|
I still have my patch page up; I'd be more than happy to add more patch bundles to the list.
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 14:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 11:41 |
|
|
Always a pleasure to see this thread crop up again. Didn't complete any runs last year due to real life shenanigans, but hope springs eternal.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 14:30
|
|
|
Happy to see the thread again. All that FF5 discussion in the megathread a month back or so got me really antsy for fiesta season to start. Does anyone know the exact weights that jobs are given in popular mode? Or if popular mode is even still gonna be a thing, for that matter? I've got a little project I'm working on.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 15:58
|
|
|
Cattail Prophet posted:Happy to see the thread again. All that FF5 discussion in the megathread a month back or so got me really antsy for fiesta season to start. Poque provided the following info in Discord last year (it's a pinned message): quote:Play-In Round I'm not sure how those translate out into weights, but it's at least something to work from?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 16:01
|
|
|
In what universe is a Summoner preferable to a Black Mage?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 17:33
|
|
|
agradine posted:In what universe is a Summoner preferable to a Black Mage? all of them
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 17:39
|
|
|
Poque posted:all of them I'm not aware of any random battles that serve as roadblocks.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
Even if you're being obtuse and wrong on purpose, Summoner has a higher Magic stat than Black Mage, soPoque posted:all of them
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 17:45
|
|
|
agradine posted:I'm not aware of any random battles that serve as roadblocks. It's a good thing summoner is broken in boss battles too, then.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 17:47
|
|
|
I prefer Black, but Carbuckle and Golem can be very useful.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 17:48
|
|
|
I think I will do all summoners for my single job run this year.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 17:51
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:Even if you're being obtuse and wrong on purpose, Summoner has a higher Magic stat than Black Mage, so A whole two points of magic!  Black Mage has much better single target damage. And the Magic Lamp, for when Neo-Exdeath rolls into town. Also, status effects that wreck some of the more obnoxious bosses (looking at you, Atomos). Summoner has the edge against Neo-Exdeath, admittedly, and Golem which is basically the only thing they have going in their favor other than picking up a magic damage multiplier marginally earlier. I'm not saying that Summoner is overrated by any stretch, just that Black Mage is underrated in comparison and preferable in all but a few edge case scenarios. Mystic Knight does have them both beat though so 
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
My take is that Summoners are slightly better overall than Black Mages, but it's close enough to be a matter of taste. Black mages tend to be somewhat better at doing single-target damage using MP efficiently, but for the endgame Syldra isn't that much worse than Firaga/Blizzaga/Thundaga. Summoner has more in the way of useful utility spells in the form of Golem (which is sick) and Carbuncle. Phoenix is obviously uniquely powerful, but is a bit of a pain to get. In fact, since Syldra is the last feasible summon to get an elemental boost you can pretty much skip all of the top-tier summons without issue. E:VVVV Mystic Knight is absurdly strong. Their status effects bypass all magic defense, so you get a guaranteed zero-almagest fight. Similarly, Silence Spellblade is way better than other sources of mute to bypass Bridgegamesh's buffs (the timing is otherwise pretty tight). They are underwhelming vs enemies with zero vulnerabilities (unless you have flare blade) but they trivialize SO MANY bosses. FreeKillB fucked around with this message at 18:07 on May 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 17:59
|
|
|
MK sucks compared to Black.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:01
|
|
|
The only boss fight where MK has a good strategy that BM doesn't would be NED.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:14
|
|
|
The big thing about Mystic Knight is that the Rapidfire Spellblade meme has become so engrained in FF5 discussions that people think it's a DPS class when it's really not. If you roll a Mystic Knight and expect to get damage numbers like a normal Knight or even a Samurai you're going to be incredibly disappointed. It's more akin to Blue Mage or Chemist in that it's a technical class that's meant to have a silver bullet for every situation, as long as you know you can use said solution. Like Freekill said, it only really stumbles on fights where there's no weakness to exploit and no status to shut them down. My problem with it, on the other hand, is that it's such a goddamn boring class. Rolling it for over half of my runs in 2016 probably helped that mindset, though.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
FreeKillB posted:
What bosses do they trivialize that Black doesnt (or aren't trivial to begin with?) Besides NED which I already admitted. I think 3 reflect Thundaga is about as difficult as Thundaga Knifing Omega (and I've had a lot of experience doing so). Bridgegamesh can't be silenced in the GBA version. derra fucked around with this message at 18:24 on May 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:22
