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STAC Goat posted:It was definitely a mistake of Michael to throw a vote at Wendell instead of Laurell. I suppose its possible (maybe even likely) Kellyn just didn't tell him she was gonna vote for Laurel and he couldn't have known about the extra vote that would have sent her home but he should have made that the play because it was the path of least resistance. Its not a massive, inexcusable mistake but it happened. I know it doesn’t work that way because people are emotional creatures, but Jenna cannot justifiably be mad at Donathan when she was gonna snake him.
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May 3, 2018 06:30
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garthoneeye posted:I know it doesn’t work that way because people are emotional creatures, but Jenna cannot justifiably be mad at Donathan when she was gonna snake him. That's true, but as you said people aren't strictly rational. And from Donathan's perspective he doesn't know Jenna is snaking him, so he's just making the choice to offer her a lifeline unprompted and then not follow through. Jenna could see the big picture and be "don't hate the player" or she could be bitter. Its not a fatal mistake or anything, nor was it a good idea or something he SHOULD have done. But its definitely not good jury management. Like I said, it felt like the kind of emotionally scattered way Tai would always end up burning people by making them think he might stick his neck out for them and then turning his back.
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May 3, 2018 06:44
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Awww Michael  This season is dull gameplay that's still enjoyable cause of the players are so entertaining but dear god is Naviti strong dull. And now it's too late for the B Team to overthrow Dom/Wendell so great going on that one.
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May 3, 2018 07:20
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The funniest thing about "Naviti strong" is that it makes Jacob's comment back in the first episode about Malolo being the greatest tribe ever more and more wrong as time goes on.
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May 3, 2018 07:24
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Jacob: The Wrongest Ever
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May 3, 2018 07:33
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So, who from the B team goes with Dom/Wendell to create the majority? Feels like we're meant to assume its Kellyn, but she's also been the most "Rah Rah Naviti" from the get-go. Maybe Chelsea because of her prior relationship with Dom? I'm having a hard time seeing somebody aside from Dom/Wendell winning at this point. Laurel could orchestrate some sort of rebellion, but the edit thus far has shown her as being 100% subservient to those guys. She has also essentially gone in too far with them to back out now, as she would for sure be voted out by the Naviti women if she were to flip. She's starting to look more like a goat than anything else, which is sad because she started out looking promising. Kellyn has shown herself to be a lucky, mediocre player who is generally out-of-the-loop and doesn't operate well under pressure. Donathan is playing an okay game, but I don't see him navigating past Dom/Wendell. And who fuckin knows about the always invisible Chelsea/Seabass/Angela. Those three aren't doing anything. Anyway, anybody not named Dom or Wendell needs to start focusing 100% of their efforts into breaking that pair up cuz they are cruising right now.
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May 3, 2018 08:26
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I still get the sense that Chelsea is lowkey Dom's secret weapon/parachute/goat. We now know he's thinking of cutting Wendell. That means he's gotta have someone else in mind to go to the end with. Maybe its just Laurel and Donathan and he's counting a majority Naviti jury voting for him. But I think Chelsea is in that mix for him. No real evidence, just my gut and stuff evictees have said (I just listened to Desi* and she said that Chelsea was actually playing hard and I think mentioned her with Dom again). Wendell seems like he's serious about this Dom, Laurel, Donathan F4. Which is dumb but I dunno. There's no other signs. Kellyn screwed herself bad enough this week that she kind of has to make a move next week. She's at the very least made an enemy of Laurel and I doubt Dom and Wendell are pumped about that extra vote. She took a big chance and it blew up so now I think she has to try and get Chelsea and Angela and I guess Sebastian and make a move. Problem is she'd need to turn Donathan against Laurel and that seems