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It even takes that plot hook with the unbeatable gladitor queen to the logical conclusion, that she's probably self destructing and could really use someone in her corner right now.
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May 18, 2018 04:13
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I believe Mythenders specifies that in this setting, divinity is inherently oppressive and feeds on the misery of humanity; all gods are metal-album-cover versions of themselves who are just intensely awful by nature. Though nothing I saw reading through the free PDF made me think the PCs were any better, it's very much a game of being the Important People surrounded by lesser, weaker crowds whom you defend but are terrified of you, until you get too powerful and become an inherently tyrannous god yourself. There's also some weird stuff where the GM is supposed to insult players who aren't being metal enough iirc
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May 18, 2018 04:15
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That sounds pretty lame.
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May 18, 2018 04:16
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Shame, being heavy metal godslayers should be an awesome concept but having it wrapped up in a lot of bull kills it.
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May 18, 2018 04:25
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yeah, here we go, the horse-hammer:quote:Thousands of feet rushing at us rivaled sounds of thunder. My young comrade Beatrice EDIT: this is kind of where mythender lost me when I first checked it out. There really is a fine line between things being totally awesome and just...saying whatever and then describing huge explosions afterwards. So the tone kind of turned me off the whole thing...which is a shame because I really like the stuff mythender is going for...it's the sort of game I make myself, ridiculously powerful superhumans with little getting in the way of cutting loose and wrecking stuff. But...horse-hammer. oriongates fucked around with this message at 04:34 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 04:27
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Joe Slowboat posted:Though nothing I saw reading through the free PDF made me think the PCs were any better, it's very much a game of being the Important People surrounded by lesser, weaker crowds whom you defend but are terrified of you, until you get too powerful and become an inherently tyrannous god yourself.
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May 18, 2018 04:39
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oriongates posted:yeah, here we go, the horse-hammer: Holy gently caress that's dumb. It reads like bad insert fanfic. 
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May 18, 2018 05:10
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 Well, I guess I'd better get into the setting before y'all get ahead of me. Mythender Part 2: The Mythic World and You The universe of Mythender is encompassed within the Mythic Worlds, primarily Mythic Norden (Norse mythology). Other Mythic Worlds include Mythic Atlantis (Greek myth), Mythic Inca (Mythenders as god-kings), and the Mythic Deep (Lovecraft, but the fish people are throwing off the yoke of the Elder Gods and seek mortality). Importing anything into the present is called the Mythic Now. In the Mythic Worlds, legend is real, gods and monsters battle, and so on throughout their entire existence. Anything of the supernatural- creatures, forces, gods, monsters, whatever- are called Myths. Myths gain power from the terror and awe that they inspire in mortals, and that power granted them absolute dominion. Some mortals were granted the power of Myth, usually as a reward for service and worship. Some would even apotheosize as Mythic gods themselves. Mortals who would not respect the gods were, by and large, culled. Myths and Fate intertwined to control all of existence. At some point, relatively recently in terms of weird-rear end twisted Myth-time (it’s implied to be Glorantha-like in nature, since “history” is called out as a strange magic that bound the Myths away from the mortal world), a faction of mortals began to seize power directly from the mythic world, rather than such power being granted to them. These mortals used their new power to not just kill, but unmake monsters, then gods themselves. As time went on, entire Mythic worlds were destroyed at the hands of those who came to be known as Mythenders. Unfortunately for the Mythenders, the Mythic Worlds are alive, in a fashion- and they would not allow more to perish. The World of Mythic Norden plotted to corrupt the Mythic power that Mythenders drew upon. Now, the Mythic Heart beating inside each Mythender slowly causes them to fall and apotheosize, unwillingly replacing the gods they destroy. I will note here that Mythenders cannot die permanently, unless they choose to do so- but with each return from death, they get closer to the edge of becoming a Myth. So, they kill gods, but who are these guys? Basically, the end-state of any murderhobo. And it’s pretty great.  At some point in their life, every Mythender hit a catastrophic turning point- loss, triumph, even death. At that point, their mortal heart quit beating, and a Mythic Heart started in its place moments later, burning in their chest with newfound power. Mythenders, being the murderous bastards they are, have Weapons. These aren’t necessarily armaments, and if they are, they certainly aren’t anything as simple as a blade. Mythenders’ Weapons are of one of three categories- Innate, Relics, and Companions. We’ll get into mechanics later, but for now we can say that one could have weapons like:
