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ulex minor posted:I don't think Eichmann would be very impressed with Thanos since the cull is completely random. There's no ideology behind who's living or dying, just chance. Dr. Strange calls him genocidal or that he's commiting a genocide but that's not a good word to use for it. Omnicidal or demicidal would be better.
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Jun 14, 2018 06:53
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Ghostlight posted:Putting aside the much larger and more incoherent outcry of "Killmonger was right" in the wake of that film - the rationality behind Thanos' plan is exactly the point. Thanos' monstrosity is not his will to destroy. It's not an unreasonable rage against the universe. It's cold, simple, dehumanising logic. His grief at killing Gamora is displayed not to engender pity for him, but to show the full scale of his monstrous lack of empathy - his concern is only for what she as a single death means for him (and not what her death means for her), but the entire movie is about him placing his finger on the scales of misery to keep it at a level that he believes is right with no regard for what it means to others. It's not logical, it's framed as being logical that's the problem of engaging movies as if they came from out of the either. Why is he framed as being tactical and a rational thinker but his first choice to resolve conflict is to puch? Why did they choose to have the bad guy make a heroic sacrifice? Why does his plan have to be internally consistent and rational? If his plan isn't rational, why do they not explore it? Why does the Thanos have to have a rational for deleting half the universal population? They had control over what they kept and what they changed from the comics, why keep erase half the population part anyway? The problem with pop culture these days is that everything has to have pathos so the think pieces get written while simultaneously being as apolitical as possible and it's so loving tireing. Ghostlight posted:I don't see how that is so, unless you mistakenly equate logic with truth. It's not logical because we see his logic process on why genocide is the "only answer", it's logical because he says it is. if you want to be pedantic, a fictional character isn't capable of thought so he can't by definition have logic. Also he has magic stones with unlimited power to change reality.
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Jun 14, 2018 07:02
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Terrible Opinions posted:Overpopulation isn't a real problem period. correct. overconsumption is a real problem; 'overpopulation' is just a way for people living comfortable lives in the developed world to justify the horrid conditions the majority of the world population live in. we have more than enough resources on this planet to eliminate poverty, hunger, deaths from preventable disease etc., it's a case of it not being profitable or convenient to do so. i see shithead white boomers on facebook comments bitch about overpopulation any time i read a story about famines in africa and it makes my fuckin blood boil. DEEP STATE PLOT fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 07:04
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OmanyteJackson posted:It's not logical, it's framed as being logical that's the problem of engaging movies as if they came from out of the either. Why is he framed as being tactical and a rational thinker but his first choice to resolve conflict is to puch? Why did they choose to have the bad guy make a heroic sacrifice? Why does his plan have to be internally consistent and rational? If his plan isn't rational, why do they not explore it? Why does the Thanos have to have a rational for deleting half the universal population? I guess you're just afraid to debate thanos because he'll destroy you with logic and slash or his big bejazzled glove, another lifeist debunked
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Jun 14, 2018 07:08
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If anything the character proves people have a real hard time telling the difference between sympathy and empathy, as well as the difference between depiction and endorsement.
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Jun 14, 2018 07:34
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Infinity War, much like Spider-Man: Homecoming, did a great job of showing how and why the villain got from A to D. A much better villain than the Red Skull even if being a Nazi is a pretty good way to sell them as evil. Doesn't mean that I'm on team Thanos or anything but I see why he's doing poo poo. Also people not recognizing that characters are supposed to be the villain is nothing new. It happens all the Goddamn time. Walter White, Senator Armstrong, literally everything. I'm sure if you look for five minutes you can find someone saying Sid from Toy Story was actually the hero.
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Jun 14, 2018 07:46
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VolticSurge posted:On an unrelated note, Jurassic World:The Quickening or whatever the gently caress it's called isn't even out in theaters in North America yet, but somehow this guy already has a review up. Don't ask me how that's possible. He says in the comments that they got it earlier than American audiences did. I recognize this guy, MauLer. He did a pretty long rebuttal to HBomb's Dark Souls 2 Defense video, which I watched a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzKasf4_x34 He seems okay, albeit maybe a bit overly pedantic. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 07:52
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RareAcumen posted:I'm sure if you look for five minutes you can find someone saying Sid from Toy Story was actually the hero. The only reason I find that hard to believe is that Sid was only in the movie for like 10 minutes max. The confusion normally comes from people mixing up hero and protagonist. I have not seen IW yet, but I'm guessing he has more airtime than Sid.
