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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Rekke's Surprise! Monotheism! Thing kinda.set.my teeth on edge. He's fine as is but if PoE 3 is Watcher Meet The One True God Of Eora, Those Other Gods Were Fake Because They Were Not Fantasy Jesus, I will be sore disappoint. i could see the justification being "well the other 'gods' were made by the engwithans which doesn't really make them capital G god" but that'd be a serious cop-out if there is capital G god in PoE3 then my entire goal would be to kill it in single combat, regardless of whatever else the game is about. my watcher has already had it up to here with divine horse poo poo and finding a hidden boss of the gods would basically just be the watcher's breaking point OTOH i'd play the hell out of ropekid's interpretation of Digital Devil Saga edit: Obsidian does Nocturne would also be baller af
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May 23, 2018 03:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Rekke's Surprise! Monotheism! Thing kinda.set.my teeth on edge. He's fine as is but if PoE 3 is Watcher Meet The One True God Of Eora, Those Other Gods Were Fake Because They Were Not Fantasy Jesus, I will be sore disappoint. Uh, why would you think the story is heading that way at all? Rekke rules because he provides a glimpse at the wider world and lets us know the Engwithan's plan had already fallen apart enough that parts of the planet don't even know their pantheon exists. Thats a really interesting hook for a future story and literally nothing points to it being a 'lol Christianity is real' unless you're dragging some serious baggage in.
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May 23, 2018 03:29
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Why would the gods not just go over to that place and introduce themselves
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May 23, 2018 03:34
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It's really weird that there would be cultures that didn't even know about the Engwithan gods, because the Engwithan gods are real and powerful no matter how artificial they may be. It's hard to muster a cohesive argument for monotheism against a barrage of lightning strikes.
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May 23, 2018 03:35
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I like the Principi best so far. Probably not the best for the Deadfire as a whole, but at least they're upfront about how they are gaining power and resources for themselves instead of pretending it's for the good of mankind/society.
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May 23, 2018 03:37
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wiegieman posted:It's really weird that there would be cultures that didn't even know about the Engwithan gods, because the Engwithan gods are real and powerful no matter how artificial they may be. It's hard to muster a cohesive argument for monotheism against a barrage of lightning strikes. Yeah, that's part of what bothers me about it. Unless Rekke flew in from an interplanar portal, it feels like a huge setting break / second act retcon that goes against everything else we've seen about the setting. Like, even if there is some other diety active on the planet who isn't engwithan-derived, wtf was he/she/it doing when Ondra threw a moon at the planet? Why haven't they shown up in the narrative or lore before now?
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May 23, 2018 03:41
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Thats why its interesting. I can think of a few easy possibilities: their society was created by rogue Engwithans who used their animancy to hide or neuter the gods from part of the world, they were a rival civilization to the Engwithans who built their own god, their Monotheistic deity is actually one of the ones we know in disguise who's hiding a cache of worshippers from the rest Or the Engwithans only built their machines in certain parts of the planet and everywhere else the gods are powerless or much more limited. There are a ton of avenues they could explore and seeing a clash between what we think of as a culture with faith going against the normal Eoran concept where the gods tangibly interfere in your day to day life could be cool as hell. Like we have no idea how much of Eora we actually know. Its possible/likely we know only a fraction of the world. If Rekke comes from the equivalent of North America to the Dyrwood's Europe and no one knew about it before now... i mean this is about the tech level that set off the age of discovery in the real world. Zore fucked around with this message at 03:45 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 03:42
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I think in one of the dialogues you have with Rekke he uses capital G god when talking about the statue. Maybe there are places in the world that only acknowledge Eothas as the one true deity of the world?
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May 23, 2018 03:47
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I mean, the gods pretty clearly have places where there's less knowledge/worship of them. Like I can imagine that someone growing up in the Dyrwood might grow up never hearing about Ondra. Idk if this is just because of human necessity or because they have limited power/observation. The Vithrack seem to get on fine without any gods for instance.
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May 23, 2018 03:48
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Rekke's Surprise! Monotheism! Thing kinda.set.my teeth on edge. He's fine as is but if PoE 3 is Watcher Meet The One True God Of Eora, Those Other Gods Were Fake Because They Were Not Fantasy Jesus, I will be sore disappoint. Nah, Durance already blew up fantasy Jesus before the first game. More seriously, who knows? The Engwithians and their gods clearly aren't omnipotent, they might not know Stormfolk existed. Being personifications of abstract concepts they're presumably not that curious. Alternatively, maybe Wael just thought that hiding the continent of Australia would be funny. wiegieman posted:It's really weird that there would be cultures that didn't even know about the Engwithan gods, because the Engwithan gods are real and powerful no matter how artificial they may be. It's hard to muster a cohesive argument for monotheism against a barrage of lightning strikes. Feet of Clay posted:Another priest said, "Is it true you've said you'll believe in any god whose existence can be proved by logical debate?" Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 04:01 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 03:52
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Lol I just remembered that bit ends with Dorfl walking off saying "later on I will be happy to debate with the priest of the most worthy god" and as soon as he leaves the priests all start fighting
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May 23, 2018 03:59
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PoE1 explicitly stated that there weren't any gods, and that is why the Engwithans decided to create them, so I think you're safe from the stunning twist that actually Jesus was the one true god all along.
