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Kibayasu posted:If they think NV’s character has amnesia they didn’t understand NV. Not watching the video, but even odds they completely misunderstood the Courier-Ulysses relationship and just assumed that the Courier was supposed to know who Ulysses was. edit: Nope they just think that you have amnesia after getting shot in the head and they missed any of the dialogue options where you get to fill out your backstory. Also they think NV has no first act because they think pre-getting shot in the head is the first act, and not the journey to New Vegas. Because I guess they think first act of a three act-structure must be perfectly peaceful? I dunno. Also they ragged on not getting your personal effects when you do, you just don't have very much. I think a bunch of it was also pre-order DLC? TGLT fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 16:38
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I understand the appeal of prequels to the entertainment industry. The ending is already written so you cut off the parade of idiots stumbling over themselves to add plot twists and subversions to prove how clever they are. What is everyone else’s compulsion to sink backwards into a narrative and demand the story before the current story? Like it already exists and just needs to be excavated from some ethereal bedrock.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:20
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Bar Crow posted:I understand the appeal of prequels to the entertainment industry. The ending is already written so you cut off the parade of idiots stumbling over themselves to add plot twists and subversions to prove how clever they are. What is everyone else’s compulsion to sink backwards into a narrative and demand the story before the current story? Like it already exists and just needs to be excavated from some ethereal bedrock. Terrible Opinions posted:There is a very appropriate Ross clip on this particular nerd issue.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:29
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It’s like there’s a need for the feeling of control that comes from understanding how the world works but the real world is too complicated or upsetting. So instead they take solace in the knowledge that the alien bounty hunter comes from a race of bounty hunters. That explains why this one is a bounty hunter.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:58
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Bar Crow posted:I understand the appeal of prequels to the entertainment industry. The ending is already written so you cut off the parade of idiots stumbling over themselves to add plot twists and subversions to prove how clever they are. What is everyone else’s compulsion to sink backwards into a narrative and demand the story before the current story? Like it already exists and just needs to be excavated from some ethereal bedrock. People crave familiarity. Also it’s hard not to set your barometer to whatever slop falls into the trough when slop is all there is.
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Jun 6, 2018 18:16
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Part of me wonders if our demand for book-depth in our movies (or in some cases movies adapted from books) means people want more background when none was ever needed before, and movie execs are happy to fill in that gap with whatever connects the dots. Is this just a modern film development? Did anyone really care that much that Obi Wan's life story was barely explained in Star Wars when it came out? I mean, the average comic book origin story back in the 80's and before took approximately one page, not an entire movie's worth of material. Are we as audiences just less satisfied with filling the gaps on a character's life ourselves now? Or are we okay with that as long as it's not pointed out, but movies are happy to cash in on those anyway? I'm one to generally shrug at best on prequels or continuing stories that already felt completed, but that's me.
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Jun 6, 2018 18:33
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better call saul is a prequel and is the best show on tv. half of godfather part ii is a prequel and it's an amazing film. it can be done well it's just usually done unnecessarily and poorly.
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Jun 6, 2018 18:38
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TGLT posted:Not watching the video, but even odds they completely misunderstood the Courier-Ulysses relationship and just assumed that the Courier was supposed to know who Ulysses was. They also talk about how they could have implied an "Act 1" by giving the player perks or something, apparently missing that that's almost exactly what Traits are. I have never seen somebody be so wrong about a video game before.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:08
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I've yet to finish New Vegas (I suffer from what I call Gamer's ADD where I switch games all the time), but I thought you waking up after getting almost killed by a dude and then piecing things together was a great hook at the start of the game.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:23
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I feel that this image is appropriate.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:24
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MonsieurChoc posted:I've yet to finish New Vegas (I suffer from what I call Gamer's ADD where I switch games all the time), but I thought you waking up after getting almost killed by a dude and then piecing things together was a great hook at the start of the game. because it is!
