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khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

achillesforever6 posted:

Wait I thought Age of Mythology is regarded pretty well in the RTS community both contemporary and today :psyduck:

Well, yeah it is actually, and its my favorite Age Of game, but nowhere near as many people play it now as they do for AoE2.

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Zedd
Jul 6, 2009

I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?



khwarezm posted:

Well, yeah it is actually, and its my favorite Age Of game, but nowhere near as many people play it now as they do for AoE2.
That's partially because the remaster is godawful performancewise (which doesn't matter to most of us mind you, you can bruteforce it with modern pc's) and the online community being split between the community ESO replacement and the remaster. And I actually enjoyed the remaster a lot, and I used to play at a decent level (~1750) on ESO during it's heyday.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Zedd posted:

That's partially because the remaster is godawful performancewise (which doesn't matter to most of us mind you, you can bruteforce it with modern pc's) and the online community being split between the community ESO replacement and the remaster. And I actually enjoyed the remaster a lot, and I used to play at a decent level (~1750) on ESO during it's heyday.


Yeah but all that applies to AoE2 as well (especially the split player base).

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Should They Have Done More With Dark Souls Remastered? (The Jimquisition)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTNRPkuhvyw

(yes, they should've)

Acute Grill
Dec 9, 2011

Chomp

Augus posted:

Should They Have Done More With Dark Souls Remastered? (The Jimquisition)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTNRPkuhvyw

(yes, they should've)

Dark Souls: Remastered was in an unfortunate place where their game was famously unfinished and therefore in a perfect place for a remaster/director's cut that actually fixed that poo poo, and a rabid fanbase who would literally never stop screaming if the remaster changed the position of even one single hollow. Since they couldn't win, the Devs made the right business decision by choosing the less expensive option of updating some textures and throwing it out for the superfans but man, what could have been...

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

I'd have been happy if they made the room with the Capra Demon fight in it a little bit bigger.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


the fact that they didn't even update the lava texture in lost izalith is pretty unforgiveable

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Acute Grill posted:

Dark Souls: Remastered was in an unfortunate place where their game was famously unfinished and therefore in a perfect place for a remaster/director's cut that actually fixed that poo poo, and a rabid fanbase who would literally never stop screaming if the remaster changed the position of even one single hollow. Since they couldn't win, the Devs made the right business decision by choosing the less expensive option of updating some textures and throwing it out for the superfans but man, what could have been...

I've been saying this same thing, they were asking for a torrent of poo poo whatever they did, nothing changes, people gripe, anything changes, people gripe. I wish they would've just done a DS1 Scholar of the First Sin, changed up enemies and encounters, new things, maybe a new ending, the NG+'s in SotFS actually changed stuff even more and did some cool things and let you get further more new things.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
Couldn't they have just had an option to go back to the original (with 60 fps) if people were going to moan? Tons of remasters like Day of the Tentacle or the Master Chief collection do that, albeit they don't effect gameplay, just the graphics, so you'd probably have to restart the game if you really couldn't stand a Dark Souls 'Enhanced Edition' thing.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006

Dark Souls has the online mode to it. Including an original and remixed mode would split the online playerbase.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.
you know what remaster or at least re-release i am hoping for next. the resistance trilogy. those were pretty solid/good as whole. they were made by insomniac and had a pretty decent following.

Max Wilco
Jan 23, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

Roth posted:

I'd have been happy if they made the room with the Capra Demon fight in it a little bit bigger.

:yeah: Also, maybe, the Anor Londo archers.

I will say, though, that while it is lazy in design, I thought part of the reason for putting multiple Capra and Taurus demons down for you to fight in Demon Ruins was to show how much stronger you had gotten by throwing bosses at you as regular enemies.

My big problem with Lost Izalith is how most of the first part is covered in magma you have to traverse, and even with the Orange Charred Ring and plentiful Estus Flasks, you've still got to sacrifice a little health and armor durability to get in Lost Izalith proper (to clarify, I know there's the hidden bonfire in the ruin across from the branch you have to climb). Bed of Chaos was something I sort of wanted to see get fixed, but I didn't really have high hopes, because I didn't see how they could alter the fight to allow it. Stuff like adding the bonfire near skelly-blacksmith dude seems relatively simple enough, as would removing the multiple Taurus/Capra demons. However, I don't know how you'd fix Bed of Chaos, apart from removing/altering attacks, or setting it so that the floor didn't collapse.

