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Lord Hydronium posted:Also it's been a while since I read CB, but I thought it wasn't so much a death wish as "I'd rather die than lose face". Murtry is all about holding onto whatever bit of power he has, at any cost to himself or others. I think it was a "I'd rather die and maintain my companies claim on this planet than live and leave that claim in leagal limbo"
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May 8, 2018 15:39
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Phi230 posted:People have killed for corporations in the past, even today, why don't you think somebody would die for one Self preservation is innate. Killing someone else is an entirely different thing than killing yourself. Name someone now who chose to die for their corporation when they had readily available outs? I'm saying it's hard for me to understand deviation from the innate without reasons which we wern't given. It wasn't believable to me.
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May 8, 2018 15:46
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I mean there's a big academic debate to be had about the genesis of national identity and its aftereffects. Maybe academics in 2700 in the expanse universe will look back in time and argue about the birth of corporate identity.
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May 8, 2018 17:07
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drewhead posted:Getting a Tattoo is a bit different than death. Self preservation is innate. "We'll give you a big raise posthumously"? I have a Wikipedia page that's gonna blow your mind: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company As I remember it, Mutry goes into detail on his motivations several times. If the UN sees a corporate base with a bunch of corpses, the company gets the planet legally under the UN charter. On the other hand, if they find a wildcat settlement of miners who were able to make a delivery of goods: at best they share the planet, at worst the colonists own the whole planet outright. Not only is he a corporate Nazi looking to kill and die for a business model, he actively understands this is what he is doing and plans to mark his place in history by making sure the company wins. drewhead posted:Self preservation is innate. Killing someone else is an entirely different thing than killing yourself. Name someone now who chose to die for their corporation when they had readily available outs? I mean, people kill themselves all of the time for myriad reasons. Mutry is just a future version of the rear end in a top hat cops at Standing Rock.
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May 8, 2018 17:50
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drewhead posted:Self preservation is innate. Killing someone else is an entirely different thing than killing yourself. Name someone now who chose to die for their corporation when they had readily available outs? I think most of it is that to him the most important thing is calling the shots, even to the end. He's got a justification, power, and a lot of implicit insecurities. He's not going to go along with having his power challenged, and having his power questioned makes him dig his heels in. He's so hosed that "You need to step aside or we'll all die" registers first as someone challenging his authority, and only secondarily as something that will kill him. Self preservation is a thing, but so is self sacrifice, and despite the common depictions of self sacrifice, it doesn't have to be noble. Nationalism isn't innate and people die for that all the time. Yeah, family/clan/in-group attachments are innate and that can easily scale up to nationalism. Murtry evidently had enough of an attachment to his "duty" to his corporation/in-group that he could use that concept to justify never relinquishing power, no matter the cost. It's honestly an interesting concept- respecting an institution to that degree. But I think even then it was presented as an excuse for him to do what he naturally wanted to do- namely hold on to his power at all costs. It could have been presented better, and I'd expect the show to give him more understandably human emotions if it ever gets into it. The one thing the show does a lot better is take time to look at peoples motivations a bit more closely than the books ever did. Edit: Actually I didn't read the above post closely and it's been a while since I read the book, but I'm now remembering that he did go into his "place in history" and stuff like that a fair bit actually. I still think his power trip was his true motivation, but he's got a compelling enough reason (for him at least) to not relinquish that power even in the face of death. Eiba fucked around with this message at 18:45 on May 8, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 18:42
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I reread part of the crappiest book for you all:Cibola Burn posted:
I am honestly shocked at how well we all remembered his motivations... 
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May 8, 2018 19:18
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Damnit. I can't not read Murtry's lines as Trump now.
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May 8, 2018 23:41
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Vord posted:Damnit. I can't not read Murtry's lines as Trump now. Ugh. Well, I can't not read Murtry's lines as Obama now.
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May 9, 2018 04:04
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I'd like to toot my own horn for realizing that following up on the yo mama joke in the unspoiled thread with "she reaches out, she reaches out, she reaches out and sucks my balls" would technically be a spoiler and abstaining.
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May 9, 2018 15:44
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I'm a bit sad about accidentally spoiling the big thing with an offhand joke instead of something that's actually funny.
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May 9, 2018 16:02
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bloom posted:I'm a bit sad about accidentally spoiling the big thing with an offhand joke instead of something that's actually funny. The real idiot/rear end in a top hat is spiderbyte who quoted you and then refused to edit the quote.
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May 10, 2018 01:30
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I really need to reread CB, did Souther take a bullet in the book?
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May 10, 2018 02:58
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drewhead posted:I really need to reread CB, did Souther take a bullet in the book? No?
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May 10, 2018 03:02
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I was wondering if they might replace the Investigator with a different actor, but listening to the Expanse podcast they very strongly hinted it will be the correct dude. And it'll be this season.
