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I'm gonna be honest, I was afraid the manga was just gonna reel this back and try to pretend the abuse thing didn't happen. Like when the author went "Yea, made Bakugou way harsher than I should've in chapter 1. Moving on, didn't happen" in an interview. The fact that this is an issue being tackled is already better than I was hoping for. I'm gonna remain optimistic that they don't completely gently caress this up and that the idea they are going for is that Endeavor is trying to confront the fuckups he made and become a better man. I don't know how they plan on doing that and whether the execution is gonna be good though, but yeah.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:21
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Yeah the kid's sentiment I think makes me cautiously optimistic. Endeavor's crimes haven't been retconned out or totally forgotten.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:22
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One of my friends happened to really like Bakugo because of how he was introduced. His brazen demeanor really worked for her.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:40
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I think people have rightful fears over this considering at least two manga in the past two years had abusive parental figures the manga turned around and went "Thank you for scarring me for life." with their characters, which is... yeah, no. I think the important thing with MHA is it's never tried to portray what Endeavor did as a good thing, the notable point for me being that, when seeing All Might in his true state and the point where his foundations start shaking, he does think of Todoroki and Rei, and specifically in the sense of "The things I've done." So at the very least, from Endeavor's own internal perspective, he thinks the things he's done are not good things. That's the reason I have hopes that MHA wont pull an Assassin Classroom, because from Endeavor's own internal perspective, he knows he was a rat bastard. If he didn't his mind wouldn't go to something like this. And honestly the fact that his actions were spurred on, not from a desire to see his son succeed, but as said here, the despair of his own failings is one of those ridiculously human motivations that's all too real. So at the very least even from the perspective of the perpetrator, it's portrayed as a morally wrong abusive action.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:44
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Man, I knew the forgiveness arc was gonna happen but it still annoys me.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:44
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So how do these "the abusive parent actually did nothing wrong" stories go over in Japan? They seem pretty universally hated here, but what does the target audience think of them?
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Jun 15, 2018 18:50
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I don't mind a forgiveness arc, but I think we all know it won't be the satisfying one it really should be.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:55
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Rhonne posted:So how do these "the abusive parent actually did nothing wrong" stories go over in Japan? They seem pretty universally hated here, but what does the target audience think of them? I actually have no idea. In the end we don't even know if that's the author's personal desires or Shonen Jump telling them to do it. Culturally it's sadly a very real thing over there, in may abusive ways. Not that "Parents forcing their children to succeed by basically dictating their lives" is exclusively a Japanese concept, but the sheer level of micromanagment it can devolve in to is... yeah. Then again, we have to remember Shonen Jump is still a magazine primarily read by its target audience, children. Some of them don't really have the ability to put a nuanced spin on abuse like that. For all I know they go over swimmingly because of how many kids are abused "For their own good"
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Jun 15, 2018 18:56
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Rhonne posted:So how do these "the abusive parent actually did nothing wrong" stories go over in Japan? They seem pretty universally hated here, but what does the target audience think of them? think of the family/group It's pretty common really. Assassination Classroom, Souma, and other series have had really awful examples of this.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:58
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Keep in mind. In universe these characters have had a lot of time to deal with Endeavors bullshit. And clearly not everyone is ready to forgive or even take the first steps towards forgiving him. I truly feel Horikoshi can do this subplot justice and this arc doesn't end with the Todoroki family giving each other a big group hug. That's never going to be in the cards. Can we at least keep the bitching about this to a minimum until it's over? I mean go all out on the guy if this does end up being handled poorly. But up to now I think Horikoshi deserves a chance to tell this story. Mulderman fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 19:01
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Mulderman posted:Keep in mind. In universe these characters have had a lot of time to deal with Endeavors bullshit.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:05
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Rhonne posted:So how do these "the abusive parent actually did nothing wrong" stories go over in Japan? They seem pretty universally hated here, but what does the target audience think of them? Well, for starters, they probably wouldn't keep doing it if Japan thought it was disgusting. Anyway, Japan has... kind of insane ideas regarding similar concepts. So yeah.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:05
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Japan is the kind of place where you can have a story about a kid getting bullied and the moral is the bully was right cause the kid was standing out too much. A lot of shonen is structured the way it is to escape that kind of mentality, but it still makes its way into media.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:21
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Count me as another person whose reaction each week is: "No, gently caress Endeavor." People keep pointing out that it is still possible for him to earn forgiveness but the fact is that Endeavor has not earned a single loving thing yet. Even this chapter pointed out that he hasn't apologised at all for what he did to anyone. I can only hope this arc ends with Endeavor expecting something to change with his big win but when he goes home Shoto just flips him off and walks away and he's forced to accept that he's destroyed that relationship forever. I think a thing that certainly exacerbates this for me is that everywhere except on this site I see loads of people 100% on board with the forgiveness arc and gushing over how cool Endeavor is and it really bothers me. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 19:23
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Random movie thought: it's hosed up that they're going to science island and no one invited Hatsume.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:38
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Rhonne posted:Random movie thought: it's hosed up that they're going to science island and no one invited Hatsume. She couldn't find a babysitter.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:41
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You're all going really buck wild given that the text hasn't at any point told us 'hey forgive Endeavor' The text has said 'Endeavor has realized he was a huge piece of poo poo' and we can see he's trying to figure out how to atone. I can't stress enough that this has all the hallmarks of an atonement story, not a redemption story. Those are two significantly different portrayals. Someone can atone without ever having his acts accepted as having been good, or even being forgiven by the people he's hurt.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:44
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Dr Subterfuge posted:Japan is the kind of place where you can have a story about a kid getting bullied and the moral is the bully was right cause the kid was standing out too much. A lot of shonen is structured the way it is to escape that kind of mentality, but it still makes its way into media. Hana Yori Dango specifically was about a bunch of rich bullies that were also the dreamy love interests even while they were currently having the main character blacklisted from interaction with anyone else in the school but them. I remember reading the author's notes after the first few chapters where she received a bunch of letters for bullied kids about how they appreciated reading about something like what happened to them in a comic. Then like a few chapters later the bullies were shown to actually be great guys once you got to know them (while they didn't actually change much whatsoever) which seemed like it missed the point entirely of those kids' experiences. I really don't get it. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 19:45
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Fabricated posted:Don't want to be disharmonious, don't want to rock the boat. The aggrieved and perpetrator just need to BOTH apologize and move on because it would be awkward and we can't have that Ask any Asian kid how these things go over and it's more or less culturally the same. Japan is the more extreme example
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Jun 15, 2018 19:46
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Eej posted:Ask any Asian kid how these things go over and it's more or less culturally the same. Japan is the more extreme example My ex was like that, unfortunately she was a case where she soaked up the abuse and then in turn used it on others. Emotionally very controlling and manipulative and toxic. And that's another sad fact of life, abuse victims becoming abusers.
