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Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖
Ah yes, the autodoc. "Auto" in this case meaning "manual, and requiring intense amounts of player skill and commitment".

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goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Motherfucker posted:

There is no forum you can actually speak with the devs on, they stay off the cataclysm discord.

This is the one good thing about the CDDA community, they use IRC and not some idiot Slack gaming clone. :colbert:

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Marenghi posted:

Who is that Kevin guy and why does he seem to hold all the power with making commits.
he owns the repository.

we tried getting something organized in here last year at some point but the people that had time had no focus and the people that had focus had no time, so it wasn't a great situation for anyone.

esquilax
Jan 3, 2003

The best thing that goons could actually accomplish (since it would be one sitting) would be to identify the particular best experimental version to recommend.

I played again a few weeks ago after like a year off and here's the things I noticed that changed my experience at all.
  • Towns have names now. This is actually a really good change.
  • CBMs need painkillers. Annoying and doesn't really add any fun - using enough for it to work might cause you to OD
  • Archery seems better, and aiming with guns seems more important than before. Good change on the balance I would say.
  • Turrets seem a lot more deadly, even when armored.
  • The tile set and minimap have been improved. I used to be ASCII only but now I think I prefer the tiles.
  • Vitamin needs sounded really annoying, but the integrated mod list made it super easy to turn off. So can't really comment.
  • The primary drive of the game still seems to be about finding the right books to level your crafting skills.
  • There's a lot more farming and brewing stuff in there but I avoided it because it seemed pointless.

esquilax fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jun 15, 2018

Slime
Jan 3, 2007
This game needs to be MORE REALISTIC I say!

*shovels trees into his mouth to power the fusion blaster he replaced his arm with*

hmm yes this is a game about realism

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
the nutritional need stuff is pretty much entirely ignorable. the only thing it changes is if you eat nothing but bread or whatever you'll eventually, like a season down the line, suffer the consequences. and even then if you just eat a vitamin once every few days (when you happen to see the bottle in your inventory) you can eat only bread and be fine. i get the distinct impression that it was added after someone read The Martian and said to themselves "hm, yes, we should model Mark Watney's diet of only potatoes and multivitamins"

any kind of basebuilding, including farming and brewing, is still completely pointless since with static spawns you can make an area 100% safe with a relative minimum of effort by just killing everything around, and with dynamic spawns any fortifications you make are completely pointless because the game does not respect walls when making dynamic hordes. i suppose you could set up a farming operation and just run the loop of eat -> smash the wait key -> eat -> smash wait -> harvest -> eat and you would...win, i guess? by being completely self sufficient??

it's loving stupid

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
With years of reflection I can really only recommend to abandon ship and play Unreal World or Caves of Qud for your survival or JC Denton the Mutant needs.

Maybe mod a couple interesting things du jour into the last stable if someone is still desperate to glue a knife to a pole, karate the hell out of a horde of zombies, build a killdozer with a blacksmith rig to forge a katana, and then steal all the bionics from a science lab. But you can do all that once if you've done it before and be satisfied for another couple years. Nothing cobbled in the dailies will fix that longevity problem because every contributor is the programmer version of Don Quixote and the replayability is an issue deep in the bones of the design that friendly NPCs, gun porn, and survivalist nutrition aren't about to solve.

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

goatsestretchgoals posted:

This is the one good thing about the CDDA community, they use IRC and not some idiot Slack gaming clone. :colbert:

:chloe:

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging
The only thing that keeps drawing me back to try (and then quickly give up on) C:DDA again from time to time is the vehicle system. Honestly wish there were some way to just rip that out and build a Mad Max roguelike around it.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖
I'm in it for the hoarding, the gradual increase in competency/utility that comes from it, and the basic gameplay loop of building up a home base and making raids to surrounding areas, each time returning with more and more supplies I'll probably never use.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
I agree the increasing badassitude is a wonderful gameplay cycle, I really just want some way to win. I don’t care what that looks like per se - if it means establishing a survivor enclave somewhere, fine. If it means breaching a science lab and doing their resonance cascade to Xen, fine. If it means nuking yourself to sterilize the area after a grueling crawl through an infested silo, great! Just give me something to work toward because no matter what I do at this point I can only see the powerful equilibrium rapidly approaching and I talk myself out of playing even before I start.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe
Do all of them. The game style would fit having multiple different "endgames" that you could pursue based on what you found most interesting. No reason for them to be exclusive either - after finishing one you can consider the game "won" but it could easily just dump you back into the game world to keep playing and you'd be free to go after one of the other remaining goals.