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May 23, 2018 04:05
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Actually Iovara qualified her statement with "or if there were any, they were gone". Revealing that an actual god really exists would feel very out of whack with this setting though, thematically
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May 23, 2018 04:08
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Jimbot posted:I think in one of the dialogues you have with Rekke he uses capital G god when talking about the statue. Maybe there are places in the world that only acknowledge Eothas as the one true deity of the world? A more likely explanation is that Rekke has been told they're chasing A god and rationalized that as THE god. wiegieman posted:It's really weird that there would be cultures that didn't even know about the Engwithan gods, because the Engwithan gods are real and powerful no matter how artificial they may be. It's hard to muster a cohesive argument for monotheism against a barrage of lightning strikes. That's precisely what makes it an interesting hook.
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May 23, 2018 04:10
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:PoE1 explicitly stated that there weren't any gods, and that is why the Engwithans decided to create them, so I think you're safe from the stunning twist that actually Jesus was the one true god all along. there's always "Thaos is an unreliable narrator and he's just trying to convince you that his version of the world is correct, since there's not anyone else alive that could contradict him based on first hand knowledge". i mean that's a thing i've wondered since the end of PoE1 - how do we know that anything Thaos says is true? there's not anybody else around that could contradict him, and there's no other archaeological evidence to the contrary.
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May 23, 2018 04:13
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Freaking Crumbum posted:there's always "Thaos is an unreliable narrator and he's just trying to convince you that his version of the world is correct, since there's not anyone else alive that could contradict him based on first hand knowledge". It makes for poor storytelling if Thaos lied about everything for funsies. We should probably assume the general outline of what he said is true. We know that Thaos is a man of deep conviction that kith are essentially evil, and that without divine authority they will indulge in that evil. That's his entire motivation as a character. That belief informs every single action he takes in the narrative, so in that light it's reasonable to assume his basic story that they found no gods and felt compelled to create them due to that perceived imperfection is true. He may be skewing, or himself possessed of imperfect knowledge, the details but there's no real reason to believe he's lying about the basics.
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May 23, 2018 04:16
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wiegieman posted:It's really weird that there would be cultures that didn't even know about the Engwithan gods, because the Engwithan gods are real and powerful no matter how artificial they may be. It's hard to muster a cohesive argument for monotheism against a barrage of lightning strikes. The roots of christianity and judaism had a process of acknowledging there were other gods but ours is the best one to eventually professing ours is the only one and these other gods are actually lesser types of magical stuff but they're all evil and crap. Eventually they just absorb the gods, stories, themes, prophecies, myths, etc and say they're under the umbrella of best god and that the rest is pagan bullshit. If you're in a world with gods as tangible as in PoE, you could probably still build a faith around believing one particular super-being being the big boss in the sky with the other things being lesser or adversarial forces beneath the big boss. You could also just think yours is the real deal and the others are fake?
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May 23, 2018 04:17
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Khanstant posted:The roots of christianity and judaism had a process of acknowledging there were other gods but ours is the best one to eventually professing ours is the only one and these other gods are actually lesser types of magical stuff but they're all evil and crap. Eventually they just absorb the gods, stories, themes, prophecies, myths, etc and say they're under the umbrella of best god and that the rest is pagan bullshit. That's explicitly not what's going on with Rekke. He has no loving idea what you're talking about with the Engwithan pantheon.
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May 23, 2018 04:17
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Could be Wael loving with them. Or maybe he's literally a lost interdimensional traveller. That is a thing PoEII establishes is possible.
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May 23, 2018 04:20
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Well there is that whole thing where they talk about rudimentary evidence that soul essence comes from some great distance across space, maybe from the stars, and then Wael is like "haha maybe you should investigate OTHER mysteries buddy ol' pal (gently caress off)"
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May 23, 2018 04:24
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Captain Oblivious posted:Well there is that whole thing where they talk about rudimentary evidence that soul essence comes from some great distance across space, maybe from the stars, and then Wael is like "haha maybe you should investigate OTHER mysteries buddy ol' pal (gently caress off)" I never got this but I assume it relates to Bekara or whatever the wannabe-archmage's name was, and her observatory?
