike, and when used correctly serves more as a character trait as a foundation instead of an all-encompassing blob like the late '90s seemed to think it needed to be. The superhero "genre" is being executed far better now (in general) than it ever has before.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


uhh it's because the money would go elsewhere. not any of the things you said.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply