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pay people for their labor. expecting someone to take pto to do your stupid homework is even loving worse. you're literally paying to do free work for other people.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:09
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ADINSX posted:Yeah normally I'm all about work is for work and respecting time off but if you're gonna throw a shitfit about a 3 hour take home interview question its probably not gonna work out. Hell, the places that did it had like a 2 hour in-person interview, so the total time interviewing was less than some of the all day ones. What do you do when a company wants to fly you out? Do you demand compensation for the time after the interview? What about the time you spent reviewing poo poo in preperation? again, the reciprocity is key here i agree to fly out and you agree to pay for my expenses. i agree to give you my time as a candidate, and you agree to have your team spend their own very valuable time to evaluate me. ADINSX posted:Interviewing takes a lot of time, 3 hours here and there for a take home is not much compared to the rest of the process. it doesn't matter if it's 45 minutes or three days, the very conceit of homework is abusive behavior if you want something extra from a candidate, the right and proper thing to do is pay for it
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Jun 9, 2018 19:10
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the candidate derives no value from the homework, it is only a burden the interview itself is a mutual process of evaluation. everyone gives up time freely because there is a mutual benefit.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:10
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:again, the reciprocity is key here They review the homework; they also probably spend time inventing the problem. There is reciprocity its just not synchronous
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Jun 9, 2018 19:12
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ADINSX posted:They review the homework; they also probably spend time inventing the problem. There is reciprocity its just not synchronous it's not reciprocal because the candidate doesn't benefit directly from the process homework done for a job doesn't do poo poo for the candidate
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Jun 9, 2018 19:13
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:it's not reciprocal because the candidate doesn't benefit directly from the process isn’t this equally true of literally every step of the interview process
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Jun 9, 2018 19:14
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:it's not reciprocal because the candidate doesn't benefit directly from the process They benefit because it helps them get a job. I don't understand the miscommunication here. I am describing "what if whiteboard problem, but you do it at home and I'm not looking over your shoulder the whole time". The interviewer still has to review the answer, just like they would in person. Is that really a foreign concept?
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Jun 9, 2018 19:15
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raminasi posted:isn’t this equally true of literally every step of the interview process ADINSX posted:They benefit because it helps them get a job. I don't understand the miscommunication here. I am describing "what if whiteboard problem, but you do it at home and I'm not looking over your shoulder the whole time". The interviewer still has to review the answer, just like they would in person. here's the thing: when you expect poo poo for free, it needs to be mutually beneficial. not just "it could get me a job" the interview process is mutually beneficial because you and the candidate learn things about one another, even if no offer results from the process
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Jun 9, 2018 19:30
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the interview could inform the candidate about your company enough that no offer is desired the homework might do the same thing, but only by accident -- unpaid homework indicates you're a loving rear end in a top hat
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Jun 9, 2018 19:31
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:here's the thing: when you expect poo poo for free, it needs to be mutually beneficial. not just "it could get me a job" I don't understand how writing on the whiteboard isn't "poo poo for free"... the interviewer is just watching. Do you bring one of those chess timers to interviews and write up a bill based on who did the most talking? But whatever, we're not going to convince each other, which works out I guess. If a company tells you they do a take home you can tell them to gently caress off, and if you go on this spergy rant to the company, they'll probably decide that's for the best
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Jun 9, 2018 19:36
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if the interviewer hands you a sheet of paper with a problem on it and says nothing while you write a solution on the whiteboard then yes, they're equivalent. also do not work for those people.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:38
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If you don’t wanna do the exercise then walk away from the job opportunity. Glassdoor (iirc) gives each candidate (e: who passes the interview round) a two week paid on site project and I flipped when I heard that. I’d rather take an unpaid quick project any day
Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jun 9, 2018 |
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Jun 9, 2018 19:39
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I once wrote a very long answer for an ill-posed homework problem where there was no single right answer but e.g. "a regex like _this_ is the first thing you'd think of, but that's incomplete so to handle all cases you'd need an insane long regex like _this_ but the most important thing here is that if someone asked me to do this IRL I would first look at them as though they were crazy and ask Why?" They really liked my answer. The question was, in the final analysis, real dumb as was the job.
