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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Oh god I had five meetings today Were... were they all productive?
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Jun 6, 2018 02:19
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necrobobsledder posted:Team lead - where you're not eligible for director or executive positions and be handed 2x the workload and responsibilities of seniors but maybe 15% more pay. Bitter? Noooo waaayyyy no sir, not mee.... Ho ho -- I have numerous direct reports, have to coordinate a remote team on another continent, and travel to partners and vendors offsite. "But technically I'm an IC" Yeeeaaah
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Jun 6, 2018 02:30
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Oh god I had five meetings today Oh dear my friend, it only gets worse. I have maybe 2-3 hours of my day not in meetings, which I often spend preparing for meetings 
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Jun 6, 2018 02:37
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Pollyanna posted:I myself fear that I will never grow out of being a junior developer. I thought the same for a long time. Then finally took a job with more responsibility that forced me to learn speaking of which: necrobobsledder posted:Team lead - where you're not eligible for director or executive positions and be handed 2x the workload and responsibilities of seniors but maybe 15% more pay. Bitter? Noooo waaayyyy no sir, not mee.... I took a ~20k raise (52k to 72k) and moved from "Web Developer" to "Lead Web Technologist" (that was the title no joke). Basically it was a DevOps role heavy on the programming. I had my hands in everything from SysAdmin to coding to taking care of odds and ends. I loved it at first. It turned into a team lead role about 6 months into the job - now more focused on development. But I still had all the other responsibility too. This is what broke me in the end 80-90 hours to keep up and 25 hours of meetings a week. It was just too much responsibility at the time. I still loved it until the hours really crept up. Could I deal with it now? Yes (sans meetings or now I have enough clout to be more frugal with my time), but back then I didn't know how to deal with the political bureaucracy especially the insane politics of the organization for which I worked.
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Jun 6, 2018 02:44
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At my last job I was an IC and usually had about 10 hours per week not in meetings. Our project was forever behind for some reason
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Jun 6, 2018 02:44
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Jose Valasquez posted:At my last job I was an IC and usually had about 10 hours per week not in meetings. Our project was forever behind for some reason  and we usually concluded "well, these are questions for the PM" with the worst aspect being that we rarely had a stable one.Conversely, at my current job, we don't have enough meetings. I sorta like speccing work entirely myself, but I realize it is not at all productive because I have to iterate far too much and also, I don't know this domain like a good PM should! I've done three stories now that I specced entirely myself (over a few months) only for VP (not my TL, mind you) to say "eh I was thinking more like this, do it over". In other news, passed my first tech screen though the feedback was "a little bit shaky on modeling OOP" which, sure that makes sense my job over the past 18 months has been writing single class Spark jobs, data plumbing scripts, and plugins for those things.
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Jun 6, 2018 03:37
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JawnV6 posted:ahahaha Four 1:1s and one "we need to make a decision on this specific issue" meeting, which only involved three people. Everyone had plenty to say at the 1:1s and I'm getting some good data to take to my 1:1 with my skip level. And the decision-making meeting used half the time that was budgeted for it. So on the whole, yeah, I'd say they were pretty useful. Jose Valasquez posted:At my last job I was an IC and usually had about 10 hours per week not in meetings. Our project was forever behind for some reason That loving sucks. My team's baseline for meetings is one weekly half-hour team meeting, and the 1:1s. Individuals may have more meetings for specific purposes (our PM is booked pretty solid, and I have regular "review the bug list" meetings with them), but otherwise we have a virtual daily standup in a chat room and that's it. Stuff like allhands, we just remote into or wait for the recording to be published and watch it at 150+% speed. It is official company policy that if you do not feel like you're getting anything out of a meeting, you should just stand up and walk out. Back in the mythic pre-TL days, I would barely notice no-meetings week because it literally only gave me an extra hour. Speaking of meetings, though, any opinions on the best time to have them, assuming they must be held? Most of ours are clustered around lunchtime on the theory that your workday is already disrupted at that point.
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Jun 6, 2018 05:43
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My least favorite non-political, non-bigoted phrase in the entire world is 110%. I have never seen it users in anything other than a condescending context.geeves posted:I thought the same for a long time. Then finally took a job with more responsibility that forced me to learn speaking of which: I dont want to pull 80~90 hour workweeks. Can I still become a valued contributor?
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Jun 6, 2018 14:12
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The diminishing returns on value for me start around 35 hours of working a week. Anything after that is so unproductive it's just a lot better for me to focus on recharging and not forcing my brain to try to work.
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Jun 6, 2018 14:33
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Pollyanna posted:I dont want to pull 80~90 hour workweeks. Can I still become a valued contributor? I do 40-hour weeks. My team's been pushing hard for the better part of a year and nobody's gotten even remotely pissy at me about it. It's possible to find places where you aren't expected to pull ridiculous hours. And it's not like ridiculous hours even help. You get one, maybe two weeks' worth of improved productivity from working longer hours, before you run out of energy and need to take a vacation to recharge.