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Jun 14, 2018 08:34
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Didn't necessarily stop anyone. There have been a few think pieces on Sid. Looks like Cracked did a few, here's one: http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-3-most-depressing-minor-characters-in-famous-movies/ Sid's #1.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:17
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OmanyteJackson posted:It's not logical, it's framed as being logical that's the problem of engaging movies as if they came from out of the either. Why is he framed as being tactical and a rational thinker but his first choice to resolve conflict is to puch? Why did they choose to have the bad guy make a heroic sacrifice? Why does his plan have to be internally consistent and rational? If his plan isn't rational, why do they not explore it? Why does the Thanos have to have a rational for deleting half the universal population? It's... I don't know what you mean by heroic sacrifice..? Like, do you mean killing Gamora? The part where he "heroically" murders someone for his own ends??? He presents his struggle to the viewers as heroic because he is a deranged madman trying to murder half the galaxy. His plan isn't internally consistent - it is in fact insanely myopic - but he presents it as rational because he truly believes in it. Nobody else in the movie agrees with him. At no point does Captain America say "hey, maybe he has a point about murdering people over natural resources?" Whether or not he must be stopped is never at any point questioned. I don't know why you wouldn't give him a rationale for doing things. Like, would it make him a more engaging character if he just wanted to kill half the universe because otherwise the good guys have nobody to punch? Would anyone come out of that movie thinking about it - or more importantly talking about it to others? OmanyteJackson posted:They had control over what they kept and what they changed from the comics, why keep erase half the population part anyway? OmanyteJackson posted:It's not logical because we see his logic process on why genocide is the "only answer", it's logical because he says it is.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:26
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lobster22221 posted:The only reason I find that hard to believe is that Sid was only in the movie for like 10 minutes max. The confusion normally comes from people mixing up hero and protagonist. I have not seen IW yet, but I'm guessing he has more airtime than Sid. Fine, Ebeneezr Scrooge was the good guy and that greedy Cratchit family was just taking advantage of him. Point being, you'll always get people that will side with the villain because they're poo poo. Whether it's 'Wolfenstein is an assault on white men' or wanting to be the tyrannical despot of a post apocalypse like Caesar or Negan.
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Jun 14, 2018 10:09
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Ghostlight posted:I don't recall there being any presentation of his Rational Thinking in the movie that wasn't explicitly dialogue from Thanos. I would argue that the inconsistency you see between that and him punching everything is not unintended. thanks, this is a p good post
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Jun 14, 2018 11:14
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Max Wilco posted:He says in the comments that they got it earlier than American audiences did. I like the part where he has a minor melt down over dark souls 2's PVP because he, personally, does not like it and is bad at it therefore it is objectively bad and anyone who likes it is dumb.
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Jun 14, 2018 12:12
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RareAcumen posted:Fine, Ebeneezr Scrooge was the good guy and that greedy Cratchit family was just taking advantage of him. Point being, you'll always get people that will side with the villain because they're poo poo. Whether it's 'Wolfenstein is an assault on white men' or wanting to be the tyrannical despot of a post apocalypse like Caesar or Negan.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:22
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Nuebot posted:I like the part where he has a minor melt down over dark souls 2's PVP because he, personally, does not like it and is bad at it therefore it is objectively bad and anyone who likes it is dumb. to be fair, it's pretty bad.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:25
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Thanos is a fascist villain and America is a fascist nation so of course a lot of people are going to think he's right and nothing in the world would change that even if you had the movie end with a peer-reviewed essay with multiple citations on how malthisian theory is total bullshit so ya'll need to unbreak your brains a bit
Augus fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 13:59
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I think a Thanos biggest problem is the removal of death as his motivation. changing it to a rather generic and nonsensical motive drags the movie down a lot.
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Jun 14, 2018 14:00
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Sarcopenia posted:I think a lot of people feel like that because often those villains are more charismatic or interesting than the boring stock hero. And then there's those libertarian psychopaths who aspire to be inhuman garbage. See also every dude I've known who ironically idolize Tyler Durden but always have a weird hate boner for Marla. TBF, Tyler was a lot more glamourised in the movie than in the book. Being played by Brad Pitt and not being such an arrogant, know-nothing dumbass that your plan fails miserably will do that.
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Jun 14, 2018 14:10
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I mean if ya'll would prefer if the movie had Lady Death in it so that we can get those think pieces about how Thanos is an incel and this is what happens to the world under feminism then hey more power to you.
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Jun 14, 2018 14:29
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That’s not noticeably different than maybe killing half the population is cool and good.
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Jun 14, 2018 14:34
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I mean Thanos is a pretty accurate mirror of what bad people in real life actually believe and it's interesting to see how people's response to a fictional fascist is so similar to their response to real-life fascists: they would much rather hand-wring, dance around the issue, and talk about literally anything else than actually directly deal with what is right in front of them. It's much easier to talk about "plot holes" and "bad writing" than admit that Thanos is an incredibly realistic depiction of a fascist worldview. And people obviously only agree with Thanos because the movie is poorly written and if we point out the logical holes in his plan they'll see the light of day. Sure the plan is morally repugnant and monstrous beyond belief, but the REAL problem is obviously that it's just not practical. Because nobody in real life would ever callously sacrifice countless people and, say, excuse it as necessary and good because the stock market jumped up a couple points or something. That'd just be crazy and wacky. Augus fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 14:44
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Ghostlight posted:
Yes but the movie dose not frame it like that it frames all of Thanos's actions like a zombie movie would frame the hard choices made by a hard man who has to do these terrible things for the greater good and because this is only half the story we don't get the catharsis of the heroes smacking him and his lunacy down that is why people dislike it.
