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Holy poo poo, so I finally got over it and spent the night learning / practicing how to play Huntsman Kruber. It goes without saying but your burst potential is just unreal once you figure out the right talents / gear. And with Scrounger, Prowl is effectively infinite ammo for as long as it's up... Meanwhile, the main reason I was worried about switching away from mercenary was the fear of losing all that wonderful cleave versus hordes, and it really doesn't seem like I'm much weaker in that regard. I can still pull out my halberd and dice infinite numbers of slave rats pretty drat easily. Definitely flimsier, but man, that ranged potential. While Prowl was active, I was doing 23k damage per shot on the practice dummy in the courtyard. A normal quickshot to the body is more like 2.7k. That's obscene. Backhand fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 03:19
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Backhand posted:Meanwhile, the main reason I was worried about switching away from mercenary was the fear of losing all that wonderful cleave versus hordes, and it really doesn't seem like I'm much weaker in that regard. Because hordes don't matter. Even on low cleave weapons, a horde should be manageable enough using proper technique. Even a weapon like the dual daggers, specialized to hell in single target damage, can do it safely. There's very little excuse to die to normal enemies or get trapped by them. That's an error of negligence or improper tactic. Teams dying to it let it happen even if they didn't realize it. The real concern of VT2 is elites. Any setup that can't help take elites out efficiently is very possibly dead weight. Taking out horde so others can take out elites more safely isn't really helping. No one needs to be as good at it as Huntsman, but getting stuck on a single rothelm for a minute straight is a minute where you might as well have been AFK. Consider this then consider why certain careers are so unpopular.. or entire characters are unpopular.
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May 22, 2018 04:39
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Unchained sienna with mace is a loving wrecking ball easily the best tank, 2 light attacks are wide swings with great cleave and AP then a push attack reverts it back to wide swings. Just did war camp on champion without needing to be healed once which is likely because i'm hosting haha. Some insane poo poo with the specials though we had chain quad specials non stop from the first tome, literally a continuous spawn of specials.
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May 22, 2018 06:01
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So this is probably already known, but, as Bounty Hunter, if you're zoomed in with the regular xbow, you can press and hold F to get super-precise, zoomed in targeting for your Locked & Loaded shot. I assume it will be patched out shortly since fun is heresy.
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May 22, 2018 14:42
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Foehammer posted:So this is probably already known, but, as Bounty Hunter, if you're zoomed in with the regular xbow, you can press and hold F to get super-precise, zoomed in targeting for your Locked & Loaded shot. Yeah, you can also do it with a couple other weapons like elf bows. I finally got a red, so now I'm thinking I want to go for all achievements, which means getting the rest of my classes from 15 to 30... and doing skittergate on legend, so I'll be on the discord tonight or tomorrow night (eastern time) to dismantle the skittergate, if anyone wants to join. I should be doing it tonight but it depends on whether my gf comes over, so no guarantees.
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May 22, 2018 15:04
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Chakan posted:Yeah, you can also do it with a couple other weapons like elf bows. I'd be up for that Skitter legend isn't too bad, as long as you don't get hosed with boss, hoard and 8 specis spwan at the same time! I was playing legend skitter last night and it was going pretty well but our shade was poo poo and the bh we had wasn't doing great. Siena and me were doing well until I got caught off guard by a gutterrunner that didn't play ant sound and then a hosrd rekt me
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May 22, 2018 15:08
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I'd be down to try Skittergate on Legend with some Eurogoons. It's the one achievement I don't have yet.
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May 22, 2018 16:06
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https://i.imgur.com/VIuJnKy.mp4 I swear to Taal 
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May 22, 2018 16:17
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I like that the elf is dead in that.
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May 22, 2018 16:19
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Coolguye posted:hagbane elves can leave a gap in elite sniping on champion and legend Hm? Is the hagbane not total rear end any longer?
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May 22, 2018 17:30
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He means that anyone using it isn't going to be focused on elites which matter much more than the hordes. The Hagbane is total rear end, nerfed straight into oblivion where it's sitting in smoldering patience until the day it can rise again.
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May 22, 2018 17:33
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hagbane's dot actually got fixed in 1.0.8 to be not complete butt anymore. it now stacks properly (it didn't before) so it is effective against hordes and bosses. you CAN kill elites with it but doing so can leave the elf a temporarily embarrassed millionaire in terms of ammo, even as waystalker. and loving lol if you try to use it as anyone but waystalker. but yeah, it's actually not ENTIRELY worthless.
