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oddium posted:whooooooaaaaaa i missed the dev diary last week where tribes can become hordes and i'm flipping out now aaaaaaaah three mountains.... hello 
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Apr 26, 2018 20:59
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Please add actual supply lines. Playing Commonwealth every war involves AI ally France chasing austrian/ottoman/muscovite/central asian armies yakety saxxing deep in the interior of eastern Europe, aided by tiny blanket sieging stacks from minors, while I just attack and siege my targets. The AI gets caught by France eventually and then has no chance of raising more troops because I’ll have occupied half their poo poo already. I tried actually defending but gently caress it’s too big and open out there and France has the exact same perfect movement as they do so it’s much easier to let them do it. Unless it’s an early game 1v1 war there is never anything like a cohesive theatre or theatres. Everywhere on the map is equally fair game and the AI gives 0 fucks for defending its territory which hugely exacerbates the tedium. 16th-century Austria’s reaction to “Poles take Vienna” should not be “let’s march our entire army to Minsk and hit their soft underbelly!” Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 26, 2018 |
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Apr 26, 2018 23:17
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The enemy's army is coming towards us to pillage our lands what shall we do sire? Quickly, we must take every soldier and
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Apr 26, 2018 23:43
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Please add actual supply lines. Playing Commonwealth every war involves AI ally France chasing austrian/ottoman/muscovite/central asian armies yakety saxxing deep in the interior of eastern Europe, aided by tiny blanket sieging stacks from minors, while I just attack and siege my targets. The AI gets caught by France eventually and then has no chance of raising more troops because I’ll have occupied half their poo poo already. I tried actually defending but gently caress it’s too big and open out there and France has the exact same perfect movement as they do so it’s much easier to let them do it. This feels like a good time to post Charles Minard's beautiful graph of the French Grande Armee heading to Russia, which has been called the "best statistical graphic ever drawn".  It covers:
 Anyway the point is supply is important. On the other hand sending 10k dudes to the Caribbean for like 80% of them to die horribly of tropical diseases might be really boring/annoying. I think HoI4's acclimatization might be useful here, maybe as a modifier for attrition and morale to prevent armies from going too far from home and normal climates. Edit: VVVVV Agreed entirely that strict realism would be bad, but also no restrictions is weird, too. JerikTelorian fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 26, 2018 23:45
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Actually Historically Realistic supply lines / attrition / etc. would probably not be super fun, but the game badly needs some better abstractions to simulate their effects it's pretty wacky that there are more restrictions on establishing your first trading post somewhere than there are on sending your entire army
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Apr 27, 2018 01:14
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I've always thought that the best way of abstracting supply lines would be for each army to have a "home" area and would cost more and suffer greater attrition the further they are from it, so you could have colonial armies and so on.
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Apr 27, 2018 03:13
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That would be good. Armies, especially European armies, lived off "the land" (i.e. plunder) in this period, really rigid supply lines are anachronistic until right at the end of the game. But it's dumb how easy it is to ship your entire nation's worth of troops halfway across the world with nearly no ill effects.
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Apr 27, 2018 03:17
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The problem is with reinforcing, which is something that should require a dedicated supply line. Plundering only kept armies from not starving to death, it didn't make men appear out of thin air.
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Apr 27, 2018 03:51
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Fister Roboto posted:The problem is with reinforcing, which is something that should require a dedicated supply line. Plundering only kept armies from not starving to death, it didn't make men appear out of thin air. I always assumed that was the generals using necromancy.
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Apr 27, 2018 04:01
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Maybe if reinforcing only works on owned territory? Or if being in enemy land gave a big malice to reinforcement rate.
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Apr 27, 2018 07:26
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Or if being in enemy land gave a big malice to reinforcement rate. It already does
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Apr 27, 2018 08:18
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It's only a 50% penalty so you're still instantly teleporting 50 dudes per regiment per month across the globe. That should cost a lot of mana. e: also your generals' maneuver skill makes them better at teleporting Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 08:40
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The entire world is casually kaballists and capable of fashioning golems from the land to replace their army. 
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Apr 27, 2018 12:26
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Hmm. Seems like the decision to form Russia has no particular religious requirement, am I correct? (Coptic Ottoman Russia world conquest?) (Holy Catholic
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Apr 27, 2018 15:40
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nvm
Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 18:56
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Maybe if reinforcing only works on owned territory? Or if being in enemy land gave a big malice to reinforcement rate. Armies not reinforcing in enemy territory could make for interesting decision to make, but it would be completely incompatible with the the game.
