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Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
So, did Riot want to do a 180 on their stance of trying to increase jungle diversity? because this scuttle patch basically made it so you either have to play a high damage AD jungler, high damage ranged jungler or nunu/ivern to have any hope of doing anything.

Almost every tank jungler is 45% winrate or lower since this patch

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its curtains for Kevin
Nov 14, 2011

Fruit is proof that the gods exist and love us.

Just kidding!

Life is meaningless

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

So, did Riot want to do a 180 on their stance of trying to increase jungle diversity? because this scuttle patch basically made it so you either have to play a high damage AD jungler, high damage ranged jungler or nunu/ivern to have any hope of doing anything.

Almost every tank jungler is 45% winrate or lower since this patch

Good


e; Also this is not very factual; only Elise, Gragas, Zac, Sejuani, and Diana are below a 47% win rate, and Mundo, Volibear, Rammus, Singed, Poppy, and Maokai all have 49% win rates or higher out of the jungle.


Something I will note is that of the top ten jungling slots by win rate, 7 of them are Tiamat junglers, which makes sense because ignoring the jungle item yet still having fast AoE clear is a very strong trait this patch. The other 3 include Graves and Quinn, bizarrely enough, and Singed, of all things, who is sitting at a 52% win rate out of the jungle. I strongly recommend playing a Tiamat jungler this patch, but I warn you that next patch they talked about increasing xp on regular camps, and I suspect that fast clears will stay important.


Idk about diversity though; you have to go down 22 champs to find one that doesn't win at least half their games, and down 38 to get below 48% win rate, which I consider the outer limit of decently balanced for champs that are not considered hard to play EG lee sin, thresh. It more just sounds like your regular stable of champs isn't doing very well this patch. Flexibility is a big proponent of player skill over time from patch to patch; have you considered picking up a few of the junglers that are doing well? Xin Zhao, Graves, Udyr, and Shaco are all very strong this patch, and even Lee Sin is having good success.

its curtains for Kevin fucked around with this message at 02:25 on May 24, 2018

Mikujin
May 25, 2010

(also a lightning rod)

Just play Udyr (even though they're crippling Sterakk's).

its curtains for Kevin
Nov 14, 2011

Fruit is proof that the gods exist and love us.

Just kidding!

Life is meaningless

Mikujin posted:

Just play Udyr (even though they're crippling Sterakk's).

I disagree with crippling; the change to Bonus AD means that some champs will benefit more than they did; the nerf was directed only at Triforce users, which is much needed; Triforce is pretty abusable rn; Garens are walking around with 400 damage Trinity Force procs lmao

Mikujin
May 25, 2010

(also a lightning rod)

its curtains for Kevin posted:

I disagree with crippling; the change to Bonus AD means that some champs will benefit more than they did; the nerf was directed only at Triforce users, which is much needed; Triforce is pretty abusable rn; Garens are walking around with 400 damage Trinity Force procs lmao
It's actually a straight buff to bruisers that have bonus AD ratios and no base AD ratios. I'm actually excited to use it on Rek'sai (using it before actually meant you lost damage on abilities by building it), especially since she's gotta be in a great position right now in crab land.

:ninja: I'm just salty that it's a huge hurt to Udyr's triforce game.

its curtains for Kevin
Nov 14, 2011

Fruit is proof that the gods exist and love us.

Just kidding!

Life is meaningless

Mikujin posted:

It's actually a straight buff to bruisers that have bonus AD ratios and no base AD ratios. I'm actually excited to use it on Rek'sai (using it before actually meant you lost damage on abilities by building it), especially since she's gotta be in a great position right now in crab land.

:ninja: I'm just salty that it's a huge hurt to Udyr's triforce game.

Udyr still has a lot of buy options; he doesn't need both. Just go Tri/Bloodrazor/Hydra.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

I'm not making a fucking QCS thread for this but seriously can we take a harder stance on Kiwifarms freaks like this guy, Jesus Christ seriously, you used to be better at knocking these creeps down. I guess ADTRW mods aren't responsible like GBS mods are.

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

So, did Riot want to do a 180 on their stance of trying to increase jungle diversity? because this scuttle patch basically made it so you either have to play a high damage AD jungler, high damage ranged jungler or nunu/ivern to have any hope of doing anything.

