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TMMadman posted:Does anyone think it's odd that Cap says that kumba is the most trustworthy player but he isn't willing to trust kumba if I'm picked chancellor? Especially in this situation. We're at 3L2F, so there is no danger in terms of immediately winning the game. If a fascist policy does get passed (regardless of why) then Caps most trustworthy player would get the power. Plus if a fascist power is passed and there is a conflict in between me and kumba then he would be in a better position to convince people that I'm a fascist. It is consistent with his earlier call on this with my election with you as chancellor. I think it's weird too, but he just plays differently then I think is optimal. It doesn't mean he still isn't a fascist or whatever though. Just saying, not weird for him.
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May 16, 2018 18:34
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TMMadman posted:Does anyone think it's odd that Cap says that kumba is the most trustworthy player but he isn't willing to trust kumba if I'm picked chancellor?  I won't vote for a government in which I don't trust both parties. I'll be voting against you.
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May 16, 2018 18:47
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CapnAndy posted:Nope! I still think it's weird that you don't even seem to want to believe that you could be wrong about me being a fascist and are completely unwilling to give me a chance to prove myself. You don't seem to have any flexibility in your thought and have to have things fit into a certain view or everything gets fractured and that's what makes me think you are a fascist. What happens to your reads when I enact a liberal policy if kumba gives me one?
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May 17, 2018 00:31
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TMMadman posted:You don't seem to have any flexibility in your thought and have to have things fit into a certain view or everything gets fractured and that's what makes me think you are a fascist. What happens to your reads when I enact a liberal policy if kumba gives me one? Anyway if I change my mind, you'll just case me for being inconsistent or not sticking to my principles or some other nonsense, so pardon me if I don't let you hold office just to win the good graces I wouldn't get even if I did it.
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May 17, 2018 04:21
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I think I would support a tmm nomination at this juncture. I think KB and Cpig are safe bets at this point as well.
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May 17, 2018 04:35
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Dick Bastardly posted:I think I would support a tmm nomination at this juncture. I think KB and Cpig are safe bets at this point as well. I don't think we go KB or CPig until after we hit 3 fascist policies.
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May 17, 2018 13:24
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Byers2142 posted:I don't think we go KB or CPig until after we hit 3 fascist policies. Because you are so certain that they are liberal?
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May 17, 2018 13:52
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Because you are so certain that they are liberal? No, because they are almost certainly not Hitler and after 3 fascist policies, if you install someone as Chancellor and the game doesn't immediately end, then you can be sure that the person is NOT Hitler.
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May 17, 2018 13:53
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Byers2142 posted:I don't think we go KB or CPig until after we hit 3 fascist policies. TMMadman posted:No, because they are almost certainly not Hitler and after 3 fascist policies, if you install someone as Chancellor and the game doesn't immediately end, then you can be sure that the person is NOT Hitler. This hadn't occurred to me, but a good point.
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May 17, 2018 15:09
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TMMadman posted:No, because they are almost certainly not Hitler and after 3 fascist policies, if you install someone as Chancellor and the game doesn't immediately end, then you can be sure that the person is NOT Hitler. I understand latter and the policy rule but why are we so certain one of them is not hitler. I mean WRT to who is or is not hitler, I don't think Pig is hitler. I do believe he is a fascist. KB not so certain.
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May 17, 2018 16:03
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:I understand latter and the policy rule but why are we so certain one of them is not hitler. I mean WRT to who is or is not hitler, I don't think Pig is hitler. I do believe he is a fascist. KB not so certain. I've come to the conclusion that KB basically has to be a liberal. His actions don't make sense to me otherwise. If he was a regular fascist then he could have locked me out of government by saying he gave me a choice and then investigating RF as fascist. The only reason I could see for a fascist KB not to lock me out would be to stay on my good side so he can later select Hitler as his Chancellor during his second turn as president. Now that's a possibility, but I feel like it requires a fascist CPig to cover for him, but that would have required CPig to not get into a conflict on his turn which didn't happen. And if KB was Hitler, there is absolutely no reason to out a fascist RF at that point since RF (and the other fascists) would a) know KB is Hitler and b) know that Hitler now knew that RF was a fascist. Also if there was a fascist between KB and RF then they could manipulate the deck to get the 2nd investigation and declare KB liberal. So really I think there are two camps forming: one group thinks the fascists are among RF/AA/CapnAndy/PMush with one of kumba/DB/Byers as an alternate. The other group should be thinking KB/CPig as two fascists with probably me and ? That's kind of where I get lost because that group just doesn't make sense to me. For example, if a fascist CPig wants to investigate a fascist KB then why start a conflict that clouds the issue? It would be so much easier to just say 'yeah the deck screwed me and I had to pass 2 fascist cards.' because it gets a clean investigation and can't really be argued against even if DB had drawn 2 liberal cards since the 'missing' one could be in the 2 cards left.