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Jun 14, 2018 14:45
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The audience is inherently told to disagree with Thanos when he viciously murders, brutalizes, and emotionally torments a bunch of beloved characters in cold blood before their eyes, which is a thing that the audience does not like.
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Jun 14, 2018 14:51
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Darth Walrus posted:TBF, Tyler was a lot more glamourised in the movie than in the book. Being played by Brad Pitt and not being such an arrogant, know-nothing dumbass that your plan fails miserably will do that. Lol if you think any of those guys have ever read the book. But you would think that the fact that he is and looks like an actual Calvin Klein model would make them get his hypocrisy.
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Jun 14, 2018 14:54
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Augus posted:The audience is inherently told to disagree with Thanos when he viciously murders, brutalizes, and emotionally torments a bunch of beloved characters in cold blood before their eyes, which is a thing that the audience does not like. Thanos is consistent, but not logical. His home panet didn't agree with his plan to kill 50% of the population, then they all died. Now he applies that solution to every population he comes across regardless of the circumstances. The Asguarians had just had most of their population get Ragnarocked but that didn't stop Thanos from killing half of the survivors at the start of the film and presumably half again at the end.
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Jun 14, 2018 15:42
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CharlestheHammer posted:I think a Thanos biggest problem is the removal of death as his motivation. Right, the absence of a character that would need loads of backstory and setup would NOT drag down the movie (or previous movies, for that matter).
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Jun 14, 2018 15:42
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the absolutely unheard of, never before seen by audiences of movies or any other kind of medium beforehand except seasoned comic book readers, "the personification of Death" COMPLETELY impossible to include in a movie without at least 7 more movies of buildup
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Jun 14, 2018 15:53
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Alaois posted:the absolutely unheard of, never before seen by audiences of movies or any other kind of medium beforehand except seasoned comic book readers, "the personification of Death" Having your giant, ludicrously ambitious crossover event be a romcom about mass murder would be an insanely badass power move.
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Jun 14, 2018 15:57
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Alaois posted:the absolutely unheard of, never before seen by audiences of movies or any other kind of medium beforehand except seasoned comic book readers, "the personification of Death" When nothing in the series thus far has made it a normal thing, then it kinda does need some setup. We aren't talking about a one-off story or the beginning of a series where you would establish the kind of world that would have Death personified. This is the 19th movie in the series. Not a great place to just throw that in without setting up that this is a universe where forces of nature are personified.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:12
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You just know Thanos is going to get some poetic death scene where he stares into the heavens as everything he's accomplished is unraveled before his eyes. When he should actually have his death be like aragorn decapitating the mouth of sauron. More movies should treat their villains like the shits that they are. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 16:30
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btw I haven't seen infinity war yet so
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Jun 14, 2018 16:38
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TheMaestroso posted:Right, the absence of a character that would need loads of backstory and setup would NOT drag down the movie (or previous movies, for that matter). You don’t need a ton of backstory. You can explain it in two sentences tops You are way overthinking this
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Jun 14, 2018 16:41
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TheMaestroso posted:When nothing in the series thus far has made it a normal thing, then it kinda does need some setup. We aren't talking about a one-off story or the beginning of a series where you would establish the kind of world that would have Death personified. This is the 19th movie in the series. Not a great place to just throw that in without setting up that this is a universe where forces of nature are personified. Do you need a lot of explaination for why a raccoon and a tree can talk, Or did you just walk out of Guardians immediately
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Jun 14, 2018 16:43
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CharlestheHammer posted:You don’t need a ton of backstory. Alright, give me an example. CharlestheHammer posted:Do you need a lot of explaination for why a raccoon and a tree can talk, You're comparing an origin story with an Avengers movie. I don't think I need to explain the problem here.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:57
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TheMaestroso posted:Alright, give me an example. So he is killing people as the ultimate offering. TheMaestroso posted:You're comparing an origin story with an Avengers movie. I don't think I need to explain the problem here. You probably should. As I don’t think Guardians actually explains either because you don’t really need too.
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Jun 14, 2018 17:01
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Did Thanos shedding a tear when he kills Gamora really make so many people forget he was the villain? It's amazing how many takes I've seen that think the movie is promoting Thanos or his point of view.
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Jun 14, 2018 17:04
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He kills Gamora? drat
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Jun 14, 2018 17:07
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Junpei Hyde posted:He kills Gamora? drat He kills a lot of people it’s his gimmick.
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Jun 14, 2018 17:10
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anyway infinity war talk should prob go in CineD idk
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Jun 14, 2018 17:11
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Junpei Hyde posted:anyway infinity war talk should prob go in CineD idk Jesus Christ, no. I would never wish that on anyone.
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Jun 14, 2018 17:16
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