Almost every tank jungler is 45% winrate or lower since this patch
Bruh how long have you been playing? It's either "Everyone can jungle" or "Only these four champions can jungle" and it's been that way on and off the entire length of the game

CubeTheory
Mar 26, 2010

Cube Reversal
Wait, are you all not just spamming Morgana jungle and stylin' on people? That's been working pretty well for me.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
everyone can jungle is way more fun, lets be honest

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

I'm not making a fucking QCS thread for this but seriously can we take a harder stance on Kiwifarms freaks like this guy, Jesus Christ seriously, you used to be better at knocking these creeps down. I guess ADTRW mods aren't responsible like GBS mods are.

Tired Moritz posted:

everyone can jungle is way more fun, lets be honest
Bring me back to the patch where Quinn was the highest win rate in every single role

Svensken
May 29, 2010
Wouldn't removing top lane turn mid into the new top lane?

Makes u think

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


Bot has always been the real top lane.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
Countering Nasus... help...

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Lid posted:

Countering Nasus... help...

Win by 20 minutes.

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

Lid posted:

Countering Nasus... help...

nasus wants to farm and get bigger, so pick something that can throw a wrench in those plans. who is your best lane bully? pick that

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
pick teemo

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

nasus can't do much by himself against bullies but he's easy to gank for, especially in a high-damage jungler, because of wither, so even with a good counter you'll want to make sure you're controlling the lane properly so you don't end up too far into his side of the river.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Just had my first game toplane against reworked Gangplank, and I was Yorick. I ended the game 1/3/1 with 5 tower kills and 2 inhib kills, and we won the game. Playing against a dude whose gimmick lets him just delete your gimmick at will isn't very fun. I followed the build advice on champion.gg for Merc Treads, which seemed good in general against all the CC on the enemy team, but I was constantly wishing I had Swiftness so I could maybe walk through the lane and catch up to the guy and kill him so he'd stop spamming barrels that barely scratched me but instantly cleared waves of ghouls and minions.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
With the changes to the Rift Scuttler, is red smite for Cinderhulk (top) or Runic Echoes (mid) reasonable and viable? I've been trying out Cinderhulk in lieu of Sunfire Cape on Malphite to mixed results, and Runic Echoes in lieu of Luden's Echo on Fiddlesticks to generally positive results. Thoughts?

Servaetes
Sep 10, 2003

False enemy or true friend?
You're sacrificing a LOT of map pressure to make sure you sometimes secure an objective that may randomly spawn next to you. I think if you're able to secure it as a laner you dont really need smite or a jungle item, honestly. Malphite top without teleport feels like you're squandering the point of picking him in that lane

Fiddles mid feels like a complete waste of time, why not not jungle him or play a different mid? No need to shoehorn him into the spot. But the same thing as malphite applies though where smite isn't worth it over teleport or exhaust or ignite

Servaetes fucked around with this message at 13:35 on May 24, 2018

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
wtf did they rework gangplank again

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I don't think so? I just took a break from the game for a while and between that and not finding it memorable I managed to go a long time without ever playing against him top since they gave him barrels.

Stefan Prodan
Jan 7, 2002

I deeply respect you as a human being... Some day I'm gonna make you *Mrs* Buck Turgidson!


Grimey Drawer
the "Anyone Can Cook" image from Ratatouille but it's Baker Pantheon and says Jungle instead

Action George
Apr 13, 2013

Servaetes posted:

You're sacrificing a LOT of map pressure to make sure you sometimes secure an objective that may randomly spawn next to you. I think if you're able to secure it as a laner you dont really need smite or a jungle item, honestly. Malphite top without teleport feels like you're squandering the point of picking him in that lane

Fiddles mid feels like a complete waste of time, why not not jungle him or play a different mid? No need to shoehorn him into the spot. But the same thing as malphite applies though where smite isn't worth it over teleport or exhaust or ignite

Yeah, I feel like you'd definitely be better off just picking a champ that can control the lane and take a combat summoner spell so you can just rotate with your jungle rather than spending a lot of gold on an item that benefits you way less so you can leave lane every few minutes to fight over a jungle camp. I'm honestly not sure how you'd be able to maintain enough lane control as smite Malphite in most matchups to actually leave lane without the other top pushing in a giant wave or freezing lane and cutting you off and denying you more farm and xp on the way back.