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May 10, 2018 05:03
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drewhead posted:I really need to reread CB, did Souther take a bullet in the book? It was a god drat great scenario, so props to the TV show if it was totally original. What prompted the missiles to be launched in the books again?
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May 10, 2018 05:05
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Grand Fromage posted:I was wondering if they might replace the Investigator with a different actor, but listening to the Expanse podcast they very strongly hinted it will be the correct dude. And it'll be this season. Some supporting evidence - I'll put in a spoiler tag just in case Episode 8 is called "It reaches out" Plot synopsis: An old friend taunts Holden with the answers he seeks.
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May 10, 2018 06:09
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I don't see them replacing Thomas Jane if they can get him back. Having a different actor would spoil the moment.
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May 10, 2018 07:03
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It'd be a bad move, but realities of TV production and all meant there was always a possibility. They obviously haven't said anything since they want the surprise.
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May 10, 2018 07:09
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Someone remind me how the Agatha King gets infected. It's been a while since I read the books and can't remember. It does happen around this time, right? I wonder how they'll do Holden's trip to the ship. Is it gonna be all blue and glowing like Eros, or will they take it in a more body horror direction like they did with that lab tech. bloom fucked around with this message at 07:56 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 07:48
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bloom posted:I wonder how they'll do Holden's trip to the ship. Is it gonna be all blue and glowing like Eros, or will they take it in a more body horror direction like they did with that lab tech. “Body horror” is my bet. Blue & glowing worked for Eros, but I don’t see it working here. There is no reasoning with the horrors on Agatha King. poo poo is hosed up. Holden needs to go in there and be a big drat hero.
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May 10, 2018 11:46
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bloom posted:Someone remind me how the Agatha King gets infected. It's been a while since I read the books and can't remember. It does happen around this time, right? Accidentally got hit with one of the monster missiles and the payload broke out and started barfing all over everything, iirc.
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May 10, 2018 12:25
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Yeah I'm looking forward to the Agatha King raid that was super important for reasons that I forget now, and I hope that Cotyar takes the place of the random low-level soldier dude that Holden met there in the books, especially since they basically did that with the low-level soldier guy that Cotyar killed in the dropship. I'm even up for him not just kind of resigning himself to his fate like the soldier did and trying to do something insane to make it out of there alive even if it means getting Holden killed, and maybe when he makes his move Holden's ready for it and that's growth on Holden's end too since he's finally ready for people to try to jump him or to do desperate stuff when they're in super high stress situations. Cotyar's been super cool but him staying behind and making sure the ship blows itself up or something would be a solid end to his arc on the show and tick us nicely into what is just about the right amount of character deaths for this whole Mao/Errinwright arc. It's also real nifty that they brought up Filip already, gives me real hope that we'll see more of the lead-up to that big Belter revolution.
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May 10, 2018 13:00
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There's a rumor that they replaced Thomas Jane's Ghost Miller with Elias Toufexas' Ghost Pudgy Adam Jenson
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May 10, 2018 15:59
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NowonSA posted:Yeah I'm looking forward to the Agatha King raid that was super important for reasons that I forget now, Can someone refresh my memory on this, too? I thought the name sounded familiar, but I just remember a ship that was infected with protomolecule somehow and for some reason they couldn't just blow it up, and Holden went in alone and did a thing. I thought it happened in one of the later books, though.
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May 10, 2018 17:16
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They had to get a maguffin so they could go on the spooky ghost ship
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May 10, 2018 17:22
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Phi230 posted:There's a rumor that they replaced Thomas Jane's Ghost Miller with Elias Toufexas' Ghost Pudgy Adam Jenson It's Thomas Jane but instead of saying "we need to talk" the entire Ghostbuster 2016 movie plays when he opens his mouth.
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May 10, 2018 17:36
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Phenotype posted:Can someone refresh my memory on this, too? I thought the name sounded familiar, but I just remember a ship that was infected with protomolecule somehow and for some reason they couldn't just blow it up, and Holden went in alone and did a thing. The ship got hit accidentally by one of the missiles containing a protomonster when they launched off Io and it barfed all over everything. Now there's a MacGuffin kill code or whatever on the King that will stop all the protomolecule missiles so Holden has to trek through the spooky body horror ship to find it and save the system. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 17:43 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 17:39
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if there's ghosts and mechacrabs (and ghost-possessed mechacrabs) in this series i hope there's gremlins and ghouls too
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May 10, 2018 17:40
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Crazycryodude posted:Now there's a MacGuffin kill code or whatever on the King that will stop all the protomolecule missiles so Holden has to trek through the spooky body horror ship to find it and save the system. At least the show set this up with Mao transferring control of the missiles to Nguyen.
