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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

WampaLord posted:

Honestly I think IX might be another huge hit because Disney is totally going to sell it as the Big Finale of Star Wars (spoilers, it won't be, of course) and all the controversy over TLJ is going to make people want to see this one even more.

Maybe. It's probably not quite the slam dunk that might otherwise have been assumed.

I definitely think Infinity War 2 or whatever it ends up called will be the bigger movie next year.

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nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





Wheat Loaf posted:

My hawt take is of course that Episode IX will underperform both TFA and TLJ. :troll:

Part of me kind of hopes it does, because there’s still a year and a half between now and its release for Star Wars to continue to be branded as “That Thing All The Racists Like” in the public consciousness like it has been in the last few weeks, so maybe that will depress turnout and interest in it. But I doubt it. Once the trailer for Ep 9 drops everyone, even the screeching racist manchildren will be rushing to get tickets for it because it’s loving Star Wars.

And it will be safe and inoffensive and predictable with JJ Abrams back at the helm as opposed to whatever wild incoherent rollercoaster wreck Colin Treverrow was going to deliver.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


WampaLord posted:

She's 100% right about Man of Steel and it gave me great joy to hear her express how loving dumb Pa Kent's "maybe let all those kids on the bus die, Clark!" speech is.

i got a migraine yesterday reading cd defend pa kent.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Superman's always been a sucker and I'm glad movies and the Injustice games/comics are knocking him for it now.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

WampaLord posted:

Honestly I think IX might be another huge hit because Disney is totally going to sell it as the Big Finale of Star Wars (spoilers, it won't be, of course) and all the controversy over TLJ is going to make people want to see this one even more.


She's 100% right about Man of Steel and it gave me great joy to hear her express how loving dumb Pa Kent's "maybe let all those kids on the bus die, Clark!" speech is.

AND THEY TRIED TO PROMOTE IT WITH A WEBSITE ENCOURAGING CHURCHES TO WRITE SERMONS ABOUT SUPERMAN.

I can’t get over that, it’s so crass. Have other movies that aren’t Kirk Cameron trash tried that? Superman has way more in common with Moses anyway, but Jewish people would probably not be into it.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

Groovelord Neato posted:

i got a migraine yesterday reading cd defend pa kent.

"Whoa, wait, who the gently caress are you to say that Pa Kent is supposed to be a model of morality for Clark Kent?" - the CineD consensus, apparently.

business hammocks posted:

AND THEY TRIED TO PROMOTE IT WITH A WEBSITE ENCOURAGING CHURCHES TO WRITE SERMONS ABOUT SUPERMAN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVIB9sGYeUw

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

nine-gear crow posted:

Part of me kind of hopes it does, because there’s still a year and a half between now and its release for Star Wars to continue to be branded as “That Thing All The Racists Like” in the public consciousness like it has been in the last few weeks, so maybe that will depress turnout and interest in it. But I doubt it. Once the trailer for Ep 9 drops everyone, even the screeching racist manchildren will be rushing to get tickets for it because it’s loving Star Wars.

It won't even be released in China. TFA did the best of all the new movies in China and by the standards it set everywhere else it was pretty lacklustre.

The received wisdom, such as it is, is that the middle entry dips then the third one rebounds, at least in America. And it's true to an extent. ANH and TPM did really well, ESB and AOTC didn't do as well as either of them, then ROTJ and ESB both improved on their performance. But the thing about that is that going by worldwide numbers, ROTJ was less successful than ESB.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a Jurassic Park III situation.

DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015

Pro Jared does Final Fantasy IV and it's GOOD

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


WampaLord posted:

"Whoa, wait, who the gently caress are you to say that Pa Kent is supposed to be a model of morality for Clark Kent?" - the CineD consensus, apparently.

i couldn't wrap my head about their defense of him dying to a tornado, something clark could easily save him from. the whole point is to kill him in a way clark can't help him (heart attack) so clark learns that his true weakness is he can't save everyone.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

Groovelord Neato posted:

i couldn't wrap my head about their defense of him dying to a tornado, something clark could easily save him from. the whole point is to kill him in a way clark can't help him (heart attack) so clark learns that his true weakness is he can't save everyone.