I haven't picked up the Dark Souls 1 remaster yet, and I still don't know if I should. I beat the Prepare to Die version (which is no longer available on Steam), but I never did the DLC or Painted World. The only thing that I'm interested in in regards to the remaster is the improved online.

At the end of the day, I would have prefered that we had gotten a Demon's Souls remaster. Jim complains about not being able to climb up ladders faster, but Demon's Souls is way worse about ladder travel, among other things.

Solitair
Feb 18, 2014

TODAY'S GONNA BE A GOOD MOTHERFUCKIN' DAY!!!
The first I heard about the remastered Dark Souls was from a podcast that was down on it because the higher resolution made the textures look terrible.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Max Wilco posted:

Also, maybe, the Anor Londo archers.

No, they should've made the walkway leading to them even longer. :getin:

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Max Wilco posted:

:yeah: Also, maybe, the Anor Londo archers.

I will say, though, that while it is lazy in design, I thought part of the reason for putting multiple Capra and Taurus demons down for you to fight in Demon Ruins was to show how much stronger you had gotten by throwing bosses at you as regular enemies.

That was nice, but I found out later that the Capra and Taurus demons you meet in the Demon Ruins are actually weaker than the boss versions which takes away a bit from that. The main thing I really hated was seeing the identical demons just standing around doing nothing in a featureless plain, only existing for you to kill. That was really jarring for me, I know it's kind of trite to say this but seeing them there just waiting for me to kill them felt so videogamey in a way that was really incongruous with the rest of the game, one of Dark Souls's greatest strengths was tricking the player into seeing the world as an actual place with it's own history and inhabitants and seeing all the copy pasted demons lined up in the middle of nowhere patiently standing around for you to kill them absolutely shattered my sense of immersion. And it's even worse since the whole place was covered in a lake of lava not moments before but when you go down suddenly you have all these Taurus demons standing around out of nowhere, its so bad!

Max Wilco
Jan 23, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

Yardbomb posted:

No, they should've made the walkway leading to them even longer. :getin:

I guess you could just try Miyazaki's method, which was to use poison arrows or something from afar and wait for them to die.

That is, assuming you have ranged poison ammo once you get to Anor Londo, and that if you don't, you know that you can go back to Sen's Fortress.


khwarezm posted:

That was nice, but I found out later that the Capra and Taurus demons you meet in the Demon Ruins are actually weaker than the boss versions which takes away a bit from that. The main thing I really hated was seeing the identical demons just standing around doing nothing in a featureless plain, only existing for you to kill. That was really jarring for me, I know it's kind of trite to say this but seeing them there just waiting for me to kill them felt so videogamey in a way that was really incongruous with the rest of the game, one of Dark Souls's greatest strengths was tricking the player into seeing the world as an actual place with it's own history and inhabitants and seeing all the copy pasted demons lined up in the middle of nowhere patiently standing around for you to kill them absolutely shattered my sense of immersion. And it's even worse since the whole place was covered in a lake of lava not moments before but when you go down suddenly you have all these Taurus demons standing around out of nowhere, its so bad!

See when I first got to that area, I didn't think you would venture down there, since it's flooded with lava. I remember just seeing the five or so Taurus demons standing out down there, and I thought it was just a little neat touch, like 'oh, this is where these guys come from, and they just spend their time just hanging out in the lava.' It wasn't until later that I drained the lava and saw that you could go down there.

Seeing the Capra Demons guarding the hall was similar to when I first got to Sen's Fortress and saw the swinging blades, where I just stopped and went, "Oh...Good..." :shepicide: In both cases, though, they ended up being relatively easy.

Actually, two other things I though of: the are the dragon butts in Lost Izalith, but there's also that weird one in the Painted World. As far as bonfire placement goes, there's the one on the balcony of Sen's Fortress that you wouldn't find on your own unless you thought to look over the edge. You might complain about the ones hidden behind secret walls, but that's where the soapstone message help provide info. With the one atop Sen's Fortress, you could leave a 'Bonfire Ahead' note, but that could easily be dismissed as a troll because of the giant tossing the explosives at you.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006

Sen's Fortress? More like Sen's Funhouse.