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Jun 9, 2018 20:34
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why not offer people a take-home problem or a live coding exercise. tbh I’d go for the take-home every time, spending a weekend on some code is vastly preferable than having a timed thing or a live thing. I can pseudocode and whiteboard some poo poo out no problem but poo poo like “reimplement string tokenization” with no ide or google and you’re graded on correctness strikes me as incredibly dumb and a great way to self-select for people that memorize the stdlib but not much else.
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Jun 9, 2018 21:44
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we give candidates either the option of a take home where they design a solution to an arbitrary coding problem that involves maybe 3-4 hours, or an hour on the phone where we do a problem or two with them in a shared text editor also, during the in-person interview there's a two hour pair programming sesh on a different arbitrary project in both of the coding cases its really just checking that they can actually design something and put some thought into the tradeoffs that they encounter. the in-person one is intentionally presented in vague terms to see whether the candidate asks follow up questions or if they immediately go off into the weeds in all cases the exercises are producing throwaway code
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Jun 9, 2018 22:00
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btw interviewers who constantly interrupt a candidate while they're actively working on a whiteboard problem are the worst and if that's reciprocity i want none of it
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Jun 9, 2018 22:02
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Progressive JPEG posted:also, during the in-person interview there's a two hour pair programming sesh on a different arbitrary project barf, no thanks
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Jun 9, 2018 22:47
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here's the thing. google and fb and a handful of other companies can ask candidates to come out to california for three days of grueling interviews with in depth technical evaluation because for google and fb there's an endless well of qualified people willing to come out to california and go through that process. this is also how heroku and github can ask you to do a multiple day take home evaluation. there's enough people who want to work there that they don't need to worry about turning away people your company that can't find or retain qualified devs can't get away with this because why would anyone qualified give you 12+ hours of their time when the reward for doing so is the same quality of job they can get via telling their friends they need a new job? when you raise your bar for hiring you better be raising your compensation to match otherwise you're just wasting time with only those too clueless or too desperate to know to walk away
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Jun 9, 2018 23:03
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Gazpacho posted:If you don’t wanna do the exercise then walk away from the job opportunity. Glassdoor (iirc) gives each candidate (e: who passes the interview round) a two week paid on site project and I flipped when I heard that. I’d rather take an unpaid quick project any day these are unfortunate because they’re great for people currently unemployed in that city but completely untenable for everyone else I did a shorter version of that somewhere and it worked pretty good (even though I didn’t get an offer because an unrelated part of their hiring process was a pile of farts)
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Jun 9, 2018 23:55
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Gazpacho posted:If you don’t wanna do the exercise then walk away from the job opportunity. Glassdoor (iirc) gives each candidate (e: who passes the interview round) a two week paid on site project and I flipped when I heard that. I’d rather take an unpaid quick project any day I would love to go to a company for two weeks for a paid project but imagine blowing your PTO on that and deciding you don't want the job. "How was your vacation? Go anywhere?"
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Jun 10, 2018 13:06
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it would be bizarre for someone who was employed to agree to take two weeks off to do a project for glassdoor of all places for the unemployed it sounds ok until you consider the opportunity cost of all the other jobs you cant interview for during those two weeks
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Jun 10, 2018 14:08
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did they mention what the pay was during those two weeks? I mean it sounds awful but it would be the difference between minimum wage awful and just awful
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Jun 10, 2018 14:31
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inset posted:Second part is basically setting innerHTML of an element to '', ... maybe the test is bad. if you are asking an interview question where innerHTML is at all involved in 2018, you deserve a swift kick in the genitals.
