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Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...

King Burgundy posted:

This doesn't make sense. So this has me leaning that you are the fascist in this pairing.

If I am Hitler, then this means that as Hitler, I got in a conflict with RF(falsely accusing?) which would lock me out of government and the most common win con for my team.

If I was Hitler the smart play was investigating someone as liberal.

If I was a fascist, then the smart play would be to accuse TMM of throwing the election AND falsely accusing someone else to lock three people total out of government. I read all the strategies as discussed earlier. None of the successful strategies involve playing like an idiot.

Hitler doesn't know who is fascist. So it does make some sense to accidentally investigate a fascist, and if you're playing like a liberal it also makes sense to claim they came up fascist, especially since the plan was to investigate you next. Introduce a bit of WIFOM.

Sorry, that doesn't clear you in my eyes.

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Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope

King Burgundy posted:

Deliberately painting all my posts as condescending is an interesting strategy. Keeping in mind that if anyone is calling anyone an idiot here it is you doing that to me. :)

(Ok now I'm being condescending, haha)

Lol masterful execution. 10/10

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Byers2142 posted:

Hitler doesn't know who is fascist. So it does make some sense to accidentally investigate a fascist, and if you're playing like a liberal it also makes sense to claim they came up fascist, especially since the plan was to investigate you next. Introduce a bit of WIFOM.

Sorry, that doesn't clear you in my eyes.

Nope. This doesn't make sense. In this scenario you are saying I deliberately outted my team mate now that I know who they are? And then after my stupid play they countered me to lock me out of government even though they know I'm Hitler?

What would be the imtended method of victory here?

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...

TMMadman posted:

When my turn comes up might depend on who CPig investigates and the results (and whether I believe them), but I think I might honestly lean towards you or maybe PMush and yeah, possibly DB depending on how his government comes out.

I could also see myself nominating KB even though he might not pass simply because I don't believe he's actually Hitler or even a fascist. It just doesn't make sense from my point of view for him to be either.

I'm surprised you'd think me, given our previous interaction and the fact that I'm right after you in order, but it does solidify something. If the fascist could read you the same way I did, were they aiming for Hitler on your Presidency? If I had to call a Hitler right now, it's PMush, because she hasn't done anything beyond play a good liberal. Maybe DB, but that was honestly more of a shot in the dark; I read PMush as your top choice.

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Byers2142 posted:

You trust Andy more than TMM?

Not necessarily, no. But going by the policies passed, CaptAndy looks slightly better I would say.

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...

King Burgundy posted:

Fwiw, I currently think our fascists are RF, cap, and AA(but waiting for pigs results before I firm this up. If pig is the fascist he should falsely accuse someone as his investigation for optimal strategy).

I'm leaning pmush as Hitler.

These are my reads as well. But Hitler hunting is difficult at best; basically, who is playing liberal and not making waves is all you can hope for.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Byers2142 posted:

Hitler doesn't know who is fascist. So it does make some sense to accidentally investigate a fascist, and if you're playing like a liberal it also makes sense to claim they came up fascist, especially since the plan was to investigate you next. Introduce a bit of WIFOM.

Sorry, that doesn't clear you in my eyes.

Yeah, I don't see how this makes sense. If KB is Hitler in that situation, then why bother to out RF when he could just say 'Cool, RF came up as a liberal' and then the fascists get a good turn in government where they could make KB look more liberal or disrupt stuff or whatever?

I just don't see KB as either Hitler in this situation. It's still possible that he could be a fascist, but I think that is also a bit of a stretch since he could have said he gave me a choice and then locked me out of government.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Byers2142 posted:

I'm surprised you'd think me, given our previous interaction and the fact that I'm right after you in order, but it does solidify something. If the fascist could read you the same way I did, were they aiming for Hitler on your Presidency? If I had to call a Hitler right now, it's PMush, because she hasn't done anything beyond play a good liberal. Maybe DB, but that was honestly more of a shot in the dark; I read PMush as your top choice.

At that point, I wouldn't be worried much about the line for presidency.

It's kind of a tough choice because I do think that one of you or PMush could very well be Hitler.

It's also entirely possible that RF is Hitler and KB nailed him on an investigation. I don't think AA or CPig is Hitler because there is no reason to cause this conflict now as Hitler imo.

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...

King Burgundy posted:

Nope. This doesn't make sense. In this scenario you are saying I deliberately outted my team mate now that I know who they are? And then after my stupid play they countered me to lock me out of government even though they know I'm Hitler?

What would be the imtended method of victory here?

They have to counter. You have to true claim, because there is another investigation coming your way. Easier to fight off a liberal CPigs investigation if RF fights to counter your claim then does something fascist later.

Let's say RF didn't counter; how does that play out? It reveals you because the fascist took it easy on you.

Let's say you fakeclaimed; what happens if RF passes a fascist policy when he didn't need to? You're outed, again.

