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I do not think that yeah, hence why I said it. I also dont see people upset about Magneto whose villian origin is literally tied to the holocaust. Including a comic were he literally puts people in concentration camps.
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May 1, 2018 22:46
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Eldians wear armbands to prevent them from passing as Marleyans. It's meant to keep them contained in their ghetto where everyone can find them and prevent race mixing. For the Marleyan government it would be bad - their control over the Eldians depends of keeping them disliked and separated from the rest of their population. It's not that the armbands are a Holocaust reference, it's that Marley pretty much is Nazi Germany before it started to straight out kill their minorities.
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May 1, 2018 23:14
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That isn’t something only they did. Keeping a minority population separate has been a thing and in the case of the US still is a thing.
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May 1, 2018 23:18
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The Nazi Germany analogy gets a little hamfisted when you use armbands, but I don't think the story has really crossed any lines. As is usually the case in this kind of story, the Nazis are the bad guys, and the heroes of the story doing some bad poo poo doesn't change that, it's just supposed to remind you that war is bad.
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May 2, 2018 00:12
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Eiba posted:"Imprisoned population" is a vague enough reference that it's fine. Walls around a city aren't holocaust imagery. Arm bands with stars on them is a bit different. Walls around a city don't signify a ghetto, but walls around a city that it's inhabitants cannot ever cross without forfeiting their lives, does. And once you have a story that takes place within a ghetto (albeit, a fantastic ghetto the size of a state ) about the massacre of it's (specifically denoted) mono-ethnic population by the forces that caged them, then the situation can be compared to the holocaust.
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May 2, 2018 00:34
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I might get some hate for this opinion, but I like watching the big titans hit each other a lot and break buildings.
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May 2, 2018 00:52
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tweet my meat posted:I might get some hate for this opinion, but I like watching the big titans hit each other a lot and break buildings. 
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May 2, 2018 01:10
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I've been saying the holocaust was bad before it was a cool thing to say
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May 2, 2018 04:01
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Schwarzwald posted:Walls around a city don't signify a ghetto, but walls around a city that it's inhabitants cannot ever cross without forfeiting their lives, does. And once you have a story that takes place within a ghetto (albeit, a fantastic ghetto the size of a state ) about the massacre of it's (specifically denoted) mono-ethnic population by the forces that caged them, then the situation can be compared to the holocaust. JahRoo posted:The Nazi Germany analogy gets a little hamfisted when you use armbands, but I don't think the story has really crossed any lines. As is usually the case in this kind of story, the Nazis are the bad guys, and the heroes of the story doing some bad poo poo doesn't change that, it's just supposed to remind you that war is bad. But you really don't see a difference between situational similarities and literal arm bands with stars on them to mark an ethnic group? Like, I poorly worded my earlier post and I want to emphasize I'm not saying one's okay and one's not okay... but they're very different things is all. Pre-Marley, back in Chapter 1, who are the Nazis? The Titans? We don't even learn that they could possibly be people until well into the manga. Are zombies a well known stand in for Nazis? That's a new one on me. You could make a reading that their world in chapter 1 is essentially a ghetto, but it would very much be a reading, and not blatant historical reference like the armbands.
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May 2, 2018 04:19
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You could explain what the difference is, because I don’t see it outside pedantry.
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May 2, 2018 04:24
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CharlestheHammer posted:You could explain what the difference is, because I don’t see it outside pedantry. To clarify, because this seems kind of insane to me that it's a difficult concept, we're talking about a walled town besieged by zombies and saying "that's a holocaust reference" vs seeing an ethnic group's living area being walled off from the rest of the population and giving them an arm band with a star on it for identification and saying "that's a holocaust reference." Right? Are we talking about something else? In my mind chapter one did not reference the holocaust. The Marly stuff blatantly referenced the holocaust. Is this a point of contention? Edit: To further clarify, I'm essentially still responding to this post: Schwarzwald posted:Something important to note here is that the ghetto and holocaust imagery has been a part of the story since chapter one. The most the can be said about the Marley chapters is that they made explicit what had be implicit from the start.  because the initial premise of being besieged by monsters was not in any way "holocaust imagery." Not even implicitly.
