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favorite math?
addition
subtraction
multiplication
division
I use the term "maths" like some imbecile
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Fiddler on the Reef
Apr 29, 2011


I was a big math nerd in school and the multiplication methodologies in the op seem reasonable to me. Different doesn't mean worse.

And calculators shouldn't be allowed in middle school. Or high school.

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proctorbot
Jan 27, 2005
BUT CAN IT FEEL??!?!

Return Of JimmyJars posted:

You can get 1000 #2 pencils for $80 on Amazon and 160 spiral notebooks for about the same price. The IRS provides a $250/year tax credit to teachers who buy their own supplies.

This does not justify you making the same salary as a GP, engineer, or whatever. Also keep in mind you get half the loving year off to go do whatever you want.

Thanks for the comment. Yes basic school supplies are quite affordable which I have no problem giving them out.

I don't think teachers need to make as much as a GP or an engineer. Of course I'd love a modest pay increase like anyone else. I make enough to provide food, clothes, shelter, and medical care for my family so I'm fairly satisfied on that front.

What I object to is your idea that being a good teacher is an easy job. If I just stood I front of the room reading a PowerPoint the room would be a circus within 5 minutes. Yeah talking about basic math is easy, getting a bunch of ADD phone addict punks to pay attention and actually learn some skills is really challenging.

Not in the same way as being a longshoreman or oil rig guy of course ffs

JediTalentAgent
Jun 5, 2005
Hey, look. Look, if- if you screw me on this, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine, you rat bastard!
I was a math major for a while and despite that the 'proofs' part of math never really entered into classes until the final 2 years. It would have been great in the long run if during the first 2 years of college Calc, CS, Trig, Lin. Alg. we did more than gloss over the formula and then have us memorize it in order to solve things.

You're so used to dealing with math as 'numbers' or word problems that you have to figure out how to use the math you know to solve.

When all my Math suddenly shifted to pages of letters and words and explaining why A(x) = B(z)+Z(y), I did not do well because it was something that I couldn't grasp what they were looking for, what they were wanting, etc.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


I was fine until it got up to multiplying matrices and such. It felt like pulling teeth. Luckily com sci math stopped at that point or I'd have flunked from migraines.

Or just plain flunked. My brain isn't big enough to see it as anything other then disconnected and abstract. I found that demoralising.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 18:06 on May 16, 2018

Batterypowered7
Aug 8, 2009

The mist that chills you keeps me warm.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

I was fine until it got up to multiplying matrices and such. It felt like pulling teeth. Luckily com sci math stopped at that point or I'd have flunked from migraines.

*linear algebra flashbacks*

Rock Paper Tongue
Oct 24, 2016

May cause birth defects

I've got a few teacher friends and they teach using the box method. It's a nice visual way to break numbers down into their places and it's good for students who struggle with the traditional stacked method. They also use it when multiplying polynomials instead of FOIL, since it's better for polynomials with more than two terms.

And teaching anbody anything is lovely and difficult if they're unwilling or unable to learn. You've got to be able to convey the same information in multiple ways so it makes sense to different people, you need to be able to answer any questions they have, you need to keep them interested, and you have to do it fast because there's 29 other people who are also failing to grasp the lesson.

That's on top of parents who are pissed their kid isn't doing better, school officials who are pissed that you're behind schedule and your scores aren't up to standards, kids who can't or don't want to learn, and your own desire to teach these children properly.

Sophy Wackles
Dec 17, 2000

> access main security grid
access: PERMISSION DENIED.





GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

I was fine until it got up to multiplying matrices and such. It felt like pulling teeth. Luckily com sci math stopped at that point or I'd have flunked from migraines.

Did they not require linear algebra? We had to take it for my program and it’s a must know for many CS fields, anything from machine learning, to graphics, to even something like search engines. Linear algebra takes some time to get used to, but it is really cool when you get the hang of it!

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Pillbug
I like linear algebra and apparently actually figured out large parts of it myself working out various geometry problems and stuff. So I figured I might as well take a course in it at Uni since I already knew it. So I did. Took all the practice tests from previous years and they were easy-peasy. No probs.

