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PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
As my NAS is filling, I guess it's time to finish upgrading all the disks to 4TB and rebuild the array to a higher capacity. I need three of 'em, any reason why I shouldn't get this bundle on newegg for 3x WD Red 4tb? Better drives, better prices, anything?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3608312

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astral
Apr 26, 2004

PerrineClostermann posted:

As my NAS is filling, I guess it's time to finish upgrading all the disks to 4TB and rebuild the array to a higher capacity. I need three of 'em, any reason why I shouldn't get this bundle on newegg for 3x WD Red 4tb? Better drives, better prices, anything?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3608312

If the 8TB WD easystores are still shuckable good drives, look into those.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

astral posted:

If the 8TB WD easystores are still shuckable good drives, look into those.

Looks like a bit of a lottery, plus they're more expensive. I'm tossing these into a FreeNAS machine that's already got half the drives upgraded to 4TB, so to get any real benefit to the 8TB, I'd have to buy 6x of them. I'll have to remember these though, as not all my storage needs are FreeNAS-based.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Nothing wrong with WD reds, I've been using them for years and years.

I'd still look at the lowest $/GB personally, even if you don't fully utilize the drives yet. Consider it an investment in a future upgrade, perhaps?

I personally like the 8TB HGST from Goharddrive. They're refurbs but they apply their own warranty, and they seem to have a solid history of good customer service.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.
So, to go back to my original enquiry: nobody has any reasons not to use Synology's native folder encryption on a folder that I use to keep my personal docs in?

Forgive my caution, but I had a firstgen WD MyBook backup drive with built-in encryption that had a minor bug that it occasionally it become unencryptable and the data was lost forever.

Aragaith
Jul 26, 2006

Kirisame Marisa.
In space.
Help.
Got a question for you all. I'm looking for a raid5 controller that isn't complete garbage for specs. This is to fill in for replacement of failing hardware for a camera system that is on a short budget so I can't sadly spec out a separate freenas machine for storage purposes, have to add this to a windows 7 box and all I have found are software raid controllers or hardware ones that only support 2TB max raid size.

Last person who set this system up just used a giant pile of random sized hard drives and some are failing so we are trying to swap it over to 3x4TB drives in raid 5 so there is some local redundancy.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Aragaith posted:

Got a question for you all. I'm looking for a raid5 controller that isn't complete garbage for specs. This is to fill in for replacement of failing hardware for a camera system that is on a short budget so I can't sadly spec out a separate freenas machine for storage purposes, have to add this to a windows 7 box and all I have found are software raid controllers or hardware ones that only support 2TB max raid size.

Last person who set this system up just used a giant pile of random sized hard drives and some are failing so we are trying to swap it over to 3x4TB drives in raid 5 so there is some local redundancy.

Spend 500-700 on whatever Avago is putting out from their old LSI line. Are you sure you don't have budget for a Linux software raid device? You're not far off if you already have disks.

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

spog posted:

So, to go back to my original enquiry: nobody has any reasons not to use Synology's native folder encryption on a folder that I use to keep my personal docs in?

Forgive my caution, but I had a firstgen WD MyBook backup drive with built-in encryption that had a minor bug that it occasionally it become unencryptable and the data was lost forever.

We had issues in our office with on board encryption. Things have moved on but I think you've identified the main risk of data loss. Use non-native encryption if data loss is the highest priority. However native encryption is fast so if you need fast file access and encryption it can be a good combination (also a good lazy option).

However the 3-2-1 backup rule should still apply. 3 backups, 2 on-site and 1 off-site if you don't want to lose data.

phongn
Oct 21, 2006

For those interested, here's an update on ZFS device removal and RAID-Z expansion

G-Prime
Apr 30, 2003

Baby, when it's love,
if it's not rough it isn't fun.
That was actually a great watch. Sounds significantly more sane than what I vaguely remember reading about block pointer rewrite.

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA

G-Prime posted:

That was actually a great watch. Sounds significantly more sane than what I vaguely remember reading about block pointer rewrite.

