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If you want a vassal-heavy game, take Feudal Society and just integrate vassals once they've proven thsemselves in combat. Take the relevant Ascension Perk too.
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May 28, 2018 08:41
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Rookersh posted:Space Rome. My current run is republican Space Rome: muthoritarian/materialist/militarist, oligarchy, with Mechanist and Citizen Service. It's going pretty fun - I've been subjugating aliens as Castes to reflect incorporating conquered elites into the power structure (while giving my synths full citizen rights as soon as I got them). I cracked open the L-gate and saw a nanite fleet get thrashed by an Ether Drake which was pretty cool. Now I've turned myself and my client species into robots (pretty bummer that the flying monkeys, penguins and murdertrees all turn to the same humanoid bot) and thought about joining a federation started by the the two Determined Exterminator empires but alas - some of their neighbors asked for protection, got integrated, assimilated and suddenly the Dekron Eliminators found themselves on the wrong side of my Pretty Borders faction. Up until this run I thought the Shared Destiny perk is pretty much useless but having to incorporate four vassals, each with 80-120 pops, made me change my mind pretty quickly. RedSnapper fucked around with this message at 09:19 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 09:16
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I was thinking of playing a bit of Stellaris again, but I was wondering if there is a mod to restore the original good FTL system? I would like to try out the new features, but neutering the game is a deal breaker for me. Or am I going to have to stick to version 1.9.1?
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May 28, 2018 12:56
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Rutibex posted:I was thinking of playing a bit of Stellaris again, but I was wondering if there is a mod to restore the original good FTL system? I would like to try out the new features, but neutering the game is a deal breaker for me. Or am I going to have to stick to version 1.9.1? Just bump hyperlane density up to 10,000 and pretend it's warp drive?
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May 28, 2018 13:21
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av/post combo
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May 28, 2018 13:24
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skeleton warrior posted:When I got this event, I only had one L-gate in my territory and I saw a bunch of other empires stars to suddenly uncolagonized, but no fleets came out to fight me. I ended up sending in 3 50K fleets, killing the nanites in the entryway system, and fought a holding action for about five years where nanite fleets would come in, get killed, and I’d rotate fleets out to get them healed and upgraded before the next nanite wave. This went on for like five years - I started wondering whether I’d started the Stellaris version of the Vietnam war - before the waves slowed enough that I could explore the star and build an outpost, upgrade it to a station, and throw shipyards on it to allow immediate healing and defense station support. In the same game I had a pulsar starbase kill the Great Khan.
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May 28, 2018 13:48
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Spanish Matlock posted:Just bump hyperlane density up to 10,000 and pretend it's warp drive? I enjoy different races having different options on the same map. That wouldn't work. Also, no wormhole drives! Is there no mod to restore the good FTL system?
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May 28, 2018 13:49
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Rutibex posted:I enjoy different races having different options on the same map. That wouldn't work. Also, no wormhole drives! The AI pathfinding code was significantly simplified when the FTL methods were changed, so I'm not sure if it's even possible to mod it back in.
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May 28, 2018 13:51
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Rutibex posted:I enjoy different races having different options on the same map. That wouldn't work. Also, no wormhole drives! Star Trek New Horizons people say it's impossible, they've had to fake warp drive in their mod.
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May 28, 2018 14:04
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Distant Stars is so good. Loving the new events, and the L-Gate stuff with the crazy nanite fleets is awesome. There's a lot of cool new things, like the Enigmatic Cache, that make the galaxy feel alive.
Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 14:08 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 14:05
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Rutibex posted:I enjoy different races having different options on the same map. That wouldn't work. Also, no wormhole drives! No. They subsumed Wormhole code into Gateways, and Warp's gone entirely. You'll take your Master of Orion and like it. Yes, I'm still a little bitter.
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May 28, 2018 14:27
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Chalks posted:The AI pathfinding code was significantly simplified when the FTL methods were changed, so I'm not sure if it's even possible to mod it back in. Thom12255 posted:Star Trek New Horizons people say it's impossible, they've had to fake warp drive in their mod.  1.9.1 it is then! Are there any mods that back-port the newer features to the old version? Bloodly posted:No. They subsumed Wormhole code into Gateways, and Warp's gone entirely. You'll take your Master of Orion and like it. Yes, I'm still a little bitter. The only Master of Orion I like is Moo2. The newer ones hosed it up with space lanes. If I wanted to play a 4X game with space lanes I would play Space Empires 4, they pretty much perfected it. Including late game technology that lets you create/destroy new lanes.
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May 28, 2018 14:35
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So, Rutibex, is Stellaris 1.9.1 peak Stellaris in the same way Minecraft peaked at 1.2.5?
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May 28, 2018 14:54
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CrazyTolradi posted:So, Rutibex, is Stellaris 1.9.1 peak Stellaris in the same way Minecraft peaked at 1.2.5? Peak minecraft is 1.7.10 with Project Ozone 2 installed.
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May 28, 2018 14:58
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For what it's worth, the hyperlane changes really improve the gameplay in a bunch of ways. Sure, there's less variety in how empires move around, but the strategic terrain of the galaxy is excellent now.
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May 28, 2018 15:02
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Chalks posted:For what it's worth, the hyperlane changes really improve the gameplay in a bunch of ways. Sure, there's less variety in how empires move around, but the strategic terrain of the galaxy is excellent now.  I was never really into Stellaris as a "strategy game". It is more of a sandbox RP galaxy simulator for me. I can't put the United Federation of Planets into my game now that they don't have warp drives. It breaks the immersion! I like the option of starlanes, then I can do EVE online vs The Federation. But having only star lanes is lame as heck. Why not just leave the other FTL options in? Its not like you didn't have the option of playing "starlane only" under the old system. What is the point of removing variety. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 15:09 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 15:07
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Rutibex posted:
In the new system - especially given the new structure of lanes and exploration system - you couldn't leave other FTL options in without completely breaking the game. Early game is now primarily about exploring the hyperlane map to work out where to best expand, there's no way you could just choose to be able to jump anywhere and have that system make any sense. Expansion has to be along hyperlanes, not just adjacent systems and there are a bunch of events and mechanics (Gates, L-Gates, wormholes) that would be completely broken if you could just jump anywhere on day one. Securing your space is now a case of reinforcing a handful of frontier bastions at choke points and having several fleets to guard them, another mechanic that would not work if you can simply jump past these chokes. Space terrain requires it to have a shape that applies to everyone. The ability for some empires to simply opt out of that system and move where ever they want doesn't add variety, it removes the all the upsides of hyperlanes and just makes it a gigantic disadvantage. The variety of the old system was interesting, but the depth that hyperlanes can bring now that they're used by everyone is far more so.
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May 28, 2018 15:15
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Another cool thing Distant Stars does is add a whole ton of unique star systems that may or may not spawn. Really, Wiz, if you guys can keep releasing little packs that add stuff like this, I'll keep buying them.
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May 28, 2018 15:21
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Chalks posted:In the new system - especially given the new structure of lanes and exploration system - you couldn't leave other FTL options in without completely breaking the game. Early game is now primarily about exploring the hyperlane map to work out where to best expand, there's no way you could just choose to be able to jump anywhere and have that system make any sense. Expansion has to be along hyperlanes, not just adjacent systems and there are a bunch of events and mechanics (Gates, L-Gates, wormholes) that would be completely broken if you could just jump anywhere on day one. Moo2 had warp drives and space terrain. You couldn't warp through space with a black hole, and going through a nebula made your warp drive go to a crawl. Taking out the other FTL options just feels lazy as gently caress to me. If they wanted to they could have added terrain modifiers to the other types of movement. Having different strategic considerations based on what sort of FTL type you opponent uses adds all sorts of interesting gameplay. If its two star lane civilization next to each other you get the choke points, but if you happen to be next to a wormhole species you need to adjust to that and play differently. That sounds like variety to me!
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May 28, 2018 15:24
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Chalks posted:For what it's worth, the hyperlane changes really improve the gameplay in a bunch of ways. Sure, there's less variety in how empires move around, but the strategic terrain of the galaxy is excellent now. Chalks posted:The variety of the old system was interesting, but the depth that hyperlanes can bring now that they're used by everyone is far more so. Milky Moor posted:Another cool thing Distant Stars does is add a whole ton of unique star systems that may or may not spawn. Really, Wiz, if you guys can keep releasing little packs that add stuff like this, I'll keep buying them. Comparing Stellaris 2.1 to Stellaris 1.0 and it just feels like a game that's been fleshed out a lot more now. I remember saying to my partner when Stellaris released that it felt like the core of a solid 4x game, but that it'd probably start to get really good after a few DLC/patches and it really feels like it's at that point now.
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May 28, 2018 15:34
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Rutibex posted:Moo2 had warp drives and space terrain. You couldn't warp through space with a black hole, and going through a nebula made your warp drive go to a crawl. Taking out the other FTL options just feels lazy as gently caress to me. If they wanted to they could have added terrain modifiers to the other types of movement. Yeah, there probably were a variety of ways that it could have been implemented, but having multiple methods obeying the same terrain limitations would always have tended towards redundancy. It seems like hyperlanes were a logical choice for wanting to implement terrain. Removing FTL options doesn't seem lazy, the laziest option would be to do nothing and leave it as it was. Cutting the options and completely rewriting a bunch of game mechanics to better compliment the remaining one, then re-implementing warp jumping and worm holes as more interesting gameplay elements is considerably more work. Just to double check you're aware that warp jumping is still in game as a mid game technology, yeah? And wormholes are an extremely powerful late game galactic wonder. I'll admit to not really understanding the RP impacts that these changes have since that's not the way I play, but in my opinion it's expanded travel from an interesting but fairly shallow choice at the start of the game to a complex system with multiple choices to be made throughout the whole game. Chalks fucked around with this message at 15:39 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 15:37
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Milky Moor posted:Another cool thing Distant Stars does is add a whole ton of unique star systems that may or may not spawn. Really, Wiz, if you guys can keep releasing little packs that add stuff like this, I'll keep buying them. Yeah I really like finding Great Wound what happened there
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May 28, 2018 15:39
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Rutibex posted:Moo2 had warp drives and space terrain. You couldn't warp through space with a black hole, and going through a nebula made your warp drive go to a crawl. Taking out the other FTL options just feels lazy as gently caress to me. If they wanted to they could have added terrain modifiers to the other types of movement. I think that the Sword of the Stars comparison is apt: Giving species different movement types works well when it's baked into their design - if not, then it's a very difficult balancing act and the AI will probably struggle. Adding variety is interesting, but the game should be able to implement it well.
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May 28, 2018 15:50
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Chalks posted:Yeah, there probably were a variety of ways that it could have been implemented, but having multiple methods obeying the same terrain limitations would always have tended towards redundancy. It seems like hyperlanes were a logical choice for wanting to implement terrain. They wouldn't all obey the same terrain, each FTL method could have its own terrain restrictions. So for example one part of the galaxy could be easily traversed by space lane guys, but black holes everywhere make it a nightmare for warp drives. Or maybe have pulsars block wormhole travel, you need advanced tech to travel near these stars, but space lane or warp ships can go there no problem. Differing terrain types for the different FTL technologies would result in much more interesting strategic situations. There would still be "choke points" but they would not be as obvious as "this system only has two space lines going to it!" and they would change based on who controlled what space. Chalks posted:Removing FTL options doesn't seem lazy, the laziest option would be to do nothing and leave it as it was. Cutting the options and completely rewriting a bunch of game mechanics to better compliment the remaining one, then re-implementing warp jumping and worm holes as more interesting gameplay elements is considerably more work. Its lazy in the sense that they didn't bother trying to flesh out the three distinct FTL types and make them more strategic in combination with each other. That would have obviously been a lot harder to design, so the lazy option is to just throw it out and do the same space lane stuff every other 4X game does. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 15:50
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Are we still mad about hyperlanes Quit gettin' mad at hyperlanes
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May 28, 2018 15:53
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I find it weird that people don't seem to get that in a world where warp and wormholes existed, taking hyperlanes was literally the trap option.Rutibex posted:They wouldn't all obey the same terrain, each FTL method could have its own terrain restrictions. So for example one part of the galaxy could be easily traversed by space lane guys, but black holes everywhere make it a nightmare for warp drives. Or maybe have pulsars block wormhole travel, you need advanced tech to travel near these stars, but space lane or warp ships can go there no problem. Differing terrain types for the different FTL technologies would result in much more interesting strategic situations. There would still be "choke points" but they would not be as obvious as "this system only has two space lines going to it!" and they would changed based on who controlled what space. I'm sure you wouldn't be mad as hell if you picked warp and then got a bunch of black holes near your starting location/where you needed to expand etc.
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May 28, 2018 15:55
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Rutibex posted:Its lazy in the sense that they didn't bother trying to flesh out the three distinct FTL types and make them more strategic in combination with each other. That would have obviously been a lot harder to design, so the lazy option is to just throw it out and do the same space lane stuff every other 4X game does. I can't blame them for taking three dysfunctional travel systems and deciding to make one working and indepth travel system with a couple variants, rather than three complexly interlocking ones. What you're describing is cool but it also sounds like an expansion unto itself. Personally I'd rather have them focus on refining the existing systems.
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May 28, 2018 15:56
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Shugojin posted:Are we still mad about hyperlanes Don't worry I'm the only one mad at hyperlanes. I'm sure after 250 pages you all are used to them and I am just an angry curmudgeon.
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May 28, 2018 15:56
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Milky Moor posted:I'm sure you wouldn't be mad as hell if you picked warp and then got a bunch of black holes near your starting location/where you needed to expand etc. Thats part of the charm of the game! Some empires will be gimped by their circumstances and the way the galaxy is laid out. That makes it a good galaxy sim, but obviously a bad strategy game. Every point in the map should not be equal.
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May 28, 2018 15:58
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Milky Moor posted:I find it weird that people don't seem to get that in a world where warp and wormholes existed, taking hyperlanes was literally the trap option. This always did confuse me.
