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Barring some strange Ecco role madness, I don’t think AS is scum. And I think she needs to die today. Soda’s pgo claim, if it is real, actually benefits the scum way more than town. If we assume the claim is legit, the scum aren’t going to push to get soda lynched because she isn’t a threat. They obviously wont target her tonight, but it’s possible a town player may target her and wind up dead. ##vote Atomic Soda
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Jun 4, 2018 17:58
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CCKeane posted:To make sure we're all on the same page here, you are claiming that you are a death Miller pgo, that you a joking with Mona and bk, Mona agrees with your claim, and that your alignment is explicitly town, despite flipping differently, and that you'd cop as town, despite being a phone, and that your role play explictly gives this detail about the mechanics of another role (town result vs. Not town for an investigative role) i assume phone is pgo but this is p much correct. given i am town, i only assume town will investigate as town. the alignment i will flip as is wild aligned.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:32
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I will flip as something other than town and I am town aligned. This makes 100% sense to me I just think soda didn't fully understand what being a Miller means I really don't wanna kill her now and I think AAs vote and TMs votes are p lovely Also Keane is coming off as extremely defensive like he has something to prove which makes me think soda may be right about her scum call on Keane. Right now I would vote AA, TM, or Keane Imma start with Keane and see what happens ##unvote ##vote cckeane
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Jun 4, 2018 18:36
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Just to clarify on a PGO - They kill anyone that visits them regardless if they are friendly or not correct?
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Jun 4, 2018 18:37
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SalTheBard posted:Just to clarify on a PGO - They kill anyone that visits them regardless if they are friendly or not correct? Yeah
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Jun 4, 2018 18:37
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Moatillata posted:I will flip as something other than town and I am town aligned. This makes 100% sense to me I just think soda didn't fully understand what being a Miller means Hmm, very interesting. I still don’t get why scum would vote for a claimed pgo though.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:44
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Moatillata posted:Also Keane is coming off as extremely defensive like he has something to prove which makes me think soda may be right about her scum call on Keane. Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "something to prove?" I'm leaning away from an AS vote for now because she's both claimed her role outright and has been making reads. The PGO piece may still be a problem but I'd prefer to give it a day or two to see if we wind up with multiple kills and then revisit.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:46
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Atomic Soda posted:i assume phone is pgo but this is p much correct. given i am town, i only assume town will investigate as town. the alignment i will flip as is wild aligned. So now you're merely assuming that you'd investigate as town instead of not scum?
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Jun 4, 2018 19:03
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IllegallySober posted:Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "something to prove?" Look at his response to my request for his response He gave a snarky response, went back and cleaned it up and then doubled down even more and tried to find a case for it He could have just let it go at the first response and it would have been fine and I've seen him do that in previous games. Also wrt to this b-minus1 posted:Hmm, very interesting. We are assuming there is a redirector but there may not be one in which case it would behoove scum to push the soda lynch in which all parties are blameless and doesn't give us a bunch of info.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:04
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Another thought is she may be 3p but with my flavor and Monas flavor and the fact that this is an eccogame I am really inclined to believe what she's saying
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Jun 4, 2018 19:05
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Moatillata posted:We are assuming there is a redirector but there may not be one in which case it would behoove scum to push the soda lynch in which all parties are blameless and doesn't give us a bunch of info. Sorry for being more dense than usual, but why exactly are we assuming there is a redirector? If there is a redirector, the smart play would be to keep AS alive, and then redirect a town player to target the pgo. IMO Though now that I think about it, scum would want to kill AS to prevent a town power role forcing one of them to visit Soda. Lol, this is what I get for trying to play night action mafia on d1
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Jun 4, 2018 19:15
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Moatillata posted:I will flip as something other than town and I am town aligned. This makes 100% sense to me I just think soda didn't fully understand what being a Miller means Soda isn't a new player or an idiot from experience, what would they misinterpret about miller?