Yeah, but the dude needs a public speaking class. Yeah, um uhhh, the thing does the, um, X, and uhhhhh a thing happens.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost
I’m certainly a lot more interested in his code quality than his speech quality. On the other hand, it doesn’t hurt to have a certain basic level of speaking skills when there’s nobody else that will speak up for you. It’s not like Oracle will pay someone to be a product manager for the project when all signs point toward them defunding it completely in favor of cloud and database technologies (even Java is barely on life support compared to Sun’s support).

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Doesn't Matt work at Delphix, which is only one of many companies and foundations commiting code to OpenZFS? Aside from that, OpenZFS and OracleZFS have less than 50% code in common nowadays, so even if Oracle wanted to opensource their ZFS, its not like OpenZFS will benefit from it since it'd be a huge task to merge the codebases and since OpenZFS is has evolved all but the inline encryption features that OracleZFS has.

devilmouse
Mar 26, 2004

It's just like real life.
Matt's the main dude behind ZFS, going all the way back to its start.

Namedrop: we also sat next to each other in CS classes. He was much smarter than me :eng99:

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Matt and Jeff Bonwick are ZFS' fathers, yeah. Jeff hired Matt straight out of university to work on it, and they were responsible for most of the code for the first few years until it was production-safe enough that Sun started using it in-house in 2003.

I was just confused, because Oracle's never really had much to do with OpenZFS and at least Matt never had much to do with Oracle. I have no idea what Jeff is up to these days, but I don't think he's at Oracle anymore, and hasn't been for quite a while.

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 21:00 on May 23, 2018

devilmouse
Mar 26, 2004

It's just like real life.
Jeff started another company with a few of the Sun guys, iirc. But to answer your original question, yeah, Matt is at Delphix (where the CTO was one of the other Sun Skunkworks guys who did DTrace and a bunch of other stuff). I think most of them left Oracle 10+ years ago.

Rescue Toaster
Mar 13, 2003
Man I'm feeling bad about FreeNAS today. I had one my Samsung Spinpoint F4's get removed from a volume a week ago, and turned off the box and ordered a new seagate drive to replace it.

Today I booted it back up and it immediately put it back into the volume, resilvered, and ~30-40 minutes later reported everything OK. Smart data shows very elevated:

Program_Fail_Cnt_Total (about 22,000 raw value)
G-Sense_Error_Rate (about 48,000 raw value)

One other drive shows a slightly elevated fail count and g-sense error rate, the other drives are basically 0. There are no actual smart errors or reallocated sectors anywhere.

FreeNAS of course keeps no logs persistently (why ever would you do that?) so I've really no idea what happened. Probably going to add my new replacement drive as a hot spare if it lets me do that.

Rescue Toaster fucked around with this message at 00:03 on May 24, 2018

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull
Program_Fail_Cnt_Total is typically an attribute only found on SSDs. Are you sure that's really from a HDD (or that your SMART reporting tool doesn't have its wires crossed)?

(if it is a SSD, that's a dying SSD)

Aragaith
Jul 26, 2006

Kirisame Marisa.
In space.
Help.

H110Hawk posted:

Spend 500-700 on whatever Avago is putting out from their old LSI line. Are you sure you don't have budget for a Linux software raid device? You're not far off if you already have disks.

Turns out I was an idiot and forgot about the linux route using zoneminder for the CCTV software. Thank you. Been a crazy work week deploying windows 10 everywhere for my other job.

Rescue Toaster
Mar 13, 2003

BobHoward posted:

Program_Fail_Cnt_Total is typically an attribute only found on SSDs. Are you sure that's really from a HDD (or that your SMART reporting tool doesn't have its wires crossed)?

(if it is a SSD, that's a dying SSD)

It's definitely a Samsung spinpoint. It's certainly possible smartctl on FreeNAS is reporting it wrong, though? Not sure who decides what to name what. (If those strings are in the drive itself or only in the tool.) I'll double check the hex code for that line today. Searching around more I found a old Hard OCP forum thread about my exact drive HD204UI where people are seeing all kinds of random huge values for (B5) Program Fail Cnt. It is suspicious though that this one drive is the one that was dropped from the volume, and it has those two values significantly elevated, but no actual error values anywhere.