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Jun 6, 2018 14:34
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If someone expects you to work for free on a regular basis by staying later than your normal hours, tell them to do one.
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Jun 6, 2018 15:22
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80 hours workweek? Sounds like I am ~quadrupling my pay from overtime 
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Jun 6, 2018 15:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:You get one, maybe two weeks' worth of improved productivity from working longer hours, before you run out of energy and need to take a vacation to recharge. I'm going on 5 years of work without a break longer than 10 days (and only 1 of those) and I'm questioning how anyone does this for over 30 years. Even 2 weeks doesn't feel like it would be enough to get me the proper level of recharge and reset I need. My body just constantly feels burnt out, and I'm a fairly healthy person from a diet and sleep standpoint. I've been at the 40 hours/week, never less, rarely more than 50, but it still just feels like a real detriment to my overall brain capacity and levels of effectiveness. Do other people manage because their jobs are less brain-intensive than writing code for 40 hours a week sitting at a desk?
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Jun 6, 2018 16:16
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I'm going on 5 years of work without a break longer than 10 days (and only 1 of those) and I'm questioning how anyone does this for over 30 years. Even 2 weeks doesn't feel like it would be enough to get me the proper level of recharge and reset I need. My body just constantly feels burnt out, and I'm a fairly healthy person from a diet and sleep standpoint. I've been at the 40 hours/week, never less, rarely more than 50, but it still just feels like a real detriment to my overall brain capacity and levels of effectiveness. To some extent I think the secret answer here is "nobody ever feels like they're at the top of their game, except for a day or two after vacation or if they're on drugs". The important thing is to keep an eye on your trend lines, not on your absolute state of mind/body. If you're getting more and more worn out, then you need to change something because eventually you'll be ground down to nothing. If you're stable, though, then odds are that level of stability is your baseline, where you'd eventually regress to after a break no matter how big the break. Which isn't to say that breaks aren't really useful, including multi-month leaves of absence if your employer allows for such things. They aren't going to fix problems, but they give you a chance to heal from the damage dealt by those problems.
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Jun 6, 2018 16:40
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I just had a 2 week holiday after 3 or 4 years of nothing more than a day off at a time. Im currently floating in a pool of chill. I do not know how long it will last. I dont personally think the gold standard work week provides nearly enough time off for people. Breaking the back of that is pretty high up on my priority list, though that would rule out any kind of career progression.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:06
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Yeah I mean without getting super E/N I have a severely debilitating anxiety disorder that always lingers and can get way worse than a baseline level. Just taking a month or two off every few years would be glorious because it seems to be a cyclic thing that I manage well for a while before burning out (it's happened a few times in adulthood) and even treating it properly over long periods it manages to lash out. I'm responsible enough with my money that I'd gladly just quit a bad job and take 2 months off because I felt like it and it's well worth it for me as a person, I just don't want to explain the potential gap on a resume or cripple myself in future searches for making career progress.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:15
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Jaded Burnout posted:I dont personally think the gold standard work week provides nearly enough time off for people. Breaking the back of that is pretty high up on my priority list, though that would rule out any kind of career progression. Getting two regular WFH days has been pretty loving spectacular for me. Next time I go on a job hunt I'm going to require 50% or more WFH, if I can't land something that 100% remote.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:23
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I'm going on 5 years of work without a break longer than 10 days (and only 1 of those) and I'm questioning how anyone does this for over 30 years. Even 2 weeks doesn't feel like it would be enough to get me the proper level of recharge and reset I need. My body just constantly feels burnt out, and I'm a fairly healthy person from a diet and sleep standpoint. I've been at the 40 hours/week, never less, rarely more than 50, but it still just feels like a real detriment to my overall brain capacity and levels of effectiveness. Do you only get two weeks of vacation? If so make more vacation a priority in your next job search. It's possible to find 15 days, 20 is still rare though companies may increase to it with tenure, plus 10ish holidays.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:24
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asur posted:Do you only get two weeks of vacation? If so make more vacation a priority in your next job search. It's possible to find 15 days, 20 is still rare though companies may increase to it with tenure, plus 10ish holidays. Yeah I was at 2 weeks until we switched to "unlimited" recently. I've taken a few days since that but it's just been a non-stop poo poo-show lately so I don't exactly want to overstep any boundaries.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:27
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asur posted:Do you only get two weeks of vacation? If so make more vacation a priority in your next job search. It's possible to find 15 days, 20 is still rare though companies may increase to it with tenure, plus 10ish holidays. Being European and reading this thread is sometimes surreal. 20 days is the local legal minimum and the average job offers more. I have 40 for this year (and I have no idea when to use them all )
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Jun 6, 2018 18:06
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The Fool posted:Getting two regular WFH days has been pretty loving spectacular for me. Next time I go on a job hunt I'm going to require 50% or more WFH, if I can't land something that 100% remote. Same, I was 100% remote previously, now I'm 2 days a week in the office. But it does limit things. And that goes double for if you push that to 2 extra days off per week.