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May 22, 2018 17:41
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wait, does the DOT stacking mean it can munch bosses like it used to do to tanks in vermintide 1?
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May 22, 2018 17:44
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Cowcaster posted:wait, does the DOT stacking mean it can munch bosses like it used to do to tanks in vermintide 1? it's not as pronounced as it was in VT1 but yeah a waystalker is now a Good Boss Class
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May 22, 2018 17:46
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Sykic posted:https://i.imgur.com/VIuJnKy.mp4 God, loving same.
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May 22, 2018 17:46
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Sykic posted:https://i.imgur.com/VIuJnKy.mp4 So much in this game is broken or a WiP But GOD HELP YOU if you're so much as a pixel off the immaculately faithful head hitboxes (Halescourge  )
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May 22, 2018 17:58
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i think i'll come back to this game when the balance patches are less dramatic in scope.
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May 22, 2018 18:00
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i think i'll come back to this game when the balance patches are less dramatic in scope. At the rate they have been going we should have a solid game in about a year. Unless they suddenly figure out the very complicated and esoteric technique of not reintroducing bugs they patched out several versions back.
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May 22, 2018 18:04
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If the game worked as intended it would be way too easy
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May 22, 2018 18:09
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The third enemy faction is Fatshark itself and noone is safeCowcaster posted:wait, does the DOT stacking mean it can munch bosses like it used to do to tanks in vermintide 1? There's 4? Dot ticks so you can only stack so many, but yeah. Fun facts: the dot damage doesnt seem to be affected by anything other than heropower (it was 400/tick for me on dummies with 600HP). This means it has no range dropoff penalty and does dmg to armor regardless if your initial impact shot has AP. Charged shots do have AP but only seem to increase the initial impact's damage Fishstick fucked around with this message at 18:18 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 18:15
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Antares posted:If the game worked as intended it would be way too easy hosed up if true
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May 22, 2018 18:15
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All bugs are kept in a data base that looks like the Ghostbusters containment unit and is at Fatskark HQ. Once the game is bug free a disgruntled ex-employee will release them all.
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May 22, 2018 18:18
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Antares posted:If the game worked as intended it would be way too easy Implying you, or we, or fatshark know what “intended” even is
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May 22, 2018 18:21
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Arghy posted:Unchained sienna with mace is a loving wrecking ball easily the best tank, 2 light attacks are wide swings with great cleave and AP then a push attack reverts it back to wide swings. Just did war camp on champion without needing to be healed once which is likely because i'm hosting haha. Some insane poo poo with the specials though we had chain quad specials non stop from the first tome, literally a continuous spawn of specials. Having an unnecessarily massive health pool doesn't stop the enemy from murdering your friends. Which is the problem I run in to. Taking no damage doesn't mean squat when you lack any tools that can turn a crisis around like everyone else has. Then you get the dubious honor of bragging you were the last survivor of a failed legend run. "I survived!" is a meaningless contribution without heavy lifting power. Which unchained lacks. It's far better to be squishy but have some source of heavy lifting capacity. There's a reason those kinds of careers are favorite picks. You know what also doesn't use up healing supplies? A dead bot.
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May 22, 2018 18:22
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Willie Tomg posted:So much in this game is broken or a WiP I'll be honest. If I am host on a webm, that's likely my terrible upload speed at work. Which is still the best upload speed money can buy where I live. God Bless America. edit: I must also confess that if I am hosting we will probably lose. Enjoy your phantom hits and lag stabs, nerd. Fuuka Ayase fucked around with this message at 18:44 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 18:26
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gently caress, just give unchained a firewhip and some claws or something.
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May 22, 2018 19:40
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Fuuka Ayase posted:I'll be honest. If I am host on a webm, that's likely my terrible upload speed at work. Which is still the best upload speed money can buy where I live. God Bless America. Supposedly being the Host gives Unchained passives more damage than intended (doubled?). I mostly play her when hosting and I feel her power is about right for Legend at that level, so if her passives are actually doing more damage than intended when hosting and when/if they fix that, that's gunna suck. e: Also had a weird rear end bug where I was hit with Stormfiends flames which put me into overheat--no problem I have my ultimate up! But then instantly exploded instead of the normal slow-ticking away uncontrollably before dying even while mashing the F key. I guess that's  for you
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May 22, 2018 20:26
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Well what’s “intended” is up in the air. but testing on the dummy with mzbundifund had my damage go up by over 2x at max overcharge as host while his went up by less than 2x at max overcharge as client. Either of those numbers could be the “intended” one, or maybe it’s supposed to be a different number entirely. Who fuckin knows!!
