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Brock Lesnar can yell "JUMP!" and Vince responds "How high?" because Brock is one of those stars that transcends WWE. The WWE is always looking for acceptance and legitimacy and publicity outside of wrestling, be it in the movie industry or pro sports like UFC or music or regular TV shows, and when Brock, a guy who left the company and became more famous than he was when he started in it, said he was coming back, Vince leaped at the opportunity to lock him down to a contract that was much, much more than anybody else would have. The carny nature of Vince and his awful family demands megastars that he can promote on more than just Raw and Smackdown. If Brock goes out to a restaurant with his wife and kids and the paparazzi plaster his photos all over TMZ, they're usually accompanied by "BROCK LESNAR, WWE UNIVERSAL CHAMPION" as a subtitle. It's the same with Ronda Rousey and it's the same whenever Austin or Rock poke their heads back in for 15 minutes. And it's the same with Cena. Some Joe Schmoe from NJPW or ROH or TNA, no matter how talented they are, cannot obtain the kind of negotiating pull that people like Brock and Ronda can. AJ Styles and Shinsuke Nakamura were big gets for Vince, but I guarantee you he doesn't view them in the same light as Brock/Rock/Austin/Cena/Rousey. It's why he was so excited to have Mike Tyson involved in his booking 20 years ago, because when Austin and Tyson started shoving each other in the ring, that poo poo was on ESPN and Fox Sports and was on newspapers all over the planet. It was free publicity for Vince. He probably busted a nut when that happened.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:22
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BrigadierSensible posted:Forgive me if this has already been discussed or if it is terribly naive. CM Punk left out of unhappiness at his treatment, and the response by CM Punk fans was to give Vince more money to try and spite him. There are three talents in WWE that are not instantly replaceable in the eyes of WWE: John Cena, Brock Lesnar, and Ronda Rousey. Two of them have Brock deals, and third is still in the 'oh man I fuckin love wrestling' phase of the WWE life. Maybe you could argue they see Roman as irreplacable, but let's not pretend for a second that if Roman sought a Brock deal that fans wouldn't immediately call him an entitled rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:28
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It's why they started sending themed WWE title belt replicas to every North American team that wins a pro championship, because there's a good likelyhood that their belts will be draped over their shoulders during the parades. Gotta get that logo everywhere. Vince probably saw Hancock and wants to hire Will Smith to use his superpowers to etch the WWE logo on the face of the Moon, but nobody has the heart to tell Vince that was just a movie.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:30
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rare Magic card l00k posted:and third is still in the 'oh man I fuckin love wrestling' phase of the WWE life. A small part of me hopes John Cena, a truly mentally insane workaholic in the Vince mold, wrestles deep into middle age, because I feel like it's all he has in his life, and the instant he stops doing it and attempts to transition into other media fulltime (ala Hollywood), he's going to instantaneously become ultra depressed about his situation. He's very strict about not wanting to raise any kids, and will probably trick at least 2 more women into thinking he wants to marry them and then pull the rug out from them at the last second because of how badly he got burned by his first wife, and every time he's been injured, and normal humans not named John Cena usually need 6-8 months to heal from (insert random injury here), he's usually back in 4 or 5 weeks, defying all medical science and rational thought. He's like one of those people who have worked nonstop since their mid-teens and when they retire against their better judgement in their late 50's or early 60's, they drop dead a few months later because they slowed down when their bodies didn't know how to slow down. Cena's work ethic is 80's Cocaine Guy, but minus the cocaine. His body just constantly mimics a natural cocaine high. Vince is the same way. He hates sleeping (he allegedly sleeps something like 3 hours a night) and is so on edge, that he's actually fired people for sneezing in his prescence. He's afraid that if he quits the business and hands it over to Hunter and Stephanie, that they'll fail somehow or screw it all up, because per VinceLogic, only Vince knows how to do things and nobody else and he's going to be the Chairman until his dying breath because of that fear. It's.....not a healthy work environment. For anybody. Imagine having a corporate job where you and your team worked feverishly on a special project that your boss requested for a whole week, working late into the mornings and subsisting on coffee and donuts. And then you're so excited of what a good job you all did, and you make your presentation to the boss one morning, and in one fell swoop he says "Yeah, that's great, but what if we did THIS instead?" and then takes a dump all over the laptop projecting the Powerpoint charts. That's WWE in a nutshell. In an endless loop. Gonz fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 09:39
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Yeah, that all makes sense. Different question: Who do you think the WWE/Vince would have a hard on for getting into wrestling nowadays? (Like Tyson, Mr. T, Merryweather etc. back in teh day) I for one, would go bonzo bananas to see Terry Crews in a match. He is tall and muscly, (so Vince would love him), he is famous in the real world, (so Vince would want him), and the man oozes pure strain charisma. Also he is an ex-athlete so he could be trained to do the odd spot or two. Related question: Why don't they do the one spot "special attraction" deals like they did with Tyson, Merryweather, the bloke from Archer etc. anymore? Too expensive? Don't get the mainstream spike that Vince craves?
