Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2: Capt. Asshole Island

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Sylphosaurus: Sep 6, 2007

Despite Deadfire being only a few days off I apparently decided to give into my alt-itis and try to replay as a Rogue. The biggest problem I�ve had with the Rogues as a class is that you may have one of the highest single target damage potentials of the game but you also have jack poo poo for staying power. Could someone in this thread give me some pointers in how to play a Rogue smarter?

# ? May 1, 2018 08:43

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 14:29

Avalerion: Oct 19, 2012

Ignore that you are a rogue, pretend you are a fighter.

# ? May 1, 2018 08:57

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Solved the Supply and Demand issue by grabbing a Save Editor and screwing with the global for the Doemenel Bitter Squash Price value.

Sylphosaurus posted:

Despite Deadfire being only a few days off I apparently decided to give into my alt-itis and try to replay as a Rogue. The biggest problem I�ve had with the Rogues as a class is that you may have one of the highest single target damage potentials of the game but you also have jack poo poo for staying power. Could someone in this thread give me some pointers in how to play a Rogue smarter?

Dirty Fighting and Vicious Fighting give Rogues a consistently high damage output regardless of Sneak Attack. Couple that with a Paladin's Zealous Focus (plus Critical Focus) and your Rogue will be farting out crits regularly enough to compete with the sustained damage of a DPS. I personally prefer ranged Rogues (with buffed attack speed via the Chanter's Sure-Handed Illa verse) because building a Rogue for full Glass Cannon (Maxed out Might/Dex/Perception and tanking Constitution) has paid some pretty serious dividends for me in previous runs:

The build that I use is here.

# ? May 1, 2018 09:01

Shirkelton: Apr 6, 2009; I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Kind of dimly excited to go into this almost entirely blind, but I'm worried I'm going to import my character and it will suck poo poo now.

# ? May 1, 2018 09:49

Mr. Baps: Apr 16, 2008; Yo ho?

Dan Didio posted:

Kind of dimly excited to go into this almost entirely blind, but I'm worried I'm going to import my character and it will suck poo poo now.

Good news! You're rebuilding your character from the ground up even if you import.

# ? May 1, 2018 09:55

Avalerion: Oct 19, 2012

How does respeccing work in regards to multiclassing - can I make Eder a fighter then fighter rogue later? Also can you respec out of kits?

# ? May 1, 2018 09:59

Sylphosaurus: Sep 6, 2007

Kith posted:

Dirty Fighting and Vicious Fighting give Rogues a consistently high damage output regardless of Sneak Attack. Couple that with a Paladin's Zealous Focus (plus Critical Focus) and your Rogue will be farting out crits regularly enough to compete with the sustained damage of a DPS. I personally prefer ranged Rogues (with buffed attack speed via the Chanter's Sure-Handed Illa verse) because building a Rogue for full Glass Cannon (Maxed out Might/Dex/Perception and tanking Constitution) has paid some pretty serious dividends for me in previous runs:

The build that I use is here.

I have to say that your build looks pretty fun and with the ruffian specialization you can always go dual sabers if you end up in a furball.

# ? May 1, 2018 10:14

TEENAGE WITCH: Jul 20, 2008; NAH LAD

lmao fenstermaker responded to the avellone interview

from eric posted:

I don�t like discussing anything remotely negative about coworkers in the press. No one comes out looking worse than you when you do that. But here, I think I need to get more detailed than I would want to in order to clear something up.

To the suggestion that Josh �interfered� in the process involving cutting down Durance and the Grieving Mother, everything he did was professional and warranted by the circumstances. The budget on those companions was blown, not just a little but a lot. Very late in development. They were unimplementable in the time we had, and the company had promised them to the Kickstarter backers. So while I�d have preferred to have just worked it out between myself and Chris, at that point in production it was unfortunately not what the situation called for. A high-level decision needed to be made, so more people had to be looped in.