We got.a friend of ours to play it for the first time a few years ago. He misread "Sen" as "Sek" so we lost our poo poo when he complained about how hard Sek's Fortress was.

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

Max Wilco posted:

I haven't picked up the Dark Souls 1 remaster yet, and I still don't know if I should. I beat the Prepare to Die version (which is no longer available on Steam), but I never did the DLC or Painted World. The only thing that I'm interested in in regards to the remaster is the improved online.

I dunno, having two of the best areas in the game waiting for you to play them is fairly good incentive, at least for me.

Max Wilco posted:

As far as bonfire placement goes, there's the one on the balcony of Sen's Fortress that you wouldn't find on your own unless you thought to look over the edge. You might complain about the ones hidden behind secret walls, but that's where the soapstone message help provide info. With the one atop Sen's Fortress, you could leave a 'Bonfire Ahead' note, but that could easily be dismissed as a troll because of the giant tossing the explosives at you.

Hidden bonfires and walls that you need notes to find was easily one of the best parts of Dark Souls and a feeling none of the other games could recapture, if only because by the time you're three games into a series you don't really need the help anymore.

I would dive so hard into the remaster to enjoy the revived online base if I wasn't so loving broke right now. :(

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

The big pile of taurus demons on the lava plain is especially pointless cause they don't respawn, so there's no reason to engage more than one or two at a time unless you've managed to never pick up a single bow. Having that many there is just time wasting.

Max Wilco
Jan 23, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

SatansBestBuddy posted:

I dunno, having two of the best areas in the game waiting for you to play them is fairly good incentive, at least for me.

Yeah, but I can just reinstall the Prepare to Die version, along with DSFix. Obviously, I don't get the improved multiplayer, but DSCM helps a bit. However, according to Steam, right now there's only around 900 people playing Prepare to Die, whereas there's at least 7,000 people playing Remastered. It's just a matter of deciding whether I want to pay $20 to get an update.

As to playing through Painted World and the DLC, I'd have to run through the first half of the game again, as I was at the start of NG+ when I stopped playing DS1. Plus, I've still got DS2:SotFS to finish, along with its oodles of DLC areas (though I'm skeptical about doing those, since I know they get really bad with some of the bosses), and I also have DS3 as well.


SatansBestBuddy posted:

Hidden bonfires and walls that you need notes to find was easily one of the best parts of Dark Souls and a feeling none of the other games could recapture, if only because by the time you're three games into a series you don't really need the help anymore.

I would dive so hard into the remaster to enjoy the revived online base if I wasn't so loving broke right now. :(

In a way, it sort of reminds me of something from the NES era; not in regards to difficulty or how the game plays, but in that the note system or just word-of-mouth manages to replicate that culture of people sharing experiences and discoveries as they make their way through the game. If you did try to play through without a guide, chances are you'd probably miss a lot of stuff your first time through, like how you can return to the asylum, or some of the covenants (save for the Gravelord Servants, since you have to be on NG+ to join.)

EDIT: I just found out that the Remaster leaves in the door floating in the sky above the Duke's Archives. :v:

Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Jun 5, 2018

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

Max Wilco posted:

If you did try to play through without a guide, chances are you'd probably miss a lot of stuff your first time through, like how you can return to the asylum, or some of the covenants (save for the Gravelord Servants, since you have to be on NG+ to join.)

In Joseph Anderson's DS1 videos, he mentions that he didn't even know how to access the DLC until his second playthrough because he intentionally played the first time totally blind.

Then he went online and saw people talking about all these extra bosses he missed :v:

FoldableHuman
Mar 26, 2017

Yardbomb posted:

No, they should've made the walkway leading to them even longer. :getin:

That's fine, I'm still going to invis right up to them and push them off.

I actually don't have sour opinions of Izilith, and think the Bed of Chaos is faaaaaaar from the worst boss in the series, in no small part because I'm not a godless barbarian, nor do I eat off the floor, and I join the Chaos Servants every time like a civilized monster.

I'm really tempted to make some sort of "git gud" joke here about choosing your factions properly and people who hate the area are just playing wrong, but even ironic "git gud" comments are exhausting and I can't find the punchline.