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Jun 14, 2018 09:40
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BrigadierSensible posted:Yeah, that all makes sense. If Conor McGregor hadn't shat the bed recently by physically assaulting UFC people in New York, I guarantee you that he would've been in the WWE either this year or next year. He's that big of a star. But his recent legal troubles have basically put the kibosh on that, for now. I say "for now" because Hogan is on the verge of coming back from the whole sex tape Gawker trial/racism stuff that got him fired in 2015. Who the hell knows. Conor might still be one of those people that Vince hopes the public has a short term memory about with regards to his very public fuckups. As far as money goes, WWE went so far as to cut pyrotechnic displays from their shows for quite some time in order to cut corners, but they're awash in cash now with that Fox deal, so they can afford a hell of a lot more now than they could at this time a year ago.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:50
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The most recent Folly of Vince is the Roman Reigns Project™, which can be summed up very shortly as "Imagine the Rock never becoming the Rock, and was continued to be pushed as Rocky Maivia past the summer of 1997, for almost 5 straight years, despite the constant DIE ROCKY DIE chants at every city on the continent". Had Vince turned Roman heel at the same point he turned the Rock heel, MAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYBE, just maybe, he could have duplicated the scenario and had a major superstar on his hands like the Rock ended up being. But that is a dreamworld fantasy on Vince's part, because Roman Reigns, while a perfectly cromulent performer, is not the Rock, despite sharing some DNA witht he Rock's family, and he will never be The Rock. The Rock can cut incredible, off-the-cuff promos while he's asleep, while Roman sounds like he's reading lines off of flash cards. The Rock was/is one of the most charismatic human beings to have ever lived, whereas the character of Roman Reigns has been ruined for all time, and Vince refuses to accept it. Which is why all of us are being punished for not accepting what Vince wanted to do. Vince could've done it, too, if only he hadn't been the same old Vince who thinks he can constantly catch one bolt of lightning in a bottle, over and over again, using the same old methods that have served him well in the past, never changing with the times now that he no longer needs to put forth any effort for anything. There is no WCW (or to a lesser extent, ECW) anymore. Vince murdered all the territories in their sleep and he murdered WCW and ECW, and ROH/TNA will never, in a million years, be able to compete with him. He's won. He's pretty much the only show in town, now, and he's wanted that for his whole life. He's the carnival barker version of the "And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer" quote. So he's just gonna keep trotting Roman Reigns out there on TV every week in the hopes that the fans will autocorrect their opinions and come to realize that Vince is a supergenius playing 16th dimensional chess. It's not Roman's fault, though. I don't blame the guy. I feel bad for the guy for Vince destroying all his heat. /whiny smark rant Gonz fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 10:04
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Gonz posted:The most recent Folly of Vince is the Roman Reigns Project™, which can be summed up very shortly as "Imagine the Rock never becoming the Rock, and was continued to be pushed as Rocky Maivia past the summer of 1997, for almost 5 straight years, despite the constant DIE ROCKY DIE chants at every city on the continent". It's actually very telling how different Vince actually is. According to Dave Meltzer Vince used to not take anyone's bullshit. If House Shows or ratings were down he was very level headed and would always say "They're down because we're not putting on a product people want to see." And that was that. Now however he's fallen into the routine every promoter falls in to, "Oh it's down because this, or that, or everything is down, or these numbers are good, or that." Anything that isn't admitting that frankly, the show being produced is not the show people want to see. And it's not that he's grown senile, although his mental faculties have undoubtedly taken a hit, you can only move at 150% for so long. It's that he has a huge chip on his shoulders, a chip that we could devote all the worlds psychologists to analysing and probably only scratch the surface of the mad mind of Vince McMahon. Like look at the Reigns thing, why IS he so fixated on Reigns? Is it because Cena proved you can have a Babyface that's booed and make money? Is it his strong merch sales (No.2 along side AJ Styles) Is it a feeling that he needs to prove to himself he can capture lightning again and create the next big thing? Does he see something else we don't? It's very hard to talk about it because ALL those things have an equally valid shot of being true as they do of not being the case.
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Jun 14, 2018 12:02
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I do think a lot of it also stems from the fact that in the past, he had to adapt and change or else he'd die. But he's won now. The wars are over, the competition are gone or owned by him or so tiny as to be inconsequential. Now he doesn't have to change his vision, which you can guarantee he ALWAYS thought was right in the past and he hated every second that he had to accept he was in the wrong and react accordingly. Now if people reject his hand-picked golden boy, he doesn't have to care, because his position is so secure now, the momentum of the juggernaut that is his company is so unstoppable, that he can happily just keep doubling down. Not only can he get away with it, he's rewarded for it with giant TV deals and huge influxes of cash. That is probably the most galling thing, because as far as he is concerned he probably feels he is proving that he was right all along, because the bottom line doesn't lie.