like an iffy approach even for Kellyn. And I can't see her talking them into a kamikazee 4 vs 4 run. Laurel and Donathan probably have to be the ones to make the move but as much as I think it "has to be" this week I don't think this week works. If they do it now it means giving up their silent majority to become the minority with Kellyn, Angela, Chelsea, and Sebastian. That's a bad move. Laurel doesn't seem to want to do it anyway and after the last couple of weeks I can't see her turning on Dom and Wendell now. Donathan might, but the math doesn't make sense with Michael and Jenna gone. I assume that's why Donathan was debating using his idol on Jenna. If they turn now we might be looking at one of the worst ever F4s of Kellyn, Chelsea, Sebastian, and Angela. I think maybe they have to take out Kellyn next and then make their move at 7 hoping Chelsea, Angela, and Sebastian can't get it together to take over, or that whoever survives of Dom/Wendell will still vote with them out of self survival. I think dropping from 10 to 8 this week was a tough break for them. They lost all those Mololo numbers at once and the window is a lot smaller now. That being said I think Laurel could probably get as deep as F6 or 5 with Dom, Wendell, Donathan, and Kellyn/scragglers and still theoretically end up in a F3 without them that she could win (I don't think Donathan can win unless he's sitting next to goats). But its a small, small window now. That tribe split was an interesting idea that could have shaken things up if had split differently... but it just kind of sped up what was already happening. *Desi also revealed in her eviction interview that she had no intention to get Chelsea in on the vote to evict Kellyn. So that makes that move dumber. I like Desi and respect the instinct but she is not a good player. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 08:58 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 08:56
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I forgot that Laurel saved Kellyn last week. I hate that stunt this week even more now. I don't know why people have found her more palatable than Bradley, but their petulant child alliance makes more sense every episode. I also wouldn't trust Desi's opinions. She was one of the few recruits this season and "played" something between a passive and tone-deaf game. If she had a good read on anybody out there, she wouldn't go hardcore anti-Malolo and suddenly go to the Malolos and say "hay guys I'm playing now, you'll take out my target right?" If Chelsea had been up to anything relevant, we'd see it.
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May 3, 2018 12:06
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Yeah I can't defend Michael. There was absolutely no reason for him to vote Wendell. Vote for Laurel and she goes home. Vote for Kellyn and he would have tied the votes 2-2-2 (and he'd still have gone home because Dom/Wendell would vote him out, but meh). He had no reason to vote someone who he knew was allied with Dom. Also it'd have been hilarious if Donathan had nullified Jenna's votes, and then on the re-vote he gets voted out thanks to Jenna. It'd have been a Hall of Fame worthy villain move by Jenna. I'm not too bummed that Michael's gone, but I think it makes the rest of the season fairly predictable since I can't see anyone outside of Dom/Wendell and maaaybe Laurel winning. I don't think Donathan's got it. Kellyn could win a jury vote but she'd have to sit next to the Naviti girls and/or Sebastian. The rest are kinda dead in the water. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 13:22 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 13:07
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Spergatory posted:Survivor season 36, where good players do smart and interesting things but none of it matters because Kellyn is a loving black hole of good television. This guy gets it. Kellyn is the worst.
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May 3, 2018 14:33
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The best explanation I've seen for what is happening at this point is that production is angry at Naviti as a whole for making the game boring, so every Malolo (save Jenna and Libby) gets a huge edit and tons of personal content, while half of Naviti is basically erased from the show. They seem to be saying to future contestants "give us what we want, or else."
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May 3, 2018 15:10
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It serves them right for starting the season with 2 tribes rather than 3.
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May 3, 2018 15:16
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Or maybe Sebastien is just boring as poo poo?