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

achillesforever6 posted:

Wait I thought Age of Mythology is regarded pretty well in the RTS community both contemporary and today :psyduck:

That wasn't meant as a "no one likes this" but just a a comment on how some fans of AoE2 didn't like how it diverged on what some of them considered core points to their enjoyment.
Though I think part of the reason it's liked is that it wasn't a mainline entry, that really gives some leeway when it comes to changes since it doesn't mean it's the new core of the series. I remember C&C Generals getting some complaints about how it changed too much but at least it was just a side entry.

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

Dabir posted:

The big pile of taurus demons on the lava plain is especially pointless cause they don't respawn, so there's no reason to engage more than one or two at a time unless you've managed to never pick up a single bow. Having that many there is just time wasting.

It's not like they aren't there for a gameplay reason, they're guarding a special blacksmith ember in the lava there. It's lazy but it's not lazy with no purpose.

Max Wilco
Jan 23, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

WampaLord posted:

In Joseph Anderson's DS1 videos, he mentions that he didn't even know how to access the DLC until his second playthrough because he intentionally played the first time totally blind.

Then he went online and saw people talking about all these extra bosses he missed :v:

I knew how to get to the DLC (the first crystal golem in the Duke's Archive has one of the items), but I think it was mixture of not wanting to deal with the hydra, and that I just wanted to go and fight Gwyn.

It is interesting, though, how much there is in Soulsborne that you can easily miss. When I was going for platinum in Bloodborne, it occurred to me that you only have to fight about six bosses, and you can ignore a good number of areas.


FoldableHuman posted:

That's fine, I'm still going to invis right up to them and push them off.

I actually don't have sour opinions of Izilith, and think the Bed of Chaos is faaaaaaar from the worst boss in the series, in no small part because I'm not a godless barbarian, nor do I eat off the floor, and I join the Chaos Servants every time like a civilized monster.

I'm really tempted to make some sort of "git gud" joke here about choosing your factions properly and people who hate the area are just playing wrong, but even ironic "git gud" comments are exhausting and I can't find the punchline.

Bed of Chaos isn't really that hard, and taking out the two side roots can be done safely if you hide in the side of the arena and hit them with arrows. I actually lucked out and managed to take out both sides at melee range on the first attempt, but the majority of my deaths came from trying to get down into the hole to get to the center of the tree. I don't know if it's the collision or what, but if the BoC didn't sweep me off or torch me with Firestorm (which it also can hit you with sliding down the ramp), I'd try to jump onto that root or ledge down below, only to slide off and die. It's the issue that it's a boss that involves a bit of platforming in a game where jumping is wonky and imprecise.

What do you think is the worst boss? Royal Rat Authority? Micolash? The Maneaters?

Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jun 5, 2018

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Bed of Chaos at least had an idea as roughly executed as it was, imo one of the worst is probably the 4Kids, it's just a DPS race in the void.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

CYBEReris posted:

It's not like they aren't there for a gameplay reason, they're guarding a special blacksmith ember in the lava there. It's lazy but it's not lazy with no purpose.

There's no point having so many there though. Two that always aggro at the same time and do respawn would convey that something is being guarded just as well, be functionally identical to the vast majority of players, and look less like they're taking the piss.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Yardbomb posted:

Bed of Chaos at least had an idea as roughly executed as it was, imo one of the worst is probably the 4Kids, it's just a DPS race in the void.

Yeah, I've never found them to be anything other than a let down.

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

Dabir posted:

There's no point having so many there though. Two that always aggro at the same time and do respawn would convey that something is being guarded just as well, be functionally identical to the vast majority of players, and look less like they're taking the piss.

I bet during testing they tried something like this and were like "everyone's skipping this drat thing, how do we draw attention to it?" and someone said "just paste more taurus demons along the path like they're loving breadcrumbs"

Zedd
Jul 6, 2009

I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?