Relic: These can be items of great importance, either to yourself or as part of legend. Examples: My Grandfather’s axe, the crown of a lost kingdom, Odin’s lost eye, the dual blades Excalibur and Caliburn Companion: Either mortals, whose will is now yours to command absolutely, or lesser Myths bound to your service on pain of Ending. Examples: The last of my brothers, The Praetorian Guard, the muzzled Minotaur, the souls of those I have slain We then get some flavorful descriptions of how life is different as a Mythender. It’s not all great, even aside from the whole “the world itself hates you” bit. Mythenders can End Myths permanently, slaughter anything else effortlessly, are free from age, heal immediately after any fight, perform miracles, and can (as aforementioned) straight-up say no to death. They also have great power over other mortals, knowing everything about them, including their entire past and thoughts, at a glance. Even the most earnest, friendly Mythender will draw worship from mortals through their awe-inspiring deeds, and the less benevolent Mythenders inspire terror in kind. That worship grants greater power. In return, the power of a Mythender is always evident. No disguise or concealment will hide a Mythender- Myths and mortals alike can feel their presence. That said, sneak attacks are still an option, but a real ambush is not. Mortals will always, by the pull of Fate, witness Mythic battles and react accordingly, no matter where they might clash. The worship they offer cannot be refused, and the power displayed can easily (and even accidentally) break their wills. Just by existing near people, or even trying to act like a mortal again, Mythenders can turn their former fellows into thralls. Finally, as a Mythender, you cannot escape that role- the Mythic Heart never stops beating until you are slain and choose to not deny death, or else another Mythender chooses that it is time for their ally to End. Also, suicide is not an option, including assisted- you’ll auto-resurrect immediately. Only another power of Myth may kill you, and it must be in earnest. The book then concludes the setting section with a quick glossary of terms and a tale from Wil Wheaton about his session in which they Ended Santa Claus in the Mythic North Pole. The only really good part is the line “Santa Claus wasn’t the monster. I was the monster.” Next time: The surprisingly large pile of things needed to play, then character creation!
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May 18, 2018 05:49
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Jesus Christ That subtitle is so dumb.
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May 18, 2018 06:00
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Mythender is a pretty good example of what 'trying too hard' looks like. It's kind of like taking the try-hardness of WoD's edgey, grim, brooding and applying it to being kickin' rad!!
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May 18, 2018 07:34
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Cultures: Balkhan, pt. 4 Degenesis Rebirth Primal Punk Chapter 2 Dissolution Djuric (of Voivodate Beograd) was not fast enough to act against Bucharest. He didn't know about the African army's destruction; by the time his spies relayed the information, Karakhan was besieging the Stavropoleos church. What follows is a salad of Jehammedan class names. Bucharest was exhausted in fights againt Anabaptists and Africans (somehow), and Bucharest's Iconide's (class name) calls for help went unheeded. He surrendered to Karakhan in two days. Dissolution posted:The same day, the last remaining Isaaki in Bucharest, Arioch, pushes him from the tower of the Church of the Patriarchs as a traitor. Arioch goes into hiding, but “Bucharest remains unvanquished.” Hard to see how it can be considered to be “unvanquished,” as the next paragraph talks about the plight of Bucharest's Abrami (class name). Their sons all... perished? Are tied up in the fight with Anabaptists?... and they can't send their daughters to fight. Karakhan gives the Abrami an offer: he'll declare their women taboo if they swear eternal allegiance to him. Nice guy, that Karakhan  Voivodate Dalmatia Voivodate Dalmatia posted:A mummified hand is on display, index and middle finger crossed and held in place by wire. Next to it is a bundle of bandages, shot through with silver and gold threads, supposedly containing an Anabaptist’s skull. Without getting up, the merchant adds, “There’s an acorn in the jaw.” His display contains only unique pieces: a hilt with a broken blade, mud-encrusted and lacquered; a ram’s horn, dull and dusty blue; a Hybrispanian Mnemonid’s perforated and strung-up mussels; a club with a hundred notches in the hilt. Beneath the stall, more items gather dust in crates. “There is more down there, just pull it out and rummage through.” Now the merchant grins sourly. Apparently, Dalmatia overthrew Jehammedans at some point and looted the vaults of the Iconides for their Icons: tokens of their deals with God. The relics were hot merchandise for some time, but forgeries quickly appeared. So even if the Jahammedans were to retake the city, they wouldn't be able to tell the real Icons from the fakes. Just like with friends in real life, amirite?  