The interview characterizes ownership as having gotten worked up over something they didn�t know the specifics of, and I won�t speak for them, but if I were in their shoes, faced with this development, I would have been concerned. None of the potential outcomes looked rosy.

It�s been thrown around that objectionable subject matter was the reason behind the cuts. Sexual violence is dealt with elsewhere in the game, and there is swearing all over the place. So there was no looming censor. I don�t want to get into criticism here, but there were some choices that Chris made later in the writing that I thought bore more consideration, and in better circumstances if we�d been able to keep the thread, I�d have liked to discuss a different approach in some specific places. I believe it would have been possible without altering their story or defanging the material. It ended up being beside the point � the easiest cuts to make by far involved that story thread, and so it was left on the cutting room floor.

I did have a role in things turning out this way and I did apologize to Chris for it. I gave far too little oversight, thinking that a set of constraints and approval of an initial design, with periodic email check-ins would be sufficient. Chris was often offsite, I was swamped, and it was all too easy to backburner communication. I thought more regular feedback would only have been a hindrance to someone who�d made a lot of his reputation off of so many well-liked companions. If I had caught the issue sooner, we could have made the cuts sooner, in a much better context, and in that regard I should have done better. He did put genuine effort into the creative aspect, and that made the outcome that much more regrettable. I don�t know what Chris thinks about his own responsibilities and missteps in the matter, but I hope he recognizes them.

The PoE story was approved by management not because of poor judgment but because it was time to say �good enough� and hope for the best. We had something that was a completed draft that incorporated many of the best elements from previous pitches. As a place to start, it was workable. An independent developer can only pay its employees to spin their wheels with nothing to work on for so long. I suspect that the story wasn�t far off from something that was more deeply satisfying, so I don�t think it was a bad bet to make, even if the end result was flawed. Sometimes in development, we get the story figured out well in advance, sometimes it doesn�t work out that way. Here, it didn�t.

There�s kind of a strange insinuation in the interview that maybe I got a bad employee review because of the PoE story (?), and the phrasing almost seems to imply that this might have been related to my departure. I didn�t and it wasn�t. I always found Obsidian to be forgiving of mistakes as long as you were earnest in your efforts to learn from them, and I tried to be that. I appreciate the owners and my managers bearing with me.

Chris�s experience with Obsidian is his own. But it�s just that, one experience, filtered through a particular point of view, selective in its memory, and biased by its nature. So is mine. No one perspective should be taken for gospel. Me, I liked it there, enough to stay for more than a decade, and I wasn�t without more lucrative options. Good people ran the place. Good people (besides a few genuine personality disorder sufferers) worked there when I was there. Josh was a good director, the owners were good owners. I strongly disagreed with them many times, but it was never because they were coming from a place of bad intentions. Everyone�s just trying to navigate an insanely difficult and stressful business, and for that alone I think you have to approach the profession with a lot of forgiveness in your heart.
There were a lot of other corrections I wanted to make or explanations I wanted to give about this or that, but looking at it now, I don�t think they�re important in the scheme of things.

# ? May 1, 2018 11:28

Milli: Sep 28, 2009; friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

man stop posting about this so rope kid can post in here freely without tiptoeing around it, I wanna hear more about the ttrpg

(I'm a hypocrite I love this gossip)

# ? May 1, 2018 11:36

Lt. Danger: Dec 22, 2006; jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun

Nasgate posted:

Only surviving member of the Godhammer that still hasn't died despite there being literally no reason for Magran to let him live, and many reasons for almost all the gods to want him dead.

A cipher that can mind control a whole village and can remain unknown to Thaos, but magically not to the MC.

Sure, not traditional Mary Sues but I'm not sure what other common term fits how stupid they are as characters. Especially since everything is delivered via those walls of text that make Tolkein look riveting.