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May 17, 2018 16:44
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TMMadman posted:I've come to the conclusion that KB basically has to be a liberal. His actions don't make sense to me otherwise. Unless he lied
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May 17, 2018 16:50
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Unless he lied What does a Hitler KB gain from lying and saying RF is a fascist? Are you trying to argue that a Hitler KB lied about RF which locked him out of government just so that he could be "tested" when it got to the Hitler zone? Why go through that trouble when it would be easier to stay close to the truth? After all, Hitler wouldn't know if there is a fascist to cover for him. Better to stick to the truth and hope a fascist covers for you or they argue against the chain investigation. At least in my opinion.
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May 17, 2018 17:07
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:I understand latter and the policy rule but why are we so certain one of them is not hitler. I mean WRT to who is or is not hitler, I don't think Pig is hitler. I do believe he is a fascist. KB not so certain. What's interesting is that this is yet another change from AA. Who had me as third from the top on his liberal list just like 24 hours ago.
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May 17, 2018 17:30
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Now he has Cpig in his corner. I get that most anything I say is going to be mostly ignored, but take into consideration his significant it would be to lock out two libs. The fascists in this hypothetical know KB, is Hitler. Hitler prevents a lib RF from assuming government power by investigating him and claiming false results. Pig, later comes into government knowing that KB has outed RF, assumes either he really did out a fascist which is silly or he kept liberals put of government and does the same to me. He plays a fascist policy lies about what he passed me conflicting us. Hitler and now conflicted fascists who have gained credibility from the timing of their presidencies, now hold opinion in thread. Hitler wouldn't have to rely on an outed fascist with a grandstanding play that was plausible enough to condemn RF for the remainder of the game. It's not that farfetched.
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May 17, 2018 17:37
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My opinion changed, big deal.
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May 17, 2018 17:37
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TMMadman posted:So really I think there are two camps forming: one group thinks the fascists are among RF/AA/CapnAndy/PMush with one of kumba/DB/Byers as an alternate. The other group should be thinking KB/CPig as two fascists with probably me and ? That's kind of where I get lost because that group just doesn't make sense to me. And I very much say you're a fascist too, TMM, and this is another reason why -- because you're attempting to reframe the entire debate so there's only two possible fascist groups and one is incomplete and derided as nonsense, so there's really only one group that anyone "really" believes in, and that group makes no sense at all. Hell, I may have to start rethinking PMush now, because I don't think you'd put two fascists in your fake group.
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May 17, 2018 17:42
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Now he has Cpig in his corner. I get that most anything I say is going to be mostly ignored, but take into consideration his significant it would be to lock out two libs. None of this makes sense. But I appreciate that you are still trying.
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May 17, 2018 17:43
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Now he has Cpig in his corner. I get that most anything I say is going to be mostly ignored, but take into consideration his significant it would be to lock out two libs. If this is what you think then you should have said that KB and CPig are fascists together earlier because that's the only way works. If you know Cpig is a fascist from his play then you should be assuming that KB is also a fascist and CPig is covering for him. After all, if KB is a liberal then a fascist CPig would have no reason to tell the truth and could lock you out and then claim a liberal KB was lying and let a real fascist in RF possibly get back into government.