Broken And now we learn what actually happened. For the longest time, Jehammedans lived in “in Dalmatia’s dried-up coastal cities” like strangers, with entire quarters being separated from the Balkhani (and their high-impact domestic violence). Supposedly, this was the way since the founding of Dalmatia by the legendary brothers Zlatan. After conquering the Dalmatian clans, one of them remained a worldy fellow, the other became and Isaaki with the Jehammedans and was eventually declared an Iconide. Apparently, the brothers ruled for three generations, because boyar Buzdovan smashed Voivode Zlatan's elderly skull in with a mace and declared freedom. Freedom was followed with killings of anyone who disagreed, assassinations, outlawing of Jehammedans (you get to keep what you loot) and them being sold off into slavery, slaughter of Apocalyptics (not the worst decision, considering that their Burn trade makes them a fifth column element) and eventual betrayal of Anabaptists who may or may not have been literally thrown into a pit of hungry gendos. Titles are given and taken away daily, the bell tolls on the hour of freedom every day and there's a bowl of gold in the market; to touch it means death. I guess this is one way Buzdovan can claim that you can leave a bowl of gold in the street of Dalmatia and nobody would touch it. I bet your conservative dad would love him. Buzdovan is serious about his role as the Great Leader, even forming new rituals customs to show that Dalmatians are, indeed, a distinct people, and that they should stay together instead of getting Balkhanized. Some love the New World Order, others take heart in their dealings in slave trade and black market. Meanwhile, like any good Great Leader, Buzdovan is crazy. He thinks he knows the hour of his death. He keeps an Icon deep under his throne room: it's prophesied that an Isaaki who wears it will topple the Voivode of Dalmatia. Buzdovan doesn't destroy the relic, because he figures that fate would just find some other way to kill him.  Crazy, I tells ya. Turkey Not a lot of talk about alien danger in Balkhans, eh? Well, now we get to know that Psychovore seeds traveled down the Nile and into the Mediterranian sea before sprouting up in Turkey. The plants quickly devoured entire regions, putting into question the African conquest of Turkey. However, there are rumors that the Turks survive in hermetically sealed enclaves. They venture out in suits made of shimmering, bulbous plastic. The Psychovores (the book uses plural) retract vines and needles away from them; the book implies that shimmering comes from a contact poison. The Africans would love to get the formula, but the Turks avoid everyone. Meanwhile, a tanker moored in Kalkan. It carried Neolybians and Spitaliers (I guess they'll work with anyone as long as it ends up killing Primer spawn). Our murder doctors donned their Hygienist suits, went into the forests, took samples and planted wired cartridges. Turkey posted:The experiment will begin soon. I wonder if Spitalians are once again throwing old Recombination Group tech at Primer to see what sticks. Next time: I can't go to Hybrispania, I'm allergic to prescient sea food!
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May 18, 2018 08:03
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Someone mentioned getting their Spire hardcover. Is there going to be a wider print run, softcover or whatever?
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May 18, 2018 08:08
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Yeeeeeah, Mythender sounds like a game made to piss me off.
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May 18, 2018 10:34
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occamsnailfile posted:Someone mentioned getting their Spire hardcover. Is there going to be a wider print run, softcover or whatever? I'm 99% certain there will be copies available for sale at UK Games Expo in a couple of weeks. Not sure how you'll get physical copies elsewhere in the world but they will exist.
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May 18, 2018 10:44
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Yeah, as far as I can tell they're just waiting to finish kickstarter fulfillment and then you'll be able to buy their book online, from http://rowanrookanddecard.com/ if nowhere else.
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May 18, 2018 11:07
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occamsnailfile posted:Someone mentioned getting their Spire hardcover. Is there going to be a wider print run, softcover or whatever? Flavivirus posted:Yeah, as far as I can tell they're just waiting to finish kickstarter fulfillment and then you'll be able to buy their book online, from http://rowanrookanddecard.com/ if nowhere else. The A2 maps as well at some point.
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May 18, 2018 11:12
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...so Mythender is basically God of War: The Tabletop RPG?
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May 18, 2018 11:42
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Mythender looks like Scion dating a first run copy of Deities and Demigods.
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May 18, 2018 12:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:...so Mythender is basically God of War: The Tabletop RPG? Like, they really could have picked a lot of other gods to use there, but nope.
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May 18, 2018 12:40
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I just find ‘actually myths, legends and stories are bad, always, and you should feel bad about them’ is a Bad Pitch.