Well, that and magic :v:

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

Groovelord Neato posted:

i couldn't wrap my head about their defense of him dying to a tornado, something clark could easily save him from. the whole point is to kill him in a way clark can't help him (heart attack) so clark learns that his true weakness is he can't save everyone.

Pa Kent was a pretty human character, which is to say he had his beliefs and flaws. I found his depiction in MoS to be quite good and different. Pa Kent's "maybe" wasn't the answer anyone wanted to hear but he believed it was the best one because the situation, for him, was a complex one. He believe Clark, and the world, were not ready for each other. He believe the world would shun him and didn't think his young son wasn't ready to carry the weight of expectation on his shoulders. He died for those convictions and it shaped Clark into the person we see through the films.

Clark does explain this in the next scene. The only real stumble of the tornado sequence is that they didn't use a younger actor in the role. But considering it's a dream-like memory, we get a "younger look" Henry Cavil and Kevin Costner simply vanishing in the tornado instead of violently being torn away.

I mean, if you don't like it I won't try to convince you but at least I can try to help you understand why people like and defend it?

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

Jimbot posted:

Pa Kent's "maybe" wasn't the answer anyone wanted to hear but he believed it was the best one because the situation, for him, was a complex one. He believe Clark, and the world, were not ready for each other. He believe the world would shun him and didn't think his young son wasn't ready to carry the weight of expectation on his shoulders. He died for those convictions and it shaped Clark into the person we see through the films.

The line goes "What was I supposed to do, just let those kids die?"

And he says "maybe" before he continues on with his spiel about the world not being ready for Clark.

That's not Pa Kent. He can be concerned about his son, want to hide him from the world, that's loving fine. But the character has to say "No, of course not" before going into that bit, not "maybe"

Garrand
Dec 28, 2012

Rhino, you did this to me!

After Pa Kent's spiel about the world not being ready for him Clark listens to his advice and let's him die to the tornado instead of risking exposing himself, therefore :words:



I haven't seen the movie and know nothing about it.

TheMaestroso
Nov 4, 2014

I must know your secrets.

nine-gear crow posted:

Part of me kind of hopes it does, because there’s still a year and a half between now and its release for Star Wars to continue to be branded as “That Thing All The Racists Like” in the public consciousness like it has been in the last few weeks

Did I miss something?

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Dapper_Swindler posted:

pretty much. i have a friend or two that are furries and judging from talking to them, most furries are fine or normal. its just a open fetish/kink and other then that they are pretty normal. the only hosed up ones are the nazis and baby furs from what i have see,

A lot of furry social groups really, really suffer from that dumb internet nerd thing where it's a bunch of people who view themselves as perpetually maligned and bullied in life, specially during their school years so online they want to be super inclusive and accepting of everyone to the point where it becomes detrimental to their communities. Because by the time they start realizing maybe they shouldn't let literal pedophiles and nazis hang around and scream, shout and post whatever horrifying things they want - the simple act of saying "Okay, no more of this" gets their whole community up in arms over it. It's very easy for places like that to be taken over by creeps because most people don't want to speak out, out of fear that they'll be the bully now and punished accordingly. Most furry sites I've been exposed to treated things like "kink shaming" worse than actual bigotry and harassment. But anecdotal evidence and all.


Groovelord Neato posted:

i'm glad solo is a flop.

So am I. I have nothing against the people who made it, the actors or anything. I just felt it was the least necessary movie to make out of all the possible star wars films and had zero interest in seeing it.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





TheMaestroso posted:

Did I miss something?

Racist manchild incel Star Wars fans publically bullied Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico) off the internet (and Daisey Ridley before her) with a co-ordinated campaign of horrifyingly racist and sexist harassment and rape/death threats in the name of making Star Wars white and male again.

