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My opinion was that everything that had to do with the Poe/Finn/Holdo side of the plot was really bad and felt like a mediocre episode of Battlestar Galactica, while all the Rey/Luke/Kylo stuff was great. Neither Poe nor Holdo comes off good in their story: they both act like complete assholes, and then the new female admiral is fridged to teach Poe an important lesson about leadership or something.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:12
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Dapper_Swindler posted:ehh. thats unfair. not all of the movies hatred is driven by chud bullshit. alot of themes and scenes didnt work well or were dumb as poo poo. holdo was fine but the whole conflict between her and poe felt kinda forced and dumb. plus the low speed chase thing. Notice I didn't say "all" I said "a whole lot." I'm not calling everyone who hated the movie a chud, but there's definitely a chud side of the reaction and it's the people who freaked out about Purple Haired Laura Dern. Neddy Seagoon posted:Part of the problem with the discussion is the actual real issue with that scene skews close enough to that that it can get muddled as a single general opinion. And I do think, aside from a faulty setup, that the movie itself is quite good. The actual issue with the scene in question is with her keeping the crew in the dark on the plan serves no purpose. They are it for the Resistance, and it's a plan with a future that a despairing and desperate crew can get behind. As of the movie's setup, all anyone can otherwise see including the audience is that they are just going to run down the fuel tank with no plan at all. Maybe give the crew at least some kind of inference or instruction that there's an operation going, because apparently several people have tried to bail in escape pods already under the assumption there isn't one, and it causes a near-shipwide mutiny in the end under said general assumption of there being no plan I 100% agree with this, it's absolutely manufactured drama at it's finest, but the complaints I'm hearing from the people who are claiming this movie "ruined Star Wars" aren't usually this detail oriented, they're just calling Laura Dern a stupid bitch.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:14
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's not a hard premise to fix either, and still keep in line with the movie's general message of failure. Have Holdo tell Poe the plan, and let her authorize his scheme as a mission. As it stands, they still have the ditch-the-ship plan in place, but for the cost of 1-2 people and an escape pod they could just maybe manage to save their last capital ship. It still has the ticking clock premise, and it makes the failures/delays all the more personal because now they actually have the last dying flickers of hope in the Resistance riding on their potential success instead of just feeling smug about having a plan while their CO evidently doesn't. He doesn’t have to be. He’s just enough of a dangerous fuckup to also be kept out of the plans they’re keeping secret so hypothetical traitors can’t leak them. Two separate, interlinking things going on there.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:19
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Pretty sure the guy that just killed a capital ship to buy time for their retreat and has worked his way up to a squadron-leading position over several years isn't a traitor Counterpoint: Poe literally betrays the Resistance when tells Finn and Rose about Holdo's plan within earshot of DJ. He did it by accident, but it still happened, and that's exactly what Holdo was trying to avoid by keeping mum about the plan.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:21
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TheMaestroso posted:Counterpoint: Poe literally betrays the Resistance when tells Finn and Rose about Holdo's plan within earshot of DJ. He did it by accident, but it still happened, and that's exactly what Holdo was trying to avoid by keeping mum about the plan. Darth Walrus posted:He doesn’t have to be. He’s just enough of a dangerous fuckup to also be kept out of the plans they’re keeping secret so hypothetical traitors can’t leak them. Two separate, interlinking things going on there. Nothing stopping her from taking him into a private room and telling him there's a plan in play, so sit down and wait for orders when the time's right. Brushing him off out of hand just makes her look incompetent, to both Poe and the audience (key important thing there) instead of the supposedly-famous general she's described to be.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:24
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It's one of the things about the movie that I feel was done more for the sake of subversion and being clever than anything else. At first I really liked the movie, but it increasingly feels like its relying on 9 properly sticking the landing.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:28
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it's the same thing with ghostbusters. you had a load chud crowd hating it cuz it was women. but the movie was mediocre (and terrible when compared to the original) and pointing that out doesn't make one a chud. though it does remind me of a coworker forwarding on his brother's complaints about last jedi where the first few were valid and then the last one was an anti-sjw complaint and i had to lol.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:30
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Her keeping everyone in the dark felt like a flimsy excuse to keep the viewers in the dark. It’s a big pet peeve of mine in fiction when characters keep secrets from one another for no in-universe reason, because the writer doesn’t want to spoil some sort of dramatic reveal. I liked the movie, including the casino sidequest and the Luke stuff, but that bit of forced tension was a low point for me.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:31
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Telling your top secret plan to someone who just been demoted for subordination dosent make any sense , I find this one a real odd thing to complain about .