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May 18, 2018 12:44
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Mors Rattus posted:I just find ‘actually myths, legends and stories are bad, always, and you should feel bad about them’ is a Bad Pitch. That said I actually think they're at least looking towards stuff like Devil May Cry (featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series) and Bayo as much as Dad of Son.
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May 18, 2018 12:55
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I will admit that the notion of the Deep Ones deciding to kill their gods to become mortal elicits a chuckle from me.
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May 18, 2018 13:14
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Just a friendly reminder that there's a Hidden Horse Style for Exalted which is cool and good and is based on protecting your horse friends and using their well-earned trust rather than making them go splat.
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May 18, 2018 14:28
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Mythender seems pretty  to me. I'm going to kill all of the gods with the power of Dialectical Materialism.
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May 18, 2018 14:40
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I like Mythenders a lot. It’s going for a certain tone and if you don’t like the tone, you won’t like the game. Fair enough. Not every game is for everyone. Any game that exalts the ability of mankind to stand up to the immortal tyranny of their masters is fine by me!
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May 18, 2018 14:52
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Bieeanshee posted:Mythender looks like Scion dating a first run copy of Deities and Demigods. Zereth posted:Except that you didn't need to adjust them at all to make the greek gods huge dicks, while Thor is, for a god, a really nice guy, last I checked, and Mythender opened with a vignette about kill Thor. Actually the latest God of War makes Thor into a Dick, along with the rest of the Aesir, but that's more Odin's fault than anyone else's. Also Mimir is a real person, and is also Puck. (The well of knowledge was just a giant bucket of LSD, Odin appreciated the joke)
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May 18, 2018 14:55
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I like Mythenders a lot. It’s going for a certain tone and if you don’t like the tone, you won’t like the game. Fair enough. Not every game is for everyone. See, what I get out of it so far is a persistent subtext of Smug New Atheism in which humanity is far from exalted - most humans are deluded sheep who naturally follow, except for the noble And then the ubermenschen become the cruel tyrants in what is one of two bits of self-awareness in the entire thing, the other being 'maybe murdering Santa is a bad thing.' e: basically, our ability to construct stories and to find wonder and awe and beauty even in the face of a mechanistic universe is the most wonderful, exalted ability of humanity that I can think of. Turning that into a tool of self-oppression in your setting and metaphysically an evil thing is...extremely wrongheaded. Because, again, the human capacity for awe and fear - both healthy human reactions to powerful natural forces - are the source of the bad things in Mythender, these being what create Myth and Myth being unqualified evil apparently. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 15:00 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 14:56
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killing gods is pretty rad, but the heavy metal aspect is meh.
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May 18, 2018 15:08
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Also "Hope is a lie and there's nothing you can do about it you loving sheep" is a really bad look, as Mors said.
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May 18, 2018 15:10
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Mors Rattus posted:See, what I get out of it so far is a persistent subtext of Smug New Atheism in which humanity is far from exalted - most humans are deluded sheep who naturally follow, except for the noble I think this is based on a misreading of the text. What we’ve seen so far is that the Mythenders are empowered by the very same myth-making— their use of artifacts and mythic companions and their own self-belief. The game is saying that human imagination can forge chains that only human imagination can break. Even a Mythender that used Smug Science to defeat gods would, explicitly in setting, not be able to do so because Science is Right and Myth is Wrong. She’d be empowered by her belief in Science and her faith that it had the answers. It’s not a myth-breaking game, despite the title, it’s a myth-making game. Deities overthrowing their cruel forebears and taking their places make up some of the oldest and most persistent myths worldwide. Mythenders is not saying “myth is bad and we don’t need it.” That’s a misreading. It’s saying “we need heroic myths to free us from tyrannical myths” which is absolutely true. The game doesn’t support stripping the awe and wonder out of the universe because of the core mechanic that you handwave as “one bit of self-awareness;” the best you can do is replace one myth with another. Without that it’s a totally different game and one that I might agree with you on. A game that denigrates the human capacity for awe and wonder would be a bad one, but this game isn’t that one. This game is about becoming mythic, not ending myth.
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May 18, 2018 15:12
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Then it is doing an absolutely poo poo job of selling itself; I don't consider 'her comes the new boss, same as the old boss' to be a heroic replacement of a bad myth with a good myth, and that's pretty much what's been said is the inevitable endgame.