A floating, wisecracking skull that constantly interjects to explain everything to you/make salacious comments about the women you meet, that is uniquely free-willed unlike all the other talking skulls in the universe, that has a kidnapping sidequest and a major confrontation with a critical path NPC, AND it turns out there's this subplot where he's actually known you all along and totally had loads of adventures with you and other party members in the past?

A stoic loner who discovered a terrible secret about his people's religion that undermines everything they believe, who ended up destroying his home city and becoming the sole survivor only because he agreed to a dark deal with a mysterious stranger, who has a wicked sick shapeshifting sword you can't have but also he can totally cast spells and there's this massive sidequest in which you learn all about his religion and it takes up like 90% of the game?

A 'half-angel' (ugh) with black eyes, white hair and wings who got kicked out of heaven because she was more moral than her god, who's on a crusade to destroy hell because nobody else will do it, even though it cost her her family, and also she's really pretty and nice and innocent?

# ? May 1, 2018 11:48

Lt. Danger: Dec 22, 2006; jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun

Lt. Danger posted:

A floating, wisecracking skull that constantly interjects to explain everything to you/make salacious comments about the women you meet, that is uniquely free-willed unlike all the other talking skulls in the universe, that has a kidnapping sidequest and a major confrontation with a critical path NPC, AND it turns out there's this subplot where he's actually known you all along and totally had loads of adventures with you and other party members in the past?

A stoic loner who discovered a terrible secret about his people's religion that undermines everything they believe, who ended up destroying his home city and becoming the sole survivor only because he agreed to a dark deal with a mysterious stranger, who has a wicked sick shapeshifting sword you can't have but also he can totally cast spells and there's this massive sidequest in which you learn all about his religion and it takes up like 90% of the game?

A 'half-angel' (ugh) with black eyes, white hair and wings who got kicked out of heaven because she was more moral than her god, who's on a crusade to destroy hell because nobody else will do it, even though it cost her her family, and also she's really pretty and nice and innocent?

A whacky protocol droid, who unlike all the other boring protocol droids, actually LOVES killing and violence and he has this dumb dialogue gimmick that overstays its welcome, oh and he's also the former right-hand assassin of the main BAD GUY

The plucky sidekick girl you grew up with turns out to totally be a DEMIGOD and has this big old storyline about how she's SAD and BROKEN now because she got tortured, but she's still so pure and good that she can resist the divine taint, and also now she's a WIZARD out of nowhere and she has loving PINK HAIR too

An elf who's BALD and does MAGIC on his own UNLIKE EVERYONE ELSE and SECRETLY HE'S THE BAD GUY ALL ALONG

# ? May 1, 2018 11:51

Fair Bear Maiden: Jun 17, 2013

IMO it's good that there's variety in Pillars' roster and that some characters have high aspirations and direct connections to the Gods while others are in the party for small, intimate pursuits.

There are definitely a lot of narrative flaws in the game and you can make a case that the companion writing isn't compelling, I suppose, but *that* is not a flaw.

# ? May 1, 2018 11:57

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

It's the least surprising thing in the world that Avellone ran to the Codex crying about how mean Obsidian was to him. Such a petty shithead.

# ? May 1, 2018 12:28

Chairchucker: Nov 14, 2006; to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

I mean, I don't think that's an accurate read on the situation either

# ? May 1, 2018 12:29

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

TEENAGE WITCH posted:

lmao fenstermaker responded to the avellone interview

he sounds like Eder even in print

except, like, less racist

# ? May 1, 2018 13:12

Count Uvula: Dec 20, 2011; ---

How dare the coward, Chris Avellone, tattoo the words "FEARGUS URQUEHART MUST DIE" on to his neck. Not surprising he would do such a thing, but truly there is no clearer indication of his obsessive hatred for Obsidian.

# ? May 1, 2018 13:32

rope kid: Feb 3, 2001; Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Milli posted:

I wanna hear more about the ttrpg

What do you want to know?