|
|
|
KataraniSword posted:The big thing about Mystic Knight is that the Rapidfire Spellblade meme has become so engrained in FF5 discussions that people think it's a DPS class when it's really not. If you roll a Mystic Knight and expect to get damage numbers like a normal Knight or even a Samurai you're going to be incredibly disappointed. It's more akin to Blue Mage or Chemist in that it's a technical class that's meant to have a silver bullet for every situation, as long as you know you can use said solution. That may very well be true, actually. I've yet to actually ever roll a Mystic Knight on a FJF, so I've never experienced how they've worked without the massive damage boosts they can draw from in a vanilla game (Dual Wield, Two-Handed, !Rapidfire, etc.) so I'm used to thinking of them as big damage dealers. And MK has at least two good multi-purpose options for exploit-free bosses; Drain Blade and Flare Blade, though admittedly both come fairly late.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
If your MK can't hit a weakness they are incredibly blah until Flare Sword. This happens more than you'd think. Both classes have access to Sleep. Magic still does sold damage without a weakness.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:36
|
|
|
Neo Exdeath's Break-vulnerable piece is the biggest outlier, since it is vulnerable to break but has a high level and magic evade. If you're going after NED with a black mage, you either need to be able to survive an almagest or be ready to restart a few times. I think Bio Blade tends to be a bit stronger than bio against Azulmagia (since it multiplies your weapon damage by 4), but that's a more moderate case. Necrophobe I'd rate as roughly wash, since you lose a turn charging break blade but in exchange you don't need to worry about reflect RNG or spell failure. Mute is the one status that MK has access to that black mage doesn't, and while in SFC there are quite a few bosses that aren't mute-immune I'm not sure how many of them are still mutable in GBA, although in most of these cases the boss is a combination of a)vulnerable to something else or b)generally not that hard. Black mage is also very strong, I don't want to deny that. I was taking issue with saying that MK sucks in comparison, since for most bosses both classes are an 'I win' button. Out of the hardest fights in the game, I would say that MK has a decisive edge vs NED and BM has a decisive edge vs world 2 exdeath, which is admittedly a very bad fight for MK. e: I will note that MK is so much better for endgame grinding it's not funny. Using Break Blade against Iron Giants is ludicrously good, since it ignores their massive magic evade entirely. Black mages are no slouch in this department but it's still not even close. If you want AP you can also Break Blade most things in the Void without issue, too. e2: I had misremembered what works vs what doesn't vs Crystals, this is also a difficult fight where MK doesn't bring much to the table FreeKillB fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:40
|
|
|
derra posted:If your MK can't hit a weakness they are incredibly blah until Flare Sword. This happens more than you'd think. Both classes have access to Sleep. Magic still does sold damage without a weakness. Yeah, the biggest difference between MK versus Black Mage is that MK doesn't have to worry about Magic Evasion or really, the Magic Accuracy formula at all. MK can more reliably shut down higher-level bosses whereas your mages might whiff a few times. As stated, this is mostly relevant for NED, but it also comes into play with Omniscient (not that a Black Mage has any problems with rugwizard, but it means MK is better at silencing than a White Mage) and Atomos (which Black Mage has easier because they only need to get Sleep to stick once, instead of hitting it constantly). Really, Mystic Knight's biggest problems are that they're somewhat squishy compared to other heavy armor classes (their stamina isn't great) and the fact they're locked to generic swords (NOT Knightswords), the strongest of which you can't even use with their main gimmick. They'll do just fine in World 1, start falling behind at the same point Knights do in the back half of World 2 where Black Magic becomes king, and unlike Knight, won't get any Legendary upgrades in World 3 to make them viable. Endgame MK versus randos or neutral bosses lives and dies by Flare Sword. On the other hand, the point in World 2 where they start falling behind in damage is ALSO the point where they start to shine as a more utilitarian, with the one-two punch of Break Blade and Bio Blade (your first Instant Kill tier spellblade). They also get semi-reliable healing with Drain Blade.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:48
|
|
|
That's fair, but I would add that if either can't exploit a weakness or status vulnerability Black is much better than MK. Black is better if you need burst (Crystals, Catastrophe). Black is better in most cases if you actually want to kill some trash. Old access (ancient sword) to some bosses can be helpful, while Berserk via Wonder Wand is critical for someone like Shinryu.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:51
|
|
|
