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Angry Salami posted:There's a basic rule that female Bajorans are cool and interesting, and male Bajorans are vague interchangeable beige lumps. Anjohl Tennan was alright.
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May 25, 2018 06:39
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Jem'Hadar are underrated, though maybe I just like their style.
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May 25, 2018 14:06
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Jem'Hadar are underrated, though maybe I just like their style. I loved their characterization because they may be literally the only real instance of "not evil, just doing their jobs." I hope one day we will get an actual Star Trek series not set in the past and the Jem'Hadar have found a way to overcome their addictions to Ketracel White and their conditioning and integrate into society. Also Cardassians as a people aren't evil. They were far too willing to turn a blind eye to the actions of their government, but what society irl hasn't done the same thing? That's the reason why Kira was willing to help them take back their planet. Except Dukat. gently caress that guy.
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May 25, 2018 16:46
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Anjohl Tennan was alright. Dude got to gently caress the spiritual leader of an entire planet. Gotta count for something.
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May 25, 2018 16:57
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Stairs posted:I loved their characterization because they may be literally the only real instance of "not evil, just doing their jobs." I hope one day we will get an actual Star Trek series not set in the past and the Jem'Hadar have found a way to overcome their addictions to Ketracel White and their conditioning and integrate into society. Dukat's evil was that he could convince himself that what he wanted was objectively right. The quote that always summed him up for me was "A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness."
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May 25, 2018 17:27
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Sunswipe posted:Dukat's evil was that he could convince himself that what he wanted was objectively right. The quote that always summed him up for me was "A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness." Dukat was also deeply insecure. He knew he was king poo poo but threw himself totally off the deep end because nobody else, especially Sisko, would recognize it. "Senpai doesn't notice me, better summon alien demons and destroy a whole planet" is not the sort of character I can understand anyone liking.
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May 25, 2018 18:03
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Stairs posted:Except Dukat. gently caress that guy. Hey, it's me, Dukat. I wanted to call you in the middle of the night to remind you that your mom took your advice. k bye 
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May 25, 2018 18:46
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ATTENTION BAJORAN MILFS
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May 25, 2018 18:54
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Doggles posted:Hey, it's me, Dukat. I wanted to call you in the middle of the night to remind you that your mom took your advice. k bye "Oh wait, also I'm going to try and gently caress you even though/because I hosed your mom despite/because you're my daughter's best friend and kind of maternal figure!"
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May 25, 2018 19:47
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Dude fetishised Bajoran women like a white 20 year old on his first trip to Glorious Nippon.
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May 25, 2018 19:49
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Stairs posted:Dude fetishised Bajoran women like a white 20 year old on his first trip to Glorious Nippon. In 1946.
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May 25, 2018 20:21
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Quark's business in the bar never made sense. It's always packed with lots of drinking and gambling but he's always on the verge of going broke. I mean drat, raise your prices a little. Or do the Federation people not pay since they don't have currency? I know I wouldn't pay real money for synthehol.
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May 25, 2018 20:45
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Mu Zeta posted:Quark's business in the bar never made sense. It's always packed with lots of drinking and gambling but he's always on the verge of going broke. I mean drat, raise your prices a little. Or do the Federation people not pay since they don't have currency? I know I wouldn't pay real money for synthehol. Donald Trump is the President of the United States of America!
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May 25, 2018 20:50
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Iron Crowned posted:Donald Trump is the President of the United States of America! hey, gently caress you pal
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May 25, 2018 20:51
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Mu Zeta posted:Quark's business in the bar never made sense. It's always packed with lots of drinking and gambling but he's always on the verge of going broke. I mean drat, raise your prices a little. Or do the Federation people not pay since they don't have currency? I know I wouldn't pay real money for synthehol. Was that all the time, or only when his business was suspended by the FCA? I also wouldn't be surprised if it's more than just bar expenses he's talking about.
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May 25, 2018 22:09
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Iron Crowned posted:Donald Trump is the President of the United States of America! WHAT
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May 25, 2018 22:20
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Mu Zeta posted:Quark's business in the bar never made sense. It's always packed with lots of drinking and gambling but he's always on the verge of going broke. I mean drat, raise your prices a little. Or do the Federation people not pay since they don't have currency? I know I wouldn't pay real money for synthehol. While your average Ten Forward won't serve real booze due to being a military ish vessel, Quark's was a private business and he served whatever he could get a license for (and probably a lot of things he couldn't). That said I have no idea why he'd ever choose to serve feddies, as yeah, they have no money.
