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about time someone stood up to all the people in this thread claiming only men are ever abusive
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Jun 14, 2018 00:05
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tbf I should have quoted this post with the edited quote in itK. Waste posted:Because they're systematically taught the opposite.
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Jun 14, 2018 00:06
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There's no contradiction between "men are taught women are theirs for the taking" and "women can be abusive too". There, it's now stated for the record, maybe it won't come up again
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Jun 14, 2018 00:08
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esperterra posted:tbf I should have quoted this post with the edited quote in it I can only say that, from my very basic understanding of domestic violence, what you're saying is true and worth putting out there. I didn't mean to suggest that only straight men can be garbage, but as a (mostly) straight man, as someone who's benefited inordinately from the privileges that come with that, I kind of see my responsibility as being more to critique patriarchy and the centrality of heterosexuality and masculinity in it specifically. I didn't mean to minimize abuse and coercion that takes place in homosexual relationships, and I apologize for that.
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Jun 14, 2018 00:12
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K. Waste posted:I can only say that, from my very basic understanding of domestic violence, what you're saying is true and worth putting out there. I didn't mean to suggest that only straight men can be garbage, but as a (mostly) straight man, as someone who's benefited inordinately from the privileges that come with that, I kind of see my responsibility as being more to critique patriarchy and the centrality of heterosexuality and masculinity in it specifically. I didn't mean to minimize abuse and coercion that takes place in homosexual relationships, and I apologize for that. 100% fair and I also didn't mean to come off so snippy, either. This thread just rustles me as a woman, sometimes, by how easily people seem ready to imply anyone with a vagina is just a victim of men and that we're not all equally trash lol. We cool bae!
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Jun 14, 2018 00:21
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I’m not even trying to “I CANT SAY THIS AS A MAN” but as a man I just recognise how incredibly tone deaf it would be for me to say “hey lesbians bash women too!!!” Its probably just better for everyone for woman to stand up and bring that to light if those rates are true. It is interesting though I always just figured the violence rates were heavily skewed towards men (whether hetero or homosexual) being the perpetrators. Is there a big difference between domestic violence rates in men on women in relationships vs. men on men in relationships? Do women secretly want to be as lovely as men but only feel able to if they can physically overpower their partner, thus it comes out in lesbian relationships? People are the worst
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Jun 14, 2018 01:17
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teacup posted:I’m not even trying to “I CANT SAY THIS AS A MAN” but as a man I just recognise how incredibly tone deaf it would be for me to say “hey lesbians bash women too!!!” fwiw I am a lesbian. From what I rememember last time I was a bit more well read on it, rates were highest in bisexual women, then lesbians, then gay men, with het men would theoretically somewhere after or equal to lesbians in that. It's really hard to nail down tho as women are less likely to speak out about it, even less so than women in abusive hetero relationships. Men are also less likely to speak out about being abused by a woman as well so a lot of the stats and knowledge for abuse done by non hetero men for stuff like this aren't as accurate as one might want. When not on my phone I can peep some more specific stuff, I'm going off memory from a while back atm. Domestic abuse sucks and I wish we lived in a society where all genders and orientations were comfortable speaking out about it. e: oh hey there's a whole wiki page just for abuse in lesbian relationships lmao https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_lesbian_relationships not sure how up to date any of these sources are. and diff ones will have diff results ofc esperterra fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 01:47
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Alhazred posted:Using threats (he said that if they wanted work they had to have sex with him) to obtain consent is still illegal. So he wouldn't have been fine. gently caress, missed that. That's what i get for skimming the article. Which leads me to wonder where those 'casting sites' lie on this scale. There's a website called 'casting couch X' and its whole gimmick is young women coming in who'll do anything for the part. Sometimes its women who are established porn stars or went on to be that, but plenty of others never appear on any other sites. K. Waste posted:I can only say that, from my very basic understanding of domestic violence, what you're saying is true and worth putting out there. I didn't mean to suggest that only straight men can be garbage, but as a (mostly) straight man, as someone who's benefited inordinately from the privileges that come with that, I kind of see my responsibility as being more to critique patriarchy and the centrality of heterosexuality and masculinity in it specifically. I didn't mean to minimize abuse and coercion that takes place in homosexual relationships, and I apologize for that. You didn't suggest it at all, no one did. Esperterra is arguing with people who don't exist in this thread.