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Jun 10, 2018 14:47
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TimWinter posted:I would love to go to a company for two weeks for a paid project but imagine blowing your PTO on that and deciding you don't want the job. Which is why after my bonus is confirmed I’m blowing the joint and taking the awesomest road trip
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Jun 10, 2018 15:55
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Gazpacho posted:If you don’t wanna do the exercise then walk away from the job opportunity. Glassdoor (iirc) gives each candidate (e: who passes the interview round) a two week paid on site project and I flipped when I heard that. I’d rather take an unpaid quick project any day
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Jun 10, 2018 16:24
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:if the information is that valuable, pay your candidates Homework is good Paying for homework is great and something I bring to each of my jobs when I do hiring. Not by the hour tho lmao
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Jun 11, 2018 04:57
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Matt Zerella posted:pay people for their labor. Labor lol. gently caress offffffff
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Jun 11, 2018 04:59
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current interviewing status: talked to the engineering company. sounded interesting, but I probably bombed it, welp
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Jun 11, 2018 12:33
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TheFluff posted:current interviewing status: talked to the engineering company. sounded interesting, but I probably bombed it, welp This is my permanent interviewing status
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Jun 11, 2018 18:12
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it was going pretty good and i mentioned a clever solution i came up with to a particular problem a few years ago, and the interviewer asked "what kind of data structure would you have used to solve that problem today" and i was just like uuuuuuuuh data structures????? they specifically asked for good working knowledge of common data structures or some poo poo like that in the ad. several hours later while thinking back on it i of course remembered all of the reasons why i solved it the way i did and that it was really more of a database consistency problem than a keep-state-in-a-datastructure problem and and and fffffffff
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Jun 11, 2018 21:38
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well, valley company with 6 hour interview passed, with specific feedback to come soon good thing I had another safer offer that’s still a huge raise and improvement.
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Jun 12, 2018 11:51
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TheFluff posted:it was going pretty good and i mentioned a clever solution i came up with to a particular problem a few years ago, and the interviewer asked "what kind of data structure would you have used to solve that problem today" and i was just like uuuuuuuuh data structures????? they specifically asked for good working knowledge of common data structures or some poo poo like that in the ad. If the question was such a parity mismatch why not mention it to the interviewer? Why do you subject us to your worst moments?!? It's like watching Wonder Years in VR. No.
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Jun 12, 2018 12:25
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homercles posted:If the question was such a parity mismatch why not mention it to the interviewer? Why do you subject us to your worst moments?!?  i did hear back from three other places i've been having short interviews (30-60 mins) with though and they were all positive 
TheFluff fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 13:50
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I yearn for the day where storing data in a well implemented dequeue is actually the bottleneck to the success of software I'm writing. I'm beginning to see that technical interview questions are more about "do you know what I know" rather than "can you suceed at this job".
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Jun 14, 2018 02:34
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Diversity is extremely important! We have employees from Stanford CS 2018, 2017, 2016, AND 2015! Hell, there’s even James from Caltech down in IT!!!
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Jun 14, 2018 02:42
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My CEO has been floating the idea today of me absorbing some other guy's team and taking over the entire cloud operation for the company. Seems like figures are incoming soon.
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Jun 14, 2018 03:03
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qhat posted:My CEO has been floating the idea today of me absorbing some other guy's team and taking over the entire cloud operation for the company. Seems like figures are incoming soon. who said anything about figs --[hopefully not] your boss
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Jun 14, 2018 03:10
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ADINSX posted:who said anything about figs --[hopefully not] your boss i assume he meant that this is a reorganization that he can leverage into a position that actually pays
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Jun 14, 2018 03:19
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TimWinter posted:I'm beginning to see that technical interview questions are more about "do you know what I know" rather than "can you suceed at this job".
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Jun 14, 2018 03:24
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hobbesmaster posted:i assume he meant that this is a reorganization that he can leverage into a position that actually pays Pretty much. If I get officially asked to do it, my first question is going to be asking how much they are gonna pay me.
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Jun 14, 2018 03:41
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