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when bethesda actually set their game in an amusement park for FO4's Nuka World DLC I actually enjoyed it because it didn't feel like everything was a poor facsimile of reality - because it was supposed to be. Also Far Harbor was good somehow
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May 20, 2018 19:19
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Remember when the hillbillies in the FO3 DLC were bigger bullet sponges than anything else in the game
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May 20, 2018 19:36
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Improbable Lobster posted:Remember when the hillbillies in the FO3 DLC were bigger bullet sponges than anything else in the game God this was the worst part of Point Lookout, I loved everything else about the DLC but those sponges ruined it for me. Like I had dressed up for the occasion, light armor & Lincoln's Repeater, but the bullet sponges ended up forcing me to do a return trip to DC so I could grab my power armor & heavy energy weaponry which completely ruined the feel of the place
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May 20, 2018 20:14
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Xander77 posted:What does everyone think re: Fallout 3 not being quite as bad as everyone says? I think that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLJ1gyIzg78
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May 21, 2018 00:03
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aniviron posted:Fallout 3 is not the masterwork that FNV is, but I do largely agree with the video: It's not a bad game, it's not even a bad Fallout game. It's quite a good game, it just gets outshined by FNV in most regards. But you can't have opinions like that on the internet, if it's not as good as the other game it must be garbage. This makes me wish I hadn't started with new vegas because I have 3 and can't get through more than a few minutes of it without getting bored or frustrated because of some missing NV feature
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May 21, 2018 00:13
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Being a old school Fallout 1&2 fan I didn't know what to expect with Fallout 3. When I got and played it I thought it was ok, but afterwards I felt burned out. Looking back the main plot was a railroad, the game lacked a lot of the charm the originals had and it bored me. I personally hated the subway sections and just found the DC ruins a grind more than anything. Also the ham fisted morality system just pissed me off more than anything. I also got sick of 3 dog very fast. That being said, point look out was good fun, broken steel had its moments and...... Actually that is all I can come up with. I went into New Vegas not expecting much and was sucker punched by obsidian, whom made in my opinion, a game which was the spiritual sequel to originals in everything but name. Its my favourite game for a reason. For that reason I'm not touching Fallout 4, as I honestly think Bethesda suck at making Fallout games.
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May 21, 2018 00:32
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This guy pissed me off with his bit at the end about Josh Sawyer in the making of. Sawyer says "a lot of people liked Fallout 3" and smirks, and the guy thinks that's him smirking at the idiots for liking Fallout 3. If you watch the actual making of video, Sawyer is clearly smirking at the understatement (Fallout 3 was insanely popular) and repeats for emphasis "a lot of people liked Fallout 3" Anyway, Ulysses 4 lyfe
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May 21, 2018 00:36
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I had fun with the Bethesda Fallout games but imagine if the next, non Kojima Metal Gear game became really popular and had terrible writing with none of the little quirks that made you like the previous games. Like, it might not even be a bad game, but boy wouldn't you hate that? Then imagine if Kojima came back and made the best Metal Gear game, only to go away forever again.
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May 21, 2018 01:30
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I enjoyed Fallout 3 when it came out, and it definitely did a lot of things well-the basic gameplay was fun, the aesthetics were neat, and it had a bunch of vertical combat environments in the DC area that New Vegas sorely lacked. But with that said, I have a hard time replaying it because the writing is so bad. There's effectively very little grey area between 'mustache-twirling evil' and 'saccharine goody two-shoes' in much of the dialogue options, the main plot is ludicrously terrible, and most of the quests are either unmemorable or simply not that great. Also, the weapon design was pretty terrible. Why did the .32 pistol or the Chinese pistol exist? Why was the Assault Rifle just straight-up worse than the Chinese Assault Rifle? Why were there so few shotguns? Bethesda!  In the end, though, Fallout 3 is what allowed New Vegas to exist, so it's hard to get too mad at it.
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May 21, 2018 01:58
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It did setpieces exceedingly well. It just didn't have much else going on.