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May 28, 2018 16:01
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Rutibex posted:Thats part of the charm of the game! Some empires will be gimped by their circumstances and the way the galaxy is laid out. That makes it a good galaxy sim, but obviously a bad strategy game. Every point in the map should not be equal.
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May 28, 2018 16:01
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I never really liked the alternate methods of space travel. From minute 1 we never used anything but hyperlanes for MP, and even in singleplayer the other two were just really bad and poorly thought out. Warp was just a cheap way to completely invalidate any kind of border defense, and Wormholes was a ton of micromanagement that left you completely unable to get to half of the galaxy by the midgame. Hyperlanes were lovely in the old version because they weren't planned out very well, despite being the only option for actual gameplay, and now they're very good. Edit: OH! And the new system really lets gateways and wormholes shine. Also the new science ship fuckery is neat. Really, I think there's actually a greater variety of FTL options in the game now than when there were three poorly thought out choices you made at the beginning of the game. Spanish Matlock fucked around with this message at 16:06 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 16:03
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Also is it just me or is the AI much better about trades in Distant Stars? I get actual trade offers of things like "hey give me x minerals, which you are full of, and i will give you x energy, which you are not full of".
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May 28, 2018 16:04
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It's not equal presently, you can get very good or very rough starts.Shugojin posted:Also is it just me or is the AI much better about trades in Distant Stars? I get actual trade offers of things like "hey give me x minerals, which you are full of, and i will give you x energy, which you are not full of". Everyone just keeps on giving me free poo poo with is a bit weird tbh.
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May 28, 2018 16:04
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Shugojin posted:Also is it just me or is the AI much better about trades in Distant Stars? I get actual trade offers of things like "hey give me x minerals, which you are full of, and i will give you x energy, which you are not full of". I just had some random power I've never interacted with give me 12,000 minerals, so they're pretty smart.
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May 28, 2018 16:07
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Hmm, I just noticed something but apparently when you upgrade a starbase with modules that have combat effects, it also upgrades the defence platforms with those effects too. So on a full combat starbase the defence platforms have +60% health and armour and +70% range. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:13 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 16:10
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Hyperlanes Only is the best change to the game ever, and enshrines Wiz amongst the Pantheon of the Wise and Great.
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May 28, 2018 16:17
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Milky Moor posted:I find it weird that people don't seem to get that in a world where warp and wormholes existed, taking hyperlanes was literally the trap option. I don't think it has to be. In SotS, the hyperlane options were totally viable because they were very fast compared to the other travel modes, and that worked well in combination with the expansionist species that used them. Whereas the warp drives were comparatively slow, and gateways had all sorts of limits on them. And even then, all the species could use STL travel as a backup when necessary. But their movement types were bound up with their other racial traits. The strength of individual Morrigi vessels was balanced by how slow they traveled when alone. The potent swarms of Hivers were balanced by limitations on how many could fit through a gate. The races who could react quickly tended to have weaker ships meaning they needed spend more time marshaling forces. It wasn't a perfect system, but it was one founded upon counterbalances. I do agree that without those counterbalances, the inherent inflexibility of node-based travel would always really struggle to compete in an asymmetric system. Baronjutter posted:I just had some random power I've never interacted with give me 12,000 minerals, so they're pretty smart. And I bet your Opinion of them improved, didn't it? 
Kaal fucked around with this message at 16:27 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 16:19
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While you can certainly have multiple FTL types in the same game, for Stellaris in particular I think it would have necessitated significant reworking on the galaxy layer to make it function well. Things like 'nebulas and black holes slow your FTL' sounds good on paper but Stellaris doesn't have the right kind of map data granularity to do that well, and it's already difficult enough to locate certain types of systems without map mode toggling or carefully mousing over systems for tooltips. I also don't want to imagine the performance hit of detailed FTL pathfinding in a realtime game with lots of AI empires and one-button-press fleet reinforcements that sends lone ships out by the dozens. Hyperlanes-only also made individual system characteristics actually more important, because things like black holes reducing movement speed frankly didn't matter in the past when you literally never moved from your jump-in point while en route elsewhere. Now you have to actually traverse the system and it matters, along with lane layouts creating natural chokes and defense stations to further inhibit movement. The switch also coincided with a much more discrete claim system which I prefer to the old "eyeball the border range and hope it doesn't get pushed back", though I suppose that change isn't inherently tied to FTL mechanics.
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May 28, 2018 17:03
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OwlFancier posted:Hmm, I just noticed something but apparently when you upgrade a starbase with modules that have combat effects, it also upgrades the defence platforms with those effects too. And +fire rate from the Command Centre. This means you can put autocannons and plasma cannons on your platforms and not be particularly gimped. Or stick KA and Neutrons on there and kill anything the moment it arrives in-system.
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May 28, 2018 17:22
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