So now the media has been reporting on it and Star Wars is kind of slowly becoming That Thing All The Racist Kids Like in public cultural perception because the screeching racist incel manchildren have become the loudest voices in the room thanks to The Last Jedi breaking their brains so completely.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Jimbot posted:

He died for those convictions and it shaped Clark into the person we see through the films.

Clark does explain this in the next scene. The only real stumble of the tornado sequence is that they didn't use a younger actor in the role. But considering it's a dream-like memory, we get a "younger look" Henry Cavil and Kevin Costner simply vanishing in the tornado instead of violently being torn away.

I mean, if you don't like it I won't try to convince you but at least I can try to help you understand why people like and defend it?

it's very stupid. he'd likely live with terrible guilt that he just let his dad die.

Marlows
Nov 4, 2009
I understand not seeing a movie you have no interest in. But it seems odd to actively root for a film to bomb just because it isn’t for you. It would be one thing if you hated it, or found the concept grossly offensive, but hoping that particular movies flop seems a bit extreme.

I’m personally bored to tears at most superhero movies, but I don’t begrudge their box office performance. For what it’s worth, I really enjoyed Solo but thought the marketing campaign was terrible and the May release a big mistake.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

Groovelord Neato posted:

it's very stupid. he'd likely live with terrible guilt that he just let his dad die.

People try to do their best with the circumstances they are given.

TheMaestroso
Nov 4, 2014

I must know your secrets.

nine-gear crow posted:

Racist manchild incel Star Wars fans publically bullied Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico) off the internet (and Daisey Ridley before her) with a co-ordinated campaign of horrifyingly racist and sexist harassment and rape/death threats in the name of making Star Wars white and male again.

So now the media has been reporting on it and Star Wars is kind of slowly becoming That Thing All The Racist Kids Like in public cultural perception because the screeching racist incel manchildren have become the loudest voices in the room thanks to The Last Jedi breaking their brains so completely.

Oh okay, I knew about that but I don't watch tv so I haven't seen the public perception side of it. So sick of entitled assholes.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





Marlows posted:

I understand not seeing a movie you have no interest in. But it seems odd to actively root for a film to bomb just because it isn’t for you. It would be one thing if you hated it, or found the concept grossly offensive, but hoping that particular movies flop seems a bit extreme.

I’m personally bored to tears at most superhero movies, but I don’t begrudge their box office performance. For what it’s worth, I really enjoyed Solo but thought the marketing campaign was terrible and the May release a big mistake.

These people don't operate on logic, they're all seething emotional ids; people who are so fragile they've splintered into nothing but jagged edges which they now use to lacerate everything around them.

A movie they hate broke their brains so hard it now lives there rent free and dominates every moment of their lives and will do so until the day they stop existing.

TheMaestroso
Nov 4, 2014

I must know your secrets.

Marlows posted:

I understand not seeing a movie you have no interest in. But it seems odd to actively root for a film to bomb just because it isn’t for you. It would be one thing if you hated it, or found the concept grossly offensive, but hoping that particular movies flop seems a bit extreme.

I’m personally bored to tears at most superhero movies, but I don’t begrudge their box office performance. For what it’s worth, I really enjoyed Solo but thought the marketing campaign was terrible and the May release a big mistake.

I personally wanted it to fail because I don't want any more prequel one-offs about established characters. Like Boba Fett or Obi-Wan. Solo proves that these stories are not only unnecessary, but that people aren't interested in them.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Marlows posted:

I understand not seeing a movie you have no interest in. But it seems odd to actively root for a film to bomb just because it isn’t for you. It would be one thing if you hated it, or found the concept grossly offensive, but hoping that particular movies flop seems a bit extreme.

I’m personally bored to tears at most superhero movies, but I don’t begrudge their box office performance. For what it’s worth, I really enjoyed Solo but thought the marketing campaign was terrible and the May release a big mistake.

Being glad a thing didn't do well so there won't be more of them is not the same as actively rooting for it to fail. I'm sure if the next big marvel movie fell flat on its face a lot of people would be cheering.