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May 21, 2018 02:08
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Also, the weapon design was pretty terrible. Why did the .32 pistol or the Chinese pistol exist? Why was the Assault Rifle just straight-up worse than the Chinese Assault Rifle? Why were there so few shotguns? Bethesda! 1) So raiders had something to shoot at you without breaking the economy, just like the 9mm Browning in FNV. 2) Same reason the cowboy repeater is straight up worse than the brush gun, it's an RPG so some guns are meant to be upgrades to others. 3) is completely inexcusable though, especially since shotguns turned out to be really satisfying in FO3. Speaking of, and I know I'm going to be tarred and feathered for saying that something is better in FO3 than FNV ITT, but FNV's shotguns were really bad because of the DT system. Yes, FNV had more variety. Yes, Shotgun Surgeon and And Stay Back sort of mitigated the problem, but no other gun in the game requires two perks just to do its job at a baseline level, and those are perks you could well invest into making the guns that are already good even better. Even stuff like pulse slugs and dragon's breath were super disappointing.
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May 21, 2018 02:23
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Flechette rounds and Cowboy perk.
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May 21, 2018 03:30
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I totally agree, DT is a bad system in a series with rifles and machineguns as weapon choices.
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May 21, 2018 03:41
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I'm mostly unhappy with the one-two punch of pure jank and cut core material that plague 3, NV, and to some somewhat lesser extent, 4. 4's writing is just atrocious, way worse than 3. 3 was simplistic and shallow, but coherent. 4 is a mess, and almost never a fun one. I still can't tell what they were trying to do thematically. Yeah, noir elements, yeah, robots, but nothing is actually said or developed with any of the concepts that the game raises, and the core plotline requires pretty much every faction to be colossal psychotic morons.
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May 21, 2018 03:50
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It's rough, IMO 3 is better but only because it's not trying to reach beyond its scope. You don't get that disappointment of "there's a good story half-finished here", you just murderhobo your way through the world and side with antwomen or robomen. Meanwhile FO4 has potential for interesting writing in most of the factions, but all of it just peters out halfway through. I didn't care too much for point lookout personally, I just wasn't a fan of the idea that there's a league of elites that survived the apocalypse and are Spy Wars-ing each other.
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May 21, 2018 03:58
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aniviron posted:1) So raiders had something to shoot at you without breaking the economy, just like the 9mm Browning in FNV. They could have easily accomplished this without making the guns completely worthless though-even in your comparison, the 9mm Browning is a decently useful weapon for the early game, since ammo is cheap, the gun fires decently quickly and does alright damage, and it can be upgraded with handy mods. The .32 pistol and Chinese pistol by comparison are strictly worse than the gun you start with, and in the Chinese pistol's case fires the exact same rounds. There is just no reason for the player to use them in a game where there aren't a ton of guns to begin with, and it especially sucks because the .32 is the only non-scoped revolver in the game (Excluding the uniques in the DLCs) and the Chinese pistol is a goddamn broomhandle Mauser that I would have loved to use if it wasn't so completely terrible. quote:2) Same reason the cowboy repeater is straight up worse than the brush gun, it's an RPG so some guns are meant to be upgrades to others. But again, the Cowboy Repeater and the Brush gun are distinct from each other in that the CR is an early game weapon with high DPS and plentiful ammo, while the Brush Gun (And Trail Carbine before it) are later-game weapons with rarer/more expensive ammunition, lower DPS, and higher skill requirements. Sorry for ragging on you for this-these are somewhat granular distinctions. The guns in Fallout 3 just really disappointed me, and it's one of the areas where the thought that went into the design of New Vegas really shines through-they put a billion guns in the game for every kind of playstyle, balanced them against each other, and even created actually unique variations of most of those weapons. It just puts the design of Fallout 3 and 4 to shame, and it's one of the reasons why I won't even think about going back to Fallout 3 without TTW. Oh and also, re: shotguns: Solid slugs. Solid slugs all day.
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May 21, 2018 04:38
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Neurolimal posted:I totally agree, DT is a bad system in a series with rifles and machineguns as weapon choices. I'll still take the DT system over Damage resistance and rising health bars that fallout 4 does.