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Jun 14, 2018 01:52
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esperterra posted:fwiw I am a lesbian. Yeah I gotta admit in general the more this stuff comes out (me too / times up / not just Hollywood stuff) the more I’m realising that people are poo poo and we don’t talk enough about it. Even during the original me too stuff my wife talked about how she was grabbed at a club when she was younger, I knew her at that time and we are married and I had no idea. My sister as well, like I was just clueless. And id like to think I care about this stuff. It needs to be like a huge cultural change in how we talk about it
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Jun 14, 2018 04:00
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/entertainment/sylvester-stallone-investigation/index.html
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Jun 14, 2018 04:51
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chitoryu12 posted:https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/entertainment/sylvester-stallone-investigation/index.html They got all the way to the end of the story before mentioning that he's a famous actor who's still busily working at age 71. Usually that would be the opening line. good for them
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Jun 14, 2018 06:48
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Straight men are definitely taught almost entirely terrible and bad lessons about sex and relationships by media, peers and most social institutions in general since birth. Doesn't mean that people of other genders and orientations can't have problems with it, though there's probably not as much study and insight into other angles of things. It's probably at least partly related to the above problems in a lot of cases, at a guess. Also likely doesn't help with queer people being more vulnerable all round.
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Jun 14, 2018 10:14
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Yeah, I don't mean to undermine the hosed up ideals many boys get instilled with when it comes to women. Those societal gender roles play a big part in why men are often at (or at least perceived to be at) the forefront of issues like abuse or sexual assault, but they also unfortunately play a big part in people being quiet about other types of abuse, because we're all so programmed to think it's the big strong men that are the perpetrators of such violence, so there's those thoughts in the backs of people's minds that nobody will believe them if they say it wasn't a man this time, or if it was a man who was abused by a woman, etc. I know I can get p heated in this thread, it's about a topic I think most people can and prob should get pretty heated about. But I don't mean to paint a picture that I think it's a thread full of people who only think men can be poo poo or only want to focus on men being poo poo. When we're on topic most of the stories that come up are about men and I get that. It's just some of the derails we head into over the course of this thing I do see generalizations creep out, either unintentionally or intentionally, and it gets under my skin in a special way I can't shake. I just want to say I don't mean to demean or attack the opinions of any posters in this thread. I can just get salty when it comes to expressing my own.
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Jun 14, 2018 10:25
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Straight men are definitely taught almost entirely terrible and bad lessons about sex and relationships by media, peers and most social institutions in general since birth. As to the wider conversation, if someone wants to focus on what men do wrong or what they're taught wrong that's one thing, but to take the statement quote:Why do people need to be educated not to trick or force people to do stuff quote:Why do [straight men] need to be educated not to trick or force people to do stuff Peaceful Anarchy fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 20:48
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Not to be an rear end or anything, but can we make this thread about the culture of hollywood again? This is... Not a great derail. Though it's somewhat heartening that we're not getting daily updates on the fact that artists we adore are secret sex pests, ugh.
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Jun 14, 2018 21:16
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Agreed and agreed!
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Jun 14, 2018 21:40
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the escape goat posted:Not to be an rear end or anything, but can we make this thread about the culture of hollywood again? This is... Not a great derail. The one for Will was kinda lovely for me because I've been listening to him for years and seeing him in concert whenever he was in town. In retrospect, it turns out some of his most hardcore lyrics were about reality rather than fantasy. It also seems like it started almost a year ago and just nobody noticed. He was touring with Motionless in White and suddenly abandoned it mid-tour, driving back home to Seattle and claiming that he was tired of touring, he'd spent most of his adult life on the road in bands, and he wanted to go home and be with his family and work his record business. It seemed like a really lovely yet understandable choice and he started getting other electronic artists onto his record label. Artists like Aesthetic Perfection were having him guest on their poo poo and it seemed like he was really doing a solid for independent artists trying to break into the business. Now reviewing the evidence that's come out, it looks like his actual motivation for skipping town without notice was the first allegations starting to surface, and his screen printing business was just a legal cover for his pimping. A former employee even says he was asked to fake record sale numbers to further cover his illegal income.
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Jun 14, 2018 22:18
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Chloe Dykstra posted an essay about emotional and sexual abuse while in a relationship with a fairly well-known Hollywood person. She doesn't name him but it's super incredibly obvious if you even follow nerd poo poo a little bit, and he's still growing in stature in Hollywood so his power-tripping has probably only gotten worse since the two broke up. This is actually a great intersection between the power politics of relationships in Hollywood (she talks about him calling people to blacklist her and only hanging out with industry people or wanting to date other actresses) and the toxic relationship poo poo that people everywhere have to deal with (never letting her go out, not letting her have male friends, pressuring her into having sex when she didn't want to). She also has a great paragraph about the people who may disbelieve her or have no pity because it was a relationship she could have gotten out of: quote:And that’s the big question, isn’t it? If this person treated you so badly why did you stay?