It's just about the worst situation Hitler would find himself in, and the best play would be to go for 100% liberal in his play and hope he can either dodge the next investigation or that CPig is fascist and will cover for him. Sacrificing one fas-bro is worth it.

Incidentally, I don't think you're Hitler. Hitler wouldn't have been in favor of PMush's suggestion of a chain investigation, let alone thought through it enough to point out it needed three people in it. Hitler would have tried to suggest a different plan to keep that second investigation away from him. And Hitler wouldn't have begged to be President like you did after two no votes. Just in case he gets the investigation and accidentally hits a fas-bro.

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...

Dick Bastardly posted:

Not necessarily, no. But going by the policies passed, CaptAndy looks slightly better I would say.

I'm looking more at posting, but just policies neither had much choice if you accept their claims. Claims that were backed up by likely liberal players. That's why I'm considering their posting, and Andy has been posting more fascist than TMM.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

TMMadman posted:

At that point, I wouldn't be worried much about the line for presidency.

It's kind of a tough choice because I do think that one of you or PMush could very well be Hitler.

It's also entirely possible that RF is Hitler and KB nailed him on an investigation. I don't think AA or CPig is Hitler because there is no reason to cause this conflict now as Hitler imo.

Don't think RF could be Hitler. Wouldn't fascists have pushed away from that investigation at least a little bit if so?

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...

TMMadman posted:

It's also entirely possible that RF is Hitler and KB nailed him on an investigation. I don't think AA or CPig is Hitler because there is no reason to cause this conflict now as Hitler imo.

I'm worried about liberal policies getting buried and us having to work through the deck again, only reason I'm still hesitant to double up people right now.

I'd agree with the above. RF could be a bad luck Hitler, I don't think any of the others are. Hitler is in the mix between DB, kumba, you, and Pmush, I think; I'm ignoring RF as Hitler because how could we know?

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Byers2142 posted:

They have to counter. You have to true claim, because there is another investigation coming your way. Easier to fight off a liberal CPigs investigation if RF fights to counter your claim then does something fascist later.

Let's say RF didn't counter; how does that play out? It reveals you because the fascist took it easy on you.

Let's say you fakeclaimed; what happens if RF passes a fascist policy when he didn't need to? You're outed, again.

It's just about the worst situation Hitler would find himself in, and the best play would be to go for 100% liberal in his play and hope he can either dodge the next investigation or that CPig is fascist and will cover for him. Sacrificing one fas-bro is worth it.

Incidentally, I don't think you're Hitler. Hitler wouldn't have been in favor of PMush's suggestion of a chain investigation, let alone thought through it enough to point out it needed three people in it. Hitler would have tried to suggest a different plan to keep that second investigation away from him. And Hitler wouldn't have begged to be President like you did after two no votes. Just in case he gets the investigation and accidentally hits a fas-bro.

Interesting. This actually makes some sense even though I don't think I'd play that way.

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...

King Burgundy posted:

Don't think RF could be Hitler. Wouldn't fascists have pushed away from that investigation at least a little bit if so?

Like TMM argued to investigate kumba above everyone else?

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...

King Burgundy posted:

Interesting. This actually makes some sense even though I don't think I'd play that way.

I'm looking at it how I'd play Hitler in your position. In mafia, I bus the poo poo out my scumbros. I'd do the same here, so if I were Hitler and I got a fascist result, I'd claim it and hope for the best. I feel like others would as well, hence saying that specifically didn't clear you for me.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Byers2142 posted:

I'm looking at it how I'd play Hitler in your position. In mafia, I bus the poo poo out my scumbros. I'd do the same here, so if I were Hitler and I got a fascist result, I'd claim it and hope for the best. I feel like others would as well, hence saying that specifically didn't clear you for me.
The X-factor for me here compared to mafia is, how do you compensate for not having OOT chatter? We need to remember that each individual fascist is sort of playing their own game and trying to pick up on signals from their buddies, so they should be a lot more prone to bandwagoning together than in mafia where they can carefully measure their numbers and plan who's gonna go in and who's gonna put up token resistance to look better later.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Byers2142 posted:

Like TMM argued to investigate kumba above everyone else?

I dunno, I didn't really see that as him aiming away from others, but I guess he could have been. If I thought kumba was Hitler than I guess you and cap could have been trying to prevent his investigation.

Since cap wanted pig investigated so badly, that is another reason for me to think AA is the fascist in the current pairing.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

King Burgundy posted:

Since cap wanted pig investigated so badly
I told you in words of very few syllables what I wanted and you know it. If you're going to lie, why are you making it so clunkingly obvious?

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

CapnAndy posted:

I told you in words of very few syllables what I wanted and you know it. If you're going to lie, why are you making it so clunkingly obvious?