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May 21, 2018 05:12
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Before New Vegas came around, I thought Fallout 3 had a pretty decent variety of weapons, with a profound lack of shotguns being the most obvious drawback. In this case the comparison to New Vegas doesn't feel 100% fair, though, because the New Vegas devs weren't building the whole arsenal from scratch but rather appending to FO3's list, and they also had some ability to look at FO3 mods to see what people liked to do there.
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May 21, 2018 05:18
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Xander77 posted:What does everyone think re: Fallout 3 not being quite as bad as everyone says? In short - F3 is more chaotic, feels like you're exploring stuff in a desolate wasteland, which (as our lord and savior Chris Avellone said) is what fallout should be about. The points, more or less in chronological order: 1. The opening is actually good, not bad - learning there are multiple solutions to problems, stepping out of the vault. (No mention of overseer motivation or plot logic) 2. The Megaton questline is good and well written, because there are consequences to your action. 3. "My favorite part was when he pointed out how the Vault 87 Supermutants were essentially the Master's nightmare come true. They're sterile, out of FEV, and the brighter ones who normally would have become leaders have instead become outcasts. I also liked how he pointed out that the supermutants are mirroring the main quest from Fallout 1. They're vault dwellers who have been forced to leave their home in search for a replacement for a piece of technology that's critical for their survival. In both cases these are technologies associated with liquid (water and liquid FEV, respectively), and they're searching for other vaults because that's where they think FEV comes from (that's why you can find them fighting their way through Vault-Tec HQ, they're trying to find maps). There's also the part where everyone in the vault is killed by one or more outsiders, which also sorta works as a parallel" 4. The isolationism v helping out the wasteland issue was a constant theme regarding the BoS. Not only is the F3 faction repeatedly established as outlier, but all things consider, there's absolutely nothing implausible about said outlier. Even the F1 ending (I forgot just about everything about F1, having only played it once) makes a point of the Brotherhood becoming involved in a benevolent fashion. (Actually agree with this one, brought it up before) 5. Ok, the ending kinda sucks, but Autumn is established better than Laneus, you can keep playing after the end, and Betsheda has been kind enough to listen to complaints and change things. 6. Having cinematic moments isn't bad, and F:NV actually lacks those (particularly for emphasizing the importance of locations and accomplishments) 7. F:NV has fewer types of mechanical rewards for random exploration (agree, I'm not fond of the cave-mine-shack locations). F3 is also less free with money and ammo, so any sort of loot is welcome, which encourages you to explore. 8. Equally good writing (!) since most of F3's better quests are in side areas the game doesn't direct you towards. 9. F:NV doesn't have a lot of quests where the decisions are explicitly phrased as a question of morals - ergo, morality doesn't play a part in deciding quest outcomes. F3 doesn't have factions, so you decide quests on their own merits rather than terms of who benefits from the outcome. 10. Furthermore, utter clusterfucks like letting the ghouls into Tenpenny tower are actually complexly written quests with shades of grey in them, betraying your expectations. Since neutral karma is preferable to either extreme in some ways, you actual roleplay quest outcomes instead of always going with the good / evil solution (which isn't necessarily always obvious either, see above) 11. F3 feeling like it takes place 20 years after the war rather than 200 is actually a plus. It's a post-apocalyptic game, not a post-post-apocalyptic game. Everything is still in ruins, full of monsters and radiation, which is more interesting. A lot of grim empty space, a lot of reminders that the world bathed in nuclear fire was, in fact, a world. 12. More chaotic wasteland, can't be sure what's coming at you at any point. Creatures roam further, you have expanded possibilities for random spawns and odd encounters. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 09:34 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 09:05
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Xander77 posted:4. The isolationism v helping out the wasteland issue was a constant theme regarding to BoS. Not only is the F3 faction repeatedly established as outlier, but all things consider, there's absolutely nothing implausible about said outlier. Even the F1 ending (I forgot just about everything about F1, having only played it once) makes a point of the Brotherhood becoming involved in a benevolent fashion. (Actually agree with this one, brought it up before) Very on-board with this. It's not more realistic or better writing to make everyone and every situation cynical. The rise and downfall of the Lyon faction is an interesting and believable premise. Though I believe there's a nonzero chance that the reason the new young Maxxon went against the Lyons was because he's a resentful incel and she rejected him
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May 21, 2018 09:23
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Man I disagree so hard with that list it was almost physically painful to read.