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Jun 4, 2018 19:18
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CCKeane posted:So now you're merely assuming that you'd investigate as town instead of not scum? i don't understand what you are driving at with this line sorry. i know i will investigate as town, thats it. it seems mostly irrelevant unless you are 3p, is there a big difference otherwise? i'm going to bed in 10 minutes its past 4am, i will be up before deadline
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Jun 4, 2018 19:21
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b-minus1 posted:Sorry for being more dense than usual, but why exactly are we assuming there is a redirector? Also, ignoring tricky night actions scum have no way to get rid of a PGO from an endgame standpoint. Thats really not relevant at all right now, and given its also a Death-Miller claim scum could be confident that town will not leave that player around to the endgame. But its germane to the root of your question of "why would scum vote for a PGO"
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Jun 4, 2018 19:22
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Soda isn't a new player or an idiot from experience, what would they misinterpret about miller? err what did i misinterpret drat it? isn't deathmiller a townie who doesn't flip townie?
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Jun 4, 2018 19:24
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Atomic Soda posted:i don't understand what you are driving at with this line sorry. i know i will investigate as town, thats it. it seems mostly irrelevant unless you are 3p, is there a big difference otherwise? Right, so you are clamining that you know the cop receives results as town/not town then, correct? I find this extremely bizarre.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:25
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Moatillata posted:Look at his response to my request for his response I'm skimming at work, to clarify, we're talking about this exchange and his posts right after? CCKeane posted:Okay.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:27
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b-minus1 posted:Sorry for being more dense than usual, but why exactly are we assuming there is a redirector? Okay, so when you said this b-minus1 posted:Hmm, very interesting. Why do you think scum WOULDN'T vote for the claimed PGO if you weren't assuming redirector MY EYE IS UPON YOU
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Jun 4, 2018 19:29
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IllegallySober posted:I'm skimming at work, to clarify, we're talking about this exchange and his posts right after? Yeah
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Jun 4, 2018 19:29
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Atomic Soda posted:err what did i misinterpret drat it? isn't deathmiller a townie who doesn't flip townie? mafiascum wiki posted:A rather controversial twist is the Death Miller, whose alignment is shown as "Mafia" by the Moderator upon death. This has been argued and discussed in Ethics Threads as a source of distrust in the Moderator, which most people feel should not be tolerated. Thus, the Death Miller is an particularly scarcely-used role even in bastard mod games.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:33
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occam's razor leads me to think this claim is false. but then the way b-minus engages with it strikes me as odd as well. maybe it's just because i don't agree with his logic but he pings me
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Jun 4, 2018 19:37
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well poo poo, should have checked the wiki for both roles i flagged i was unsure when i claimed is all i'll say in my defense Atomic Soda posted:
sorry and goodnight!
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Jun 4, 2018 19:41
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Jonathan Fisk posted:occam's razor leads me to think this claim is false. but then the way b-minus engages with it strikes me as odd as well. maybe it's just because i don't agree with his logic but he pings me Yeah lets kill the hell out of b-minus he's a punk. I need to rethink a bit in light of all these sudden "death millers" and figure out why AS wasn't as forthright as the others were. Although she did say "not sure I will flip scum" so unless that whole group is scum I still tend to think it was not a fake claim.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:45
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Atomic Soda posted:well poo poo, should have checked the wiki for both roles Ha nice timing AS
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Jun 4, 2018 19:45
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Moatillata posted:Okay, so when you said this Jonathan Fisk posted:occam's razor leads me to think this claim is false. but then the way b-minus engages with it strikes me as odd as well. maybe it's just because i don't agree with his logic but he pings me lol. i hope you are scum.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:46
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cant stop postingb-minus1 posted:i already offered an explanation why scum would ignore the pgo claim, because they obviously wouldnt visit the pgo at night. I wasn't assuming any role other than what is being claimed. You're the one who mentioned redirector out of nowhere lol i raised it in my claim post so its hardly out of nowhere Atomic Soda posted:claiming is a problem also cause if scum have a redirector they just gunna feed townies into my fire, but i think its better than sitting on this info.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:51
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it wouldn't be a mafia game without me overlooking something. ##unvote I stand by what I said earlier. If we decide that Atomic Soda should be lynched today, I would like to be the one that hammers. If it turns out to be a gambit and she's actually a jester/bomb/some other lethal role, then I don't mind dying.
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Jun 4, 2018 20:05
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##unvote ##vote AS Forgot the cardinal rule
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Jun 4, 2018 20:40
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Atomic Soda why aren't you self-voting?