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May 25, 2018 23:04
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Choco1980 posted:While your average Ten Forward won't serve real booze due to being a military ish vessel, Quark's was a private business and he served whatever he could get a license for (and probably a lot of things he couldn't). That said I have no idea why he'd ever choose to serve feddies, as yeah, they have no money. This is  but if I recall correctly Federation citizens were alloted a number of "credits" that could be used for dealing with non-Federation vendors, which the Federation then paid out of Latinum or whatever.When dealing with a Federation merchant though, poo poo's just free if you're a Federation citizen.
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May 25, 2018 23:30
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:as someone who's not straight: it is a little bit of An Issue that yet another tough lady in fiction is being portrayed as LGBT, continuing the stereotype that all LGBT women are tough or butch in some way issues of lgbt representation are complex and lead to a lot of circular firing squads tbh
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May 25, 2018 23:45
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Mu Zeta posted:Quark's business in the bar never made sense. It's always packed with lots of drinking and gambling but he's always on the verge of going broke. I mean drat, raise your prices a little. Or do the Federation people not pay since they don't have currency? I know I wouldn't pay real money for synthehol. In the episode where he becomes an arms dealer its also revealed that the federation doesn't charge him rent or power consumption either. Probably gets repairs done for free too.
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May 25, 2018 23:46
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Mondian posted:In the episode where he becomes an arms dealer its also revealed that the federation doesn't charge him rent or power consumption either. Probably gets repairs done for free too. Is that because he was grandfathered into the Federation taking over DS9 or just because that's how the Federation works? I imagine they keep him around because, despite sucking as a businessman, he does have some angles and some contacts that might make him better at spreading the Hearts and Minds Federation poo poo. Or I could be talking out my rear end since I haven't seen an episode in a decade or two. I really should dip back into that.
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May 26, 2018 00:02
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It's not explicitly stated and Sisko only brings it up to use the threat of back-rent to get him to quit being an rear end in a top hat. I get the feeling the Federation does it because having a big entertainment center on a backwater shithole is good for morale
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May 26, 2018 00:24
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Mu Zeta posted:Quark's business in the bar never made sense. It's always packed with lots of drinking and gambling but he's always on the verge of going broke. I mean drat, raise your prices a little. Or do the Federation people not pay since they don't have currency? I know I wouldn't pay real money for synthehol. It always seemed to me that Rom was good at actually running a business for a profit, he was left to run most of the bar business. And then Quark was more the devious swindling Ferengi sort, so he would take the profits, and do some stupid shady deal or bet. And then they'd be almost ruined until they came up with some crazy devious scheme and ended up breaking even or a bit ahead. I mean, I haven't watched it in like a decade but I seem to remember that being the basic storyline they'd do, maybe with Odo involved somewhere.
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May 26, 2018 00:42
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Based on my hazy nerd memory, DS-9 has a bunch of private businesses, places of worship, and school stuff. They're technically a private (Bajoran owned, formerly Cardassian) colony amicably occupied by Federation forces. Recall that neither Kira nor Odo are Feds themselves for instance. I want to say that originally the Federation was there to help the Bajorans adjust the colony to post-war life once the Cardassian occupation had ended, but then they discovered the Wormhole the Gamma Quadrant and suddenly there was an incredibly strong tactical argument for staying on, first to explore, which Starfleet adores doing, and then as the major outpost in the Dominion War.
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May 26, 2018 01:56
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Just wanted to say that I'm v loving DS9 chat so much I came across Bo Selecta on YouTube the other day and I'm not sure if it counts for this thread if the show was already a bad idea to begin with but  https://youtu.be/v-lLk5sZYeU HOLY FUCK has a new favorite as of 02:55 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 02:15
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RaspberryCommie posted:This is That was always the biggest tragedy of Rasmussen (the guy from the TNG past who steals a time machine from the future and visits the Enterprise-D). If he'd spent a /minimal/ amount of time learning about 24th-century Federation, he'd have realized he could have made his fortune without stealing anything; just ask for stuff and they'd have given it to him. But no, he has to steal personal items and attempt to kidnap Data.