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Jun 6, 2018 18:22
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Xarn posted:Being European and reading this thread is sometimes surreal.
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Jun 6, 2018 18:33
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comedyblissoption posted:americans work 20% more hours than europeans lol How's our productivity per hour worked? Now how is it when you subtract off the costs of extra healthcare due to the impact that all that overwork has on our health and happiness?
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Jun 6, 2018 18:46
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:How's our productivity per hour worked? Don't even try to go there with them americans. At the end of the day, most of them see the system for what it is: flawed, unfair and heavily skewed towards the "haves". But even then, and even on these very forums, and even with otherwise seemingly smart people, they come and say: "yes we pay through the nose for said healthcare, but our healthcare is better than yours". Which, maybe is true for places like Zimbabwe, but certainly is not true for developed countries (Canada, Australia, western Europe, etc.). And when you point to statistics that show poorer overall results in US vs other countries, they come with anecdotes of how the problem that they had was solved (expensive, but done) in US while in other parts it wouldn't have been possible. So, don't go there.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:13
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I will! Ask me about socialism 
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Jun 6, 2018 19:39
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Pollyanna posted:I will! Ask me about socialism We can discuss better pay and saner working hours for the common employee without bringing up socialism and tilting the thread  I don't think anyone here would argue that American working hours are too long. Largely because (most) people here seem levelheaded and understand the concepts of burnout and diminishing returns.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:43
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Trotsky was right
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Jun 6, 2018 20:12
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Volguus posted:So, don't go there. You went there.
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Jun 6, 2018 20:54
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Portland Sucks posted:You went there. Oops.
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Jun 6, 2018 21:14
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Finally  ing from a company that promoted me without a pay raise, has had me putting a hundred miles on my car daily with clients in the next city over, and hasn't really been utilizing me effectively.Resignation Letter Excerpt posted:I have received an offer from a research company in CITY, and after careful consideration, I realize that it would be a disservice to my career to turn down this exciting opportunity. The factors that led to this decision are that my new employer is much closer to home than my present client, the offered compensation package is highly competitive to known regional rates for a Senior Developer and significantly better than my present compensation, and my future duties are more in line with my career goals and interests. Is that paragraph a little too on the nose? Would it be better lose the factors section and leave it for the exit interview? Resigning always feels a bit weird to me, like I'm about to commit some grand act of betrayal. I realize it's not rational, but I can never seem to shake that weird feeling of guilt and exposure.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:16
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Everything Ive seen says to be as tight lipped about your reasons for resigning as possible.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:20
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Oh my god give them as little information as possible. None of that is necessary. "It's been a blast, I'm out on X date, peace" You don't want to stay. No amount of $ is going to change your decision based on other factors, mentioning compensation differences is like opening that door up for no reason.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:20
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Don't bother with an explanation, that's a personal thing for coworkers you feel like talking to. The business part is your end date, which is all they need to know.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:21
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Nthing the above, never write anything in a resignation letter beyond, "My last day is x, thanks for the opportunity, bye."
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Jun 6, 2018 22:37
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And don't accept a promotion if there's nothing in it for you. You should have stopped the process right as soon as you found that fact out and demanded more money.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:51
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baquerd posted:And don't accept a promotion if there's nothing in it for you. You should have stopped the process right as soon as you found that fact out and demanded more money. I would have, had I known I was promoted. I never actually had any feedback, and my responsibilities never changed. By the time I noticed my title had changed in the system, I had already conducted several interviews to gtfo because of the static I got over trying to get assigned to a more compelling project in my city. I wasn't keen on wasting any further energy on it, since I was about to leave.
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Jun 7, 2018 00:02
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JawnV6 posted:Oh my god give them as little information as possible. None of that is necessary. "It's been a blast, I'm out on X date, peace" Why give them as little information as possible?
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Jun 7, 2018 00:11
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fashionly snort posted:Why give them any information at all?
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Jun 7, 2018 00:12
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fashionly snort posted:Why give them as little information as possible? It won't do you any good to give them more information
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Jun 7, 2018 00:41
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I'm going on 5 years of work without a break longer than 10 days (and only 1 of those) and I'm questioning how anyone does this for over 30 years. Even 2 weeks doesn't feel like it would be enough to get me the proper level of recharge and reset I need. My body just constantly feels burnt out, and I'm a fairly healthy person from a diet and sleep standpoint. I've been at the 40 hours/week, never less, rarely more than 50, but it still just feels like a real detriment to my overall brain capacity and levels of effectiveness. You have to do stuff outside of work that helps you to manage the stress.
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Jun 7, 2018 00:44
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