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Jun 15, 2018 20:01
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Although something interesting that was pointed out is that the public doesn't know about the things Endeavor has done It would be a huge blow to the Hero Community and a big win for the Villain Alliance if word got out that the current No. 1 Hero was/is a huge piece of poo poo in his home life
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Jun 15, 2018 20:10
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I wonder how Dabi is going to play into all this.
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Jun 15, 2018 20:15
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Waffleman_ posted:Endeavor sucks, and I want him to go away so we can have more casual Pussycats and maybe the rabbit girl. Endeavor sucks because he isn't a member of Class A or Class B and those are the characters who should be on the page.
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Jun 15, 2018 20:15
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Rhonne posted:I wonder how
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Jun 15, 2018 20:28
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Hawks is going to die because he flew too close to the
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Jun 15, 2018 20:32
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Rhonne posted:Hawks is going to die because he flew too close to the La la la I can't hear you la la la
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Jun 15, 2018 20:34
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Rhonne posted:Hawks is going to die because he flew too close to the Whoa, if that really happened wouldn't it really shatter hero society into a billion pieces?
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Jun 15, 2018 20:35
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A Single Sphink posted:She couldn't find a babysitter. she shouldn't be having all these babies while she's still in hero high school anyway
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Jun 15, 2018 20:57
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ChronoReverse posted:Whoa, if that really happened wouldn't it really shatter hero society into a billion pieces? The top three heroes would all be rendered unable to do their duties out of extended absence, death, and public shame/jail, and I don't think there's ever been an instance in canon of a hero killing another hero to set a precedent. Your call.
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Jun 15, 2018 21:45
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Endeavour doesn’t need to earn forgiveness in this arc. Him being a lovely person, an awful role model and unable to fill the shoes of the symbol of peace and justice left by all might can be part of the story.
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Jun 15, 2018 22:09
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Rhonne posted:Hawks is going to die because he flew too close to the He's going to live because his relationship with Endeavor has become the most likeable part of the dude, and Endeavor kinda needs that. Especially since what i'm getting from the latest chapter is that the whole point of his bad dad history is not for him to apologise to his family for being terrible, but that Rei is ready to forgive him and he just needs to forgive himself first. And that's like one of the worst ways to play that probably.
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Jun 15, 2018 22:22
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Fabricated posted:Don't want to be disharmonious, don't want to rock the boat. The aggrieved and perpetrator just need to BOTH apologize and move on because it would be awkward and we can't have that gently caress that was lovely in assassination classroom
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Jun 15, 2018 22:23
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SyntheticPolygon posted:He's going to live because his relationship with Endeavor has become the most likeable part of the dude, and Endeavor kinda needs that. Especially since what i'm getting from the latest chapter is that the whole point of his bad dad history is not for him to apologise to his family for being terrible, but that Rei is ready to forgive him and he just needs to forgive himself first. And that's like one of the worst ways to play that probably. Uhh Rei is not ready. She seems to understand that Endeavor is trying to atone. But is still too scared to meet with him face to face yet. But it appears he has visited her multiple times and talked to her already.
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Jun 15, 2018 22:30
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What's the significance behind the ranking system? I thought it was just a popularity poll, but do the heroes get more money or something if they're higher ranked?
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Jun 15, 2018 22:31
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Everything about this arc so far seems tailor made to result in Endeavour getting ample comeuppance down the line so I would maybe sit on these thoughts for a while. It’s easy to see him getting humiliated and ultimately depowered.
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Jun 15, 2018 22:36
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TheKingofSprings posted:Everything about this arc so far seems tailor made to result in Endeavour getting ample comeuppance down the line so I would maybe sit on these thoughts for a while. Yeah, I don't really see Endeavor winning this fight. Or if he does, it's a really hollow victory.
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Jun 15, 2018 22:41
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I'm starting to think that's we're slowly approaching the threatened "hero society collapses entirely" point. I'd even say there's an outside chance that UA's gonna be forced to close and 1A's going to have to go all Order of the Phoenix, and fast-track that "#1 Hero is the Justice League" idea. ...drat, that would be a really cool twist and now I'm sad that's probably not what's going to happen.
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Jun 15, 2018 22:42
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Endeavour being depowered sounds boring. He'd be, what, the 4th hero that can never hero again?
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Jun 15, 2018 22:42
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oh jay posted:Endeavour being depowered sounds boring. He'd be, what, the 4th hero that can never hero again? Or turned into a Noumu, I’m not picky about it
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Jun 15, 2018 22:43
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Can we talk about how cool Hawks Quirk is? Because it is really loving cool.
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Jun 15, 2018 22:44
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