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May 18, 2018 15:16
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It’s got an existentialist vibe to it that I can dig. Rage against tyranny, even if you know you will fall to tyranny; struggle even if the struggle is in vain, because your choice to stand up to injustice is what gives life meaning. Existence precedes essence. It’s got a fairly pessimistic view of the world, but that’s not super unusual; plenty of games are set in a world that’s falling apart, where the best you can do is push back the clock, whether that’s the failure of the Golden Throne or the coming of the Fourth Prophet or Gehenna. What matters is what you choose to do in the face of injustice and tyranny. Nevertheless, I don’t think it’s for everyone, and that’s ok. I’d like to hear more about it, even if I don’t end up running/playing it.
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May 18, 2018 15:23
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Yeah, to me that just reinforces the whole 'myth is bad and wrong' vibe I'm getting off it, because the best you can do is...become the new tyrant, your resistance to tyranny become tyranny itself because the entire system is inherently tyrannical, because human awe and belief and wonder and fear are apparently a self-oppression engine. Basically: the text of the game is fighting tyranny to become tyrants and cannot be fixed. The subtext, intentional or not, appears to be 'because humans are idiots for believing and having awe and terror, and this is all the fault of you drat sheeple.' Because, again, Myth is produced by that awe and terror, it is not the cause of it. They explicitly define which comes first and fuels the other, and it means it's all the fault of the folks who believe and feel awe.
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May 18, 2018 15:25
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I don't know, doesn't the book outright state that the Mythenders destroy actual worlds?
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May 18, 2018 15:25
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JcDent posted:I don't know, doesn't the book outright state that the Mythenders destroy actual worlds? Per the text that's been shown so far, they were destroying worlds up until Myth apparently decided to fight back and introduced the "ha ha ha You will become what you hate and your only escape is death!" clause.
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May 18, 2018 15:33
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Mythic Worlds, not the world generally. In fact there's this idea that a magic called 'history' keeps Myth out of the real world, which is in fact the position that only a disenchanted, smugly godless world can win.
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May 18, 2018 16:16
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The explicit mind-control aspects are pretty lovely. Changing that to, "People instinctively know you are a god, with all of the issues that being a god among mortals may bring," would be a better idea. That gives normal people a choice in how they react to a god walking among them. Some might build temples, sure, but others may just want to mug you, because successfully mugging a god is a great way to get street cred. That said, I like the eXTREEEEEM, "This goes up to 11," style they're going for. If you're going to make a game about killing gods, you might as well go whole hog with the power fantasy. Otherwise, you're probably just better off playing Delta Green and throwing the olympians into it. A Delta Green game where the PCs dome Zues with a rocket launcher and another Athena pops out would be pretty badass, now that I think about it.
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May 18, 2018 16:42
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oriongates posted:Mythender is a pretty good example of what 'trying too hard' looks like. it sounds like it's missing the crucial element of the straight man. you need something familiar and relatable to give contrast to all the hardcore batshit stuff that's going on, otherwise the whole thing just becomes nonsense. scion works as an example here, because (at least at low levels) your human responsibilities still matter, which makes your divine powers all the more meaningful. all of the examples given by the book so far don't even seem to indicate that there's any grounding theme for the setting. it reads like the game is played by people doing some kind of freeform word association where they stand around a table and take turns screaming nonsense dream narratives at each other while GWAR plays on the stereo. edit: it's nice pete's lyrics turned into an RPG .gif)
Freaking Crumbum fucked around with this message at 20:16 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 20:10
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Freaking Crumbum posted:edit: it's nice pete's lyrics turned into an RPG
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May 18, 2018 20:19
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Freaking Crumbum posted:it sounds like it's missing the crucial element of the straight man. you need something familiar and relatable to give contrast to all the hardcore batshit stuff that's going on, otherwise the whole thing just becomes nonsense. scion works as an example here, because (at least at low levels) your human responsibilities still matter, which makes your divine powers all the more meaningful. I don't want to be an apologist for the game or anything- I will be calling out some serious bullshit later on- but I should jump in here. There's, oddly enough, a mechanical subsystem for seeking sympathy and showing your humanity to mortals. It can get pretty grounded- one player's Mythender, kid Montezuma, sought out and bandaged a crying child who scraped his knee at Mythic Disney World, when they could easily have just healed him with Aztec sun magic if they cared at all. Between fights, everyone has an opportunity to have such moments, which clears some of their corruption track. We'll get to that system later, but it's really not called out to the reader at all- it hasn't gotten more than passing mentions in the glossary and "how to use this book" bits. OutOfPrint posted:A Delta Green game where the PCs dome Zeus with a rocket launcher and another Athena pops out would be pretty badass, now that I think about it. That is an excellent notion.
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May 18, 2018 20:29
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