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May 21, 2018 09:33
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Fallout 3 is green. I liked the weird little cities and their weird little quests, but disliked DC and Mothership zeta and then my save file committed suicide near the end of The Pitt (a good DLC). I moved on to the DLCs after the Enclave attacked the water purifier, so I don't know what happens after that. I would really like to play non-TOTW fallout 3 some day, without all the crashing and save file corruption, because it feels like there's a good game beneath all the technical issues.
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May 21, 2018 10:17
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I like how intelligent super mutants can be in New Vegas. Unless I’m visiting the wrong areas, they’re all brain dead fantasy ogres in Fallout 4.
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May 21, 2018 13:40
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buglord posted:I like how intelligent super mutants can be in New Vegas. Unless I’m visiting the wrong areas, they’re all brain dead fantasy ogres in Fallout 4. They at least had the sense to provide an explanation for this (they're all Institute test subjects, and as such have had close to 200 years for radiation to gently caress up the FEV process, and the one Institute person to mutant themselves stays intelligent because the institute is basically a vault) but it's still pretty boring, yeah. The most damning thing is that Strong is one of the companions that they didnt even bother writing a quest for.
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May 21, 2018 13:49
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Malpais Legate posted:Man I disagree so hard with that list it was almost physically painful to read. Nearly ever single point is wrong. I mean holy poo poo, what could make anyone think posting this quote:8. Equally good writing (!) since most of F3's better quests are in side areas the game doesn't direct you towards.
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May 21, 2018 14:08
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Were there even any Fallout 3 quests that weren't 'Go here, kill this thing, take this object, return for reward' ? There sure as hell wasn't anything nearly as memorable as 'Return to Sender' or 'Arizona Killer'
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May 21, 2018 15:53
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Republic of Dave
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May 21, 2018 15:54
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I guess the vampire quest was pretty neat, except I just hated it because I'm not a fan of vampires in Fallout.
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May 21, 2018 16:37
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Uhh let's see -Tenpenny Tower - the slavers at the Lincoln memorial - the Android one -Harold Off the top of my head those quests all require talking/skill use as much or more than combat, and have multiple resolutions. There's other ones like the Big Town quest where there is only one end really (protect the NPCs from the mutants) but there's multiple ways it can play out based on your skills. You can just fight the mutants off, reprogram some scrap robots, hide from them, etc
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May 21, 2018 16:54
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2house2fly posted:Uhh let's see Actually I think you'll find the resolution for all quests involving slavers is to kill all the slavers while wearing Abraham Lincoln's hat.