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May 23, 2018 04:26
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I wish PoE 2 had more fun with extra-planar monsters, that one Collector of Souls from the Realm of Rymrgand was cool to see
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May 23, 2018 04:28
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That thing didn't get a bestiary entry when I killed it >:
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May 23, 2018 04:31
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2house2fly posted:That thing didn't get a bestiary entry when I killed it >: There must be two  Or maybe a hundred in the Rymrgand themed DLC coming out in July.
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May 23, 2018 04:33
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Captain Oblivious posted:Well there is that whole thing where they talk about rudimentary evidence that soul essence comes from some great distance across space, maybe from the stars, and then Wael is like "haha maybe you should investigate OTHER mysteries buddy ol' pal (gently caress off)" He is the god that asked you to throw the souls in PoE1 off to only-he-knows-where.
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May 23, 2018 04:33
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That said Rekke is probably not a dimensional traveler or whatever. He plainly talks about how his people know full well about Ondra's Mortar and regard it as just an impassable fact of life.
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May 23, 2018 04:37
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Captain Oblivious posted:That...seems like a really strange thing to worry about. C) Waidwen 2.0 (or is it 0.5?) from one of the gods actually took D) Nemnok, but a wizard/priest guy
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May 23, 2018 04:40
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Thaos saying there isn't a God/Gods doesn't necessarily mean that's the case, but I suspect it's gonna be one of those Dragon Age type things with the Maker where the existence or lacktherof will never be confirmed.
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May 23, 2018 04:43
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Grimoire posted:C) Waidwen 2.0 (or is it 0.5?) from one of the gods actually took D) Nemnok, but a wizard/priest guy E) Nemnok, but Nemnok.
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May 23, 2018 04:45
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Captain Oblivious posted:E) Nemnok, but Nemnok. Always wanted a pet god. POE3: adventures with Rekke, kill his God in the first 30 minutes and take him as a pet, gently caress off and explore this weird new world.
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May 23, 2018 04:46
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I don't think the Engwithan pantheon is self-proselytizing -- the Engwithans bothered with missionaries for a reason. Regardless whether Rekke's god is real or not, it seems entirely line with the general fallibility of both the Engwithans and their gods that they would fail to appreciate the full extent of Eora and leave portions of the world unconverted.
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May 23, 2018 04:52
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AngryBooch posted:I think Trickster is the weakest subclass in the game right now and needs a definite buff. Maybe along with the wizard specializations, but the solution there is to just have more spells of each school at each level where needed. What do you think it should get? I played a shadowdancer with trickster for awhile and it seemed okay. It led my party in damage, but still felt fairly anemic compared to other class combos I've tried. I did like being really drat durable on PotD even with a constitution of 8. By the time you get deathblows, the penalty probably isn't even very significant, but that's very late in the game. In the end, streetfighter would have been a far better choice for a tanky rogue and probably have taken less damage by virtue of killing things faster. I think the main issue is that the spells you get aren't good enough, except maybe for at the very top tier, but those cost too much. I didn't mind spending guile on the spells at all -- in fact getting a use for my guile that left me free to focus on rogue passives and monk skills was really good. But the spells also didn't add enough. Arkemyr's dazzling lights rarely felt worth the casting time compared to just killing things. If it had a longer duration or an instant cast, I think it would be worth it. Mirror image is good, especially since you can just recast it over and over. But you can also just use escape or shadowing beyond over and over if your main use for guile is defense. The spell doesn't really add much that rogues don't have already. If this were a special version that gave less deflection, but that stacked with other bonuses, it would feel better as a constant use for guile to boost defense. Confusion is highly situational, so it's hard to know when this would be worth it. I didn't get gaze of the adragan, but it seems like a very high cost, both in class resources and cast time for a short duration debuff, even if it's powerful. I think the designers didn't want the trickster's spells to outshine a wizard's, but by making the trickster a lovely rogue with lovely wizard spells, it just becomes a lovely class. The idea is to sacrifice damage for defense and utility, but characters that want to do that would pretty much always be better served by an option other than trickster. Actually it needs spells that are stronger than what a wizard gets and that complement its skillset better for anyone to justify the pick.