agradine posted:A whole two points of magic! Only once -aga spells are in play, which is less than a third of the game. Furthermore, the Lamp isn't reusable, and Summons don't have the MT don't split penalty that black magic does. That's still ignoring the utility of Carby and Golem, too.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:52
|
|
|
I did FJF once, in 2012, beat it for the first time, and pretty much steamrolled the game with the godlike combo of Summoner, Thief, Chemist and Bard
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:Only once -aga spells are in play, which is less than a third of the game. Furthermore, the Lamp isn't reusable, and Summons don't have the MT don't I did mention Golem. What you need Carby for is rare enough that Reflect Rings work just as well (if not better) in a pinch. The -ra spells are stronger than most of the elemental summons (Ramuh barely edges them out). Early World 2 is basically the only place where Summoner beats out Black Mage for damage (Titan is a bit stronger than Bio, 8/5 points stronger boosted/unboosted) but they fall behind in a big way once you get to the -aga spells and never really catch up. Repeatable Golem alone makes Summoner top tier, not to mention boosted Titan and Syldra, but if you gave me the choice, I'd go with Black Mage.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 20:08
|
|
|
agradine posted:I did mention Golem. What you need Carby for is rare enough that Reflect Rings work just as well (if not better) in a pinch. The -ra spells are stronger than most of the elemental summons (Ramuh barely edges them out). Early World 2 is basically the only place where Summoner beats out Black Mage for damage (Titan is a bit stronger than Bio, 8/5 points stronger boosted/unboosted) but they fall behind in a big way once you get to the -aga spells and never really catch up. If Water wasn't such a worthless piece of poo poo element, Summoner would outdamage -ga spells easily once it got Leviathan. Unfortunately, coding being what it is means you can only boost Leviathan's damage with a Chemist, and if you have a Chemist then you can just solo the loving game.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 20:18
|
|
|
You can somewhat easily solo the game with 2/3’s of the jobs, to be fair. Anyway both Black Mage and Summoner suck because they don’t have half the fashion sense of the Geomancer.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 20:31
|
|
|
Finally someone's talking sense.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 20:38
|
|
|
You do have to be real powerful to fight evil while still wearing pyjamas, that's true.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:You do have to be real powerful to fight evil while still wearing pyjamas, that's true. Wish someone would tell that to the Geomancer.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 20:49
|
|
|
FFV Fashion Tiers Tier 1: The fashion gods Geomancer: Fabulous, daring, and comfy! Dancer: Just look at those dashing colours! Red Mage: Red clothes and feathered hats are a symbol of sophistication. Black Mage: Who needs a face when you've got style? Tier 2: Pretty drat spiffy Berserker:  incarnate. Slight deduction for animal cruelty.Mystic Knight: I have no idea what Faris is going for here, but the others are good enough to make up for it. Samurai: True vintage! Beastmaster: Eccentric, but it works. Blue Mage: Superheroes are in right now. White Mage: Only because Krile looks amazing! Monk: Hey, if you've got it, flaunt it! Tier 3: Well, it's better than going naked Dragoon: The only decent one is ripping off a character from another game. Ninja: Like Samurai, but worse. Digging Lenna's costume though. Time Mage: The hat is silly, the cape is good. Knight: Look at me, I'm wearing armour.  Chemist: Not exactly inspired, but at least not an eyesore. Tier 4: Oh, come on! Summoner: Phallic imagery is so passé. Thief: Seriously, guys, you look like leprechaun rejects! Ranger: Robin Hood wore it better. Bard: Wearing a bunch of rags you found in the trash doesn't count as a fashion choice! Feel free to argue, but you all know it's the truth. Samuel Clemens fucked around with this message at 22:43 on May 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 22:36
|
|
|
I've never finished a run because I have a real problem with finishing video games. However, I've been crushing games lately so I'm doing it. I'm finishing this game with a real hosed up party.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2018 22:53
|
|
|
Start speculating, I guess. https://twitter.com/FF5ForFutures/status/999848780575916032
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:09
|
|
|
mime/freelancer only run, calling it now
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:11
|
|
|
Only the first 403 people are allowed to use it?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:14
|
|
|
Perhaps the "Forbidden" after-classes, Mime, and Freelancer?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:26
|
|
|
Is there a Draft mode?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:28
|
|
|
My guess: using the forbidden tag means you can't get the really strong classes like Chemist and Samurai.
Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 10:32 on May 25, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:47
|
|
|
 first donation of 2018 
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 11:41 |
|
|
Not exactly relevant to the Fiesta itself, but I've started working on a big addition to my personal patch. Presenting a story in 4 acts: It's actually a job that randomizes the 3 non-!Fight commands on a per-battle basis.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 05:27
|
|
