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Good Will Hrunting posted:I mean, joke all you want but I'm actually serious? I'm extremely comfortable with lots of *NIX tools that make my job infinitely easier on a daily basis. I can't imagine not having them. I'm with you. I write a many throw-away one-liners every day that I feel like an amputee when I don't have access to the command line.
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May 22, 2018 22:41
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My joke was formulated around the intent of "oh man, can I come up with the least significant difference between working professionally in a Windows vs *n*x environment?" and not "I'mma make fun of GWH." Using Windows, in my industry experience, correlates with as well as causes some undesirable situations, moreso (again, just in my experience) than *n*x. A decent shell on Windows is obtainable and this is something I always desire so that I can pipe find to xargs or open every file that's conflicted in gvim or do a bazillion other dumb little tricks.
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May 22, 2018 22:47
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Just making sure that everyone in this conversation is aware that WSL is a thing. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10
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May 22, 2018 22:55
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Pollyanna posted:The problem with housing is not your fault, it is the fault of capitalism and the bourgeoisie. It is, however, compounded by software engineers rarely being paid in proportion to the revenue and savings we generate for our companies. When we make fixes and changes that land our companies $200k/mo deals and we get shafted on our salaries and bonuses, then we’re effectively being conspired against to keep our wages low. This is really dumb. Every job in existence could make the same argument and it will always be stupid. The money a software company makes is a product of the efforts of the whole team. Without marketers you'd have no customers, without CEOs you'd have no investors, without support staff you'd lose customers as soon as they have an issue, without janitors the work environment would be a nightmare, without payroll staff you'd never actually get paid at all, etc, etc.
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May 23, 2018 00:02
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Please don’t engage Pollyanna when they get like that.
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May 23, 2018 00:03
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The Fool posted:Just making sure that everyone in this conversation is aware that WSL is a thing. And Cygwin was a thing for decades before that.
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May 23, 2018 00:04
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:Capitalism will always be stupid. Agreed!
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May 23, 2018 00:09
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CPColin posted:Agreed! I was saying Pollyanna's attitude was stupid, and it is. But yes capitalism is also stupid in a great number of ways. I'm not sure I really understand what you were trying to "zing" me with here.
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May 23, 2018 00:13
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I believe I was successfully zinging Capitalism.
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May 23, 2018 00:19
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The Fool posted:Just making sure that everyone in this conversation is aware that WSL is a thing. That being said, I've still got cygwin installed. The file sharing between WSL and the Windows system is janky and there's some weird delays. cygwin sees what windows sees, the home folder's right there without any digging.
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May 23, 2018 00:21
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JawnV6 posted:Right, any dev should be aware of this tool and pretending like Windows can't run grep or cmd line git is ridiculous. Coming into threads whining about the dearth of non-evil companies while simultaneously self-selecting out of huge swaths of industries based on some tool imagined to be unavailable? Windows takes forever to spawn processes, cygwin makes this orders of magnitude worse by doing insane hacks to implement fork (spawn a new process and have it copy all of the parent process's address space over to itself)
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May 23, 2018 00:39
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If Microsoft and Apple are like the Boeing and Airbus of operating systems, Linux is basically a bunch of nerd hippies that show up in a field with various pieces of airplanes built at different points over the last 40 years, and then argue with each other about how they should be welded together.
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May 23, 2018 00:50
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:And Cygwin was a thing for decades before that. Yeah, but first party support from Microsoft and multiple distros is a significant improvement IMO. JawnV6 posted:That being said, I've still got cygwin installed. The file sharing between WSL and the Windows system is janky and there's some weird delays. cygwin sees what windows sees, the home folder's right there without any digging. Have you looked at WSL since 1803? There are some updates that are supposed to improve file system interoperability specifically. I don't know if your specific pain is addressed though.
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May 23, 2018 00:50
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I think you took my post in the most negative manner possible when in actuality I'm just really timid. I didn't say "mother gently caress Windows I hate it and I'm never working with it". I'm merely stating that everything I've learned up to this part of my brief professional career has been Linux and JVM related save for some Node. As other have posted already, windows has cygwin (or WSL if you really want it) so you can grep and find and xargs all you want. If you are familiar with the Java ecosystem you will find in .NET kind-of similar tools, just shittier (well, younger, less matured, less features, that kinda break sometimes, etc.). While C# is a superior language to Java, .NET ecosystem is inferior. But nothing is insurmountable. You can pretty much do everything you want in .NET just fine.
