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So JJ S2 sounds like a great candidate for 'background noise' while I'm doing something else. Perfect. Saint Freak posted:... that one episode RZA did. That RZA episode was legitimately good. The lone redeeming thing about that season, or that entire show to this point.
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Jun 5, 2018 16:31
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JJ S2 is the best thing Marvel Netflix has done and it's not an especially close margin.
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Jun 5, 2018 16:44
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docbeard posted:JJ S2 is the best thing Marvel Netflix has done and it's not an especially close margin. I couldn't even finish Season 2 - it didn't grab me at all like the first season. Of what I saw, Trish's arc was horrendous and Jessica Jones is a hard character to sympathize with because of how big of an rear end in a top hat she is.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:00
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docbeard posted:JJ S2 is the best thing Marvel Netflix has done and it's not an especially close margin. The gently caress did you watch?
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Jun 5, 2018 17:05
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docbeard posted:JJ S2 is the best thing Marvel Netflix has done and it's not an especially close margin. I'd argue that it's definitely the most interesting thing. But I've not seen many commentators -- certainly not here -- who'd argue that it's the best. Could you say more?
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Jun 5, 2018 17:07
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Dexo posted:Best part is how Colleen could have clearly handled everything herself, but was just seeing how Misty did on her own. Didn't step in until Misty was clearly overwhelmed. Did you watch the same scene I did? Misty still had that poo poo under control, Colleen was just bored and it was a good opening to join in.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:13
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Open Source Idiom posted:I'd argue that it's definitely the most interesting thing. But I've not seen many commentators -- certainly not here -- who'd argue that it's the best. Could you say more? I was possibly trolling the teensiest little bit, but it genuinely is my favorite thing they've put out. I can totally see why others might not like it, though, especially if they were looking for something closer to a traditional superhero story. It kind of hit the same beats for me that The Long Goodbye did (and, again, I suspect that it's not most peoples' favorite Chandler novel but it is mine). Jessica works so well as a fuckup who's trying to do the right thing whose biggest enemy is herself, and that's the kind of protagonist that really interests me, because that's the kind of protagonist who feels most real to me. The tension between who everyone thinks she should be and who she is, and between who she thinks she should be and who she is, it just really works. Most of the conflicts are internal, or at least have their origins there; the reasons that Jessica, her landlord/love interest, Trish, her mom, Trish's mom, etc. clash with each other are entirely because their own inner demons splash out all over everything good they're trying to accomplish (Sometimes almost literally, specifically in the episode with the Kilgrave hallucination.) And sure, I love a good THIS PERSON IS BAD AND I MUST PUNCH THEM story as much as the next goon, but I also love this poo poo, and it's not something you often see in genre fiction. I'm probably not articulating this very well. But yeah. There it is.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:21
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I'd also argue that same thing is the one thing the back half of DD S2 did right; that the real story is, or should have been, how Matt cannot simultaneously do crazy ninja bullshit and do lawyer stuff. But it was undermined by the way that the crazy ninja bullshit was probably the least compelling that crazy ninja bullshit has ever been (at least until Defenders took a dive straight into the toilet).
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Jun 5, 2018 17:24
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I don't think JJS2 was as good as S1 but it's my second favorite Netflix Marvel show behind Daredevil. I think people expect the seasons to be bingable but Netflix seems to be moving away from that model with half season releases. I think that the season structures are designed for TV first and foremost - they probably make a killing with international licensing deals on these.
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Jun 5, 2018 18:24
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They do not. Netflix doesn't license any of their true originals to anyone else.
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Jun 5, 2018 18:55
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As an international, yeah, this poo poo doesn't get sold for TV, it just gets dumped into Netflix.
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Jun 5, 2018 21:05
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Honestly I still think Daredevil is the best Marvel show and I don't even particularly like Daredevil that much. All the Marvel shows miss the point at various junctures.
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Jun 5, 2018 22:33
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The Punisher is probably the best one to me because if you stripped all the Marvel trappings and the Punisher name and logo it would still be extremely watchable TV. Daredevil Season 1 passes that test, Daredevil Season 2 fails it abysmally.
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Jun 5, 2018 22:55
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Can't believe how much they wasted the Whizzer on JJ2. 
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Jun 5, 2018 22:56
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JJS2 doubled and tripled down on terrible characters you just don't want to be around or watch. I get that they're all supposed to be hosed up in various ways and them dealing with their inner demons and each other is a big part of story but there's just way too much to dislike in the cast and nothing interesting enough to overcome it.
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Jun 5, 2018 23:07
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docbeard posted:JJ S2 is the best thing Marvel Netflix has done and it's not an especially close margin. I don't understand this forum sometimes. 