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Jun 4, 2018 20:52
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After all this I've come around to believe the claim, so now I ask: What's the problem with keeping AS alive? She's essentially a vanilla town (assuming it's not a gambit) What town in their right mind would visit her after all this? I'd propose Keane, Hal or TM as alternatives for a lunch today. Phone posting until an hour or two before deadline, so any requests for detailed cases on these players will be obliged at a later time.
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Jun 4, 2018 21:19
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I think Keane's posting (whom I think is probable scum) as it relates to AS' claim points to the likelyhood that the scums do not have a redirector.
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Jun 4, 2018 21:26
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Dick Bastardly posted:I think Keane's posting (whom I think is probable scum) as it relates to AS' claim points to the likelyhood that the scums do not have a redirector. how did you come to this conclusion
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Jun 4, 2018 21:31
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Dick Bastardly posted:After all this I've come around to believe the claim, so now I ask: What's the problem with keeping AS alive? She's essentially a vanilla town (assuming it's not a gambit) Massive distraction for the rest of the game; every day she's alive some portion of the playerbase is going to want her gone. Scum can easily argue loudly about the pros and cons to avoid posting reads. Eventually she will have to be killed off because you can't let the potential for a gambit stand until the end of the game, and she can never be cleared by any tower power. So then AFTER she dies its another shitfest of speculation about whether she was really scum or not, and people are going to go back and re-read all her posts and interactions and try and argue whether she was really scum gambiting or actually a death miller. All of this will be completely unproductive and not help the town find scum at all. But people are going to do it. And again, scum can participate in this instead of being pressed for reads and having to make (fake) cases. So, I strongly argue to get rid of her now and minimize the amount of wasted time towns spends discussing a PGO Death Miller. I don't really mind that its the subject of Day 1 cause Day 1 sucks anyways and I generally don't like the crapshoot of dissecting people's jokeposts for scummy behavior. But if we're still talking about this Day 2, Day 3, etc, its going to be very frustrating. Even if you believe her (If forced to choose, I would say she's probably truthful), the best move for town in the long run is to eliminate her now.
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Jun 4, 2018 21:50
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Dick Bastardly posted:After all this I've come around to believe the claim, so now I ask: What's the problem with keeping AS alive? She's essentially a vanilla town (assuming it's not a gambit) I refuse to be an alternative, either go all in on me or go home
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Jun 4, 2018 22:33
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b-minus1 posted:Atomic Soda why aren't you self-voting? I believe AS said that they were going to be the one to hammer just to ensure there was no bomb mechanic or whatever.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:43
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Dick Bastardly posted:After all this I've come around to believe the claim, so now I ask: What's the problem with keeping AS alive? She's essentially a vanilla town (assuming it's not a gambit) If the scum team has any sort of redirect roles they can redirect people into AS to have them get killed. Then it's almost like they get two NKs.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:44
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Plus like others have said it's better to get rid of her (no offense AS) now than to have her sitting around causing a distraction.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:47
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SalTheBard posted:I believe AS said that they were going to be the one to hammer just to ensure there was no bomb mechanic or whatever. ok, this is what should happen. still don't understand why AS is voting keane
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Jun 4, 2018 22:52
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b-minus1 posted:how did you come to this conclusion I think I can at least see what Bastardly is looking at, namely that Keane's being extremely aggressive (as Moat points out, as well) with regards to this push on AS, and, as a result he is looking a bit scummy for it. If you take the assumption that we have Scum Keane over Town Keane right now, the aggressiveness in pushing for a lunch of AS (who has been more or less forthright with her role) would lead you to believe that the scum team likely does not have a good way to take advantage of AS' PGO role. For what it's worth, coming back to the thread, I think Keane is reading more suspicious than Hal.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:52
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Moatillata posted:Another thought is she may be 3p but with my flavor and Monas flavor and the fact that this is an eccogame I am really inclined to believe what she's saying To clarify, it is not 100% a Deathmiller but it is a Psuedo-Deathmiller mechanic. I will be flipping something other than Town-Aligned on my death, much like AS. I cannot confirm one way or another that either my flip is not the True Scum Alignment this game, and I assume AS' flavor is similar, hence shorthanding it to a Deathmiller.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:54
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