Max Wilco posted:

As to playing through Painted World and the DLC, I'd have to run through the first half of the game again, as I was at the start of NG+ when I stopped playing DS1. Plus, I've still got DS2:SotFS to finish, along with its oodles of DLC areas (though I'm skeptical about doing those, since I know they get really bad with some of the bosses), and I also have DS3 as well.
DS2's DLC is mostly great, just skip the co-op areas.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

CYBEReris posted:

I bet during testing they tried something like this and were like "everyone's skipping this drat thing, how do we draw attention to it?" and someone said "just paste more taurus demons along the path like they're loving breadcrumbs"

the issue is this implies testing of the demon ruins/lost izalith

Trojan Kaiju
Feb 13, 2012


Max Wilco posted:



What do you think is the worst boss? Royal Rat Authority? Micolash? The Maneaters?

Micolash is one of the best nonstandard bosses in the series.

The worst boss, at least in Bloodborne, is *standard enemy but with a lot of health*, found exclusively in the chalice. As much as I don't like the Defiled bosses, they aren't quite that lazy.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

Chalice dungeons also had some of the better bosses too. I put a lot of time in those dungeons. They weren't that good, but I liked the combat enough that the challenge of them was fine by me, even if the design of the dungeons themselves were just a bunch of prefab parts thrown together. The tiles with the luminescent fungus/flowers did look really neat though!

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

you know what remaster or at least re-release i am hoping for next. the resistance trilogy. those were pretty solid/good as whole. they were made by insomniac and had a pretty decent following.

Personally, I’m still waiting for a Xenosaga HD collection.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

full remake of Maken Shao

FoldableHuman
Mar 26, 2017

Max Wilco posted:

What do you think is the worst boss? Royal Rat Authority? Micolash? The Maneaters?

I usually say Micolash is the worst simply because his random pathing can lead him around in circles for a *very * long time, meaning you can pretty easily spend several minutes chasing him around only to misstep once in the final room and die instantly, which turns an otherwise really interesting fight into an absolute slog, and I consider frustrating execution of an otherwise good idea to be worse than a boss that's just 'meh'.

The chalice specific bosses are dramatically under-tested and over-tuned, but even Watchdog of the Old Lords isn't that bad if you're fighting the stock version in Pthumeru instead of the defiled version. Similarly I would exclude a lot of DS2 "bosses" simply because DS2 changed the interface language for mini-bosses and special non-respawning enemies, so if we include Creeping Magus or Royal Rat Vanguard we'd best include the Great Felines and Undead Dragons.

Old Monk is probably my most hated, because I despise PvP and also the fight is glitchy AF even offline.

But, really, the worst is Adjudicator for being so 'meh' that people forget it exists.

FoldableHuman fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jun 5, 2018

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

FoldableHuman posted:

But, really, the worst is Adjudicator for being so 'meh' that people forget it exists.

uh fuckin excuse yourself, Adjudicator has one of the most memorable designs and theme songs in the series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBYLtyaGXP8

the worst boss in the series is the most obvious answer

its Pinwheel, who ironically might have the best theme song in all of Dark Souls 1 but you're gonna hear it for about 10 seconds before you've already ended the fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDo_HW-uH2I

Alaois fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jun 5, 2018

DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015

But Pinwheel is fun to fight even though he's a pud.

Royal Rat Authority was all the frustration of Sif with none of the charm.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

Pinwheel is just the Fool's Idol with none of the atmosphere or the somewhat clever gimmick.

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FoldableHuman
Mar 26, 2017

Alaois posted:


its Pinwheel, who ironically might have the best theme song in all of Dark Souls 1 but you're gonna hear it for about 10 seconds before you've already ended the fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDo_HW-uH2I

Oooh, solid pick since Pinwheel really ties into multiple problems.

• Blocked by mid level skeletons that discourage exploration of the grave yard, leading many players to avoid the area entirely until they have the Lordvessel
• entrance to the tomb is a narrow path so steep that many players never find it because it just looks like the edge of the cliff until you're right to the edge, and there's nowhere else that gives you a vantage calling attention to it
• as a consequence most players are 20+ levels beyond Pinwheel by the time they get there
• even at-level is still a pretty easy fight
• even knowing all of the above there's still no compelling reason to face Pinwheel until you're headed to Nito unless you somehow know so much about the game that you're aware Pinwheel drops the Rite of Kindling, but are also otherwise stuck in such a way that kindling a bonfire up to 15 will get you un-stuck (which is itself contingent on having a giant pile of Humanity, but also being stuck?)

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