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May 10, 2018 17:55
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Specifically Holden needs to get to the bridge and Nguyen because he has launch control of the missiles, and can turn the transponders for the missiles on so that they can be tracked and destroyed.
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May 10, 2018 18:10
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I can't see how you sign an actor for Miller without locking them into a multi-season commitment.
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May 10, 2018 19:57
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The show's opening credits spoiling itself: (check the location listed in the top right)
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May 10, 2018 21:08
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Does the Behemoth ever just loving ruin someone's day? I thought at first when he sent drummer to retrieve it it was gonna be used as just another habitat on the belt but it can't hold that many people so retrofitting it as a space battleship seems to make more sense anyway. Besides, I guess it could pull double duty as an extremely well armed colony anyway.
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May 10, 2018 21:16
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Milo and POTUS posted:Does the Behemoth ever just loving ruin someone's day? I thought at first when he sent drummer to retrieve it it was gonna be used as just another habitat on the belt but it can't hold that many people so retrofitting it as a space battleship seems to make more sense anyway. Besides, I guess it could pull double duty as an extremely well armed colony anyway. Nah it's an utter trash garbo battleship, it was built to be a civilian colony vessel. It just fundamentally doesn't have the structural integrity or design features needed to be an effective warship. It's big, slow, and flimsy, about the best I can imagine doing with it is turning it into some kind of glass cannon missile battleship that survives by staying far away and never getting shot back at, because it does have lots of surface area to put launchers on/interior space to convert to magazines. Even then it's slow and hard to maneuver so it would presumably just get chased down and killed by FACs/destroyers. But I would never in a trillion years want to take it into an actual fleet action gun battle like Fred Johnson is refitting it to. There are multiple points in the books where various engineers and whatnot express concern that firing the railguns they welded on might just tear them off their mounts, and there's zero chance it can actually take any meaningful amount of punishment. Its real value is as a symbol. Hey, look, the Belt has big-rear end ships covered in guns too! We're big and strong and you can't gently caress with us anymore! We have a right to come slap our dicks on the table now! Anybody in-universe who knows the first thing about naval engineering or space warfare has got to see it would be useless as an actual military asset, but that's not what Fred/the OPA want to use it for anyways. It's a political symbol. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 21:31 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 21:22
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So making it a super well armed port deep in the belt would probably have been a better idea anyway lol. Suck on that, cutty.
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May 10, 2018 21:31
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Milo and POTUS posted:So making it a super well armed port deep in the belt would probably have been a better idea anyway lol. Suck on that, cutty. Just, you know...not in the belt. 
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May 10, 2018 21:36
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It has built-in spin gravity that can be set to whatever level you want, a lot of the drum's interior is set up for farmland (real human food, no more mushroom paste!), the water and air recyclers are designed to last forever and serve a population of thousands, and it's got enough cargo space to hold all the supplies you need to build a colony from scratch that could be converted to warehouses/other storage. It would indeed make a pretty good port/waystation... if only they had somewhere useful to put it....
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May 10, 2018 21:37
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If you're really interested in what happens with it, you're actually not too far off (and then also way off base because of lack of future knowledge). They do end up using it as the "flagship" of the Belter fleet for a hot minute, but are basically terrified of actually having to use it in combat because it'll fall apart -- there's a bit where Drummer says that if they actually fire the railguns they've mounted, there's a chance they'll just tear loose and damage the ship. Extraspoilery: They take it through the ring gate in order to establish a Belter presence there, since Mars (and Earth?) had sent ships through after the Roci, and end up turning it into a space station anchored in ringspace to help with colonization through the rings and give Belters a purpose since their niche was disappearing. It ends up being pretty well suited to the task, it was a poo poo warship but it was designed to keep a bunch of Mormons alive for a hundred years on their voyage, so it has really good recycling systems and a rotating core to provide gravity. e: I see I was the only one to actually give him an explicit answer, but c'mon, this is the spoiler thread. I'm not tiptoeing around stuff here, too. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 21:46
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http://deadline.com/2018/05/the-expanse-canceled-syfy-after-three-seasons-to-be-shopped-1202388026/quote:The cancellation decision by Syfy is said to be linked to the nature of its agreement for the series, which only gives the cable network first-run linear rights in the US. That puts an extraordinary amount of emphasis on live, linear viewing which is inherently challenging for sci-fi/genre series which tend to draw the lion share of their audiences from digital/streaming. Someone else better pick it up. I swear to god if we lose this show because of tv execs being old morons. 
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May 11, 2018 06:01
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Has there ever been a TV series based on a non-complete book series that didn't eventually spiral into its own rear end? I can't think of one, hoped this might be an exception.
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May 11, 2018 16:27
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