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Jun 6, 2018 07:20
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docbeard posted:I was possibly trolling the teensiest little bit, but it genuinely is my favorite thing they've put out. I can totally see why others might not like it, though, especially if they were looking for something closer to a traditional superhero story. Nah, I think I follow you. I think my favourite scene -- or at least the second season's most memorable scene -- stems from exactly this. The sequence where Patsy is "dying" in hospital while her mother is tying to comfort her is so loving disturbing. Not because you think Patsy is going to die; she's obviously not. I found it fundamentally upsetting because Patsy's mother can't seem to understand that everything she's telling her daughter, in what she thinks are her daughter's last moments on Earth, are the last loving things she'd want to hear. She loves her daughter, and desperately wants to comfort her, but she's probably only driving her further into sickness. Literally all she needed to say was that she loved her, and Patsy's too weak to fight through the bond the two share and deflect her mother's influence. It's remarkably bleak and upsetting, and it's basically the final conflict between Jessica and Alisa expressed in a single scene. Frankly, it's hard to imagine any other Marvel show that'd be capable of pulling off something similar. None of them are that interior, or place their hero's internal stakes on a similar level as their external ones. (Except Daredevil 2, like you said, though that ends up falling into the typical cliches of kill / not kill, and ends up, I'd argue, less interesting. It's a solved issue in a way I don't think these conundrums are.)
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Jun 6, 2018 07:37
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My issue is that the first season did touch on a lot of those aspects already and in a way more focused way. JJS1 is basically someone riddled with guilt trying to solve a massive problem without compromising their morals while not really being all that well-equipped for it. S2 took WAY too many shortcuts with her mother-daughter relationship and in general could never decide WHAT it wanted to focus on. Was it Jessica trying to live a regular life? Was it her straining relationship with Patsy and the burden of superpowers? Was it trying to protect her murderous mother? Maybe she was the monsters after all, John. They tried to tie all of that up but in my opinion it ended up a mess and way too superficial for me to give a gently caress. "OH NO I KILLED A MAN NOW GHOST RAPIST IS BEHIND ME" nevermind that happened for like two episodes at the tail-end.
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Jun 6, 2018 07:47
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I actually think JJ2 might be the first Netflix Marvel series that I don't watch. I really liked David Tennant in S1, but not much else. The season also dragged on a bit too long for me. I liked Luke Cage, Iron Fist and the Defenders less-and-less too. I think it just eventually reached a point where I am burnt out on the genre and all the good will that was built up from Daredevil is gone. Nothing against JJ; if this had been Luke Cage S2 I would have probably felt the same way. Even on the MCU side, I don't think I will see Ant Man & The Wasp in theaters.
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Jun 6, 2018 15:04
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Slowpoke! posted:I actually think JJ2 might be the first Netflix Marvel series that I don't watch. I really liked David Tennant in S1, but not much else. The season also dragged on a bit too long for me. I liked Luke Cage, Iron Fist and the Defenders less-and-less too. I think it just eventually reached a point where I am burnt out on the genre and all the good will that was built up from Daredevil is gone. Nothing against JJ; if this had been Luke Cage S2 I would have probably felt the same way. That's fair, I think. My girlfriend's completely burned out on the MCU right now and while I'm not I totally get it.
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Jun 6, 2018 15:30
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docbeard posted:That's fair, I think. My girlfriend's completely burned out on the MCU right now and while I'm not I totally get it. Yeah, I think I'm just kind of burned out on superhero comic stuff at the moment. I didn't even bother to go so Black Panther, Thor 3, or Infinity War because  . I think part of what made Punisher and JJs2 stand out for me was that they were decidedly un-heroic tales which is at least somewhat refreshing. If they axed the superpower stuff, I would legit watch a pulpy noir show done in the same vein as Jessica Jones.But I also loving love Terriers too and constantly lament that they only made one season of it, so basically just give me more shows about emotionally broken private investigators.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:46
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DeathSandwich posted:But I also loving love Terriers too and constantly lament that they only made one season of it, so basically just give me more shows about emotionally broken private investigators. ...and now I have to watch Terriers again. drat, what a good show that was.
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Jun 6, 2018 20:45
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Have another Luke Cage trailer.
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Jun 12, 2018 15:18
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I'm rewatching Iron Fist for some reason and I feel like I at least somewhat enjoy pretty much everything except Danny. The Meachums are great, Colleen is good, the backstory with Madam Gao and the Rands is interesting, Davos is kind of cool, Claire is... there. It's just that Danny is a black hole of charisma and his fight scenes are bad. It really struck me when he's at the compound with Bakuto and they're both doing the form poses (or whatever they're called), and Danny just seems completely graceless compared to Bakuto.