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May 22, 2018 20:34
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That's cool news. I loved Glaive + Hagbane in VT1 and now I was theorycrafting it would be even better because Waystalker F covers its special-sniping weakness. But testing in past patches showed what everybody said, that it didn't do poo poo to the hordes that are supposed to be its primary job, much less anything to jack up Roger like the good old days.
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May 22, 2018 20:35
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yeah originally i had in there (or maybe off-hosting is doing less than "intended"). I really think the hosting-damage feels right though and what you'd expect/need out of her to be useful, so hopefully thats the "intended" values.
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May 22, 2018 20:36
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i had two hagbane elves as guests just yesterday and their damage was fine, so if there was any concern about that being a host bug thing then you can probably lay that to rest
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May 22, 2018 20:47
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I'm just going to size up the entire problem with Sienna and leave it at that. It's not even really an unchained issue. No one needs to specialize in killing hordes. Even dual daggers, infamous single target weapon, can solo hordes. A runty neckbeard with an axe can solo a horde. This is not something you need to worry about so long as you apply yourself and use technique and strategy. Sienna's ranged specializes in horde chewing. Even her best elite/special slaying (note we're not on the subject of actives yet) staff can take several seconds to accomplish what everyone else can potentially do instantly if they are set up right. Several seconds in which you can't even move, and at the point people have to babysit someone to take out elites or specials, someone else should be doing it instead. So you should be chewing the horde which.. isn't a danger..and.. no one.. needs help with. O-oh. Right. Well, we have melee weapons. Of which the best horde slayer is mediocre at horde slaying, and the one that could potentially elite slay is mediocre even if every overhead is square on. Binding you longer to a tough enemy and preventing you from helping the team in any other capacity for a prolonged period of time. So you really should be focusing the horde instead and.. do that job no one needs you for. For comparison, every other character has at least one ranged setup potent enough to snipe a special and kill it dead BETWEEN MELEE SWINGS. Granted, depending on who we are talking about this might be only at a certain range or require a bit of praying to RNG, but it's not unreliable to headshot elites and specials from the hip between melee swings without even having to dodge back first. At which point they can now go back to using their MUCH BETTER MELEE WEAPONS to chew the horde they don't need your help with. While also having some pretty potent actives depending on what career it is. All Sienna has to her name is actives. One of the three is blatantly pointless. One only fixes the inevitable result of it's own self defeating play flow. The third is a homing mass murder machine except only when it feels like it. Even if you lock on with the skull, it tends to do what the gently caress it wants. If it kills the target you hit, even with a headshot, is random. If it headshots is random. If it bounces back in to saltpyre and murders him is random. If you can even lock on to what you need to is not random cause it doesn't favor heavier targets for the lock on. Meaning in a target rich environment it's hindered by what is standing in front of you. If a horde isn't in the way then no one needs you to do it. Might as well let kruber shoot it with his gun. At least that's sure to kill it and not your own team. Unless the kruber is an rear end in a top hat. Sienna was formerly relevant with the beam staff, but that got nerfed several times because god forbid a ranged character have ranged damage. Sienna exists to be carried through legend and not realize she's being carried, "Oh but I took so little damage and did nothing wrong. What happened, team?" Fuuka Ayase fucked around with this message at 00:18 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 00:04
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the silly thing is that if the beam staff nerfs had focused on her shotgun blast (which was a weird addition to have to a weapon that literally has sniper on it) rather than the beam, which is the sniper part, it'd probably still be ok.
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May 23, 2018 00:13
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I will concede outright that I am not nearly as experienced as Fuuka, but I'm not sure how much I accept the 'Hordes can be reliably trivialized' premise. Under ideal circumstances, yes, a horde can be managed safely by basically anything, but one of the typical run-enders in Legend is having a Horde come along when a boss / patrol / pile of specials aren't going to let you hold a chokepoint indefinitely.