Eiba fucked around with this message at 04:41 on May 2, 2018 |
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May 2, 2018 04:34
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Maybe the true Holocaust was the friends we made along the way
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May 2, 2018 04:38
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U-DO Burger posted:Maybe the true Holocaust was the friends we ate along the way
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May 2, 2018 05:32
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If only they were badges instead of armbands. Then we'd never have to post over this.
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May 2, 2018 06:08
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I remember a lot of people speculating "what if the walls were to keep people in" in the pre-basement days but that's pretty much it. Other than the characters all having German names and the society being militaristic, the connection to nazi Germany was non-existant.
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May 2, 2018 08:27
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I kinda feel like people just want to call it fascist because it's Japanese and has a military in it, even if the series is entirely about characters fighting for freedom from oppression and the destruction of any system that exists to keep them imprisoned and under the thumb of those who would either enslave them or wipe them from the earth. The main character's entire superpower is based around his desire for freedom, for god's sake. People on the internet just like to make up things to be superior about rather than spend that time confronting real problems, big surprise.
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May 2, 2018 08:38
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Eiba posted:Edit: Last night I started wondering if I had misremembered how the series was in the beginning so I reread the first few volumes...and it turned out I misremembered how the series was in the beginning. You were right, and I pretty heavily over stated how implicit it was.
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May 2, 2018 16:13
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There's 24 episodes in the next season? Hard to say how could they even fill that with 18 chapters with the royal family and 16 for the attack on the wall/basement journey. I could seem them stretch the royal family part or somehow cram all that into those episodes. I'm kinda interested to see if people stick with the royal family arc for how much it shifts from fighting titans to more of a fighting humans plot.
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May 2, 2018 18:34
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Tenzarin posted:There's 24 episodes in the next season? Hard to say how could they even fill that with 18 chapters with the royal family and 16 for the attack on the wall/basement journey. I could seem them stretch the royal family part or somehow cram all that into those episodes. I'm kinda interested to see if people stick with the royal family arc for how much it shifts from fighting titans to more of a fighting humans plot. We're going all the way to the sea, my friend. That's 39-40 chapters.
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May 2, 2018 18:37
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Personally I stopped reading chapter to chapter during the uprising arc for that reason, and only started reading again partway through return to shinganshina. I do think that weekly episodes will be easier to keep viewers interested than a monthly series where you're liable to just forget about it if the last chapter was a dud. For similar reasons, I think it's really important that the anime make it all the way to shinganshina to avoid losing viewers in the off-season. If people watch the titan show, and get no titans for a full 24 episodes, I can see that turning a bunch of people away from season 4.
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May 2, 2018 18:40
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ChairMaster posted:I kinda feel like people just want to call it fascist because it's Japanese and has a military in it, even if the series is entirely about characters fighting for freedom from oppression and the destruction of any system that exists to keep them imprisoned and under the thumb of those who would either enslave them or wipe them from the earth. The main character's entire superpower is based around his desire for freedom, for god's sake. This might surprise you, but fascists believe they're fighting for freedom too. They believe they're under attack by (((the enemy))) and have to fight back in any way possible. That's like fascism 101.
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May 2, 2018 20:44
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Chapter 105 title: Assassin's Bullet
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May 2, 2018 20:52
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Sub Harrison posted:Chapter 105 title: Assassin's Bullet why isayama why
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May 2, 2018 20:56
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Fister Roboto posted:This might surprise you, but fascists believe they're fighting for freedom too. They believe they're under attack by (((the enemy))) and have to fight back in any way possible. That's like fascism 101. Sure but if delusional fascists want to read a manga with a very clear nazi analog and decide that they are in fact not those guys, that's their problem.