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May 17, 2018 17:46
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CapnAndy posted:Hey so, does anyone feel that this accurately represents your beliefs? I agree with neither group, and RF/AA/me/PMush is a heck of an interesting quartet considering I've called AA out multiple times and still have a gut feeling that PMush is a baddie, which I've also said out loud before. If you are a liberal, you are basically making it impossible for a liberal me to work with you. But of course, it's impossible for you to even consider that I am actually a liberal, so we're at an impasse and I urge you to stop tunneling on me and truly consider the game as if I was a liberal. What are your reads then? If I'm a liberal then who are the fascists? Also your last line there says you need to reconsider PMush because you don't think I'd put two fascists in my fake group of RF/AA/PMush/you. So does that mean you think KB is lying about RF being fascist? If so then you have to think that CPig is also a fascist which means you can't actually think AA is a fascist.
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May 17, 2018 17:58
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CapnAndy posted:Hey so, does anyone feel that this accurately represents your beliefs? I agree with neither group, and RF/AA/me/PMush is a heck of an interesting quartet considering I've called AA out multiple times and still have a gut feeling that PMush is a baddie, which I've also said out loud before. Yeah. This follows mostly with my beliefs. I think Byers and Pig too from what I remember. Maybe others? I think DB was mostly on this page. Think Kumba was a bit different. I mean, are we reading the same thread? Some of us have been pretty open about our top fascist picks. How could you honestly make this post assuming only TMM thinks this? I think most of us have even posted these beliefs within the last two days, so you should even be able to reread them? Like if you aren't a fascist, which I'm still not 100% on, why are you skimming the thread instead of reading for content and retaining the information? I'll give you that I'm not sure the "other group" actually exists. But is that because it really doesn't exist? Or is it because of the people who aren't sharing their opinions(Pmush) or are constantly changing theirs so we can't pin down connections(AA). If I had to say what your stated beliefs are Cap, I'd say you think TMM is your number one fascist pick, and that your #2 and #3 are probably RF and AA. Maybe Pmush for 4th? But it's a bit hard to pin you down too, you've never come out and said who your top 4 fash are, from what I remember? So even you, if my read on you is right, seem to be mostly in line there?
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May 17, 2018 17:59
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On TMM, I'm still hoping we get more info on him at some point. I wasn't able to pass him a liberal card to test him, hopefully Kumba can. I think he's been way too outspoken and contrary early on to be Hitler though. So if he's bad, he's just a normal fascist. I guess if Cap doesn't turn out to be a fascist, then TMM could be in that spot. But having said that, if this was mafia, I'd read TMM as town. This is his town game. So if the same meta features apply to a game of secret hitler, then he's a good guy. The one I'm more worried about is what if somehow Pmush isn't Hitler and is just playing really badly. That opens things up to allow for a really good Hitler player like Byers or Kumba. This is why once we hit the Hitler zone I'm more gung ho on putting folks like Me in instead of the unchallenged very liberal seeming players. But as Byers mentioned, I think it is good to save us for after we enter the Hitler zone rather than right now.
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May 17, 2018 18:20
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Hi, sorry I wasn't around yesterday, I was high on oxycodone for the pain and couldn't think much past shitposting. How far back can I read? (Like, how far down what page, you smartasses.)
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May 17, 2018 18:22
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Dancer posted:Phonepost: a Liberal policy has been passed. I think this post is how far back you can read currently. So middle of page 15? This seems to be the start of Summer. We are currently in Fall.
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May 17, 2018 18:26
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Here's how I see things: If you think KB is telling the truth, then you must think RF is fascist (1). Else, you think KB is the lying fascist (2). If you think 1 and CPig is telling the truth, then you must think RF/AA are fascists. Else, you think 2 which means KB/CPig are both fascists. If you think 1 but think CPig is lying about AA but truthful about KB then you must think RF/CPig are fascists. But I'm not sure why a fascist CPig wouldn't try to cause more confusion over his buddy getting outed unless you think that KB is Hitler. Its impossible to think 2 and think CPig is also telling the truth about KB. So questions for everyone to answer: which person are you? Do you see some possibility in there that I missed? At this point, I think KB/CPig are the ones telling the truth which means I think RF/AA are fascists.
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May 17, 2018 18:30
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King Burgundy posted:I think this post is how far back you can read currently. So middle of page 15? This seems to be the start of Summer. We are currently in Fall. It might be helpful to have the link to the appropriate post in the opening post of the new day btw, Dancer. Thanks!
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May 17, 2018 18:31
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Oh, right, I forgot RF is probably fascist. Okay I retract that case, but I still don't trust you TMM.