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Jun 6, 2018 19:29
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It's a really good opening, and it's extra good because they only spend time at the start with what actually matters to the story - you're a courier, you were hired to deliver a thing, poo poo went south. The only other part of your character's background that matters - you accidentally helped destroy the Divide - is an element the Courier does not realize they were in any way responsible for. It's a lot better than FO3 where a solid chunk of the opening is wasted on a bunch of baby time that doesn't matter to anything. If they had to do this kid to adult thing then they shoulda just jumped to the birthday party, since at least that establishes some of the other vault peeps and the general tone of the vault. I think part of it is they got confused and treated New Vegas as the story of the Courier, instead of the story of the Mojave Wasteland and its inhabitants.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:42
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It's such a Western thing too.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:47
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stillvisions posted:Part of me wonders if our demand for book-depth in our movies (or in some cases movies adapted from books) means people want more background when none was ever needed before, and movie execs are happy to fill in that gap with whatever connects the dots. It could be to do with the fact that audiences have become more aware of popular character archetypes and clichés than they were in the past. Advancements like cable TV, VHS and later the internet gave us increasingly larger pools of movies to choose from, meaning it was easier to recognize when the same type of character would show up over and over again. This made people more likely to wonder “what makes this one different from all the rest?” when they saw something they were familiar with, hence the demand for a more detailed backstory. Writers are aware of this as well, so they’re also becoming more eager to make their creations distinct. That might explain the increased interest, anyway. As for why studios are so eager to make prequels, it’s more likely that they’re just wanting to exploit reliable brand names to make a quick buck. Bakeneko fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 19:50
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I can see myself replaying New Vegas, a quick little fmv, then you wake up and do your stats and have a nice little setpiece that could go a couple of ways depending on your decisions I cannot in any way see myself replaying 3, being a boring baby to learn how to move, being a boring child to learn how to shoot, then more boring bullshit until finally you get to gently caress off and play
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Jun 6, 2018 20:48
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Even the very first story mission in New Vegas (Ghost Town Gunfight) is so much better and more reactive than anything in 3. Maybe the bit with the ghouls in Tenpenny Tower can match some of that, but they're so underdeveloped. Why are they rich? Who gives a poo poo anymore, it's been 200 years since anyone made Rolex watches and the main use for pre-War money is to scrub pans.
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Jun 6, 2018 20:56
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I don't really mind the Fallout 3 intro. It's gimmicky with its presentation, but I think it works to sort of set a tone and gradually introduce the player to some of the mechanics. I feel like it's tailored more to people who might have never played a game before. If anything, I think it's much better than Fallout 4's intro, since the choices you make through the intro give you some level of roleplaying or expression of your character's personality. The problem with it is kind of the same with all of Bethesda's intros from Oblivion onward; once you've gone through it once, you really don't want to go through it each time you start a new character. New Vegas is nice, as it lets you beeline out of Goodsprings once you get out of Doc Mitchell's house. That's why alternate start mods are nice (though to be fair, New Vegas also has an alternate start mod as well). Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 21:33
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It’s a shame more RPGs don't do what Dragon Age: Origins did and give you a choice of opening acts. That would at least give you some variety even if they all merge together later on. Looking at Fallout 3 as an example, would it really have been so difficult to offer different starting scenarios, even if they all have to stick to the lame follow-your-father plotline? The vault more or less gets forgotten after you leave it, save for that one sidequest where you go back and then get exiled again. The only important plot point is that your father raised you before he ran off; he could have done so in Megaton or on an isolated farm or practically anywhere and the result would have been the same. It would have been fun to be able to start at a bunch of different places, each with their own quest lines that eventually lead to you getting sent in the direction of the radio station. But alas, something like that would have required effort on the part of the quest designers and not even Bioware seems capable of that these days.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:09
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i've played through new vegas five times and it's a shame that there'll never be one anywhere near as good again.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:12
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poo poo Goodspring's is better because the poo poo you do there actually has an impact on the rest of the game. Beyond the fact you get some nice starter mysteries (Who shot me? Did they leave any clues? Who is this cowboy robot that saved me? Why did it save me?), the Powder Gangers are the main bandit faction up until around Nipton. How you deal with them in Goodsprings is gonna dictate how they behave around you. Plus Goodsprings is thematically relevant, whereas Vault 101 is sort of about autonomy versus safety but nothing else in the FO3 is. BOS offers safety with no sacrifice in local autonomy, Enclave just want to kill everyone for really vague reasons. I can't really think of any part of FO3 that also hits up on "man <person in charge> is a dick but it's safer here than out there."