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Jun 15, 2018 10:33
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DC Murderverse posted:Chloe Dykstra posted an essay about emotional and sexual abuse while in a relationship with a fairly well-known Hollywood person. She doesn't name him but it's super incredibly obvious if you even follow nerd poo poo a little bit, and he's still growing in stature in Hollywood so his power-tripping has probably only gotten worse since the two broke up. Sigh, just say who it is, I promise I won't tell
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Jun 15, 2018 10:42
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DC Murderverse posted:Chloe Dykstra posted an essay about emotional and sexual abuse while in a relationship with a fairly well-known Hollywood person. She doesn't name him but it's super incredibly obvious if you even follow nerd poo poo a little bit, and he's still growing in stature in Hollywood so his power-tripping has probably only gotten worse since the two broke up. For people who aren't into nerd poo poo, it's probably about Chris Hardwick. gently caress being coy. Edit: Just realized that the nerd backlash against her is going to be harsh  God I hope she has a really great support network. gently caress that guy.
GrandpaPants fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 10:43
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Chris Hardwick has always seemed like a oval office to me.
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Jun 15, 2018 11:04
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chloe has been a target of harassers for a very long time. i imagine she can handle whatever fusillade will come of calling out the bad comedian people still like for some reason
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Jun 15, 2018 11:27
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Was the 'long term girlfriend' Janet Varney, or was there someone else in between?
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Jun 15, 2018 11:46
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Chris Hardwick is currently trending on Twitter.
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Jun 15, 2018 12:16
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GrandpaPants posted:For people who aren't into nerd poo poo, it's probably about Chris Hardwick. gently caress being coy. Weirdly it's been fairly supportive on Reddit so far, at least from what I saw. No doubt there are people trying to support him or 'asking questions' but I'd like to think the support outweighs the backlash.
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Jun 15, 2018 15:59
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Who's the woman that Chloe mentioned?
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Jun 15, 2018 16:02
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Don't worry Hollywood, you're not alone: the UK just ruled that sticking a camera up a woman's skirt without her consent is not a crime
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Jun 15, 2018 16:03
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Outside of the Nerdist Reddits Hardwick isn’t very popular there for a number of reasons. A lot of it to do with gate keeping and general overexposure.
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Jun 15, 2018 16:07
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GrandpaPants posted:Who's the woman that Chloe mentioned? Speculation is Felica Day. Apparently Wheaton is a giant shitstain as well According to people speaking up for Chloe. Crackbone fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 16:15
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Gotta say, “people suffering from mental illness can’t consent to the sex they want/crave” is perhaps the single hottest take I’ve read in this thread and as a someone whose mental health is both a big part of my life and the lives of my partners please go gently caress yourself until parts start to fall off.
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Jun 15, 2018 16:27
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Crackbone posted:Speculation is Felica Day. I mean, it could be that Day/Wheaton didn't know the true nature of Chris and Chloe's relationship. I guess we'll see. Probably gonna be a lot of statements going out today about this.
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Jun 15, 2018 16:28
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Not Operator posted:Was the 'long term girlfriend' Janet Varney, or was there someone else in between?
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Jun 15, 2018 17:23
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Bust Rodd posted:Gotta say, “people suffering from mental illness can’t consent to the sex they want/crave” is perhaps the single hottest take I’ve read in this thread and as a someone whose mental health is both a big part of my life and the lives of my partners please go gently caress yourself until parts start to fall off. Should mentally ill people attempting to self-harm be capable of consenting to harmful sexual practices as a way of fulfilling their desires for pain and injury? Should mentally ill people be able to consent to a relationship in which they enslave themselves to a "master" who has free reign to physically hurt them and create a dependent relationship? We wouldn't let someone who's been drugged, drunk, or mentally disabled do that because they're in an altered state of mind. What makes a chemical imbalance in their brain different? And what's the moral difference between someone who intentionally gets someone drunk to convince them to have sex and someone who seeks out bipolar people with PTSD to convince them to engage in physically dangerous sexual practices?