# ? May 1, 2018 14:20

Blockhouse: Sep 7, 2014; You Win!

It's me I'm the guy who has thought Avellone has sucked for years,

Well okay that's a little too strong. The guy can turn in spectacular work but there's massive blind spots where he dips into the same well again and again and I feel like the older I get and the more of his games I play the less patience I have for it.

Like others have said I think the only thing that makes Durance remotely tolerable is that all the other characters seem fully aware he's a shithead, but I have no doubt in my mind that was the work of every writer in the game other than Avellone because Durance is the exact type of rear end in a top hat who stands around moralizing and telling you Everything You Believe Is Wrong that he loves to put in every loving thing he can. It's the same note played over and over with minor variations (replace "space objectivist" with "fantasy misognyist") and wish he would get away from it. On the other hand I guess that's exactly what the backers paid for, so mission accomplished?

I have zero opinion on GM which I don't think is unusual.

Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 14:28 on May 1, 2018

# ? May 1, 2018 14:25

Enigmatic Cakelord: Jun 16, 2006; ASARI EYEBROWS

rope kid posted:

What do you want to know?

I submitted a question to your Q&A thing, but I'll ask here as the TTRPG is good place to make a definitive statement. What is the nature of healing magic now? Like, does health represent cuts and minor flesh wounds or is assumed you are never bloodied until you receive a "wound"?

# ? May 1, 2018 14:30

Octo1: May 7, 2009

are we there yet?

# ? May 1, 2018 14:33

rope kid: Feb 3, 2001; Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Enigmatic Cakelord posted:

I submitted a question to your Q&A thing, but I'll ask here as the TTRPG is good place to make a definitive statement. What is the nature of healing magic now? Like, does health represent cuts and minor flesh wounds or is assumed you are never bloodied until you receive a "wound"?

To the extent that it exists in the TTRPG, healing magic focuses on three things: 1) allowing the wounded character to temporarily ignore the penalties of a wound 2) temporarily preventing a wound from worsening 3) alleviating fatigue, which can be acquired in various ways, but typically as a result of a hit being downgraded into fatigue (as opposed to becoming a wound).

"Health" doesn't exist in the TTRPG. Characters acquire individual wounds that have a cumulative malus on all skill rolls.

# ? May 1, 2018 14:41

Your Parents: Jul 19, 2017; by R. Guyovich

ProfessorCirno posted:

While Pillars 1 had it's missteps (count me as another who thought "the Watcher is losing their mind!" was not presented practically at all), White March was way better paced in almost every respect, so there's a good amount to hope for.

Also Zahua loving rules and I hope the incoming new NPCs are just as good.

"Are... Are you real?"

[Lie] "Yes."

is one of the best lines in an RPG.

# ? May 1, 2018 14:45

Milli: Sep 28, 2009; friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

rope kid posted:

What do you want to know?

Nothing specific, I'm just really enjoying seeing what you're posting on twitter. I saw someone asking about your inspirations and I have literally no experience outside of 4/5e D&D so your listed systems mean nothing to me. However, it looks dense and involved as gently caress and more than anything I'm looking forward to the starter guide so I can dive in and understand what the hell literally any of this means.

That said, I have no idea who will attempt this game with me, as the only other person in my friend group who played PoE is very meh at the idea of a tabletop version :shrug:

# ? May 1, 2018 14:48

mbt: Aug 13, 2012

rope kid posted:

To the extent that it exists in the TTRPG, healing magic focuses on three things: 1) allowing the wounded character to temporarily ignore the penalties of a wound 2) temporarily preventing a wound from worsening 3) alleviating fatigue, which can be acquired in various ways, but typically as a result of a hit being downgraded into fatigue (as opposed to becoming a wound).

"Health" doesn't exist in the TTRPG. Characters acquire individual wounds that have a cumulative malus on all skill rolls.

if health doesn't exist what do characters gain as they level? the ability to take on more wounds without collapsing? if wounds are specific conditions does that mean a level 1 character can have a head cold and a broken arm, but a level 2 character can have a head cold, a broken arm, and a stubbed toe?