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Apr 27, 2018 21:23
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Fister Roboto posted:The problem is with reinforcing, which is something that should require a dedicated supply line. Plundering only kept armies from not starving to death, it didn't make men appear out of thin air. True, but it meant that wounded soldiers were kept alive and sometimes gat back in the line of duty. It's a thorny issue, no matter how you slice it. Too realistic, and it's no fun. Too silly, and you have Spanish armies zooming all the way across Russia and into China. Maybe make supply a distance radius centered around the largest owned/allied province nearby? Higher development provinces being able to supply bigger armies, and atrittion skyrocketing once you get out of range.
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Apr 27, 2018 21:51
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Groogy posted:It already does I just keep learning new things about this game.
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Apr 28, 2018 00:36
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appropriatemetaphor posted:I just keep learning new things about this game. According to the wiki: "The local reinforcement rate is 100% in owned provinces, 10% in uncolonized provinces, and 50% otherwise, be it a neutral, subject, ally, enemy, or occupied province." Additional reinforce modifiers add up then multiply with this (so +50% is 150% in home territory, 75% in occupied territory). Anyway, I feel like enemy/occupied territory needs a local reinforcement rate modifier of lower than 50%. But defenders already have a lot of advantages, so maybe that'd be too much of an additional one from a game balance perspective?
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Apr 28, 2018 01:57
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Groogy posted:It already does
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Apr 28, 2018 03:01
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Look, I have the perfect solution. You see, what we need is a new bar...
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Apr 28, 2018 04:01
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Dirk the Average posted:Look, I have the perfect solution.
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Apr 28, 2018 08:33
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Poil posted:Logisticeness, increases reinforcement rate outside your territory. Also I'm really curious how all the systems worked in older versions. What was trade like before it was just arrows, merchants, botes and some events?
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Apr 28, 2018 09:44
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It's incredible just how much less watchable the Dev Clash is without competent casters.
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Apr 28, 2018 15:01
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Is there any way to stop keep the dutch provinces from revolting over and over against my benevolent, humanist, French utopia?
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Apr 28, 2018 18:57
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wukkar posted:It's incredible just how much less watchable the Dev Clash is without competent casters. did those two lose an office bet or something? surely they could've dug up someone better
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Apr 28, 2018 19:13
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The Little Kielbasa posted:Is there any way to stop keep the dutch provinces from revolting over and over against my benevolent, humanist, French utopia? It's a special revolt. Either you culture convert them, or make sure your capital is in one of the Dutch provinces.
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Apr 28, 2018 19:35
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The Little Kielbasa posted:Is there any way to stop keep the dutch provinces from revolting over and over against my benevolent, humanist, French utopia? As above, plus they stop for good in 1650 iirc
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Apr 28, 2018 19:39
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Accepting the flemish and dutch cultures will make the event slower to fire. The events also stop firing at 1650. From what I can tell, if you have eight or more dutch or flemish provinces but you accept both cultures, then the MTTH is around 52 years, meaning that on average it will only trigger once? But it can trigger more if you're unlucky. If you don't accept those cultures, the MTTH is around 30, which means revolts up the wazoo. (source: https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Burgundian_events#Burgundian_events_regarding_Low_Countries - see the "Netherlands Declare Independence!" event)
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Apr 28, 2018 19:51
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Also I'm really curious how all the systems worked in older versions. What was trade like before it was just arrows, merchants, botes and some events? In EU3 it was kind of similar to what we have now, in that you had centers of trade that accumulated the trade value of the provinces and countries could send merchants to them to compete. The big differences were that COTs didn't interact with each other at all, so there was no flow of value from one to another, and also that COTs were dynamic. For 500 ducats you could set up a COT anywhere in your territory, and it would control the provinces within a certain area. The COT also would provide bonuses to the province it's in depending on the total trade value of the COT. The other big difference is the way that merchants work. You got a certain number of merchants per month, and for a fee you could send them to COTs to compete. Each COT had merchant 20 slots available, each representing 5% of the total trade value. When you send a merchant, they had to pass a placement check just to get in, and then if there are no empty slots available, a competition check to try to kick out another country's merchants. For all its faults, the current system is much better.
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Apr 28, 2018 19:58
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So I've run into a little snag in my quest to form Malaya, mainly that the last bit of land is connected to mainland Asia and the guy holding it is a tributary to Ming. Also he is allied to (only) Bengal, who have been really tearing it up and are around my size. On the upside I've mostly conquered/colonized the rest of the islands, I've got a North America colony and one in Central America (that isn't forming a new colony, not sure why) and just started a bit in Australia. Hit level 14 techs which are the production buildings for spices, so I have a strong income I can flex (+70 or so, don't have the game open atm). I could start sticking regimental camps in places, but I'm guessing I should be looking for some sort of edge to exploit to reduce the opponents. Is there a way to encourage the guy to try to break free from Ming?