Then I go to take the actual test for that year. Hoo boy.
"Invert this 5x5 matrix, write down all the steps :downs: "
"Calculate the eigenvectors and values of these enormous matrices and shove them up your rear end :downs: "
"Factorize this high grade equation :downs: "
"No you can't use a calculator :downs: "
"You have three hours + 20 more questions :downs: "


Like, the biggest matrix they worked on in the tests for the previous years was 4x4. It's not that it's conceptually harder to work on larger matrices but the sheer number of arithmetic operations involved makes it extremely hard not to gently caress up a number somewhere when you do it by hand. It's like, what the gently caress is this, a course in number crunching? They were multiple point questions, so you'd think if you showed that you knew how to invert a matrix you'd get a few points, but fucken NOPE. lol @ you for wasting your time on those questions.

Biggest loving piece of bullshit I ever seen. I still passed, but just barely, and now my grades make it look like I mysteriously suck at just linear algebra.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


Pawn 17 posted:

Did they not require linear algebra?

Yes, we did. I didn't take anything other then the bare minimum of math modules in that course.

I wish I'd enjoyed it as it would have been useful as hell and a totally new perspective to see the world from.

jimmyjams
Jan 10, 2001


King Kong of Megadongs
Gobblin' them mega schlongs
Makin' sure they mega long
Stroke' 'em if they mega strong
6x9=420

Neophyte
Apr 23, 2006

perennially
Taco Defender
college me:

:downs: "I should be a math major! Freshman math wasn't hard! I'm smart!"

Differential Equations and Infinite Series:





Philosophy was a much better major, because in philosophy you can never be wrong (if you bullshit enough)!

Good Dog
Oct 16, 2008

Who threw this cat at me?
Clapping Larry

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

I was fine until it got up to multiplying matrices and such. It felt like pulling teeth. Luckily com sci math stopped at that point or I'd have flunked from migraines.

Or just plain flunked. My brain isn't big enough to see it as anything other then disconnected and abstract. I found that demoralising.

I managed to get through almost all my undergrad without a graphing calculator and just the basic scientific ones. Then my orbital mechanics class my senior year started requiring multiplication of 3 3x3 rotation matrices for coordinate transformations. It wasn't hard math but just so time consuming to do on tests. And then my composites classes required 6x6 matrices for stress-strain conversions. Not hard math but a pain in the rear end to do on a test when the professor writes the exam thinking everyone is going to be using a graphing calculator that you can just plug 9 numbers into some open & closed brackets and push enter.

The box method is cool to do in your head and I think alot of people just intuitively do it as a way of rounding to make numbers easier to work with. The lattice method is neat but I would hate to be forced to do it in order to receive credit for a correct answer. It seems like the biggest problem with common core principles isn't that the method is wrong or bad, just different, but that you HAVE to do it that way or you don't get credit.

a mysterious cloak
Apr 5, 2003

Leave me alone, dad, I'm with my friends!


Goddamn we learned multiplication tables and long-form everything, what is all this new age hippie poo poo

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Pillbug
It's not clear to me what skill they think anyone will learn by having them multiply huge matrices by hand. If they were symbolic, like how to derive a projection matrix for homogenous coordinates or something, sure, but they never suggested stuff like that was even possible.

EorayMel
May 30, 2015

WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Français.

Mooey Cow posted:

It's not clear to me what skill they think anyone will learn by having them multiply huge matrices by hand. If they were symbolic, like how to derive a projection matrix for homogenous coordinates or something, sure, but they never suggested stuff like that was even possible.

What if you don't have access to a calculator :human being:

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


I'm confused as to what you'd do with the result, without a calculator or computer.

Damo
Nov 8, 2002

The second-generation Pontiac Sunbird, introduced by the automaker for the 1982 model year as the J2000, was built to be an inexpensive and fuel-efficient front-wheel-drive commuter car capable of seating five.

Offensive Clock

Return Of JimmyJars posted:

You can get 1000 #2 pencils for $80 on Amazon and 160 spiral notebooks for about the same price. The IRS provides a $250/year tax credit to teachers who buy their own supplies.

This does not justify you making the same salary as a GP, engineer, or whatever. Also keep in mind you get half the loving year off to go do whatever you want.