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Jun 14, 2018 12:37
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People always say "write X hours of TV a week". If it's too much to write, maybe have them wrestle longer? For like half of the roster I don't even know most of their moveset cause they wrestle 3 minute matches exclusively (hell for more than half the tag division I don't even know what their finishing move is). If I had to imagine a 15 minute fandango match I'd run out of material in no time because in all these years I still have no clue what he can do.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:02
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Matches: 5 minutes Commercial break: 15 minutes Recaps: 10 minutes Bobby Lashley Sisters Promo: 280 minutes Someone who is good at writing please help me budget this my show is dying.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:08
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Here's my take: Vince is a geriatric retard
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Jun 14, 2018 13:11
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Saint Freak posted:Matches: 5 minutes Put all the good promos/skits on WWE's youtube and talking sma... actually cancel talking smack. Send Big Cass out for 10 minutes when he has precisely one thing to say, and have him re-say it as many times as possible.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:20
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Saint Freak posted:Matches: 5 minutes
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Jun 14, 2018 13:30
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But none of this matters. The WWE is the only show in town. They could lose 10,000 viewers a week and they'd still make money hand over fist because they've refined every aspect of the company outside of the actual wrestling show part to just poo poo cash. It'll never get better, there's no incentive for it to get better because WWE is just immune to the market at this point. If I were Kenny, the only way I'd ever take a WWE contract is if it's written into my contract that a) I debut and win the Rumble b) I win the Main Event of Wrestlemania for the Title, where "Main Event" is defined as the last match on the card and "Title" is defined as whichever of the WWE/Universal Titles are defended on Raw c) I am guaranteed to hold the title for 6 months. Because it's the only way I don't get ratfucked by booking as soon as I show.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:32
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Natural 20 posted:
Go watch Rey Mysterio's first World title reign
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Jun 14, 2018 13:47
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I think another big problem with WWE is they like putting all of their eggs into one basket when it comes to pushing people. This is a pretty big problem on the main roster. Unless you are the challenger or the actual champion, you aren't getting a decent push. And the title picture state in main roster WWE right now is pretty...questionable for the most part. RAW: - Universal Title: It's held by Brock who only shows up once every 3-4 months. - Intercontinental Title: It's held by Seth Rollins who is busting his rear end off defending it. Really not much to say here. - RAW Tag Team Championships: No one really cares about these. Because main roster tag teams are treated like a joke for the most part. - RAW Women's Championship: It's being held by Nia Jax who is godawful. And if Ronda wins it, I fully expect her to eventually drift into Brock Lesnar territory when she does win it. I certainly don't expect her to ever wrestle in an actual singles match on RAW. She'll appear more, but I wouldn't expect her to wrestle outside of PPVs and maybe a handful of house shows. Smackdown: - WWE Title: Held by AJ Styles, who is caught in a pretty painful angle with Nakamura. I can't believe I'm typing that TYOOL 2018, but here we are. - US Title: Held by Jeff Hardy, who is good, but I wouldn't be shocked if he loses the title soon. He recently had his license suspended, and WWE will use that as an excuse to take the title off of him. - Smackdown Tag Team Championships: No one really cares about these. Because main roster tag teams are treated like a joke for the most part. Also Smackdown's tag team division is pretty barren right now in terms of challengers for the Bludgeon Brothers (we all know Anderson and Gallows aren't winning). - Smackdown Women's Championship: Held by Carmella who is super green at best (or downright awful, depending on your perspective). Better than Nia, but still far from ideal considering there are much more talented women in the division who the belt can go on. Carmella is basically the female Enzo when it comes to in ring stuff. I would cover NXT, but for the most part, their titles actually mean something and can be seen as prestigious. The only one I don't really care about right now is the NXT title. And that's because Lars Sullivan vs Alister Black is an incredibly uninteresting feud for me. And 205 Live lives in its own alternate reality right now. DarkstarIV fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 14:11
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I think it will be a long time until Omega even considers signing with the WWE. https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/03/24/kenny-omega-welcomes-lgbt-people-to-wrestling-fandom-says-wwe-treats-gay-characters-as-jokes/
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Jun 14, 2018 14:16
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Natural 20 posted:But none of this matters. vince: here's a counteroffer pal, you lose your debut match to bobby roode and we put you and the bucks in no way jose's conga line until creative has something for you. we'll still pay you the insane amount we offered btw.