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Apr 28, 2018 20:03
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No. China just sucks a lot. The only way to directly make a Chinese tributary stop being one is to diplo-vassalize it, or attack China itself. Though eventually if they grow too strong, China will revoke their tributary status.
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Apr 28, 2018 20:08
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Which would be modified by the local reinformentness, a function of your manpowerosity and now im in pain Fister Roboto posted:In EU3 it was kind of similar to what we have now, in that you had centers of trade that accumulated the trade value of the provinces and countries could send merchants to them to compete. The big differences were that COTs didn't interact with each other at all, so there was no flow of value from one to another, and also that COTs were dynamic. For 500 ducats you could set up a COT anywhere in your territory, and it would control the provinces within a certain area. The COT also would provide bonuses to the province it's in depending on the total trade value of the COT. The other big difference is the way that merchants work. You got a certain number of merchants per month, and for a fee you could send them to COTs to compete. Each COT had merchant 20 slots available, each representing 5% of the total trade value. When you send a merchant, they had to pass a placement check just to get in, and then if there are no empty slots available, a competition check to try to kick out another country's merchants. Basically, what it boiled down to was that you got a monthly trickle of the "merchant" resource that you spent by spamming CoTs with merchants until you've gotten as many merchants in as possible, while every other country was doing the same thing. Your merchants were constantly being kicked out so you had to constantly send in more merchants to replace them and kick out the competition. This process was complete and utter hell before it was automated. Then it was tolerable but still barely interactive with no real strategy or decision making involved. Just find the biggest CoTs and then auto-send your merchants there.  A screen of a lesser populated trade node (because it was the first one I found). Each row represents how many merchants a country has in the node. Imagine that, but with the bottom two rows full of countries desperately trying to compete with each other. The "monopoly" row is basically 6+ merchants, which unlocks with tech. Send more and more merchants until you've kicked out everyone. edit: Oh, and those ducats next to the send merchant button? Sending a merchant had a cost associated with it. It was entirely possible, if you weren't manually keeping track because the game didn't track this for you, to spend more in a node trying to compete in it than you actually earned in trade income. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 20:19
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it was even worse in eu2, where sending a merchant to a full node would not get you one but instead would knock off an existing merchant, so micro-managing the timing of your merchant sends was super-important
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Apr 28, 2018 20:29
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Sounds like getting rid of those mechanics was a great idea.
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Apr 28, 2018 21:16
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*On the topic of merchants* This is the worst thing that has ever happened to me. You were supposed to share equally 
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Apr 28, 2018 21:17
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ZypherIM posted:So I've run into a little snag in my quest to form Malaya, mainly that the last bit of land is connected to mainland Asia and the guy holding it is a tributary to Ming. Also he is allied to (only) Bengal, who have been really tearing it up and are around my size. Declare war on Bengal so Ming doesn't get involved, or ally with Ming, drag them into a separate war, then declare war on their tributary. These are the two most common options for dodging calls to arms, and it should work with tributaries. If you do the latter method, Ming will not lose their tributary status, so as soon as you end the separate war, the country you're attacking will be able to call them in (unless war score is at a certain level or a certain amount of time has passed. I dunno what the exact values are) Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 22:03
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Guess I'll look into getting some sort of CB onto Bengal. I often see people talk about running no CB wars, are they just saving up 300+ admin points to fix their stability or is there something I'm missing?
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Apr 28, 2018 22:58
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Generally don't run a no-cb war unless it's something really important like being able to claim a throne. With that said, if you have the extra admin then it's not the worst thing in the world. Not missing anything. Of course, for gimmick runs you usually have to no-cb due to claims and such. E: Should reiterate. It's also worth doing things like breaking truces for important things. Because the penalties are usually fixable with mana it can be worth it to do rarely. Rynoto fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 23:13
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Rynoto posted:Generally don't run a no-cb war unless it's something really important like being able to claim a throne. Claiming a throne is a CB though  But yeah in general try to get CBs when you can, but sometimes no CB is the way to go. You'll want the admin to fix your stability yeah, and diplo too unless you wanna tank the war exhaustion. You also get a chunk of aggressive expansion. That said it can be very much worth it sometimes. In my current Auld Alliance Reversed run, after I took over England I wasn't quite ready to take on my erstwhile ally France. I needed somewhere else to expand, and while I could fabricate on the Low Countries and nibble away at them, it was slow going due to the HRE. The Iberians were weak though, so I no-CBed my way into there and gobbled up most of the peninsula, gaining tons of development and no significant AE with anyone who mattered, which was absolutely worth spending a few points on stability and WE.
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Apr 29, 2018 01:45
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