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May 23, 2018 00:40
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There's no such thing as a ranged class in VT, some have the majority of their DPS from ranged but they're not a ranged class. Bounty hunter/huntsman is the only class i would classify as ranged but thats because the amount of DPS they deal is broken and even that's just single target DPS. You can play sienna as melee focused and rarely use your ranged weapons i do it constantly just like you can only use ranged weapons. Hell i think the ranged weapon is just there to generate heat for benefits half the time haha. If your not using QP to find games then yeah you can tailor your party comp but every sienna career is equally viable they just require different play styles. The battle wizard will actually do more DPS if you stay ranged focus and fire walk is amazing for dumping a poo poo load of heat. I play unchained and regularly rack up 7-9k damage in champion and rarely do i pull out my fireball staff because of FF fears. Pyro can be a loving crit power house which works on melee weapons. There's nothing wrong with sienna, the problem is thinking you're a ranged class and refusing to use melee weapons. The problem is everyone wants to shoot homing missiles or shoot a huge load of damage with their ult so they'll never be happy with the other ults. Every career is viable you just need to change your playstyle to its strengths.
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May 23, 2018 03:00
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Le sigh. I took Huntsman into Legend for the first time tonight. It ended... poorly. Not a single win and a whole bunch of losses. For what it's worth, I feel like I'm coming into my own with the spec - after practicing with Prowl for a while I can now loving delete bosses and ruin most specials' day, and that's no small advantage. But Vermintide is nothing if not a war of attrition and Huntsman is just so goddamn squishy. If I slip up once, if I have just one moment of indecision, I'm toast in the blink of an eye. I'd like to think that I did my part and my teammates weren't carrying their weight during hordes, but I generally detest people who think like that and they weren't doing anything egregious, aside from maybe the occasional bad positioning. The lack of Paced Strikes and Blade Barrier is a LOT more noticeable now on Legend than it was on Champion, though - hordes can actually make it through my halberd if they keep the pressure on long enough. Part of it is probably my fault too; whenever I would see a stormvermin or chaos warrior mixed into a horde, I would try to quickswap over to my bow and then quickly burst them down before swapping back, but I think that wound up getting me hit a lot. I think once a horde is within 8 feet or so, I need to just go halberd and stay that way unless I've got a wall of allies in front of me. The bow seems to give me a bit of tunnel vision as well. I feel like I'm just less aware of my surroundings when I use it, doing things like putting scalable walls on my side and then being shocked when I take a slaverat stab to the gut. Once in the stupid loving elven forest I was fighting next to a cliff and had a group of 4-5 chaos thralls drop in directly on top of me while I was busy shooting some stormvermin that had our dwarf engaged; they spiked me out instantly. I guess getting over that just comes with practice and learning not to lean on it so heavily. In conclusion, Huntsman is pretty obscenely useful and the ability to just.... refuse the entire concept of bosses in general, is pretty amazing. But it is, obviously, by no means an "I win" button. EDIT: And as a side note, some of the new Keep banter is fun. I always enjoy listening to these stupid characters ramble, for whatever reason. Tonight Kruber and Bardin got into a conversation about how Kruber overheard the elf singing in the courtyard, and how beautiful it was.... while Bardin told him that if he had the slightest bit of sense, he would absolutely not mention it to her. Backhand fucked around with this message at 03:26 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 03:07
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Hordes that I might not need help with is a horde I welcome having help with anyway. It lets me focus on multiple things instead of being forced to solo a choke point. If it's help by a Sienna player I'm not going to ever complain. I welcome co-op behavior in a co-op game. Blast away Sienna's, don't listen to people who tell you that you're useless.
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May 23, 2018 03:29
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Sword and mace are cool and underrated
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May 23, 2018 03:55
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Arghy posted:There's nothing wrong with sienna, the problem is thinking you're a ranged class and refusing to use melee weapons.
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May 23, 2018 05:23
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AndyElusive posted:Blast away Sienna's, don't listen to people who tell you that you're useless. You could play literally any other character and help just as much with hordes and be useful for something other than that. I even troubleshooted a build just now that can have burning skull up every five seconds if it feels like it, or even less in target rich environments. Still not that great. There's not a great deal you can actually do with it. It only exists to vent heat, and then what? You can go use your substandard setup again! Yay! She is bad. Sienna is bad. If you think Sienna is good, play other classes more. If you think her weapons are acceptable, play other characters with good weapons. If you think her severely limited heatbar is a fair trade for infinite ammo, go play literally anyone else and use their ranged weapons. If you think anything about her in any possible build isn't barely mediocre in the most optimal conditions possible on Legend, you need more experience in other classes. Or a reality check in how often your interference in a situation has made absolutely no difference. Except maybe now there is a fourth mouth to feed meds. Great. And if anyone dares say she's fine on Champion.. well yes that's the point. There is no possible build that couldn't completely beast mode champion on any character. The literal worst possible build in the game could do more than excel outside Legend.
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May 23, 2018 05:46
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