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May 2, 2018 21:00
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Fister Roboto posted:This might surprise you, but fascists believe they're fighting for freedom too. They believe they're under attack by (((the enemy))) and have to fight back in any way possible. That's like fascism 101. "When u really think about it fascists and perpetrators of genocide are actually justified because they're scared of minorities" Sure, dude. I'll give you a hint here, we executed the nazis who thought they were doing the right thing, and we executed the nazis who were just following orders.
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May 2, 2018 21:17
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Everyone believes they are the good guy so I’m not sure what point you were trying to make
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May 2, 2018 21:23
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So... you're saying genocide isn't inherently bad? In what world does someone's motivations for their actions matter more than the results, especially when their actions are literal crimes against humanity? This is where stereotypes about manchildren watching anime come from, you know. It's people with the minds of children trying to explain why it's wrong to try to fight against genocide as long as the people doing the genocide are sufficiently brainwashed.
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May 2, 2018 21:36
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ChairMaster posted:So... you're saying genocide isn't inherently bad? In what world does someone's motivations for their actions matter more than the results, especially when their actions are literal crimes against humanity? Not you. The guy that thought it was a revelation that fascist don’t consider themselves the villians.
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May 2, 2018 21:43
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Oh, that makes more sense.
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May 2, 2018 21:47
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ChairMaster posted:"When u really think about it fascists and perpetrators of genocide are actually justified because they're scared of minorities" Where the gently caress did I say they were justified you absolute moron?
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May 2, 2018 21:58
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CharlestheHammer posted:Everyone believes they are the good guy so I’m not sure what point you were trying to make The point I was trying to make is that saying you're fighting for freedom doesn't make you not fascist.
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May 2, 2018 22:00
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I suggest you complete your thoughts and posts if you don't want other people to complete them for you.
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May 2, 2018 22:10
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Maybe you shouldn't make things up to feel superior about.
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May 2, 2018 22:21
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Sub Harrison posted:Chapter 105 title: Assassin's Bullet  Noooo
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May 2, 2018 22:25
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Fister Roboto posted:Maybe you shouldn't make things up to feel superior about. Dude, it's just that you came very close to saying "actually, maybe the SJWs are the true fascists". There's a difference between stated mission and reality, and you seem to be mistaking one for the other in that post. I think it's kinda unarguable that Paradis Island is a shithole and the Eldians are legit hosed.
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May 2, 2018 22:25
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PaganGoatPants posted:
Jean nooooo
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May 2, 2018 22:31
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Dias posted:Dude, it's just that you came very close to saying "actually, maybe the SJWs are the true fascists". There's a difference between stated mission and reality, and you seem to be mistaking one for the other in that post. I think it's kinda unarguable that Paradis Island is a shithole and the Eldians are legit hosed. I'm really sorry if it came across that way, that was definitely not what I intended to say. The person I was responding to seemed to be naively saying that someone who claims to be fighting for freedom can't be fascist, and I pointed out that was wrong, because "fighting for freedom" is the number one justification that fascists use. I thought that I was being pretty clear about that, but I guess I was wrong.
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May 2, 2018 22:33
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CharlestheHammer posted:Jean nooooo according to the leak I saw it's worse than Jean
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May 3, 2018 01:49
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ATP_Power posted:according to the leak I saw it's worse than Jean That’s not hard to accomplish
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May 3, 2018 02:01
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm really sorry if it came across that way, that was definitely not what I intended to say. The person I was responding to seemed to be naively saying that someone who claims to be fighting for freedom can't be fascist, and I pointed out that was wrong, because "fighting for freedom" is the number one justification that fascists use. I thought that I was being pretty clear about that, but I guess I was wrong. He didnt say they claimed, he said they were. like we have seen the characters from the beginning, and have a window into their thoughts. they are not just "claiming" stuff
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May 3, 2018 04:27
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