# ? May 1, 2018 14:48

chaosapiant: Oct 10, 2012; White Line Fever

rope kid posted:

"Health" doesn't exist in the TTRPG. Characters acquire individual wounds that have a cumulative malus on all skill rolls.

This system sounds intriguing and I'd be interested in seeing this implemented in the PC game. The idea that your health isn't a pool of points, and injuries becoming a growing collection of penalties that outweigh your benefits in combat until finally you're sitting on the sidelines. Man I want to see this in action now!

# ? May 1, 2018 14:49

Shirkelton: Apr 6, 2009; I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Walrus Pete posted:

Good news! You're rebuilding your character from the ground up even if you import.

No, I know that, I'm just hoping that with the addition of multiclassing and whatever changes have been made to the sytems, the basic idea of the character will be as effective.

# ? May 1, 2018 14:58

Your Parents: Jul 19, 2017; by R. Guyovich

rope kid posted:

To the extent that it exists in the TTRPG, healing magic focuses on three things: 1) allowing the wounded character to temporarily ignore the penalties of a wound 2) temporarily preventing a wound from worsening 3) alleviating fatigue, which can be acquired in various ways, but typically as a result of a hit being downgraded into fatigue (as opposed to becoming a wound).

"Health" doesn't exist in the TTRPG. Characters acquire individual wounds that have a cumulative malus on all skill rolls.

Pillars my rear end, this is just ars magica with long hair.

# ? May 1, 2018 14:59

rope kid: Feb 3, 2001; Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:

if health doesn't exist what do characters gain as they level? the ability to take on more wounds without collapsing? if wounds are specific conditions does that mean a level 1 character can have a head cold and a broken arm, but a level 2 character can have a head cold, a broken arm, and a stubbed toe?

Characters don't have levels. Character advancement happens primarily through the acquisition of skills, powers, and traits.

An experienced character can't be hurt more than a less experienced one (though they may have powers to shrug off the effects of wounds more easily). An experienced character is less likely to be wounded in the first place.

Your Parents posted:

Pillars my rear end, this is just ars magica with long hair.

I've been very open that AM, Burning Wheel, and Gumshoe provide a big chunk of the inspiration for the system's mechanics.

E: Except that AM doesn't use Soak to translate wounds into fatigue. Soak is absolute, which is one of several places where AM5's combat mechanics fall down. It's incredibly easy to stack Soak and become impervious to physical damage.

rope kid fucked around with this message at 15:11 on May 1, 2018

# ? May 1, 2018 15:02

Your Parents: Jul 19, 2017; by R. Guyovich

Will magic and mundane abilities use the same xp scale?

# ? May 1, 2018 15:02

rope kid: Feb 3, 2001; Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Soul skills use the same XP scale as other skills, but the significance of the rank of a soul skill is not the same as it is for other skills because a soul skill rank is used to access powers. Soul skills are normalized against each other. So if you put 50xp into advancing Arcana, you should feel that what you get out of it is in the ballpark of 50xp in Discipline.

# ? May 1, 2018 15:10

2house2fly: Nov 14, 2012; You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

rope kid posted:

Characters don't have levels.

Paging Lt Danger, Lt Danger to the Pillars Of Eternity thread

# ? May 1, 2018 15:25

Basic Chunnel: Sep 21, 2010; Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!

rope kid posted:

What do you want to know?

Personally I�m interested in the backgrounds u posted to twitter. You�ve got something called an �edge� as a bonus and also straight die rolls, was wondering if u could expand on that thinking.

