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Mu Zeta posted:I liked the Mars crew on the Donnager. Everyone else seem to be dumb as bricks. The captain, or lieutenant, or whoever, that Bobbi was friendly with that got taken out (AN ASSASSIN? NANI?) over Ganymede was pretty cool. ...uh...actually, that's almost just about it. Dang. The fact that almost the only non-jarhead types we've seen have been in on the evil "start a war" plot, manipulating Bobbi, hasn't served the Mars cast well, and the only "random martian soldiers" were those assholes that stopped and searched crusher of asses to dust and his uncle.
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May 4, 2018 12:23
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Hexel posted:if that is the secret to crushing rear end to dust then sign me up I have a feeling that if you ate that you would certainly crush at least your own rear end to dust.
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May 4, 2018 14:28
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Grand Fromage posted:I don't remember Mars proper ever showing up in the books except the novella about Bobbie and her family. There's the part where (major book spoilers) Alex decided to use some time off to see his wife one last time, which he realizes was a bad idea after she basically calls him a loving rear end in a top hat. The description above as an endless series of malls or airports connected together pretty much squares with my memory of it - the only big thing was how empty they were, because a whole generation of martians is no longer staying home to terraform but rather seeking out other already-habitable worlds through the gates and the dream of Mars is dying.
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May 4, 2018 15:11
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Im going to be so annoyed next episode when Anna do something stupid instead of going directly to the SG with that drat message
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May 4, 2018 15:20
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The Errinwright drama is almost played out. Dude was showing Francis Urquhart levels of caddery in his aside with Anna. Good to see in a villain.
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May 4, 2018 15:32
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Terraforming Mars is STILL stupid as gently caress, because it doesn't have a magnetic dynamo and any atmo you give it will just be blown off by the sun.
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May 4, 2018 15:34
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:Terraforming Mars is STILL stupid as gently caress, because it doesn't have a magnetic dynamo and any atmo you give it will just be blown off by the sun. Over a period of thousands of years, it wouldn't happen overnight.
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May 4, 2018 15:36
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Collateral posted:Over a period of thousands of years, it wouldn't happen overnight. Millions. Even hundreds of millions. And the outflow could be easily balanced by whatever method you used to give it an atmosphere in the first place.
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May 4, 2018 15:44
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It's probably also a matter of pride and individualism now. Sure, fixing Earth is easier but have you seen Earthers recently? They're lazy and stupid. Us? We need to work for our world and we're going to have a world full of proud Martians
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May 4, 2018 15:48
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Kassad posted:As far as I'm aware, the current understanding is that terraforming would be pointless because Martian soil all over the planet is laced with toxic chemicals. Even with a denser, breathable atmosphere you'd still have to live in closed habitats and wear some kind of space suit to go outside. Assuming you can even keep the toxic fines out of your habitat to begin with. For some reason I thought the evidence had started to swing away from perchlorates being ubiquitous, but I may have imagined that. Kassad posted:Also, Robinson wrote Aurora after he became aware of the perchlorate thing. It's also a good read. Agreed. Not exactly uplifting, but definitely worth reading.
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May 4, 2018 15:52
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:Terraforming Mars is STILL stupid as gently caress, because it doesn't have a magnetic dynamo and any atmo you give it will just be blown off by the sun. They created one, see the aurora in the intro
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May 4, 2018 16:53
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logikv9 posted:It's probably also a matter of pride and individualism now. Sure, fixing Earth is easier but have you seen Earthers recently? They're lazy and stupid. Us? We need to work for our world and we're going to have a world full of proud Martians This is why I hate martians above all. They're all basically a bunch of Ayn Rand republicans and sound like it and I get enough of that IRL.
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May 4, 2018 17:03
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Toast Museum posted:For some reason I thought the evidence had started to swing away from perchlorates being ubiquitous, but I may have imagined that. Even if they are, it's not a show-stopper. Perchlorates are *useful*. One of the things they're useful for is as an oxygen source, which seems possibly relevant to colonizing Mars.
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May 4, 2018 17:09
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Mars is fascist, Earth is neoliberal, belt is a soup of left thought
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May 4, 2018 17:15
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liberal, I'll grant but there's no version of neoliberalism that I know of that would approve of a concept like "basic".
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May 4, 2018 17:17
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i've never read the books, where is the martian economy supposed to lie on the free market - command economy spectrum the only corporations i recall from the show seemed to be earth-based
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May 4, 2018 17:19
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double nine posted:liberal, I'll grant but there's no version of neoliberalism that I know of that would approve of a concept like "basic". Its not perfect but I always viewed it as neoliberalism with basic out of necessity to prevent genocide or revolution Like it's got the signifiers: Ultra individualism Primacy of corporation Government as mere management
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May 4, 2018 17:20
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zeal posted:i've never read the books, where is the martian economy supposed to lie on the free market - command economy spectrum Mars is kind of like a mixed economy but it's the duty of individuals and private enterprise to be subservient to the state and to work to strengthen the state The entire society is mass mobilized for war and terraforming, if you don't fit in you're a useless eater
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May 4, 2018 17:22
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Phi230 posted:Its not perfect but I always viewed it as neoliberalism with basic out of necessity to prevent genocide or revolution Yep. There's also some sort of underclass that for whatever reason doesn't even have access to basic allowance. It's not hard to imagine it as an outgrowth of current "workfare" systems but in a world where even if you're forced to be continually applying for work and forced to accept the first work offered there is literally not enough work to be had.