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May 3, 2018 15:17
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What was Jenna thinking voting Donathan anyway? I hate that kind of behavior. She's clearly not part of the Naviti alliance, but there she is doing their bidding for no benefit of her own. Imagine if Donathan had played his idol for her, and her vote took him out! Is it really worth risking that just for the opportunity to show the dominant alliance that you threw your vote their way like a good little spineless bottom dweller? And it's not likely, but maybe if she hadn't been betraying Donathan he would've picked up a better vibe from her and he would have played his idol for her.STAC Goat posted:Kellyn is a mess and she probably blew up a lot of her game pulling that stunt right after last week's stuff. Maybe she can salvage numbers with the B Team but if you're Dom and Wendell you gotta be pissed and her throwing out two votes on Laurel the week after Laurel saves her rear end is a bad look and should be funny in the dark damage control next week. On the other hand she might be goating herself. Vernacular posted:So, who from the B team goes with Dom/Wendell to create the majority? Feels like we're meant to assume its Kellyn, but she's also been the most "Rah Rah Naviti" from the get-go. Maybe Chelsea because of her prior relationship with Dom? The only thing is, Dom/Wendell are so obvious that you'd think everyone turning on them eventually would be an inevitability. Like, if people ever wise up and stop serving the two of them, Dom and Wendell are just two guys!! You could even see a vote split at F8, 3-3-2, taking one out or forcing them both to play their idols, or 3-2-2 at F7. And then you could mop the other up soon after. But with the edits Chelsea, Angela, and Sebastian are getting, I don't really feel like there's any chance those people are going to the end game? Probably Kellyn will keep those three in line and they'll all shout "Naviti rules!" as they drive off the cliff together like the O'Doyles. Change feels pretty hopeless atm and props to Dom and Wendell if they do make it to the end, but it'll have been a frustrating ride if nobody ever challenges them.
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May 3, 2018 15:32
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Fast Luck posted:What was Jenna thinking voting Donathan anyway? I hate that kind of behavior. She's clearly not part of the Naviti alliance, but there she is doing their bidding for no benefit of her own. Imagine if Donathan had played his idol for her, and her vote took him out! Is it really worth risking that just for the opportunity to show the dominant alliance that you threw your vote their way like a good little spineless bottom dweller? And it's not likely, but maybe if she hadn't been betraying Donathan he would've picked up a better vibe from her and he would have played his idol for her. I agree. The only time to vote with the majority as a minority alliance member is when you believe the votes are gonna be split and your vote could be the one that saves you or if you have an actual secret in with the majority alliance. Anyone who is willing to work with you isn't gonna decide not to because you didn't just uselessly bend your will to the majority. The same thing happened earlier when Michael saved himself with his idol. I understand Laurel and Donathan voting with Naviti, but Jenna and Libby absolutely should have been voting with Michael. I don't understand why they didn't unless Michael isn't telling his alliance who he's voting for.
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May 3, 2018 15:41
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^I think it's just a pure short-term self-preservation move out of fear, sadly. Trying to do anything to avoid being taken out next, like not moving at all so the t-rex doesn't eat you. It's also sort of like how when Michael approached Angela about how she was being left out of things, she just immediately went around telling all the people with power what he said. Like, that raised her stock a little bit... maybe? Idk, everyone is so eager to please the folks on top. in a way I feel like Dom and Wendell should've kept Michael around a bit longer, like the way Tony kept Spencer around, because the target on their backs is so obvious!!! But the way things are looking, nobody is going to do anything about them anyway, so they're fine. STAC Goat posted:Laurel and Donathan probably have to be the ones to make the move but as much as I think it "has to be" this week I don't think this week works. If they do it now it means giving up their silent majority to become the minority with Kellyn, Angela, Chelsea, and Sebastian. That's a bad move. Laurel doesn't seem to want to do it anyway and after the last couple of weeks I can't see her turning on Dom and Wendell now. Donathan might, but the math doesn't make sense with Michael and Jenna gone. I assume that's why Donathan was debating using his idol on Jenna. If they turn now we might be looking at one of the worst ever F4s of Kellyn, Chelsea, Sebastian, and Angela. quote:*Desi also revealed in her eviction interview that she had no intention to get Chelsea in on the vote to evict Kellyn. So that makes that move dumber. I like Desi and respect the instinct but she is not a good player. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 15:49 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 15:41
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To Dom's credit, he is smooth AF, and seems to have gotten more so since Chris was voted out. Probably caused him to loosen up quite a bit. Anyway, no knock on Wendell or anything cuz he is obviously no slouch at all, but from what we have seen from Dom in his social interactions, he is playing a top-tier social game.Fast Luck posted:in a way I feel like Dom and Wendell should've kept Michael around a bit longer, like the way Tony kept Spencer around, because the target on their backs is so obvious!!! But the way things are looking, nobody is going to do anything about them anyway, so they're fine. I was wondering about myself, but it was starting to look like Michael was cultivating a Ben Driebergen level of mystique with his (overrated) gameplay. They would also be looking at a potential Malolo coup if they ended up just pagonging the Naviti women. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 15:52 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 15:47
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Yeah, I could see the argument for getting rid of Jenna before Michael if it was the full merge tribe, but with the split as it happened I think it's too risky to dump Kellyn unless you can engineer it as her getting idoled out.