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Jun 6, 2018 22:18
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It's great how no matter what dialogue you choose for the courier in Lonesome Road, Ulysses is still an insane person with delusions of grandeur.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:29
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Terrible Opinions posted:LoL was just barely behind 40k in terms of "intentionally make the new product overpowered to make it sell better". I mean, sure, if you ignore the many, many times champions launched underpowered and had to be patched to not completely suck. But I guess that just means Riot are both money-grubbing AND incompetent, right?  As if they don't make the bulk of their money on skins anyway. Max Wilco posted:I don't really mind the Fallout 3 intro. It's gimmicky with its presentation, but I think it works to sort of set a tone and gradually introduce the player to some of the mechanics. I feel like it's tailored more to people who might have never played a game before. If anything, I think it's much better than Fallout 4's intro, since the choices you make through the intro give you some level of roleplaying or expression of your character's personality. Yeah, I'll defend Fallout 3's intro for having narrative momentum and clear purposes. That of establishing a bond with your father, so his sudden exit has more weight and giving you a strong core objective once you enter the gameworld, and acting as a vertical slice showing off all of the different ins and outs of Fallout - important for players who have probably never encountered a Fallout game before. Not that New Vegas' intro is specifically worse or bad, but I don't personally prefer it. I find it too low-key and reliant on the player filling in all of the blanks. Clearly a lot of people like that kind of narrative freedom, but I've always preferred a slightly more directed experience. Ironically, once you're out of the immediate intros, the games largely flip-flop, with F3 being a vast open world filled with random pockets of stuff, while NV has a very obvious intended route taking you through specific set-pieces. I don't find it a coincidence that I sputtered out on F3 relatively quickly, but stuck with NV...up until you get to New Vegas proper and suddenly you're buried under quests that are sending you to every corner of the map. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 22:42
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John Murdoch posted:I find it too low-key and reliant on the player filling in all of the blanks. this is how games should be. they aren't films. there aren't really any blanks to fill in besides.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:45
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Groovelord Neato posted:this is how games should be. they aren't films. I disagree.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:47
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Leal posted:I feel that this image is appropriate.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:48
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Ghostlight posted:This image somewhat over-exaggerates the water chip's importance to Fallout's plot. Regardless of what ends up happening it is, like all the other bits, the opening hook
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Jun 6, 2018 22:51
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chandler badabing.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:51
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I'll never not be amused by the time I accidentally skipped one or two main quests of F3 and ended up in the Twilight Zone, which honestly probably improved my experience since I had no idea Dad was there. That quest was legit great, too.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:53
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John Murdoch posted:I disagree. what's the point of playing a game if you're just told the story.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:56
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Groovelord Neato posted:what's the point of playing a game if you're just told the story. Hottake: The MCU films are games.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:04
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Groovelord Neato posted:what's the point of playing a game if you're just told the story. Something something Dark Souls, right?
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Jun 6, 2018 23:07
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from's the only ones doing narrative correctly in games so yeah. they've legit ruined the medium for me.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:10
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Nah. Narrative in AAA games is still trying to catch up to a PS2 stealth game from 2001.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:19
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Groovelord Neato posted:what's the point of playing a game if you're just told the story. Not all games need to take full advantage of the narrative options of choice in game. Sometimes, it's just fun to have a framing device to give you an excuse for why your doodz are shooting/punching/trying to outsmart other doodz, with some further story in between as a reward and break from gameplay.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:24
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It's me, I'm the guy that found God of War a more compelling narrative than any Souls/Bloodborne game.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:26
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Roth posted:It's me, I'm the guy that found God of War a more compelling narrative than any Souls/Bloodborne game. I respect you. I don't get you, but I respect you.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:28
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i don't.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:29
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Killer7 is almost entirely on rails and while not without its flaws it's an engaging and prescient narrative
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Jun 6, 2018 23:30
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Hollywood and others do prequels because people will see movies that are about things they recognize and that's it. They don't really care if it's a good story or not, it's just to make things people will buy because they know what that thing is.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:30
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sexpig by night posted:I respect you. I don't get you, but I respect you. Dark Souls doesn't have a pair of funny dwarf brothers.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:35
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