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May 4, 2018 17:24
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The Belt is anarchist, their symbol is even adapted from the circled A, it's not subtle.
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May 4, 2018 17:24
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ah, fascist, okay
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May 4, 2018 17:24
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zeal posted:i've never read the books, where is the martian economy supposed to lie on the free market - command economy spectrum It's never really examined in-depth, but the impression I get is that the planet is essentially one massive company town. The terraforming effort touches on basically every element of society, and the actual infrastructure/project is privately owned, so even if there's technically democracy and free markets and all that bullshit on paper it's basically impossible to do anything they don't want you to. Not really a command economy in the leftist sense, but whoever owns the 'formers and their friends are a defacto monopoly and has a stranglehold on the whole society. So yeah, beaten, basically fash. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 17:28 on May 4, 2018 |
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May 4, 2018 17:24
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Phi230 posted:Mars is kind of like a mixed economy but it's the duty of individuals and private enterprise to be subservient to the state and to work to strengthen the state It has a distinctly Roman Republican vibe in that way. The state is the highest virtue, if you are simply benefiting yourself and not giving back to the state you're unacceptable.
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May 4, 2018 17:25
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Phi230 posted:you're a useless eater Doesn't Bobbie use this phrase in the book? It has, er, bad optics.
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May 4, 2018 17:26
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Also, the books make it very clear that Mars doesn't have a magnetic field, and that it's going to always be an issue for the planet.
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May 4, 2018 17:27
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Collateral posted:Doesn't Bobbie use this phrase in the book? It has, er, bad optics. 
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May 4, 2018 17:28
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hailthefish posted:Yep. It seems to be that everyone is given "basic" if they opt into the system. However, there are people who refuse the requirements of basic, like going to gov't places for food/items/housing. The Earth gov't could just go around forcing people to register up, but they see that as causing more problems than it solves. So they try to encourage people to be a part of the system, and otherwise try to let the people off the grid not cause too much trouble.
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May 4, 2018 17:31
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The UN's probably fine with it. You don't want to sign up for Basic, okay sure that's one fewer person we have to deal with.
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May 4, 2018 17:33
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Grand Fromage posted:The UN's probably fine with it. You don't want to sign up for Basic, okay sure that's one fewer person we have to deal with. #thanoswasright
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May 4, 2018 17:49
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Like wrt to Earth, merely having money is a signifier of privilege and ppl get shocked when you use money for stuff I found that analogous to neoliberalism's social tendency for people to save money for it's own sake and not to use it for material needs/luxuries
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May 4, 2018 18:00
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:#thanoswasright He wasn't, because the Earth clearly produces enough resources for a decent standard of living, but the allocation of those resources are concentrated in the hands of the wealthy
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May 4, 2018 18:01
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Phi230 posted:He wasn't, because the Earth clearly produces enough resources for a decent standard of living, but the allocation of those resources are concentrated in the hands of the wealthy *extremely third worldist voice* only because of the exploitation of the Belt
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May 4, 2018 18:30
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Phi230 posted:He wasn't, because the Earth clearly produces enough resources for a decent standard of living, but the allocation of those resources are concentrated in the hands of the wealthy He also could just snap his fingers and make more stuff.  But I think when we first met Bobbie she would have unironically agreed with Thanos w/r/t Earth. In fact, doesn't she say something to that effect before she meets Doctor Basic? StashAugustine posted:*extremely third worldist voice* only because of the exploitation of the Belt I noticed two things last episode: the Roci crew's clothing choice kind of reflects what the are clinging to. Holden with his Pur N Kleen, not wanting to take on his new, Quixotic role. Amos with his Martian uniform, Charlie Browning for a past he ran away from. Amos GNFs so he just wears whatever, but has his name on a crate full of stuff. Quick tangent: I love Amos' "dead people don't need their stuff," throwaway line. Spoiler Alert and Amos Pro Tip: Alive People can be made into Dead People who then don't need their stuff.  Back to uniforms: Bobbie with her recon gear and Avasalara wearing Julie's old racing jumper, both keeping reminders of what they are fighting for. And then there is Naomi, still wearing the Beratanas jumpsuit from the Roci's disguise, which brings me to the second thing: that "beratna" is Belter Patois for "brother!" 
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May 4, 2018 18:43
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StashAugustine posted:*extremely third worldist voice* only because of the exploitation of the Belt shut it Naomi.
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May 4, 2018 18:48
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Phi230 posted:He wasn't, because the Earth clearly produces enough resources for a decent standard of living, but the allocation of those resources are concentrated in the hands of the wealthy That's why Holden had to be a product of like 4 different dads in order to hold onto all that land in Montana. Unless you're uber-wealthy like Mao you don't get to have all that much property.
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May 4, 2018 19:01
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Some land going cheap in the amazon.
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May 4, 2018 19:25
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Collateral posted:Some land going cheap in the amazon. 
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May 4, 2018 19:42
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Going back to foodchat briefly, I've been reading the latest book and ran into a description:quote:heavily spiced and deep-fried balls of bean paste that Belters called red kibble. Not mushrooms after all.
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May 4, 2018 21:17
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bloom posted:Going back to foodchat briefly, I've been reading the latest book and ran into a description:
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May 5, 2018 00:52
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probably soy. textured vegetable protein, yum yum.
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May 5, 2018 00:56
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