Rescue Toaster fucked around with this message at 13:21 on May 24, 2018

Fragrag
Aug 3, 2007
The Worst Admin Ever bashes You in the head with his banhammer. It is smashed into the body, an unrecognizable mass! You have been struck down.
To the people running Duplicati on a Synology NAS, does updating the system still wipe out your settings?

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003
Anyone have any recommendations on external 6-8 drive enclosures? USB3/UASP preferably though SATA would work as well. There's some stuff on Amazon that looks like it'd fit the bill but the prices are all over the place and I've never heard of like 90% of the brands.

Sheep fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jun 1, 2018

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
I don't really have any recommendations as I tend to like off the shelf solutions these days. I'd be wary of a case that doesn't show an open side or open case. Could be good or could be bad.

Devian666 fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Jun 1, 2018

wolfbiker
Nov 6, 2009
I put three StarTech five-drive hot swap enclosures in my server many years ago (10+) and they've been working fine ever since with no issues, FWIW.

Edit: could one of those USB3 hard drive enclosures be plugged into a router and shared that way? My RT-AC68U has a USB3 port and that got me thinking.

wolfbiker fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Jun 1, 2018

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

wolfbiker posted:

Edit: could one of those USB3 hard drive enclosures be plugged into a router and shared that way? My RT-AC68U has a USB3 port and that got me thinking.

Not sure about the 68U specifically, but many routers are really only set up to recognize a single drive connected via USB and get confused if you try to connect up something that presents more than one drive at a time. Might work, though! But performance, even if it works, is typically pretty bad compared to an actual NAS.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Sheep posted:

Anyone have any recommendations on external 6-8 drive enclosures? USB3/UASP preferably though SATA would work as well. There's some stuff on Amazon that looks like it'd fit the bill but the prices are all over the place and I've never heard of like 90% of the brands.

What are you trying to accomplish here and what is your budget? A synology 8-bay enclosure will get you 8 bays converted into smb/afp/nfs, but no usb-out for $1000 (plus drives.)

https://smile.amazon.com/Synology-DiskStation-DS1817-8GB-Diskless/dp/B06Y4TJL54/

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003
Budget is under 500. I'm just trying to get a bunch of disks to present to an attached computer as raw devices so I can put them into an mdadm array. I've got this which does exactly what I want, except for four drives. While I could always just get a second, I'd prefer to have them all in one enclosure for sanity's sake.

Not looking for any sort of NAS situation since I have Infiniband running here and I'm not at all interested in trying to shoehorn an IB card into some NAS setup.

fatman1683
Jan 8, 2004
.

Sheep posted:

Budget is under 500. I'm just trying to get a bunch of disks to present to an attached computer as raw devices so I can put them into an mdadm array. I've got this which does exactly what I want, except for four drives. While I could always just get a second, I'd prefer to have them all in one enclosure for sanity's sake.

Not looking for any sort of NAS situation since I have Infiniband running here and I'm not at all interested in trying to shoehorn an IB card into some NAS setup.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B005GYDMYG/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all&qid=1424442321&sr=8-1

e: Newegg has a much better deal on this one
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817576012

e again: this is the version with the controller, but it says it supports JBOD
https://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-ProRaid-H8R2-SU3S2-External-Enclosure/dp/B005GYDMYQ


https://www.amazon.com/Sans-Digital...0_&dpSrc=detail

fatman1683 fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jun 2, 2018

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012

So my Synology units are only getting accessed for a couple hours 2 or 3 times a week. The rest of the time I'd like to have the drives spun down and the units consuming a minimum in power, mostly for wear and tear reasons. I tried the "advanced HDD hibernation" mode, but it takes ~20 seconds to start up and respond when you try to access them – fine for me but not for family who will get errors when they try to access content. Whats the best way to minimize wear and tear / power use while still having the units be responsive?