Return Of JimmyJars posted:

Lol yes a full back breaking day of standing in front of 20-30 kids slowly reading a PowerPoint is soooo hard and demanding. gently caress you roughnecks, longshoreman, and heavy machinery mechanics the toughest job is being a teacher!!

90% of teachers could be replaced with a YouTube video.

holy poo poo you are a retard. this thread is a great honeypot to out complete gently caress face moron assholes

lol 250 dollar a year tax credit for supplies. you obviously don't know a single loving working teacher. gently caress, not even just teachers. my wife works in behavioral therapy and works with one kid at a time, let alone 30+, and easily spends more than 250 bucks a year on supplies.

have you ever even taken care of a single child, let alone 30 for 8+ hours? sure longshoreman blah blah work hard, but saying teachers don't is just the most ignorant retardation. longshoreman also are done at the end of the day, and don't need to do a shitload of stuff at home. also, last time I checked, but shipping crates don't have retarded rear end in a top hat parents to deal with constantly or pta meetings and the like. also you don't have to attend dozens of social functions for shipping crates, a lot of which you are probably not even paid for.

also how much money do you think most teachers make? hint: it isn't even close to 60k a year like that bullshit graph stated

Damo fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 16, 2018

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

There’s gonna be a lot of teachers out of work once the AI revolution replaces them with an iPad glued to a roomba.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Buglord

Damo posted:

holy poo poo you are a retard. this thread is a great honeypot to out complete gently caress face moron assholes

lol 250 dollar a year tax credit for supplies. you obviously don't know a single loving working teacher. gently caress, not even just teachers. my wife works in behavioral therapy and works with one kid at a time, let alone 30+, and easily spends more than 250 bucks a year on supplies.

have you ever even taken care of a single child, let alone 30 for 8+ hours? sure longshoreman blah blah work hard, but saying teachers don't is just the most ignorant retardation. longshoreman also are done at the end of the day, and don't need to do a shitload of stuff at home. also, last time I checked, but shipping crates don't have retarded rear end in a top hat parents to deal with constantly or pta meetings and the like. also you don't have to attend dozens of social functions for shipping crates, a lot of which you are probably not even paid for.

also how much money do you think most teachers make? hint: it isn't even close to 60k a year like that bullshit graph stated

i had a post drafted similar to this but with less pizzazz so thanks for doing the good work.

Jim Barris
Aug 13, 2009
Jimmyjars is saying some impressively dumb poo poo but I don't think he's gonna top expressing incredulity at the idea of children misbehaving.

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

your friend a dog posted:

that's true, but don't they use the same lesson plan every year? seems like a lot of that stuff is work that gets sorted out in the first year or two.

On the high school level teachers will be switched around and given new sorts of classes fairly frequently and can never be assured it won't happened, on the elementary level that might be true but the level of responsibility and management with the kids is through the goddamn ceiling.

You have a bachelors katana guy? I invite you to go get a job as a substitute and work some elementary days, where you don't have to do even a fraction of the prep and planning and organization. But will still feel like you got hit by a freight train at the end of the day.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Neophyte posted:

college me:

:downs: "I should be a math major! Freshman math wasn't hard! I'm smart!"

i tried to get into the physics program but couldn't get high enough marks in calculus :downs:

but i got to smoke way more weed going into the linguistics dept :420:

seriously though even if you're doing really basic low-level programming you need to understand math inside and out. you can't even program basic video game pathfinding without being able to write a modular trigonometric formula

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Return Of JimmyJars posted:

Lol yes a full back breaking day of standing in front of 20-30 kids slowly reading a PowerPoint is soooo hard and demanding. gently caress you roughnecks, longshoreman, and heavy machinery mechanics the toughest job is being a teacher!!