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May 26, 2018 02:38
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Choco1980 posted:Based on my hazy nerd memory, DS-9 has a bunch of private businesses, places of worship, and school stuff. They're technically a private (Bajoran owned, formerly Cardassian) colony amicably occupied by Federation forces. Recall that neither Kira nor Odo are Feds themselves for instance. I want to say that originally the Federation was there to help the Bajorans adjust the colony to post-war life once the Cardassian occupation had ended, but then they discovered the Wormhole the Gamma Quadrant and suddenly there was an incredibly strong tactical argument for staying on, first to explore, which Starfleet adores doing, and then as the major outpost in the Dominion War. I haven't watched DS-9 in...probably at least 15 years at this point myself but that's about the short of it. It wasn't actually Federation space but it was strategically important for a gently caress ton of reasons. Then they found that wormhole. The station was actually under Bajoran control but there was a Federation commander put in charge. That turned out to be Sisko. The Bajorans were fine with this because they simultaneously wanted the Federation's help and wanted to join. They were in a lovely situation overall and were weak because of being slaves to Cardassia for however long. It was a complex political situation for a lot of reasons; the Federation doesn't fight unless you force it to and there were Bajorans that were not OK with joining if that meant playing nice with the Cardassians. So because it wasn't Federation territory normal Federation rules didn't apply. That was why private businesses were allowed to exist. It was also a very important trade and travel hub which was part of why it was so strategically important. It saw a lot of traffic. Then when it turned out that the Dominion was waiting on the other side of the wormhole it just got even more important. But yeah the Federation has enacted super ultra space communism so Federation citizens just get everything for free. Thanks to replicators they've achieved post-scarcity. The amount of stuff that a replicator can't make is pretty small but that stuff still exists. This is one of the reasons the Federation still trades and why their credits exist. They're not based on anything specific; if you have them you can trade them to the Federation just...you know, wherever you happen to be able to talk to them for some stuff. It'll probably come out of a replicator but not everybody has access to that technology so it's still pretty handy for those outside the Federation. I don't think it's ever explained exactly what the exchange rates are or anything; just that it's a thing that exists and if you have them then the Federation will let you cash them out. Meanwhile they get handed out to Federation people who have to deal with places where money is still a thing. So because it's out on the fringe of the Federation and there are gently caress loads of people coming and going there are still private businesses and Quark's is still Quark's. Quark in particular got up to all sorts of shenanigans but made sure not to get up to anything too terrible. Odo let a lot of petty stuff Quark did slide because Quark was actually a valuable asset. There was an episode where Worf showed up where Worf inadvertently screwed up Odo's plan to nab some smugglers. Quark had a bag of...something...that was going to trade to the smugglers (weapons, I think? I forget) for something else. Latinum, probably. Anyway Worf got wind of it, strolled in to bust Quark, only to find the bag turning into a rather annoyed Odo. The weirdest thing about Quark is that as much of a sneaky little poo poo bag he could be he was overall found to be a pretty alright dude. He got all embarrassed when people found out he was helping get food to Bajoran refugees at cost. He was greedy and sneaky but also helped the station crew a lot. A complex character, that one... Anyway Quark never did anything too awful and was useful to have around so his shenanigans got tolerated. Rom on the other hand was far better-natured and had a head for numbers but was terrible at the devious poo poo the Ferrengi got up to. Which made him a good engineer or bookkeeper but a bad Ferrengi businessman. When the series ended and the station came under total Federation control Quark was actually sad that he was going to have to leave because, well, super ultra space communism and that. Everything is free in the Federation so he couldn't profit. The station crew liked him and his bar enough that they let him open it as a Ferrengi embassy so he could keep it open, still charge, make profit, and hang around.
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May 26, 2018 02:56
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I haven't watched DS-9 in...probably at least 15 years at this point myself but that's about the short of it. It wasn't actually Federation space but it was strategically important for a gently caress ton of reasons. Then they found that wormhole. The station was actually under Bajoran control but there was a Federation commander put in charge. That turned out to be Sisko. The Bajorans were fine with this because they simultaneously wanted the Federation's help and wanted to join. They were in a lovely situation overall and were weak because of being slaves to Cardassia for however long. It was a complex political situation for a lot of reasons; the Federation doesn't fight unless you force it to and there were Bajorans that were not OK with joining if that meant playing nice with the Cardassians. They should have just done B5 instead of trying to jury-rig it to fit the Star Trek universe, honestly.
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May 26, 2018 03:05
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I think the Federation management of DS9 basically considers Quark's bar as something along the lines of Grandpa Sisko's restaurant, a personal enterprise that is considered to have a positive effect on the community. Remember it's also a casino (and an occasionally crooked one at that) and holosuite joint, and DS9 otherwise lacks holosuites or holodeck facilities. Space station life is probably only a bit less stressful and claustrophobic than starship life. (as demonstrated with Garak's claustrophobia)
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May 26, 2018 03:43
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Quark is an all right guy at least when it comes to violence. When he time traveled to WWII-era United States he was shocked and disgusted by the barbarity of the nuclear bomb.