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May 21, 2018 17:05
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Were there even any Fallout 3 quests that weren't 'Go here, kill this thing, take this object, return for reward' ? There sure as hell wasn't anything nearly as memorable as 'Return to Sender' or 'Arizona Killer'
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May 21, 2018 17:19
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I think any charitable view of F3 is reliant on putting it into the context of the time it was released--prior to F3, Fallout was effectively dead, and there had only been one Oblivion-style open-world sandbox dungeon crawler from Bethesda at the time, and the whole idea of exploring a post-apocalyptic world in that style was new and exciting, at least to me. Unfortunately for F3, NV came along and outclassed F3 in every single way, which kinda rendered F3 utterly obsolete. But I had a lot of fun with F3 and its DLC (minus Mothership Zeta) in that short period of time after its release but before NV's release, and it effectively paved the way for NV, which is probably my favorite game ever, so kudos to Bethesda and F3 for that. In fact, I think that I have fonder memories of F3 than I do of F4, in spite of 4's combat and general QoL improvements. It seems like Bethesda actually showed some restraint with 3 when compared to 4, and that made it a more coherent experience when compared to the bloated mess that is Fallout 4. 3's Dadquest story was pretty lame and heavy-handed with the self-sacrifice imagery, but it was broad enough that it allowed for some actual role playing, and it also lent itself pretty well to an open-world sandbox experience--the player character could either take a "gotta find dad pronto" stance and beeline the main story, or they could take a "no you shut the gently caress up dad, you abandoned me, I'll get around to finding you when I'm good and ready" stance and do all the exploring/side quests without it seeming weird or contradictory. 4, on the other hand, took much more of an "everything but the kitchen sink" approach to gameplay and story, and it's worse off for it. Trying to cram the player into a railroaded, personal story via voice acting, a super-specific origin story, Sonquest, fish-out-of-water story, and whatever the gently caress they were trying to do with the Institute and the other main factions was too much of a stark contrast with their attempt to make their sandy-est and boxy-est sandbox yet. The Diablo-style loot system and the relatively uninteresting dungeons sucked away any interest I had in exploring, and the combat was good for a Bethesda game, but still light years behind any other studios creating modern first-person combat games--so what the hell are you even left with at that point? The godawful settlement system? No thanks, I'll just go play NV again Why, no, I am not a fan of Fallout 4, how could you tell? 
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May 21, 2018 17:39
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Sheen Sheen posted:The godawful settlement system? This is half the reason why im putting up with all the other terrible parts of FO4. I even installed a storyline mod which removes all references to Sean being my kid because god that entire thing is insufferable. Im likely brokebrained in liking settlement building so much, but it feels so good, good enough to deal with the fact that I hate most of FO4s characters, aside from Ironsides and Hancock.
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May 21, 2018 19:08
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Neurolimal posted:They at least had the sense to provide an explanation for this (they're all Institute test subjects, and as such have had close to 200 years for radiation to gently caress up the FEV process, and the one Institute person to mutant themselves stays intelligent because the institute is basically a vault) but it's still pretty boring, yeah. Lily didn't get a personal quest either, though she was involved in Doc Henry's quest. Super Mutants in Fallout 4 seem weird to me, since they're the Institute's brand of FEV rejects, but the sheer number of them dumped into the Commonwealth makes me wonder if anyone noticed entire communities getting scooped up and vanishing before the Synths even became a thing. They don't breed, after all.
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May 21, 2018 19:33
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Lily technically has a quest in the same way Raul does; it ends with you deciding if she should take her pills or not.
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May 21, 2018 19:42
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Fair enough. I certainly like most of the companions in Fallout 4. They definitely have the best writing in the base game. Granted some of their personal quests have rather questionable timescales, (Maccready your son has probably been dead for months considering how long you've been in the commonwealth with me), or outright retarded conclusions like Nick's quest, but overall they're definitely better thought out than the main plot.
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May 21, 2018 19:45
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I tend to agree that Fallout 3's quest design is very good (in fact, I can't think of a Bethesda game with better quest design off the top of my head) and unfairly maligned by the fans. Sure, New Vegas is better (though it does have its share of simplistic side quests for quantity and pacing reasons), but it's hardly a note of demerit to not be as good as that, considering New Vegas has some incredible quest design that even Obsidian struggled to match with following titles.
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May 21, 2018 19:49
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The casino quests in new Vegas are absolutely inspired.
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May 21, 2018 20:27
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Rex's quest doesn't really seem right. I get wanting to salvage your cyborg pet, but just grabbing a whole new brain from a whole new dog isn't so much healing his illness as it is just replacing him. I guess it's not like anyone has the logistics to graft the robot parts to another dog, so it's better to refurbish the hardware than to let it go to rot, but the King's dog is still dead.
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May 21, 2018 20:28
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Rex is the ship of Theseus in dog form. Also he's not entirely dead since Rex's memories are backed up somehow. His ending slides talk about how Rex tries to cope with his own memories merging with those of the replacement brain.
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May 21, 2018 20:34
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