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May 17, 2018 18:35
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TMMadman posted:At this point, I think KB/CPig are the ones telling the truth which means I think RF/AA are fascists. I am in this camp
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May 17, 2018 18:45
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King Burgundy posted:It might be helpful to have the link to the appropriate post in the opening post of the new day btw, Dancer. Thanks! It's right there! Unless I hosed up and it's the wrong link.
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May 17, 2018 19:17
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OP was back to being up to date with the start of fall.
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May 17, 2018 19:17
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Dancer posted:It's right there! Unless I hosed up and it's the wrong link. Oh, you put it in the OP, that's even better. I was looking for it on the actual start of season post.
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May 17, 2018 19:18
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TMMadman posted:Here's how I see things: I'm a senario 1 subscriber
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May 17, 2018 19:52
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(1) for me
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May 17, 2018 21:20
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i have not been around much yesterday and today because i am a Newly Promoted Manager and now i get to do the wonderful process of interviewing people, joy should be around more tomorrow, i'll probably do the nom then
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May 17, 2018 21:21
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TMMadman posted:Here's how I see things: Pig is a fascist so either KB is too, or Pig told the truth about KB for no other reason than buying credibility. So a 3rd, pig told truth and is Hitler, and would likely get a nomination from town. Foil is my domain, I can do this all day. The pertinent facts are Pig is lying. Everything else is contingent. KB could still be lib, if Pig is Hitler.
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May 17, 2018 22:12
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Look, I know I look bad, but if you've played mafia, trad games or spoken at any length with me, you'll realize that sticking my foot in my mouth is somewhat my forte... That said, believe what you want regarding pig and myself, but if you read this appeal and recognize it as sincere, then consider the implications of what pig lying means. A. KB/Pig are fascists or one of them is Hitler. B. Pig is a fascist or Hitler and KB is lib, and their play is a play to get Hitler or themselves in office after 3 fascist policies pass. C. I'm a dirty liar Now I know most of you are inclined to believe C, but reread what is allowed and weigh in on my contributions and sincerity here. Also consider the rest of my play, in what world would I have played a fascist policy blocking myself from government so early? It just doesn't make sense, but if fascists are aggressively keeping out libs, it paints a much more telling picture.
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May 17, 2018 22:28
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King Burgundy posted:Yeah. This follows mostly with my beliefs. I think Byers and Pig too from what I remember. Maybe others? I think DB was mostly on this page. Think Kumba was a bit different. You're right; right now my reads fall in line with the RF/AA/Andy as fascist, and likely PMush as Hitler. I was softer on that PMush read before, but as time has gone on and she hasn't really respond to it, it's become more firm.
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May 17, 2018 23:18
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Pig is a fascist so either KB is too, or Pig told the truth about KB for no other reason than buying credibility. I keep hitting a wall when trying to consider this case. Why would a Hitler CPig lie about what was passed to a liberal? Why would a fascist retaliate against Hitler?
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May 17, 2018 23:27
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Okay, a bit of rereading later, here's what I'm thinking. Of RF and KB, I definitely trust RF's relative silence less than KB's fairly active posting, but something about KB is still reading weird to me. And I've got very little to go on but my gut, so, given what I remember from before, here's my proposition. RF is Fascist, KB is Hitler. This was early on, so one of them picked the other, the unspoken plan being to give them both town cred, with RF taking the fall later to "confirm" KB as town, and get them an easy win once Other Fascist and dumb luck all work to get us into the Hitler Zone. But this backfired when they pulled 3 Fascist cards, and were forced to pass one. As for CPig/AA, I'm a lot less sure, but AA's logic isn't making any sense to me, so I'm leaning towards it being him playing the "active but mostly useless townie" angle. Can someone who remembers the card math tell me how likely my theory is?
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May 18, 2018 01:09
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PMush Perfect posted:Okay, a bit of rereading later, here's what I'm thinking. Of RF and KB, I definitely trust RF's relative silence less than KB's fairly active posting, but something about KB is still reading weird to me. And I've got very little to go on but my gut, so, given what I remember from before, here's my proposition. Mostly useless?!  Just think about it.
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May 18, 2018 01:13
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