90% of teachers could be replaced with a YouTube video.

lol this puss would be broken in half if he had to babysit even one hyperactive kid for one day

Grape fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 16, 2018

Pitdragon
Jan 20, 2004
Just another lurker
they should make games to teach kids math so kids get addicted to doing math and stay up late at night doing math and wake up early in the morning so they can get back to math

obviously these wouldn't be lovely games, these would be very good games

Pitdragon
Jan 20, 2004
Just another lurker
like we have legions of people who literally spend their lives watching numbers go up BY CHOICE i see no reason we cannot apply the same concepts to education

Magnitogorsk.
Nov 14, 2004

Global warming is barely a big deal at all compared to the trajectory we used to be on. We'll have to do a lot of environmental engineering projects along certain shorelines and it will be a little warmer and wetter in some places, big fucking deal.
just lol if your job is less physically strenuous than deep sea ice crab fishing, what are you even getting paid for?

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

The White Dragon posted:

seriously though even if you're doing really basic low-level programming you need to understand math inside and out. you can't even program basic video game pathfinding without being able to write a modular trigonometric formula

Like literally 99% of programming isnt this and doesn't require maths. Well other than stuff like Boolean algebra and bases other than 10 which is why they were both part of the New Math because omg sputnik Soviets are beating us in technology! :byodame:

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
ok fair enough but my point is that it's unrealistic to suggest that math doesn't have real-world applications, and mental math is good practice for solving logic puzzles and developing critical thinking skills.

implementing and troubleshooting netplay without understanding how to crunch even basic math in your head? not bloody likely

Dogmeat
Jun 20, 2003


Woof!

My high school had one calc teacher and she was crazy and really old and hated kids and if you expected to learn calculus, well, good luck because you were essentially on your own with a textbook. She was the kind of teacher that expected us to read the chapter, answer every problem at the end of the chapter, and she'd drone out the teachers edition answers the next day, and that was the limit of her responsibility. I mean seriously she's the calculus teacher and she hasn't even done the math to realize she would make more money being retired, and she wouldn't have to put up with the kids she took every opportunity to complain about, and she wouldn't have to go to work, but she kept at it and wouldn't let anyone else teach Calc because she'd been there the longest so she had seniority. Plenty of kids can hack it, but I expect only the ones with a natural propensity for math, so the administration didn't seem to think it was an issue when I brought it up as I dropped the class.

I ended up taking trig at a community college instead and the teacher was really laid back and stressed the fundamentals and didn't really care about homework so long as you made a token effort. He would write tests that would seem really intimidating at first but were essentially holding your hand through the current lesson's themes and operations, he just had that knack some do that makes math more like a story: with a natural exposition>rising action>climax>falling action>resolution to his problems. Not like super flowery word problems, but in how you attacked the actual math. If there was a complicated formula you needed to use, he'd incorporate it in a different problem somewhere in the test so you could refer back to it, he's not leaving land mines that punish you for not having a computer like precision for random formula only a handful of specialists in limited fields even use regularly, but he still makes sure you'll know how to apply it properly. It felt like magic, like he was some kind of math wizard who was more interested in students doing and understanding math, rather than just babysitting kids while their parents are at work and hopes and prayering your way into an educated work force.

SpazmasterX
Jul 13, 2006

Wrong about everything XIV related
~fartz~

buglord posted:

what in the world is any of this weird stuff


What the gently caress is this longform method? We never learned that poo poo, I always used basically the same concept as the box method here but there are even easier ways to break down a simple math equation like this.

Damo
Nov 8, 2002

The second-generation Pontiac Sunbird, introduced by the automaker for the 1982 model year as the J2000, was built to be an inexpensive and fuel-efficient front-wheel-drive commuter car capable of seating five.

Offensive Clock
this just in from goon retards such as Return Of JimmyJars who apparently has never seen a child in real life: if you don't exert enough effort to be physically exhausted and dirty head to toe by the end of the day, you don't work a "real job" that deserves decent compensation. this is ignoring the fact that taking complete control over 30 children, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week is a physically and mentally exhausting task. plus all the poo poo you do related to grading, planning, parents, school and social functions on your off time do not count. You deserve your bullshit 35k a year job for attempting to educate the next generation of children in this country to not be complete poo poo heads who grow up thinking "hey that trump fellow is a smart dude who has it together and is capable of being the most powerful man on earth". also you get a whole 250 dollars a year tax credit for supplies so be happy with that, selfish jerks.

what a loving moron

edit: wait i forgot, children pre high school are "generally well behaved" since they don't want to get in trouble hahahahaha

Batterypowered7
Aug 8, 2009

The mist that chills you keeps me warm.