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you
It's strange they haven't done much with the plot in regards to the survivor outpost. Couple of missions for them and that's it. Seems a good place to start in creating end game content.

Every single developer just seems interested in tedious balance changes.

I haven't played this since the start of the year and I probably won't again, it's clear the development is antipathy to fun and I doubt it will ever change.

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you
The same guy is adding a request to nerf the forked spear the same way.

quote:

The past change in the knifespear caused a violent reaction, and therefore, changing all the weapons IMMEDIATELY, would inevitably cause an even more negative reaction. So I'll slowly move the Overton window in that direction until we can fix all of the "earlygame spearkite problem" weapons with FRAGILE_MELEE.

quote:

SHOW_NO_MERCY, kevin!

The development attracts such weirdos.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging
Problem: absolutely everybody hates that last change. It is universally despised by the playerbase because it makes the game less fun.

Solution: as the change is self-evidently a good one, it is obviously the players who are wrong and in need of correction. Begin conditioning the players to accept and appreciate the change.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:

Oh my loving god. :cripes:

Suspect Bucket
Jan 15, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR
So what's the most stable, least bullshit branch/release advisable for casual playing while watching youtube?

acidia
Oct 31, 2012
I don't pretend to know what's going on with Kevin, but holy crap are parts of the community toxic. I like playing around with little additions from time to time and when I look at the forums I don't see why anyone would want to be in charge of development. Every small change people don't like is the loving worst thing EVER, EVERYTHING IS RUINED! Its like the most outspoken elements of the community are hipsters that feel everyone should hold their opinion in high regard and justify everything to them even though they have never touched a line of code.

I've got my own gripes (I just want a simple currency and fixed prices like any other game so I can make shopkeepers/quests work without the proposed crazy needs matrix to determine arbitrary barter values) but I 100% don't know another person who should fill in for the dude.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖
I'm exactly 342 builds behind. After all the talk in this thread though, I kinda don't even want to update.
Is there a condensed list of major changes over time? I don't care about reading through 10k version notes but an overview of significant changes (if any) in the last 4 months might be nice to have so I can make an informed decision.
If not, I'll probably just stick with it.

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you
Unfortunately I don't think there's an easy change log to read through. Going by the commits seems the only way.

Apparently they unfucked the ranged accuracy which seems to have made bows viable again.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:

Marenghi posted:

Unfortunately I don't think there's an easy change log to read through. Going by the commits seems the only way.

Apparently they unfucked the ranged accuracy which seems to have made bows viable again.

Is it actually possible to hit a moose four car-lengths away with a rifle?

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you
The minimum dispersion is 0 now instead of 45, so apparently a good rifle can shoot across the map.

I'd get whatever version has that but before they added some of the new unfun additions if possible like the new autodoc for CBM installation and apparently there's a new creature will spawn if you leave around rotting food and corpses.

I brought my Drake
Jul 10, 2014

These high-G injections have some serious side effects after pulling so many jumps.

Angry Diplomat posted:

The only thing that keeps drawing me back to try (and then quickly give up on) C:DDA again from time to time is the vehicle system. Honestly wish there were some way to just rip that out and build a Mad Max roguelike around it.

How hard would it be to change the zombie stuff in the game to dystopian or post-apocalyptic? And actually make an ending, even just a retrieve-the-macguffin roguelike ending?

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.
*nerfs shotgun range back to seven tiles and dunks their damage in the dumpster

*The pneumatic assault rifle still exists and can fire pebbles, actual loving rock fragments 28 tiles for very real damage.


I'm a developer :downs:

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:

queserasera posted:

How hard would it be to change the zombie stuff in the game to dystopian or post-apocalyptic? And actually make an ending, even just a retrieve-the-macguffin roguelike ending?

The critter AI is pretty poo poo if you want a human enemy more intelligent than a Borderlands psycho, but a reskin and removal of lovely content is possible. It's just a lot of bloody hard work and while we had a burst of energy in identifying what makes the game good and what a decent direction to take it would be, we've yet to have someone who's got some decent C++ chops step up to manage Goon Days Ahead Mk. II. :shrug:

I brought my Drake
Jul 10, 2014

These high-G injections have some serious side effects after pulling so many jumps.

Anticheese posted:

The critter AI is pretty poo poo if you want a human enemy more intelligent than a Borderlands psycho, but a reskin and removal of lovely content is possible. It's just a lot of bloody hard work and while we had a burst of energy in identifying what makes the game good and what a decent direction to take it would be, we've yet to have someone who's got some decent C++ chops step up to manage Goon Days Ahead Mk. II. :shrug:

Like coolguye said, people have the ability or time but not both. I wish I had the money to pay a coder. Copy I got. Time I got. C++ I ain't got. :downs:

That said it's fun to turn off zombie spawns, crank NPC gen up, and try to survive a year. I am more afraid of a friendly NPC with a flamethrower than just about anything else in the game.