Also found it curious that despite the typical depiction of Aedyr - Readceras / Dyrwood relations, Aedyrans get extra bonus on some speech-style checks against them. Wouldn�t they get penalties? Dyrwoodans are shown as provincial / quick tempered / resentful / American, hard to imagine a great many circumstances where Aedyrans come out on top in those situations

# ? May 1, 2018 15:26

Basic Chunnel: Sep 21, 2010; Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!

Milli posted:

That said, I have no idea who will attempt this game with me, as the only other person in my friend group who played PoE is very meh at the idea of a tabletop version

As soon as a draft of the rules hits the open net there will be more than likely be some people organizing Discord / Tabletop Sim rest games over in the traditional games forum

# ? May 1, 2018 15:30

CottonWolf: Jul 20, 2012; Good ideas generator

How different/similar are the systems underlying stabbing vs. say magic or chants?

# ? May 1, 2018 15:54

rope kid: Feb 3, 2001; Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Basic Chunnel posted:

Personally I�m interested in the backgrounds u posted to twitter. You�ve got something called an �edge� as a bonus and also straight die rolls, was wondering if u could expand on that thinking.

Also found it curious that despite the typical depiction of Aedyr - Readceras / Dyrwood relations, Aedyrans get extra bonus on some speech-style checks against them. Wouldn�t they get penalties? Dyrwoodans are shown as provincial / quick tempered / resentful / American, hard to imagine a great many circumstances where Aedyrans come out on top in those situations

An Edge is like a Call-On in Burning Wheel. It allows you to win ties or re-roll and can be invoked after the initial roll has been made/result has been declared.

A Bonus Die is always a d4, added to the 2d10.

The Culture bonuses are all first pass. The thinking with the Aedyran bonuses is that, in spite of the resentment Reacerans and (especially) Dyrwoodans feel toward Aedyr, they tend to find Aedyrans charming.

# ? May 1, 2018 16:44

Your Parents: Jul 19, 2017; by R. Guyovich

rope kid posted:

Characters don't have levels. Character advancement happens primarily through the acquisition of skills, powers, and traits.

An experienced character can't be hurt more than a less experienced one (though they may have powers to shrug off the effects of wounds more easily). An experienced character is less likely to be wounded in the first place.

I've been very open that AM, Burning Wheel, and Gumshoe provide a big chunk of the inspiration for the system's mechanics.

E: Except that AM doesn't use Soak to translate wounds into fatigue. Soak is absolute, which is one of several places where AM5's combat mechanics fall down. It's incredibly easy to stack Soak and become impervious to physical damage.

stacking soak was the most broken thing ive done personally in ars play to the point that the character was killed off as soon as it fit the narrative. rip bialas.

Your Parents fucked around with this message at 17:12 on May 1, 2018

# ? May 1, 2018 17:10

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Milli posted:

man stop posting about this so rope kid can post in here freely without tiptoeing around it, I wanna hear more about the ttrpg

(I'm a hypocrite I love this gossip)

I'm kinda surprised at how little talk there's been about the hot pommel on pommel action in the latest backer video

# ? May 1, 2018 17:10

Impermanent: Apr 1, 2010

rope kid posted:

What do you want to know?

How much room is there for specialization or customization within the context of "melee fighter, not reliant on magical abilities." Could I specialize in spears or whips or warhammers and have that be represented mechanically by the game? Is there a reason for a fighter to pick a spear vs. a a mace vs. a greatsword beyond damage type?

# ? May 1, 2018 17:17

En Garde Motherfuckers: Apr 29, 2009; Hey. Is it just me, or do my balls itch?

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I'm kinda surprised at how little talk there's been about the hot pommel on pommel action in the latest backer video

Buncha cowards in here who won't admit they love loot enough to kiss it

# ? May 1, 2018 17:17

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 14:29

Airfoil: Sep 10, 2013; I'm a rocket man

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I'm kinda surprised at how little talk there's been about the hot pommel on pommel action in the latest backer video

I'm not sure anyone knows how to address the sexual advances of a sword.

# ? May 1, 2018 17:18

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