Damo posted:

this just in from goon retards such as Return Of JimmyJars who apparently has never seen a child in real life: if you don't exert enough effort to be physically exhausted and dirty head to toe by the end of the day, you don't work a "real job" that deserves decent compensation. this is ignoring the fact that taking complete control over 30 children, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week is a physically and mentally exhausting task. plus all the poo poo you do related to grading, planning, parents, school and social functions on your off time do not count. You deserve your bullshit 35k a year job for attempting to educate the next generation of children in this country to not be complete poo poo heads who grow up thinking "hey that trump fellow is a smart dude who has it together and is capable of being the most powerful man on earth". also you get a whole 250 dollars a year tax credit for supplies so be happy with that, selfish jerks.

what a loving moron

But they get Summer and Winter off! (Except they have to opt to get paid less throughout the year in order to receive a paycheck at all during those months, and if you can't afford to do that then you have to work a different job during those months anyway.)

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Damo posted:

edit: wait i forgot, children pre high school are "generally well behaved" since they don't want to get in trouble hahahahaha

I like how that post described kids who were clearly conditioned by a well disciplined classroom environment, with clear expectations, and a teacher whose authority is fully respected.

And just assumed it was like that naturally.

Naw couldn't have been the teacher or anything!

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




Being a teacher sucks and they should get paid more. That's all there is to it.

Damo
Nov 8, 2002

The second-generation Pontiac Sunbird, introduced by the automaker for the 1982 model year as the J2000, was built to be an inexpensive and fuel-efficient front-wheel-drive commuter car capable of seating five.

Offensive Clock

Grape posted:

I like how that post described kids who were clearly conditioned by a well disciplined classroom environment, with clear expectations, and a teacher whose authority is fully respected.

And just assumed it was like that naturally.

Naw couldn't have been the teacher or anything!

dude, a screen playing a youtube video of a powerpoint presentation could have done it no problem

Return Of JimmyJars
Jun 24, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

Batterypowered7 posted:

But they get Summer and Winter off! (Except they have to opt to get paid less throughout the year in order to receive a paycheck at all during those months, and if you can't afford to do that then you have to work a different job during those months anyway.)

If I pay you $60k year to show YouTube videos to kids and drone off PowerPoints while handing out busy work it doesn't matter if I pay you all at once on January 1st or pay you literally every day you are still making $60k/yr. What grade do you teach? LMAO

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Return Of JimmyJars posted:

If I pay you $60k year to show YouTube videos to kids and drone off PowerPoints while handing out busy work it doesn't matter if I pay you all at once on January 1st or pay you literally every day you are still making $60k/yr. What grade do you teach? LMAO

Go drone some powerpoints at actual kids and see how that works out for you. :thumbsup:

Snowmankilla
Dec 6, 2000

True, true

Return Of JimmyJars posted:

If I pay you $60k year to show YouTube videos to kids and drone off PowerPoints while handing out busy work it doesn't matter if I pay you all at once on January 1st or pay you literally every day you are still making $60k/yr. What grade do you teach? LMAO

What do you do for a living? This is some of the saddest and broke-brained (hopefully troll poo poo) I have ever read.

Batterypowered7
Aug 8, 2009

The mist that chills you keeps me warm.

Return Of JimmyJars posted:

If I pay you $60k year to show YouTube videos to kids and drone off PowerPoints while handing out busy work it doesn't matter if I pay you all at once on January 1st or pay you literally every day you are still making $60k/yr. What grade do you teach? LMAO

I make more touching computers for a living doing even less than that. Trying to make fun of the wrong guy here. They don't actually get paid 60k a year and they don't do as little work as you claim they do, but you're either trolling up a storm in the thread or are extemely removed from the reality of the situation. Either way, this'll be the last time we interact in this thread.

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EorayMel
May 30, 2015

WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Français.

Dogmeat posted:

he just had that knack some do that makes math more like a story: with a natural exposition>rising action>climax>falling action>resolution to his problems. Not like super flowery word problems, but in how you attacked the actual math.

Do you remember any of the story techniques he used? This sounds like a super interesting method.

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