Erdricks
Sep 8, 2005

There's nothing refreshing like a sauna!
Can anyone explain the voyboy nassus tear build? I heard people talking about in a stream but voyboy yt vid is just meme clips

Elephunk
Dec 6, 2007



Erdricks posted:

Can anyone explain the voyboy nassus tear build? I heard people talking about in a stream but voyboy yt vid is just meme clips

take comet + max E = profit?

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Erdricks posted:

Can anyone explain the voyboy nassus tear build? I heard people talking about in a stream but voyboy yt vid is just meme clips

It's just AP nasus. Max E, go for tear then Luden's then finish Archangel or whatever depending. Drop the E on the enemy champion or the entire minion wave, past level 5 you can just knock out the entire caster minion line with one cast, plus the enemy champion is getting chunked because the radius of E is huge.

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

Crazy Larry posted:

Yeah, I feel like you'd definitely be better off just picking a champ that can control the lane and take a combat summoner spell so you can just rotate with your jungle rather than spending a lot of gold on an item that benefits you way less so you can leave lane every few minutes to fight over a jungle camp. I'm honestly not sure how you'd be able to maintain enough lane control as smite Malphite in most matchups to actually leave lane without the other top pushing in a giant wave or freezing lane and cutting you off and denying you more farm and xp on the way back.

You maintain lane control as Malphite by building him AP and pushing in your opponents poo poo any time they show their cowardly face behind the minion line.

Action George
Apr 13, 2013

The Shortest Path posted:

You maintain lane control as Malphite by building him AP and pushing in your opponents poo poo any time they show their cowardly face behind the minion line.

Ok but the guy is playing smite/cinderhulk not ap Malph, specifically in lieu of sunfire cape.

Radical
Apr 6, 2011

smite malphite top successfully steals a single crab at 12 minutes after sitting under his tower oom for the other 11 minutes.

Addamere posted:

It's just AP nasus. Max E, go for tear then Luden's then finish Archangel or whatever depending. Drop the E on the enemy champion or the entire minion wave, past level 5 you can just knock out the entire caster minion line with one cast, plus the enemy champion is getting chunked because the radius of E is huge.

the point is actually that you're not committed to building AP if the lane goes well, since you can turn the tear into either item. so against high pressure laners or if you get camped by the jungler you can spam whither and clear the lane with E but against tanks you just power farm as normal and muramana just makes it that much easier to kill ezreal in 1 Q.

edit: i dont know if i support muramana nasus as being good but that is what he builds against tanks

Mystery Prize
Nov 7, 2010
re: Nasus chat from earlier; contrary to popular opinion, I don't actually think he's super great lategame in anything higher than like, gold elo. He's incredibly easy to kite as anyone with ranged CC/slows, and he's not a good enough 1v1 duelist or mobile enough to be able to splitpush as effectively as, say, Tryndamere. He hits a big powerspike in the 15-25 minute range when he completes a Sheen item and 1-2 tank items, but takes a sharp decline after that if even one person on the team has a way of dealing with him.

Lulu and Zilean are both absolute nightmare mode for him, and Janna isn't too far behind.

TheTofuShop
Aug 28, 2009

I've won 6 of my last seven games, all on urgot. Any advice in the Irelia matchup? she gives me the most trouble.

In terms of items in general, I go Cleaver, Mallet, into Sunfire or Warmogs but then I get a bit lost (or we've already won) is going like, BotRK worth it with his W, or should I go for Bloodthirster, or just more HP/Tankyness?

e:in terms of items I'm looking for advice in general and for Irelia specifically.

TheTofuShop fucked around with this message at 20:32 on May 24, 2018

Sexpansion
Mar 22, 2003

DELETED

TheTofuShop posted:

I've won 6 of my last seven games, all on urgot. Any advice in the Irelia matchup? she gives me the most trouble.

In terms of items in general, I go Cleaver, Mallet, into Sunfire or Warmogs but then I get a bit lost (or we've already won) is going like, BotRK worth it with his W, or should I go for Bloodthirster, or just more HP/Tankyness?

e:in terms of items I'm looking for advice in general and for Irelia specifically.