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May 3, 2018 15:59
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Spergatory posted:The best explanation I've seen for what is happening at this point is that production is angry at Naviti as a whole for making the game boring, so every Malolo (save Jenna and Libby) gets a huge edit and tons of personal content, while half of Naviti is basically erased from the show. They seem to be saying to future contestants "give us what we want, or else." or else what? The edit matters 0% to whether you win. Fine, edit me out. I'm there for the million bux not TV time idgi
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May 3, 2018 16:00
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Also if that's what they were doing, why didn't they give Desiree a stephanie johnson style edit since she tried something?
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May 3, 2018 16:53
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Because her "something" was badly planned and executed? I don't understand the question.
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May 3, 2018 17:00
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I think if Wendell wins I'm not gonna be super satisfied, because... it'd be too easy for him. It's the same way I viewed Jeremy in Cambodia, where you end up on the right side of the numbers and coast your way to the end with your super secure alliance and bust out your idol at just the right time because half the people you're playing with decide not to take you out for whatever reason til it's too late. It's not a bad strategy mind, you don't want to draw too much attention to yourself if the jury already sees you in a good light, it's just a bit of a boring win.
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May 3, 2018 17:34
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Jenna's interviews are out, and I thought this was funny: What’s something about your game that we didn’t get to see that you wish had been shown? Probably my alliances. They didn’t show any type of strategy on our end. Like, Michael and Stephanie Johnson and I were running things early over on Malolo. Michael and I were very, very close. I also looked for idols a lot. You don’t see that. I actually ended up finding a fake idol. I thought it was real, but it ended up being a fake idol that somebody had planted, but they didn’t show any of that. Who planted that fake idol? It was Wendell. I kid you not, it was immaculate. This kid is a furniture builder and it was unbelievable. I don’t even know how he made it. He carved a skull and it was a complete leather necklace. It was crazy. How did you find out it was not real? Michael had obviously seen a real idol and it came with the idol paper, and Wendell’s also had that [from a real idol]. But Michael put the two and two together and was like “Jenna, everything is from previous seasons.” And obviously him being a huge fan did not recognize it and it didn’t make sense to him. He was like “Jenna, this is not an old relic.” And so him figuring that out saved me thankfully. They didn't even put in a fake idol play in her edit, man.
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May 3, 2018 17:52
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The Bloop posted:or else what? The edit matters 0% to whether you win. Fine, edit me out. I'm there for the million bux not TV time That's fine if you win, or if you're at least charismatic and entertaining in confessionals, but if you can't pull either of those things, you're going to get erased and/or humiliated and you're not getting another shot. If you play a boring game and lose, you're pretty much getting the worst of all worlds.