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Jun 14, 2018 14:17
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I just had a thought When was the last time the secondary titles actually mattered? The last time I can remember the IC belt and US belt meaning anything is 2004 with Orton and Cena visibly being groomed to be main events with their lower belt runs Even Cena's "open challenge" run and Rollins current feel insignificant because they are both former world champs
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Jun 14, 2018 14:29
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Seams posted:vince: here's a counteroffer pal, you lose your debut match to bobby roode and we put you and the bucks in no way jose's conga line until creative has something for you. we'll still pay you the insane amount we offered btw. No counter offer, they sign the deal with creative control stips in place. On their first day they find out plans have changed, Bucks to be split up and given to separate brands, Kenny becomes Dana Brooke's hairstylist. They can either go with the new plans, or become Nevilled and have their contracts and pay frozen indefinitely.
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Jun 14, 2018 14:42
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I really only watch PPV events now... are crowds usually invested in Curt Hawkins' trying to break his ridiculously long losing streak? I like that storyline!
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Jun 14, 2018 15:13
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He is excellent at getting squashed.
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Jun 14, 2018 15:14
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https://twitter.com/daithihartery/status/1007219736193781760 BritWres gets unions, ZSJ to armbar WWE scabs
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Jun 14, 2018 15:23
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Happy Happyist posted:I really only watch PPV events now... are crowds usually invested in Curt Hawkins' trying to break his ridiculously long losing streak? I like that storyline! He's rarely on TV and only showed up recently because he was hitting 200. Usually he just jobs on Main Event and house shows
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Jun 14, 2018 15:45
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I'd feel bad for him but frankly still holding a wwe job for this long is pretty good for him
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Jun 14, 2018 16:11
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i always love when jobbers get storylines. its one of my favorite things, curt hawkins, heath slater and rhyno, the b team, these are all things i love.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:34
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Speaking of jobbers, I'm reading on the interwebs that James Ellsworth might possibly show up at MITB. I liked some of his shenanigans, but hopefully if he does make an appearance it won't involve the women's MITB again.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:43
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Frankly he's better off having the losing steak as a character trait and story versus just losing all the time with no attention.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:45
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ijii posted:Speaking of jobbers, I'm reading on the interwebs that James Ellsworth might possibly show up at MITB. I liked some of his shenanigans, but hopefully if he does make an appearance it won't involve the women's MITB again. I think it'll end up being a screwy finish to the title match to protect Asuka, or they'll go the other way and have him cost Carmella the title
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Jun 14, 2018 16:46
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WWE is unwatchable, the writing, booking, and match layouts are absolutely garbage. Thankfully there's much better alternatives out there. The question that remains: will be there be a point where the remaining fan base gets so fed up with the lack of quality they look to those alternatives or just give up on wrestling entirely?
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Jun 14, 2018 16:47
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Jenkem Delivery posted:WWE is unwatchable, the writing, booking, and match layouts are absolutely garbage. Thankfully there's much better alternatives out there. The question that remains: will be there be a point where the remaining fan base gets so fed up with the lack of quality they look to those alternatives or just give up on wrestling entirely? You forgot the F- grade camerawork that makes it literally unwatchable at times.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:48
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No. For some reason they will speculate and argue over guys like Omega and The Bucks coming to the WWE because they want to see them in lovely matches with Jinder instead of having amazing matches in other promotions.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:49
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Jenkem Delivery posted:WWE is unwatchable, the writing, booking, and match layouts are absolutely garbage. Thankfully there's much better alternatives out there. The question that remains: will be there be a point where the remaining fan base gets so fed up with the lack of quality they look to those alternatives or just give up on wrestling entirely? I am today cancelling wwe network for njpw world
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Jun 14, 2018 16:50
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Latest Observer newsletter reported that Charlotte will be taking time off after Money in the Bank to get some surgery done. She will be gone until around Summerslam time. So late July/early August.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:51
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Tato posted:No. For some reason they will speculate and argue over guys like Omega and The Bucks coming to the WWE because they want to see them in lovely matches with Jinder instead of having amazing matches in other promotions. I do want to see the Bucks suffer.
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Jun 14, 2018 17:15
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The global success of the bucks fascinates me since they are the indiest looking wrestlers ever
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Jun 14, 2018 17:18
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DarkstarIV posted:Latest Observer newsletter reported that Charlotte will be taking time off after Money in the Bank to get some surgery done. She will be gone until around Summerslam time. So late July/early August. Can you tell me what the surgery is for without offending everyone
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Jun 14, 2018 17:22
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Midnightghoul posted:Can you tell me what the surgery is for without offending everyone she's getting an inflection implant to sound less like an android
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Jun 14, 2018 17:24
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A woo transplant from her father
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Jun 14, 2018 17:25
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