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May 26, 2018 04:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I think the Federation management of DS9 basically considers Quark's bar as something along the lines of Grandpa Sisko's restaurant, a personal enterprise that is considered to have a positive effect on the community. Remember it's also a casino (and an occasionally crooked one at that) and holosuite joint, and DS9 otherwise lacks holosuites or holodeck facilities. Space station life is probably only a bit less stressful and claustrophobic than starship life. (as demonstrated with Garak's claustrophobia) Eh, I'd consider it kind of different than Sisko's restaurant. Star Trek pretty strongly indicated that replicator technology could never create anything as good as something hand crafted. You could get everything you needed so money became meaningless but people still wanted stuff like home cooked meals and places to eat with a whole pile of other people. There would really be no point in actually charging for the service as money is mostly meaningless so restaurants would come up because some people felt like making a restaurant. People also, you know, get bored and have hobbies so if there's no real need to work it makes sense that some folks would just be like "well you know I like to cook so I run this place." Kind of like how in TNG people had replicators in their rooms but still went to a bar or a cafeteria. None of them give a poo poo about profit because in Federation space profit is absolutely meaningless. Quark's is ultimately about the profit. But yeah I figure that's about the all of it as to why it gets tolerated; it's seedy, it's kind of crooked, and you know Quark is screwing people over while getting up to petty crime but the overall effect on the station is positive. Granted Quark is also a Ferrengi and they're not the types to screw up a good thing or gently caress up a steady source of profit. He knows what's what and never pushes Odo too far. Mu Zeta posted:Quark is an all right guy at least when it comes to violence. When he time traveled to WWII-era United States he was shocked and disgusted by the barbarity of the nuclear bomb. The Ferrengi were originally supposed to replace the Klingons as the main villain of the series when they were introduced in TNG. The thing of it was there just wasn't really anything all that threatening about them and the biggest irony is that they're shocked at a lot of human behavior. The big example is the fact that humanity sold tobacco for so long. See, you can't profit off of a dead customer so why the hell are you selling them stuff that will kill them? Same with the violence thing; aside from the fact that Quark isn't as awful as everybody thinks the Ferrengi are they're legitimately confused at how horribly violent humanity was. They they'll probably all try to swindle you but not too badly as they'd like for you to come back. More importantly they'd prefer that you stay alive so you can come back. Part of that was Quark going "why would you blow up so many potential customers? What is wrong with you?" They managed to develop an interstellar society without ever committing genocide. ToxicSlurpee has a new favorite as of 04:24 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 04:17
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Most of that is right - DS9 was Cardassian built and seized by the Bajorans in their revolution. When Cisco and Dax discovered the wormhole, I think that the Bajorans moved DS9 there for religious reasons, and I think they negotiated through diplomatic channels, as a prospective Federation member, to have Cisco be put in command as the chief regional liason, because he was, as the discoverer of the wormhole, The Prophet. My favourite thing about DS9 is that unlike every other Star Trek series, the characters are struggling with the tech around them and having to jury rig poo poo. It always felt much more like a precarious "we're in a weird loving tin can in space oh my god we could die any second" setting, and thus a much different feeling from TNG and TOS, where tech is magic that solves problems. I also love O'Brien, and to a lesser extent (before his weird unnecessary character twist) Bashir.
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May 26, 2018 04:23
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Though ironically, there were way less episodes involving the holodeck creating a supervillain again or whatever. Everything does break when O'Brien's been gone for more than a few days, though. Also, Civil Defense.
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May 26, 2018 04:29
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Though ironically, there were way less episodes involving the holodeck creating a supervillain again or whatever. And then when something goes wrong it inevitably harms O'Brien in some way. I'm shocked the poor dude never snapped or quit his job but he just kept on truckin'.
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May 26, 2018 04:31
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ToxicSlurpee posted:And then when something goes wrong it inevitably harms O'Brien in some way. I'm shocked the poor dude never snapped or quit his job but he just kept on truckin'. Every shift worked is a shift not with Keiko
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May 26, 2018 04:35
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I think the better read on Obrien is secret masochist. He likes the pain. Otherwise life is boring. This also explains his marriage.
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May 26, 2018 04:47
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Absurd Alhazred posted:They should have just done B5 instead of trying to jury-rig it to fit the Star Trek universe, honestly. Pretty hard to do that when DS9 came out first.
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May 26, 2018 04:50
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I once saw someone describe ToS and TNG as the wagon train to the stars, while DS9 was the Alamo, and I think that's a pretty apt description.
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May 26, 2018 05:53
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Leavemywife posted:I once saw someone describe ToS and TNG as the wagon train to the stars, while DS9 was the Alamo, and I think that's a pretty apt description. Probably on purpose that towards the end, O'Brien and Bashir get into regular Alamo recreations in the holosuites, even building a miniature scale model of the Alamo to plan strategy. Worf doesn't think much of it. (They should have invited one of the other Klingons along, I bet they'd be down for a glorious losing battle)
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May 26, 2018 06:03
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Star Trek pretty strongly indicated that replicator technology could never create anything as good as something hand crafted. That never made any sense though. You can perfectly reproduce something down to the subatomic level but somehow it just doesn't taste the same? Bullshit. I suppose your stereo system sounds better with gold-plated speaker cables, too?
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