You told me an explanation after the fact and not a very good one. Nothing I'm saying is untrue, but keep riding that horse. Maybe if you repeat it enough other people will believe it.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Looking at tmm pushing kumba some more though, that only makes sense as a fascist trying to protect others if like all of the next president's were bad right? Like I can see him doing that if all of cpig, db, and RF were fascists with him? But that still seems super risky. I'm leaning away from that being a thing, but I'll keep it inind in case pig is the fascist.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Anyway we have a limited window to discuss who pig should investigate.

So let's do that.

I think he should investigate me.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
We might as well have him scope kumba.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
I still don't care and probably won't believe it, but at least it's theoretically a good plan.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

I'd be ok with that. But let me tell you part of the danger I see with anyone other than me. If Pig is the fascist, he's already frozen AA. If we let him target anyone else not already frozen, he could target a liberal and say they are a fascist, thus freezing yet another person out of government. So that would be one fascist locking out two liberals. That is not good for us. Would be five of the ten of us locked out with only two fascists in that group.

Alternately, if he targets me and lies and calls me a fascist, we only have the same three to four people locked up.

This seems logically sound to me but interested to hear if I'm wrong and why.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
The issue with that (if you can call it an issue) that I won't believe him. No matter what he says and no matter what kumba is, a fascist has theoretical motivation for it. Him voting you is just as inconsequential though, so if that's what people want, sure.

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...
I don't see a reason to deviate from the KB plan; it gives us another view into that quagmire, tainted though that view is.

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!
I have no qualms with a KB investigation for the reason given.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope

Dick Bastardly posted:

I have no qualms with a KB investigation for the reason given.

Well if Pig says KB is fascist, Pig's hitler. If he says he's liberal, KB is fascist.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Well if Pig says KB is fascist, Pig's hitler. If he says he's liberal, KB is fascist.
Isn't that a pretty straight-up WIFOM?

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope

PMush Perfect posted:

Isn't that a pretty straight-up WIFOM?

Yeah but one of those scenarios are also probably true since I'm not a fascist or hitler.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

A Winner is you!
If KB is the consensus I will investigate him.

AA is bad tho. I don't think hitler, just fascist because why would hitler make this happen if they didn't have to?

I am worried it is fascists trying to pull out a quick victory if DB and/or RF are both fascist.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
I'm just not following your train of thought from "is either fascist or Hitler" (true from your hypothetical liberal perspective) to "if he says this he's fascist and if he says this he's Hitler and saying this out loud has no effect on it". You're setting yourself up for a WIFOM, and there was no reason to say it before he got (theoretically) scoped.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope

CapitalistPig posted:

If KB is the consensus I will investigate him.

AA is bad tho. I don't think hitler, just fascist because why would hitler make this happen if they didn't have to?

I am worried it is fascists trying to pull out a quick victory if DB and/or RF are both fascist.

Lol you are so full of it.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
That was @ AA.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

A Winner is you!

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Lol you are so full of it.

ok

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!

CapitalistPig posted:

If KB is the consensus I will investigate him.

AA is bad tho. I don't think hitler, just fascist because why would hitler make this happen if they didn't have to?

I am worried it is fascists trying to pull out a quick victory if DB and/or RF are both fascist.

Great news! I'm not fascist. I still don't know what to make of you or AA yet. I understand and would agree with AA's statment in the case that AA is not lying about being liberal, but I also wondered myself as pmush has already pointed out, that putting that analysis of Cpig's hypothetical investigation result out there does sort of become moot because of WIFOM.

Would it be a strategic blunder to have Cpig investigate someone we can agree to nominate for this current admin and then judge both Cpig and nominee after the policy result?

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!
I should have formatted that last post better. The third sentence onward was more of an address to all players.

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...

Dick Bastardly posted:

Would it be a strategic blunder to have Cpig investigate someone we can agree to nominate for this current admin and then judge both Cpig and nominee after the policy result?

I don't think it's a horrible idea, actually.

The obvious con is you're involving a fifth person in the current clusterfuck of counter claims. Regardless of result, there's going to be WIFOM involved. And you can bet that the fascists are going to use that to try and trip us up.

The pro is that we get one more chance at an investigation into those not in the cluster. I don't think we have more than two fascists amongst the four of them and I also don't think Hitler is there unless the RF investigation got extremely lucky, and personally I don't think CPig is one. His play as a fascist president this early seems like it would be overly agressive. You said PMush and me were what you were leaning towards; tell us who you'd prefer to target and he could give us something to work with.

The more I think about it, the more I think it could be useful. The only big downside I didn't mention above is it gives you a lot of power; in essence, you get to call the investigation target, nominate, and potentially get an assassination if the next policy is fascist. That's a lot to place in the hands of someone I have a null read on currently.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


I’m fine with KB so I can be vindicated.

Unless Pig is a bad man but then at least me and anyone who believes me more will have found 2 fascists.

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CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.
I don't care who gets investigated, because due to the AA/CPig conflict we can't trust it.

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