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Jun 13, 2018 15:23
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okay now I'm hype dear netflix plz cancel iron fist and use that money for a daughters of the dragon show docbeard posted:JJ S2 is the best thing Marvel Netflix has done and it's not an especially close margin. lol?
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Jun 14, 2018 12:06
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I feel like the main shows can handle all those arcs without making a ton of spinoffs or event miniseries. They already have syndication deals in place and it's easier to bring on a character from another show for half a season than to start a new show every time they want to tell a different story. It worked really well with Luke in JJ S1 and Punisher in DD S2, if this season of Luke Cage ends up including their take on Heroes For Hire and next season of Iron Fist does Daughter's of the Dragon that would work out pretty nicely.
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Jun 14, 2018 12:31
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So Luke Cage season 2 is a bit of a let down. I actually generally enjoyed season 1, even though I agree that the second half was worse. I know it's like a broken record at this point, but there's no reason for this season to be 13 episodes. There are at least two or three episodes that are slowed down, lay-low episodes after something interesting happening at the end of a previous episode. More spoiler-y thoughts: -Rosario Dawson is kind of tossed aside unceremoniously. It's an issue that plagues several subplots, including Reg E. Cathey, but I assume that was out of necessity. -Mustafa Shakir is very good as Bushmaster and I wish his role wasn't as repetitive as it was. They threaten to do something interesting with a team-up later on, but it doesn't go much further. -Theo Rossi is still very good as Shades and sells a lot of ridiculous dialogue -Same with Alfre Woodard as the main antagonist. She's much better than the material she's given. -The cop stuff in the Netflix MCU shows is still pretty dire. None of it rings true or is stylized well, if that's what they're going for. -Iron Fist continues to only be good when he's a sidekick to Luke Cage.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:23
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Disappointing. I really didn't like pretty much anything about the first season outside of Cottonmouth and Misty Knight (it should've been a fuckin Misty Knight show), so maybe this will be the first Marvel season I skip outright.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:55
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Then it sounds like it fits right in with rest of the shows. Even the ones I liked shouldn't have been more than 10 episodes.
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Jun 15, 2018 10:22
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I didn't mind it so much in Punisher. Mostly it just meant stretching some storylines (like Micro's family) out a big longer, but it was ultimately worth it, I think.
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Jun 15, 2018 10:33
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Punisher and DD S1 do not suffer from the pacing issues of the other 5 shows because they maintain a consistent rhythm through their seasons instead of building up to some big half-season plot point.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:26
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Daredevil's big season climax is done terribly though so it didn't help.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:31
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Bust Rodd posted:Punisher and DD S1 do not suffer from the pacing issues of the other 5 shows because they maintain a consistent rhythm through their seasons instead of building up to some big half-season plot point. DD S1 spends literally half the season following Kingpin around, who is not nearly as interesting as the writers think he is Punisher could easily cut all the useless FBI agents solving the world's most obvious mystery poo poo Other than that they're OK but like literally every other Marvel TV show they're paced bizarrely (the best fight in DD happens in like the first episode), tend to be letdowns on things you would come to expect (all the fights in Punisher suck), and they're just too loving long. For that matter I don't personally care about Matt's stupid whiny friends or the whole "Punisher accidentally almost fucks Micro's wife" subplot, which get waaaay far away from both shows' main themes and strong points.
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Jun 15, 2018 17:35
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That being said in may not be an episode length issue, since Defenders is eight episodes and is apparently the worst of them all
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Jun 15, 2018 18:05
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There's some good stuff going on in the Defenders, but it's entirely the characters pinballing off of each other, the actual plot is extremely blah.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:13
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dont even fink about it posted:That being said in may not be an episode length issue, since Defenders is eight episodes and is apparently the worst of them all Defenders is better than Iron Fist purely based on it having less Danny Rand screentime
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Jun 15, 2018 18:21
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dont even fink about it posted:That being said in may not be an episode length issue, since Defenders is eight episodes and is apparently the worst of them all Defenders is like, 100 percent Hand stuff, and hand stuff is always disappointing.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:50
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Defenders is like, 100 percent Hand stuff, and hand stuff is always disappointing. EXCEPT for Madam Gao. If it was just Madam Gao and random henchmen it would be tolerable/more fun, but all the other stuff was dumb as poo poo.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:01
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Defenders is like, 100 percent Hand stuff, and hand stuff is always disappointing. 
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Jun 15, 2018 19:13
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As I said before, skip every scene without a defender in it and Defenders is pretty good. The endless scenes of hand members talking to each other evilly are the worst.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:21
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