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Yeah, at this rate the best you can hope for is mods to turn the more annoying stuff off.

Although I can't remember the last time I used a knife spear. It's good, but you don't need the one tile range to kite if you know your terrain.

I'm ambivalent about the auto doc. Usually by the time your skilled up enough to install a lot of cbm's you're good to go take a hospital so not much changes.

Kevin is still pretty much the worst person ever though. That will never change.

edit: Not sure why they're going for autodoc as more realistic, Cata already had the CBM's being the full installation package in the lore. So it's not realistic as much as it is a lore change?

Killer-of-Lawyers fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jun 16, 2018

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you
CBMs were supposed to be futuristic implants fully installable as you say, but at some point Kevin started to think of them as manual surgery the player performs so requiring pain killers. Now they require an autodoc which means installing a single easy CBM becomes a bit more difficult, not just something you can do at your base after finishing reading up you electronics and having a cigarette.

There's also the fact the Autodoc is supposed to put you to sleep for the operation. I'd be pissed if I thought I had cleared the area and woke up from the autodoc to a brute chewing on my head.

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Yeah, it's a dumb lore change because it suits Grande's vision. Also the spear thing is spearheaded by some russian who's got some crazy political description on git who registered on the very day he started making pulls to make spears more fragile and weaker, while babbling about the overton window.

Jesus christ I hate 2018.

Seems like mods to circumvent the changes are already being pre-emptivly made.

I hope they make a big one for the cybernetics. I don't mind cybernetics being hard, but the guy who made the changes seems like he'd get pretty butt hurt about them being circumvented, and is already talking about how he wants to make it more difficult, because he apparently hates gameplay in a game.

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


My making it more tedious means I'm superior for putting up with it when others quit. Realism isn't fun! :smuggo:

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Yeah. The thing I don't understand is that there are a ton of very fun but spergy survival sandboxes out there that somehow manage to avoid that sort of fan. I wish cata could do the same, but it's hard when your repository is run by a guy who's that kind of type to start with.

Oh well. Maybe we'll get some other game with cool car building at some point in a decade or so.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves
I haven't played this game in ages, but the Wiki appears to be dead and the Devs twitter has been suspended?

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
http://cddawiki.chezzo.com/cdda_wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Wiki looks up for me.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

Yeah. The thing I don't understand is that there are a ton of very fun but spergy survival sandboxes out there that somehow manage to avoid that sort of fan.
As long as I'm looking, any recommendations on that line? :spergin:

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Unrealworld is the gold standard. Not scifi, and not perfectly realistic, but its fun. Suffers from a lack of end game like most sandboxes.

Mr. Pool
Jul 10, 2001
the autodoc thing isn't in yet, and any and all item changes are super easy to modify, along with everything else in the data/json folder. Thats the best part of Cata imo, even a complete layman like myself can mod the game to suit my needs. I've been playing with rebalanced guns and several new martial arts for awhile. I just paste in my modded jsons after I update. Pretty easy

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

Mr. Pool posted:

the autodoc thing isn't in yet, and any and all item changes are super easy to modify, along with everything else in the data/json folder. Thats the best part of Cata imo, even a complete layman like myself can mod the game to suit my needs. I've been playing with rebalanced guns and several new martial arts for awhile. I just paste in my modded jsons after I update. Pretty easy

counterpoint, maybe having to fend off autists trying to make the game actively worse dosn't appeal to everyone and saying 'its pretty good if you just make sure to follow these simple but ever expanding list of steps to make sure some total fuckwad stranger dosn't poo poo all over things' means its actually not good.

Mr. Pool
Jul 10, 2001

Motherfucker posted:

counterpoint, maybe having to fend off autists trying to make the game actively worse dosn't appeal to everyone and saying 'its pretty good if you just make sure to follow these simple but ever expanding list of steps to make sure some total fuckwad stranger dosn't poo poo all over things' means its actually not good.

You don't have to use the most recent updates if you think they're bad

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

Mr. Pool posted:

You don't have to use the most recent updates if you think they're bad

you don't have to eat my poo poo if you don't want too, but all future versions of your food will come with it from now on.

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Mr. Pool
Jul 10, 2001

Motherfucker posted:

you don't have to eat my poo poo if you don't want too, but all future versions of your food will come with it from now on.

If you want to eat poop you can mod that in as well

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