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Jun 2, 2018 17:32
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's the same thing with ghostbusters. you had a load chud crowd hating it cuz it was women. but the movie was mediocre (and terrible when compared to the original) and pointing that out doesn't make one a chud. Oh come on, Ghostbusters remake was a shitload worst than TLJ, they don't even deserve to be brought up in the same sentence. One is an hours-long improv contest edited down into a "movie" and the other is an actual movie.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:33
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admataY posted:Telling your top secret plan to someone who just been demoted for subordination dosent make any sense , I find this one a real odd thing to complain about . Context is key here; They are literally all there is left of the Resistance, there's a bigass Imperial ship pounding their collective asses, and all Poe has asked is the sensible question of "what are we going to do about it?" Telling Poe to pound sand and make it seem like she has nothing planned beyond running does not make her look like a competent leader, as a character or from a storytelling perspective. Again, it doesn't have to be the whole plan, but there's nothing wrong with a simple "sit tight and wait til the time is right, we have something planned and a job for you" at the very least.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:36
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admataY posted:Telling your top secret plan to someone who just been demoted for subordination dosent make any sense , I find this one a real odd thing to complain about . Because no matter how much you love jerking off the self importance of commissioned officers, playing the decorum and hierarchy are super important card in a situation of literal existential crisis is super dumb. Again, there is no Resistance establishment to point to. They are it.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:36
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WampaLord posted:Oh come on, Ghostbusters remake was a shitload worst than TLJ, they don't even deserve to be brought up in the same sentence. i didn't mean to compare the quality. i meant to compare the reactions.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:41
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Playstation 4 posted:Because no matter how much you love jerking off the self importance of commissioned officers, playing the decorum and hierarchy are super important card in a situation of literal existential crisis is super dumb. Again, there is no Resistance establishment to point to. They are it. The problem was that Poe had made himself part of that existential crisis. He’d already proven lethally disruptive to one escape plan, so why bring him in on another? ‘We all have to stick together and make decisions as a team’ doesn’t work when one guy is not a team player.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:43
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Well my head canon is that the admiral didn't share the info with Poe because she got spooked by the undeniable sexual tension between them. First Leia then Holdo , Flyboy clearly love them older ladies.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:43
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Darth Walrus posted:The problem was that Poe had made himself part of that existential crisis. He’d already proven lethally disruptive to one escape plan, so why bring him in on another? ‘We all have to stick together and make decisions as a team’ doesn’t work when one guy is not a team player. I wasn't aware he somehow managed to execute an operation involving multiple crewed assault craft and dozens of personnel completely on his own without any kind of authorization from a command officer. Also the team player thing just plain doesn't fly when he's asking why aren't they doing something to keep the team alive and safe and clearly looking for instructions.
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Jun 2, 2018 17:45
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I wasn't aware he somehow managed to execute an operation involving multiple crewed assault craft and dozens of personnel completely on his own without any kind of authorization from a command officer. You might want to re-watch the opening, then. The whole point is that he forces the issue and drags the Resistance into a devastating and unnecessary battle. You’re also confusing tell and show. He told us that his actions were about the team, but his actions showed that they were about his own ego. Did you really miss all that ‘gently caress you, mom, you can’t tell me what to do’ subtext? Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 17:48
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Shut up about Star Wars, there's a new ContraPoints video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1dJ8whOM8E
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Jun 2, 2018 17:53
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Mr.Radar posted:Shut up about Star Wars This.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:02
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The mean lady didn't give Poe a medal and suck his dick figuratively. 
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Jun 2, 2018 18:12
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Mr.Radar posted:Shut up about Star Wars, there's a new ContraPoints video the end is fairly brutal, the content warnings are not a joke
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Jun 2, 2018 18:18
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MariusLecter posted:The mean lady didn't give Poe a medal and suck his dick figuratively. Nah she was just a bad leader who existed strictly for ~subversion~ and to obfuscate a situation that could've been better handled better by just owning up and not putting their loose cannon in a situation where he might risk doing loose cannon things because he feels there's no other way to save people.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:19
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Mr.Radar posted:Shut up about Star Wars, there's a new ContraPoints video This is a great video, but you'll never get me to shut up about Star Wars. 
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Jun 2, 2018 18:26
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Nah she was just a bad leader who existed strictly for ~subversion~ and to obfuscate a situation that could've been better handled better by just owning up and not putting their loose cannon in a situation where he might risk doing loose cannon things because he feels there's no other way to save people. You're right, she should have had him shot out an airlock as soon as she took command. Good point.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:28
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hmm nah
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Jun 2, 2018 18:34
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I was on a flight and someone in front of me was watching Raiders of the Lost Ark. I used to watch that and Star Wars repeatedly as a kid, but had very limited exposure to the rest of their respective franchises, and that's why I have nostalgic fondness for them and for none of their sequels.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:34
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We've already had this Holdo derail, and Neddy Seagoon was at the epicenter of that one, too. It went exactly the same way and nobody convinced anybody.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:36
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Darth Walrus posted:You might want to re-watch the opening, then. The whole point is that he forces the issue and drags the Resistance into a devastating and unnecessary battle. The whole point is actually that the Resistance isn't a coherent military unit and that Leia (and later Holdo) are wrong for trying to treat it as one. By forgetting the roots of the Rebellion's military success (wild assaults with suicidal strike craft) they have lost touch with the common people doing all the fighting and dying, which is why Poe commands the respect of his bombers and isn't alone when it comes time to mutiny. This is why Holdo's plotline ends with her redeeming herself by adopting Poe's tactics.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:43
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It's an interesting contrast: two movie franchises produced by the same house, involving a trilogy, starting about the same time, with at least one shared actor. One became this whole big big Expanded Universe with many video-game tie-ins, eliciting multiple prequels and additional sequels decades on, both in cinema and on television, while the other had basically stagnated, leading to a couple of games, one belated sequel, a bit of a prequel series that never went too far. Is it because of how big a canvass a galaxy far, far away can be?