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Jun 15, 2018 17:23
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chitoryu12 posted:We wouldn't let someone who's been drugged, drunk, or mentally disabled do that because they're in an altered state of mind. What makes a chemical imbalance in their brain different? I think, hope, the point being made is that we don't actually put a blanket ban on consent for people who use drugs, drink, have mental disabilities or mental illnesses, etc. Instead, there's a factual investigation as to consent based on the specific details of the relationship and events. That said, I wasn't reading "people suffering from mental illness can’t consent" as a blanket statement in any of your previous comments that Rodd is presumably responding to. And man does the case you mentioned seem like one that needs some vigorous factual investigation by the courts. Sounds really hosed up.
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Jun 15, 2018 17:48
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Quote-Unquote posted:Don't worry Hollywood, you're not alone: the UK just ruled that sticking a camera up a woman's skirt without her consent is not a crime Not so fast: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/upskirting-bill-law-blocked-criminal-offence-christopher-chope-tory-mp-a8400686.html
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Jun 15, 2018 18:09
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Sir Kodiak posted:I think, hope, the point being made is that we don't actually put a blanket ban on consent for people who use drugs, drink, have mental disabilities or mental illnesses, etc. Instead, there's a factual investigation as to consent based on the specific details of the relationship and events. That said, I wasn't reading "people suffering from mental illness can’t consent" as a blanket statement in any of your previous comments that Rodd is presumably responding to. Yeah, you can't really put a blanket ban on consent with zero tolerance. Otherwise, what happens if two people get drunk and have sex, or two mentally ill people have sex? Did they rape each other? How could you even prosecute that? But what you can look at is signs of one person taking advantage of another's altered mental state. According to accounts from the victims, they suffered from depression, bipolar disorder, anxiety, possibly past traumas, etc. William identified these people, often encouraged them to drink and do drugs while he remained sober (he suffered from severe drug addiction in his youth and consumes nothing but cigarettes and caffeine now), and convinced them to have hardcore and painful-to-damaging BDSM sex. He sought out girls whose mental illness led to them making self-destructive decisions or seeking validation to the extent that they would easily be manipulated into a permanent dom/sub relationship, then pimped them for cash. He technically has written records of consent, but the consent came from girls who were in an altered mental state due to their illness and may have felt like they had to serve him and continue receiving attention and validation from him even if it meant being taken to extremes they weren't prepared for. One victim specified that even though he never outright raped her, the violence of his play sessions made her too terrified to refuse him. Where my personal life comes into it is that my ex reminds me a lot of these girls, and it gives me some more insight that a person who hasn't been in a relationship with a person like this wouldn't have. The symptoms of borderline personality disorder include an exaggerated fear of abandonment and over-the-top emotional reactions to everything, so she actively seeks out permanent kink relationships like DD/LG because she craves the attention. I think part of it is because her incredibly abusive childhood left her seeking a sort of "do-over" where she could be a kid again, cared for and having no real responsibilities beyond pleasing her dominant. She was also driven to self-harm and did so occasionally when we were together, so the desire for pain during sex was likely part of her general desire for pain. When we were together, I felt extremely uncomfortable with her desires for BDSM like this because I knew about her past and her mental illness, and I felt like her desires were partially or even mostly driven by her trauma and disorders. What William did was make the other decision: take advantage of someone like that to provide him with a target for abuse, one that technically provided consent but really shouldn't have been able to give it.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:41
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GrandpaPants posted:Not so fast: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/upskirting-bill-law-blocked-criminal-offence-christopher-chope-tory-mp-a8400686.html quote:The Thatcherite MP was first elected in 1983 and has previously voted against equal marriage, an amnesty of men convicted for homosexual acts, filibustered a bill to make revenge evictions an offence and called for the minimum wage to be abolished.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:43
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GrandpaPants posted:Who's the woman that Chloe mentioned? Someone else who is familiar with the people and situation mentioned it was someone named Michelle Morrow. No clue who that is, don't know if it's 100 percent accurate.
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Jun 15, 2018 21:06
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Well, never watching or listening to anything with Chris ever again.
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Jun 15, 2018 23:16
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Awww poo poo, son: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nerdist-removes-chris-hardwick-references-site-alleged-abuse-claim-1120557 quote:"Chris Hardwick had no operational involvement with Nerdist for the two years preceding the expiration of his contract in December 2017. He no longer has any affiliation with Legendary Digital Networks. The company has removed all reference to Mr. Hardwick even as the original Founder of Nerdist pending further investigation," a Legendary spokesperson said in statement on Friday.
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Jun 15, 2018 23:18
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