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May 23, 2018 01:33
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.net is a career graveyard. If you want to spend the rest of your career working with mediocre tech and mediocre people inside the Microsoft silo, by all means, go ahead.
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May 23, 2018 01:36
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I disagree. .NET does historically trend towards enterprise, so you never see it in "trendy" startup environments. But .NET's foothold appears to be expanding with Microsoft's commitment to open source over the last couple of years. If they can keep up the momentum, .NET will absolutely gain wider usage.
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May 23, 2018 01:39
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Don't tie your career to any single language or framework.
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May 23, 2018 01:56
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Volguus posted:While C# is a superior language to Java, .NET ecosystem is inferior. Well, all except for Visual Studio, which is arguably the best IDE on the planet. Or, you could use the well-loved VS Code, which is also a Microsoft product.
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May 23, 2018 01:58
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Visual Studio is loving garbage at everything it does.
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May 23, 2018 02:07
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Powershell is pretty good IMO, and their APIs, while ancient and lovely, often aren’t the absolute worst to work with because their shittiness is at least documented, either officially or littered throughout the internet. And they’re a bit more cohesive than just throwing about text pipes everywhere.
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May 23, 2018 02:10
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Powershell is pretty good IMO, and their APIs, while ancient and lovely, often aren’t the absolute worst to work with because their shittiness is at least documented, either officially or littered throughout the internet. And they’re a bit more cohesive than just throwing about text pipes everywhere. Counterpoint: PowerShell powers hell. It's a garbage language with a good idea (passing objects instead of text along a pipeline), a virtue (it's not cmd.exe) and a very good suite of tools for interacting with and managing Windows.
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May 23, 2018 02:17
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ultrafilter posted:Don't tie your career to any single language or framework. ...unless you get stuck in jobs for only that language or framework. Save me from Rails hell 
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May 23, 2018 02:58
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:without CEOs you'd have no investors, 
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May 23, 2018 03:23
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i'm very sure that the sort of staid and boring enterprise shops that are .net stalwarts will have WSL enabled hell, is WSL even available in the enterprise/LTS w10 sku?
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May 23, 2018 03:31
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redleader posted:Counterpoint: PowerShell powers hell. It's a garbage language with a good idea (passing objects instead of text along a pipeline), a virtue (it's not cmd.exe) and a very good suite of tools for interacting with and managing Windows. The language is fine being shittier if the side effect is API parity between ps1, C#, C++/CX, and C++ via cppwinrt. I did actually port a Powershell script to C++/WinRT so I could build it with any compliant C++ compiler (with cppwinrt taking care of generating the COM bindings), so the fact that Powershell scripting is a thing makes the overall path forward from “gently caress, I need to use a native API for this” feel generally better to me than it has on Linux, even though Windows APIs and Powershell are worse than their POSIX counterparts.
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May 23, 2018 03:48
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The Fool posted:I disagree. .NET does historically trend towards enterprise, so you never see it in "trendy" startup environments. But .NET's foothold appears to be expanding with Microsoft's commitment to open source over the last couple of years. If they can keep up the momentum, .NET will absolutely gain wider usage. Agreed. Microsoft is killing it lately with its open sourcing work. .NET Core Typescript VS Code WSL All of that is dope and good.
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May 23, 2018 04:17
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Pollyanna posted:Capitalism is bad. I, for one, would totally contribute to an open source IoT guillotine framework that collects and stores data on the guillotines victims that will used in machine learning algorithms to automate the glorious revolution. prisoner of waffles posted:this is a pretty good point. unless they want deep .NET expertise, your ability to sling Java means you'll probably be just fine slinging C#. Note: far too many people who make hiring decisions don't understand this, and this logic doesn't fly in a job interview. Get at least a little fluent before you jump.
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May 23, 2018 05:33
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CPColin posted:Visual Studio is loving garbage at everything it does. 
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May 23, 2018 08:01
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I just mean someone has to do the whole "run around and generate buzz for the product to raise capital" thing. I think if you're focused on that specific part of what I said you've missed the point.