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May 3, 2018 18:08
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It might be boring but I don't think its easy. Wendell might not have had to scrap quite as much as some players but he's definitely scrapped. His name was being thrown around two weeks in a row there. Ultimately my final opinion of Wendell will be in how he plays the end of the game and it seems like he's willing to gamble that his social game is superior and can beat his allies. That's a little disappointing from a game sense, but if he's right then kudos to him. Re: Jenna I don't hit her too much for the Donathan vote. Yeah, for sure, the Mololos should have had their poo poo together better but they just don't. That's not a Jenna thing, that's on Michael, Libby, and Donothan too. In that case Jenna presumably never imagined Donathan would consider using his idol on her, Naviti tells he they're voting out Donathan, so it makes sense for her to say "better him than me". If they had pulled a vote split or something then an errant vote could have done her in. Its pretty standard in that situation to just vote for the other option and hope for the best. Donathan randomly telling her he was going to use the idol on her theoretically changes things but how do you adjust from there? You can't say "No, use it on yourself because I lied and they're all planning to vote you out." You can't go to Navati and go "yeah, vote me out." You're just stuck in a mess, which is why I imagine she was so "lets just get this done with." She could have voted Sebastian and hoped Donathan came through but clearly that would have been a mistake as well. So whatcha gonna do? Mololo should have got their poo poo together a very long time ago but aside from that first Michael idol bluff they've never appeared to be on the same page, even discounting Double Agent Laurel. That's part of why we're here (although certainly bad tribe swaps and a tight hold by Dom/Wendell are the biggest). Fast Luck posted:That could make it smarter if Chelsea was in tight enough with Kellyn and Dom, meaning that she would've never gone with the idea or would've blown up the plan, and could only be picked up as a number after the fact. Basically it would mean Desiree was taking a step to avoid another Laurel situation. Except it means she openly lied to the Mololo crew about being able to pull Chelsea nad Angela's votes. Assuming no Mololo ever bothers to verify the votes to assure they're not in on a failed coup, if she still plans to go for Angela she has the numbers barely (6-5 by my count) but it was clear she hadn't talked to Angela. And of course Angela didn't have a vote. It seems tough to credit her for "avoiding another Laurel" situation when she also says she knew Laurel was working with Dom and Wendell put took the chance anyway. I don't take Desi's words as scripture. I always take evictees with a grain of salt, especially when they claim to know a lot more than what they seemed to know. But I just think its interesting info to toss in and it confirms that she didn't have those Naviti votes she claims she'd have to Mololo which makes that move way, way riskier/questionable IMO.
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May 3, 2018 18:10
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Bad luck has screwed over Malolo more than anything. Every tribe swap has had Malolo on the bottom, even in this episode.
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May 3, 2018 18:26
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Yeah, the tribe swaps and the tight hold on "Navati Strong" the few times it looked like someone might flip are the main reasons. Mololo got screwed by fate. But to the extent that any of them individually should have got their poo poo together and made a more focused strike on Navati they're all guilty of it equally. Michael, Donathan, Jenna, and Libby all clearly were doing this weird "one foot in, one foot out" thing that doesn't work. Whatever we think of Laurel's choice to flip and be a secret agent at least its a real plan. Even if it seems like it needs to have a second part if she hopes to have any chance to win. But everyone else in Mololo just kind of went with the flow and tried to survive. So Jenna's actions last night just seem in line with that.
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May 3, 2018 18:35
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Michael's explanation of the Wendell vote:quote:We saw on the way out that you had voted for Wendell. Was that part of a plan you had formulated going into that Tribal Council? So once again, Laurel screws over Malolo. Man she's going to be very unpopular at FTC if she makes it there.
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May 3, 2018 18:45
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Yeah, i thought it seemed likely that Michael's pitch was "I have an idol, I'm gonna use it, lets vote out Wendell". Kellyn and Laurel agreed with him and then went off and panicked against each other. I'd argue Michael should have recognized that it would be easier to turn one of them against the other than to try and pull a full scale coup. That's not an "easy" move either and its honestly remarkable Kellyn and to a lesser extent Laurel and Wendell bought in as hard as they did. But it just kind of speaks to out of the loop with the game dynamics Michael was. Which wasn't totally his fault, but the game is the game. And yeah, Laurel's got a questionable jury situation. But I think it amounts to the same solution as "can't beat Wendell or Dom." If she's sitting at the end with Kellyn, Chelsea, Sebastian, or Angela she's got a solid chance. If she can make a big move and lay credit to taking out Dom/Wendell she probably has a shot over Donathan. But playing double agent doesn't make you naturally popular.
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May 3, 2018 19:02
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I can't really blame Michael or Jenna for not getting the Malolos act together. Dom had locked Laurel and Donathan in fairly early in the Pagonging so they were never going to go into a Malolo thing all the way anyway
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May 3, 2018 19:58
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That's definitely true with Laurel. Donathan is a different story but he never seemed to really figure out what way he wanted to go with things. Its really a weird case of the Laurel and Donathan relationships where they're loyal to each other but they have wildly different game goals and strategies.