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May 23, 2018 04:55
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had some kind of horrible glitch monster attack in the Hasongo workshop and suddenly disappear as soon as it attacked, and in the process an NPC I was supposed to talk to disappeared? The NPC might have been the glitch monster? I don't know what happened but it was some creepypasta poo poo
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May 23, 2018 05:02
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Sio posted:I don't think the Engwithan pantheon is self-proselytizing -- the Engwithans bothered with missionaries for a reason. I like the idea of them being fallible. This big, stagnant, arrogant empire was fighting against barbarians at the gates or internal strife and they just jonestowned themselves into apotheosis instead of y'know, learning to smelt iron. I'd always envisioned them as shades of Kallor's "empire" in Malazan - small scale horticulturist/systematic hunt exploitation, no real cities, ruins as ritual centers/gobekli tepe on a grand scale, limited metalwork aside from copper and lovely bronze, hidebound social structure and religion. But savants with soul poo poo
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May 23, 2018 05:02
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I just wanted to come in here and say that, despite the relatively minor fuckery and bugs (like the orlan child not showing up), I have really really really loved this game. For my first play through I stuck with my go-to benevolent Paladin type but I'm already very much getting excited for my next playthrough. It had just enough continuity from the first and had some captivating story bits. Gameplay was great, visceral, and stacking the gently caress out of armor made everything a lot smoother. I'd be very happy if Fampyrs didn't exist, but crushing/burning them to death was very cathartic and pleasant after their domination gently caress-abouts.
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May 23, 2018 05:06
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Question about Paladins. How impactful is the effect from staying devoted to your order and what do the orders prefer? I found a list on a wiki but it was unclear whether it was for PoE 1 or 2 (or is it all the same between the two?). I wanted to go with a Bleak Walker but I'm not sure if I want to be a hardcore rear end in a top hat the whole game just for some bonuses or get hit with debuffs because I did something nice.
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May 23, 2018 05:21
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The exact rules for what the gods can do in this setting are vague - and deliberately, because they don't want to tip their hand. We just learned, as a side note, that the Godlikes are all spiritually implanted with a mini-god parasite that transforms them, that lets the god invisibly ride along in their mind, and they can be eaten for mp at the god's pleasure. Aspects of that are horrifying - but it also suggests that, if those extraordinary steps are necessary, the Gods' avenues of influence into the world might be very limited. Like, outside of those means, the gods might have a physical range limit to their worldly influence. Doing something on the other side of an ocean might be impossible, or hellaciously inconvenient, for them. Another distant land could have ended up with a god-equivalent entity, through similar or even yet-unknown means, that fills the same conceptual role in peoples' lives. Or, the racist Engwithans could have made a pantheon to nurture their own civilization of kith and people, and left some kind of wilderness-overseer to watch over the uncivilizable rest of the world.
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May 23, 2018 05:23
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bitmap posted:ahhh I'm loving this. I did just have a pretty big buggy issue at the pirate fort, though. I met little serafen on the boat, said "SURE MAN LETS DO IT", he seems excited to be coming along and then...leaves. On the other boat. I go to the pirate fort, sneak in, agree to help this dude in the forge steal the boat, kill the guards and go to the roof, ring the bell and...nothing. I walk to the right and some friendly guard sees me and then drops me in the courtyard with all these friendly pirates. Serafen is there and he joins my party and...I guess we do the whole thing another way but my journal never updates. i commend obsidian on this, class warfare is evil and peasants need to know their place
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May 23, 2018 05:26
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StringOfLetters posted:We just learned, as a side note, that the Godlikes are all spiritually implanted with a mini-god parasite that transforms them, that lets the god invisibly ride along in their mind, and they can be eaten for mp at the god's pleasure. Aspects of that are horrifying - but it also suggests that, if those extraordinary steps are necessary, the Gods' avenues of influence into the world might be very limited. I'm fully expecting there to be a Pillars 3 ending option where Pallegina is the one surviving godlike in the world due to her Hyleaectomy.
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May 23, 2018 05:28
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Soarer posted:Question about Paladins. How impactful is the effect from staying devoted to your order and what do the orders prefer? I found a list on a wiki but it was unclear whether it was for PoE 1 or 2 (or is it all the same between the two?). It's substantial, especially if you take Deep Faith. The list you found is likely for the first game but aligns with Deadfire - replace "deceptive" with "shady" but otherwise it should translate. Speaking as a BW player, it's still possible to do "good" things while maintaining your rep - you're just a violent rear end in a top hat to people who deserve it and kind of a standoffish prick in general to people who don't. It's quite cathartic in a lot of cases because you can get amusing reactions from a lot of characters when it's clear you're in no mood for bullshit - some people even respect it. E: case in point, I just walked inside the camp on Crookspur Island and wrecked havoc on everyone in sight because gently caress slavers and gently caress Furrante. Buck Wildman fucked around with this message at 05:46 on May 23, 2018 |
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