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May 23, 2018 08:16
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JawnV6 posted:Right, any dev should be aware of this tool and pretending like Windows can't run grep or cmd line git is ridiculous. Hang on a minute. Why would a non-Windows dev be aware of what dev tools Windows has? I think "any dev who is worried about Linux tooling on Windows should probably have googled 'Linux tooling on Windows' and found the WSL" is fair, but I didn't know about it until just now and assumed Windows didn't have that sort of thing. I was also peripherally aware of cygwin but again as someone who doesn't need to dev on Windows I didn't really know what it does and how. Because why would I? uncurable mlady posted:i'm very sure that the sort of staid and boring enterprise shops that are .net stalwarts will have WSL enabled I don't have any input on whether this is the case, but I'd hope they'd have established alternative workflows. -- As a unix user I agree it can feel very limiting to be without your familiar tools, but if you're flexible enough to switch languages I'd recommend also being flexible enough to switch workflows with it. When I have someone come from the Java world to work with Ruby I expect them to conform to the normal Ruby way of doing things, that is to say a bash-like commandline on OSX or Linux, TextMate/Sublime/vim, git and github, CI, bundler, rubygems etc. When I work on Java I'm expected to switch to the normal Java way of doing things, that is to say Maven and an IDE, poms etc, and I do so. You're going to get a lot less friction and a lot more support from your fellows (and google) by doing that. The same applies to grep, xargs, whatever. There're be some other way your goal is achieved by these people. Learn how that works, and do that. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 08:41 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 08:39
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:I just mean someone has to do the whole "run around and generate buzz for the product to raise capital" thing. I think if you're focused on that specific part of what I said you've missed the point.
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May 23, 2018 09:12
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comedyblissoption posted:I'm more contesting the idea that society needs corporate overlords So replace CEO with whichever term for "the person leading the business" is acceptable to you. Like I said, you missed the point entirely.
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May 23, 2018 09:24
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LOL. Language wars and OS wars in the oldie thread. We are better than this.
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May 23, 2018 12:37
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Paolomania posted:LOL. Language wars and OS wars in the oldie thread. We are better than this.
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May 23, 2018 12:47
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Update from many, many posts ago. My current company is still very much treading water, 0.9% raise and no hiring kinda poo poo, and is now refusing to sign off minor purchases. So I applied, interviewed, and got a new job starting mid-June  I'm back in Manchester city centre which means more "culture" aka  - 11% raise, hardware allowance, annual bonus. I get to build them a DevOps culture from scratch and lead some people.No red flags from the interview except my commute is now by train instead of car, which isn't bad considering how poo poo Manchester commutes are via road. But i'm changing frameworks & languages completely; AWS/EC2, .NET, Golang over to GCP, Scala, Node, Kubernetes. So that should be a nice challenge.
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May 23, 2018 12:58
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Jaded Burnout posted:Hang on a minute. Why would a non-Windows dev be aware of what dev tools Windows has? A lot of developers read in their spare time to learn new things and keep skills sharp. If you don’t then try reading a feed aggregator for a few days and you’ll see how without even doing deep dives you can get a weird overview of the state of the world from people’s blogspam. Some of it may be relevant but most of it won’t be. IE: I’ve read a lot of about Rust. I never plan to use it but, but at least I’ve read about it and understand to some minor degree it’s pros and cons.
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May 23, 2018 13:37
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Cancelbot posted:Update from many, many posts ago. My current company is still very much treading water, 0.9% raise and no hiring kinda poo poo, and is now refusing to sign off minor purchases. So I applied, interviewed, and got a new job starting mid-June Congrats! If they're using GKE then you should be able to ramp up super fast if your Docker fundamentals are good.
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May 23, 2018 14:28
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Cancelbot posted:Update from many, many posts ago. My current company is still very much treading water, 0.9% raise and no hiring kinda poo poo, and is now refusing to sign off minor purchases. So I applied, interviewed, and got a new job starting mid-June Nice! Hughlander posted:A lot of developers read in their spare time to learn new things and keep skills sharp. If you don’t then try reading a feed aggregator for a few days and you’ll see how without even doing deep dives you can get a weird overview of the state of the world from people’s blogspam. Some of it may be relevant but most of it won’t be. Yes, but reading about a new language or framework is not the same as tooling specific to a platform you don't use. How many Windows developers know what Homebrew is on a mac?
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May 23, 2018 15:13
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Hughlander posted:A lot of developers read in their spare time to learn new things and keep skills sharp. I've been doing this on the clock and just yesterday got official approval from my boss to keep doing so. For four hours a month. (I'm gonna keep doing it for like four hours a week, lol.)
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May 23, 2018 15:23
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All languages and operating systems are garbage. Computers were a mistake
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May 23, 2018 15:24
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