Bakeneko
Jan 9, 2007

nine-gear crow posted:

Racist manchild incel Star Wars fans publically bullied Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico) off the internet (and Daisey Ridley before her) with a co-ordinated campaign of horrifyingly racist and sexist harassment and rape/death threats in the name of making Star Wars white and male again.

So now the media has been reporting on it and Star Wars is kind of slowly becoming That Thing All The Racist Kids Like in public cultural perception because the screeching racist incel manchildren have become the loudest voices in the room thanks to The Last Jedi breaking their brains so completely.

It’s still not really in the public consciousness though, no matter how big a shitstorm it was within geek circles. The vast majority of people have little to no idea this whole thing even happened and see Star Wars as “those fun sci-fi movies that come out every year or so”. Heck, even people who know about it are more likely to just see those troublemakers for what they are; a small number of loudmouthed assholes, not representative of everyone who watches the films.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





TheMaestroso posted:

Oh okay, I knew about that but I don't watch tv so I haven't seen the public perception side of it. So sick of entitled assholes.

Basically it got to the point where Stephen Colbert was openly dunking on these shitheads in his opening monologue for the Late Show. And in this day and age, if Colbert is mocking you... then everyone is mocking you.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

nine-gear crow posted:

Star Wars is kind of slowly becoming That Thing All The Racist Kids Like in public cultural perception

I think this is overstating things a bit.

Nuebot posted:

A lot of furry social groups really, really suffer from that dumb internet nerd thing where it's a bunch of people who view themselves as perpetually maligned and bullied in life, specially during their school years so online they want to be super inclusive and accepting of everyone to the point where it becomes detrimental to their communities. Because by the time they start realizing maybe they shouldn't let literal pedophiles and nazis hang around and scream, shout and post whatever horrifying things they want - the simple act of saying "Okay, no more of this" gets their whole community up in arms over it. It's very easy for places like that to be taken over by creeps because most people don't want to speak out, out of fear that they'll be the bully now and punished accordingly. Most furry sites I've been exposed to treated things like "kink shaming" worse than actual bigotry and harassment. But anecdotal evidence and all.

The Geek Social Fallacies

http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

quote:

Geek Social Fallacy #1: Ostracizers Are Evil
GSF1 is one of the most common fallacies, and one of the most deeply held. Many geeks have had horrible, humiliating, and formative experiences with ostracism, and the notion of being on the other side of the transaction is repugnant to them.

In its non-pathological form, GSF1 is benign, and even commendable: it is long past time we all grew up and stopped with the junior high popularity games. However, in its pathological form, GSF1 prevents its carrier from participating in -- or tolerating -- the exclusion of anyone from anything, be it a party, a comic book store, or a web forum, and no matter how obnoxious, offensive, or aromatic the prospective excludee may be.

As a result, nearly every geek social group of significant size has at least one member that 80% of the members hate, and the remaining 20% merely tolerate. If GSF1 exists in sufficient concentration -- and it usually does -- it is impossible to expel a person who actively detracts from every social event. GSF1 protocol permits you not to invite someone you don't like to a given event, but if someone spills the beans and our hypothetical Cat Piss Man invites himself, there is no recourse. You must put up with him, or you will be an Evil Ostracizer and might as well go out for the football team.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Marlows posted:

I understand not seeing a movie you have no interest in. But it seems odd to actively root for a film to bomb just because it isn’t for you. It would be one thing if you hated it, or found the concept grossly offensive, but hoping that particular movies flop seems a bit extreme.

I’m personally bored to tears at most superhero movies, but I don’t begrudge their box office performance. For what it’s worth, I really enjoyed Solo but thought the marketing campaign was terrible and the May release a big mistake.

i do want movies i'm not interested to fail so that they might spend time and effort on things i'd like. just like i'm bummed when something like bladerunner 2049 fails because i'd like big budget movies to go in that direction instead of big mess action movies like the superhero ones.

solo was not good (it really had no shot to be even without all the reshoots and poo poo). i saw it for free and overpaid.

Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jun 15, 2018

Motto
Aug 3, 2013

If association with shithead nerds could sink something, pop culture as we know it wouldn't exist in general.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

business hammocks posted:

It’s pretty cool that we’re at least in a place culturally where it’s expected that this will happen and that it happens quickly and without endless NYT “gone too far?” editorials.

oh there are plenty of morons(chuds etc) defending him, wheton left message that basically said is waiting to see how it comes about.

If its true and i believe it is, I hope christ gets his life ruined and ends up diving under a bus. abusers are loving animals undeserving of mercy. My gf was in a relationship like that(tons of emotional abuse and tons of sexual abuse) she has loving PTSD from that piece of poo poo and the law will never do anything because "it wasnt rape because she didnt punch him" type poo poo.

nine-gear crow posted:

Racist manchild incel Star Wars fans publically bullied Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico) off the internet (and Daisey Ridley before her) with a co-ordinated campaign of horrifyingly racist and sexist harassment and rape/death threats in the name of making Star Wars white and male again.

So now the media has been reporting on it and Star Wars is kind of slowly becoming That Thing All The Racist Kids Like in public cultural perception because the screeching racist incel manchildren have become the loudest voices in the room thanks to The Last Jedi breaking their brains so completely.

yeah, i love star wars but the only place i talk about is with close friends or on the book barn thread. its full of chuds and morons now. its sad. roses plot line kinda sucked but that wasnt the actresses fault. people treat fandoms like a religious now and its loving scary/gross.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jun 16, 2018

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



A similar though less extreme, because he's a white dude and social media was smaller, happened to Jake Lloyd for playing Anakin in Episode 1.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Terrible Opinions posted:

A similar though less extreme, because he's a white dude and social media was smaller, happened to Jake Lloyd for playing Anakin in Episode 1.

I feel bad for him, he probaly thought he won the lottery and then all these kids just bullied him about it and school as well as nerds. now he is in jail.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


when will george answer for his crimes.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos
You can't fight stars, they are way too big and powerful. This whole Star Wars business is a fool's errand!

Heroic Yoshimitsu
Jan 15, 2008

I think you all might be overstating things, because it seems like Star Wars is still a very popular and well-loved movie series to most people.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
They needed to deflect star wars criticism from Disney so the media leaked Lucas's draft for the sequel trilogy to make people target their vitriol elsewhere

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


that poo poo was real funny tho.

hmmm so you all hated midichlorians?? how about a whole trilogy devoted to them!

lobster22221
Jul 11, 2017

Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:

I think you all might be overstating things, because it seems like Star Wars is still a very popular and well-loved movie series to most people.

I do think they are releasing too many big Star Wars movies too fast. If they had continued pumping out large budget starwars movies after ROTJ, I actually wonder if the general public would have gotten tired of the series.

I think avengers is still doing well after so many movies because they experiment with different styles and themes with different characters. GotG is in space, Captain America can get more political, etc. People have a sort of vision for what a Star Wars movie should have, which gives them a bit less flexibility. I'm not too familiar with the series outside the movies, but I'd imagine that a lot of the experimenting within the franchise is in the other content.

Some of the fans being as horrible as they have been also increases peoples resentment of a franchise. There is absolutely no defending what they did to Kelly Marie Tran.

Basically, I think Disney is doing mostly fine, but needs to slow down their release Calendar for Star Wars to allow more time for planning and to avoid oversaturation in theatres.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


the eu had about a dozen different "the death star but bigger!"

lobster22221
Jul 11, 2017

Groovelord Neato posted:

the eu had about a dozen different "the death star but bigger!"

The EU also had less people reading and watching it than the movies.

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khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Groovelord Neato posted:

that poo poo was real funny tho.

hmmm so you all hated midichlorians?? how about a whole trilogy devoted to them!

Wow, I didn't hear about this, what was the synopsis?

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