Ban Irelia.

Nightgull
Jan 22, 2018

TOTALLY NOT A CONSERVATIVE
or a fucking nazi

TheTofuShop posted:

I've won 6 of my last seven games, all on urgot. Any advice in the Irelia matchup? she gives me the most trouble.

In terms of items in general, I go Cleaver, Mallet, into Sunfire or Warmogs but then I get a bit lost (or we've already won) is going like, BotRK worth it with his W, or should I go for Bloodthirster, or just more HP/Tankyness?

e:in terms of items I'm looking for advice in general and for Irelia specifically.

I'm pretty terrible at this game, but I main Urgot and have played him the most. Get Righteous Glory second or third if you're having trouble catching people. Don't get sunfire, his waveclear is amazing after you complete cleaver. Do get maw against fed magic damage heroes. Go for tank otherwise, bork and bloodthirster aren't worth it on him in my homble opinion. Though someone may differ.

And yeah, like Verviticus said, ban Irelia. She's hard.

Firebert
Aug 16, 2004

Mystery Prize posted:

re: Nasus chat from earlier; contrary to popular opinion, I don't actually think he's super great lategame in anything higher than like, gold elo. He's incredibly easy to kite as anyone with ranged CC/slows, and he's not a good enough 1v1 duelist or mobile enough to be able to splitpush as effectively as, say, Tryndamere. He hits a big powerspike in the 15-25 minute range when he completes a Sheen item and 1-2 tank items, but takes a sharp decline after that if even one person on the team has a way of dealing with him.

That's always been the case, his teamfighting is dogshit. He wants to be splitting with 2-3 items against a tank that can't fight back.

its curtains for Kevin
Nov 14, 2011

Fruit is proof that the gods exist and love us.

Just kidding!

Life is meaningless
His use later in the game is mostly as a peel bruiser who can also TP in to destroy objectives if someone is out of position

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

Mystery Prize posted:

re: Nasus chat from earlier; contrary to popular opinion, I don't actually think he's super great lategame in anything higher than like, gold elo. He's incredibly easy to kite as anyone with ranged CC/slows, and he's not a good enough 1v1 duelist or mobile enough to be able to splitpush as effectively as, say, Tryndamere. He hits a big powerspike in the 15-25 minute range when he completes a Sheen item and 1-2 tank items, but takes a sharp decline after that if even one person on the team has a way of dealing with him.

Lulu and Zilean are both absolute nightmare mode for him, and Janna isn't too far behind.

if he has lots of stacks he split pushes one lane and threatens towers as if he were like 3 guys because of sheen q tower procs, which makes him extremely threatening lategame cause he can tp to an empty pushing wave and take inhib and maybe t4 for free

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

?????????
?

TheTofuShop posted:

I've won 6 of my last seven games, all on urgot. Any advice in the Irelia matchup? she gives me the most trouble.

In terms of items in general, I go Cleaver, Mallet, into Sunfire or Warmogs but then I get a bit lost (or we've already won) is going like, BotRK worth it with his W, or should I go for Bloodthirster, or just more HP/Tankyness?

e:in terms of items I'm looking for advice in general and for Irelia specifically.

I played some Urgot but not enpugh to call him a main champ of mine, I feel lile Death's Dance would have been better on him vs Bloodthirster. Did people come to a consensus one way or another?

Nightgull
Jan 22, 2018

TOTALLY NOT A CONSERVATIVE
or a fucking nazi

Monathin posted:

I played some Urgot but not enpugh to call him a main champ of mine, I feel lile Death's Dance would have been better on him vs Bloodthirster. Did people come to a consensus one way or another?

Yeah, I agree with this. The few times I've been far enough ahead and didn't need anymore defense, death's dance helped a lot.

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Mystery Prize
Nov 7, 2010

pog boyfriend posted:

if he has lots of stacks he split pushes one lane and threatens towers as if he were like 3 guys because of sheen q tower procs, which makes him extremely threatening lategame cause he can tp to an empty pushing wave and take inhib and maybe t4 for free

Right. The way to beat Nasus isn't to beat him, it's to beat his team, or have someone who can always answer his lategame pushing power.

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