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003



Having the drives spin down and up causes more wear and tear than spinning continuously. Unless the power use or heat is unacceptable you're better off disabling spindown.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

So my Synology units are only getting accessed for a couple hours 2 or 3 times a week. The rest of the time I'd like to have the drives spun down and the units consuming a minimum in power, mostly for wear and tear reasons. I tried the "advanced HDD hibernation" mode, but it takes ~20 seconds to start up and respond when you try to access them – fine for me but not for family who will get errors when they try to access content. Whats the best way to minimize wear and tear / power use while still having the units be responsive?

What is erroring out so quickly? Ours is mounted video NFS for plex, afp on macs, and smb on windows all the time and nothing errors out. It just stalls while the disks spin up.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE
Sounds like the error you get when an SMB drive is mounted but the connection is expired and you need to open the drive in Explorer before applications can use it.

Nasty Old Randy
Sep 5, 2017

Im Nasty

wolfbiker posted:

I put three StarTech five-drive hot swap enclosures in my server many years ago (10+) and they've been working fine ever since with no issues, FWIW.

You are very brave.
StarTech is basically Cinco from Tim and Eric. Everything they sell is rebadged and usually hilariously low quality.
I bought a case of 25 StarTech gigabit network cards at work and every single one failed in a year and one literally exploded.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
On the flipside I have a StarTech USB card that's working well.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002

by Fluffdaddy
I got all confused because I have some great iStar SATA hot swap bays for my file server. Rock solid units and definitely not StarTech.

wolfbiker
Nov 6, 2009
Actually I think the hot swaps I bought are iStar now that I think about it.

RoboBoogie
Sep 18, 2008
Hello!

I am looking for a NAS for my father's small business, he needs a storage solution for archived data that may need to be referenced (manual backup), space to back up his laptop on a regular basis (hopefully automated), and to handle surveillance video (3 cameras 640x480, looking to upgrade and expand).

I wanted to see if you guys have any recommendations for an off the shelf solution (ex QNAP, Synology) that would be the best fit. We are looking to do RAID 5 or RAID 6 and have a good surveillance video tools

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
I'm bit of a fan of QNAP after my good experiences this year but I understand Synology have similar features and is also easy to use.

It sounds like at least a 4 bay NAS is needed. The following link is for the lower cost models but they have an SMB mid range selection with more features.
https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/series/home

For QNAP their utility allows for easy drive mapping on the network. They have Qsync which allows you to create a folder that is replicated on the NAS, and it's all automatic. The folder can be synced with other computers as well so there could be multiple copies.

The low end models come with 2 IP camera licenses and you'd need to purchase another license for the third camera. The higher end models come with more licenses by default but you just purchase what you need. A TS-431P2 could be a good fit but it depends on how much storage is actually needed.

RoboBoogie
Sep 18, 2008

Devian666 posted:

I'm bit of a fan of QNAP after my good experiences this year but I understand Synology have similar features and is also easy to use.

It sounds like at least a 4 bay NAS is needed. The following link is for the lower cost models but they have an SMB mid range selection with more features.
https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/series/home

For QNAP their utility allows for easy drive mapping on the network. They have Qsync which allows you to create a folder that is replicated on the NAS, and it's all automatic. The folder can be synced with other computers as well so there could be multiple copies.

The low end models come with 2 IP camera licenses and you'd need to purchase another license for the third camera. The higher end models come with more licenses by default but you just purchase what you need. A TS-431P2 could be a good fit but it depends on how much storage is actually needed.

Have you tried the surveillance feature on the QNAP? how reliable is it ?

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Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
I haven't tried it myself as I have a standalone security solution that I bought before the NAS.

In terms of reliability there seems to be some positive feedback and discussion on the whirlpool forums. There's also the suggestion to check that any existing cameras are compatible.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2399259

An article discussing QNAP versus a dedicated solution.
https://www.vueville.com/home-security/cctv/nvr/nas-nvr-dedicated-nvr-better/

In general I've found their applications to be reliable and where there are issues they do issue patches regularly both for the NAS OS and the apps.

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