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May 3, 2018 20:02
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One thing about this episode that I actually enjoyed: "Congratulations, you've found David and Jay's Authentic Fake Idol! It's still fake though. Needs more time in the oven. But feel free to use it to punk somebody else!" I'm sure a bunch of Survivor pundits were whipping out their phones and getting ready to type up another anti-idol Twitter rant before the show pulled the rug out from under them.
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May 3, 2018 20:19
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Yeah, I was already anticipating all the anger about they "giving" Dom another idol when they pulled the gag. I enjoyed that one scene where Dom, Wendell, and Donathan were sitting on a bench with all the idols while everyone else was running around freaking out about idols.
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May 3, 2018 20:21
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STAC Goat posted:If they had pulled a vote split or something then an errant vote could have done her in. Its pretty standard in that situation to just vote for the other option and hope for the best. Donathan randomly telling her he was going to use the idol on her theoretically changes things but how do you adjust from there?
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May 3, 2018 20:35
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Fast Luck posted:Easy, you say nothing but vote with him against Sebastian or whoever. If he plays his idol correctly for you, you're safe and took someone else out instead of eliminating your ally who just saved you. What kind of split are you worrying about in that situation? I can't think of anything half as likely as what very nearly happened. Well if the Navati's decided to go 2 Donathan and 1 Jenna and Donathan voted for Jenna it could have screwed her. Its screwy but I think that's kind of the default instinct in that case. "Its me or Donathan so throw a vote on Donathan so hopefully its not me." Obviously the way it played out that wasn't the right move. But from Jenna's perspective I don't know that I would have done better. Especially when it was basically a case of "throw a vote against Donathan to try and protect myself and hope for the best or follow Donathan's plan and hope he follows through on his dumbass plan to use his POV on me." Which obviously would have been a bad bet too even it wouldn't have directly contributed to her getting evicted. I'm not saying she did "the right thing". I'm saying there was no good option there and Donathan's plan wasn't really believable (and turned out to be bullshit).
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May 3, 2018 20:43
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Under what circumstances would there be 2 on Donathan, 1 on Jenna, Donathan knifes Jenna to make it 2-2, and then the people who put 2 on Donathan decide to vote out Jenna in the tiebreak? Just seems like something that would not actually happen, as opposed to "they vote Jenna and Donathan plays his idol for her correctly"
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May 3, 2018 21:07
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Yeah, no, it would be weird and screwy. My point is Jenna doesn't have any trust with Donathan and his plan came out of nowhere so I get that the natural instinct is to just vote against the other option and hope for the best. Because otherwise we're just criticizing Jenna for not trusting Donathan when he was lying to her.
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May 3, 2018 21:11
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So her goal, if Donathan actually played his idol on her, was to vote him out? Instead of someone in Naviti? She can go gently caress herself.
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May 3, 2018 21:17
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I think its reasonable to assume she simply didn't have any confidence Donathan would use his idol on her. And she was right. So she just went with the Navati plan and hoped for the best. Which isn't a good plan but its really not any kind of plan. Its just winging it but that's basically what Mololo's done all season.
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May 3, 2018 21:18
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, no, it would be weird and screwy. My point is Jenna doesn't have any trust with Donathan and his plan came out of nowhere so I get that the natural instinct is to just vote against the other option and hope for the best. Because otherwise we're just criticizing Jenna for not trusting Donathan when he was lying to her. Just listened to her exit interview, and apparently she felt very secure she wasn't being voted for, because Sebastian told her she'd be safe, and she just thought, okay, they won't vote me out, and I'll get Donathan's idol played for me, so that he can't save himself (why does she care if he saves himself...because he's targeting Sebastian?). She admits maybe Donathan could tell she wasn't onboard and that's why he didn't end up playing it for her. At one point she tells Rob that when Donathan offered to play his idol on her and vote Sebastian, she objected because Sebastian wasn't a threat, and she wanted to target Chelsea for winning two immunities (which... made her immune that TC, right??). So anyway, she was wrong like 3 different times but in every case I guess it wasn't out of obsequiousness but because she was blinded by love for Sebastian heh. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 21:54 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 21:46
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