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Jun 2, 2018 18:46
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Shocked that the film about making mistakes and learning from them has a plot driven by major characters having made mistakes
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Jun 2, 2018 18:49
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Darth Walrus posted:You might want to re-watch the opening, then. The whole point is that he forces the issue and drags the Resistance into a devastating and unnecessary battle. You’re also confusing tell and show. He told us that his actions were about the team, but his actions showed that they were about his own ego. Did you really miss all that ‘gently caress you, mom, you can’t tell me what to do’ subtext? The point of the opening and Leia's scene with Poe afterwards is to drill into him the lesson "don't burn your assets for short-term gain". Holdo pops into existence immediately after this to only act as an apparent opponent to this new mantra bestowed upon protagonist and audience. It's why he's so driven to do something to save their biggest asset.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:50
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Junpei Hyde posted:Shocked that the film about making mistakes and learning from them has a plot driven by major characters having made mistakes Shocked to learn holding to your premise can still mean nothing if you're poo poo.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:50
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Junpei Hyde posted:Shocked that the film about making mistakes and learning from them has a plot driven by major characters having made mistakes I thought it was a film about family?
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Jun 2, 2018 18:55
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Absurd Alhazred posted:It's an interesting contrast: two movie franchises produced by the same house, involving a trilogy, starting about the same time, with at least one shared actor. One became this whole big big Expanded Universe with many video-game tie-ins, eliciting multiple prequels and additional sequels decades on, both in cinema and on television, while the other had basically stagnated, leading to a couple of games, one belated sequel, a bit of a prequel series that never went too far. Is it because of how big a canvass a galaxy far, far away can be? Yes, but also that Indiana Jones is specifically centered on the eponymous character. There isn't a powerful hook for establishing the franchise the way there is with Star Wars, but it's not like there isn't room for more stories in the setting of an Earth full of real magical artifacts... it's just doubling limiting in that moving beyond Jones himself would beg the question of how it's even the same franchise at all.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:56
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:I thought it was a film about family? You're thinking of Deadpool 2
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Jun 2, 2018 19:02
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Goa Tse-tung posted:the end is fairly brutal, the content warnings are not a joke Definitely. I didn't watch the video until after I posted it or I probably would have said something similar. In other news, Mike Jeavons is fulfilling his promise to do a week on vegan since he hit 100k subs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1n6rsJrNek
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Jun 2, 2018 19:09
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Maybe if Holdo had told anybody about her plan it would have been reasonable but were left to assume that she kept everyone in the dark.
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Jun 2, 2018 19:13
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I would be a youtuber. someone give me the start up.
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Jun 2, 2018 19:25
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FoldableHuman posted:Assuming you have the standard "as little as I can get away with" budget, the Blue Yeti is actually a pretty good intersection of quality and price since there's so many on the second hand market. It's not amazing (which is why there's so many on the second hand market) but it's good enough, and it's super popular so there's a million and one tutorials out there on just about any problem or quirk that could ever crop up with one. Better setups don't really start to pay off until you're in the $300 range because you need both a good mic and a good interface. (The Yeti is basically a decent mic and a mediocre interface.) For the overwhelming majority of people starting out issues like room noise and mic technique are going to make a far greater impact on quality than the hardware limitations of the Yeti. Just to expand on the Blue Yeti, just note that it is super sensitive. Like it's gonna catch you inhaling (even from 6 inches away), your lips smacking, your tongue hitting your teeth, the neighbor's dog farting, and the fire department 2 miles down the road responding to a call. Learn noise gating in Audacity so it will automatically mute all those low sounds so you wont have to do it manually. Or make sure you have background music that will hide it, like heavy metal or hardcore gangster rap. When I make LP videos the recording, video editing and commentating combined and doubled doesn't come near the time I would spend manually editing the inhales, lip smacks and chair squeaks. I was gonna post some comparison videos of when I used a blue snowball and when I upgraded to a blue yeti but uh... why the hell is my commentary louder using the snowball then the yeti what am I doing wrong 
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Jun 2, 2018 19:33
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One thing I rarely see mentioned is the only reason the Rebels can stay out of weapon range during the chase is because the 'fleet killer' Imperial Dreadnought got blown up. It didn't make any sense to sacrifice so much to destroy it before they knew they were being tracked but seeing how all their fighters got destroyed when they got ambushed after the jump, Poe ignoring orders and taking it down there and then was absolutely the right call in hindsight. Honestly it's a pretty muddled movie, but I still like it a lot and am excited to see where Episode 9 takes the story.
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Jun 2, 2018 19:45
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