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EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



At least it’s a big enough profile that it should end up somewhere easily accessible. There’s nothing worse than seeing a trailer or reading about an interesting looking doc just for it to fall into the ether for years.

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Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

Just watched the Netflix version of The Staircase and man, what a ride. I watched the first Staircase when it came out and got completely hooked on it, then the second and finally now the third. It's so good.

The one thing I noticed the Netflix version completely cut out was the whole Owl theory thing, I think it was fairly prominent in The Last Chance/Staircase 2 but the only reference to it is in passing by David Rudolf in the second to last episode. I liked having it as a part of the doc originally because it was such an out-there theory but I remember it being somewhat well justified.

Still, check it out if you haven't already. It's up there with the best true crime, fly-on-the-wall, non-sensationalized courtroom documentaries.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
Wait, is it a new documentary based on the same case? Or did they just upload that old documentary?

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



Re-upload with extra episodes I believe.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
Huh. Interesting.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



EL BROMANCE posted:

Re-upload with extra episodes I believe.

Ohhhhh thats why it said 3 new episodes. I thought the whole thing was new, an just sat archived for years.

Yea that docu is a loving ride and I was hit with a lot of defeat last night around episode 11

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Wait, is it a new documentary based on the same case? Or did they just upload that old documentary?

It's the old documentary plus three new episodes' worth of more recent material edited into roughly hour-long episodes. The first Staircase covered the whole thing from Kathleen's death to Peterson's conviction, Staircase 2: Last Chance covered the appeal process and Peterson being granted a retrial and the third covers everything from there up until mid-to-late 2017 so it's very recent.

But like I said, the old stuff has been slightly edited, for instance cutting out everything about the owl theory. It's still solid as hell and it was cool to see new stuff after such a long wait.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




Stare-Out posted:

Just watched the Netflix version of The Staircase and man, what a ride. I watched the first Staircase when it came out and got completely hooked on it, then the second and finally now the third. It's so good.

The one thing I noticed the Netflix version completely cut out was the whole Owl theory thing, I think it was fairly prominent in The Last Chance/Staircase 2 but the only reference to it is in passing by David Rudolf in the second to last episode. I liked having it as a part of the doc originally because it was such an out-there theory but I remember it being somewhat well justified.

Still, check it out if you haven't already. It's up there with the best true crime, fly-on-the-wall, non-sensationalized courtroom documentaries.

Henry Lee is the highlight of that show. He politely and charmingly destroys the DA's evidence but still gets ignored because he's too "foreign".

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

Alhazred posted:

Henry Lee is the highlight of that show. He politely and charmingly destroys the DA's evidence but still gets ignored because he's too "foreign".

His joke about signing Rudolf's book killed too. As did Brad's "and one judge" line. So weird to see everyone laugh under those circumstances.

magnificent7
Sep 22, 2005

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Stare-Out posted:

It's the old documentary plus three new episodes' worth of more recent material edited into roughly hour-long episodes. The first Staircase covered the whole thing from Kathleen's death to Peterson's conviction, Staircase 2: Last Chance covered the appeal process and Peterson being granted a retrial and the third covers everything from there up until mid-to-late 2017 so it's very recent.

But like I said, the old stuff has been slightly edited, for instance cutting out everything about the owl theory. It's still solid as hell and it was cool to see new stuff after such a long wait.

Someone in this thread said that The Staircase was rather one-sided though, omitting a lot of details? I've tried googling, reading wikis, and I can't find any mention of said omissions. Does anybody know more about that part of the story?

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

magnificent7 posted:

Someone in this thread said that The Staircase was rather one-sided though, omitting a lot of details? I've tried googling, reading wikis, and I can't find any mention of said omissions. Does anybody know more about that part of the story?

Well, it's one-sided in the sense that it predominantly focuses on Peterson and his family, the opposing side (DA/Kathleen's family) aren't given all that much screen time, especially as the story progresses. I haven't heard anything about any significant omissions, but the doc didn't sway me in either direction. Even after going through it twice now, I can't say whether Peterson is guilty or not.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



Some dark rear end jokes were being had around epsiode 8/9

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007
I think the only thing I’m convinced of is that she was murdered by someone. I was just never convinced that an accident causes those kind of injuries.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

After watching it twice I can't believe he murdered her. Like it makes no sense motive wise or murder weapon wise

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

If he did murder her, or if she was murdered, there's no way it happened in the way the prosecution claims in the first trial. That whole blowpoke thing was a load of horseshit from the beginning.

Owl theory all the way. :tinfoil:

Mahoning posted:

I think the only thing I’m convinced of is that she was murdered by someone. I was just never convinced that an accident causes those kind of injuries.

That's the thought I had when I first watched the documentary but if she hit her head hard enough on the door frame, and then slipped, it's possible. But then again we have no real idea of how things went down, the way she fell could've been a whole lot different than was presented during the trial by the biomechanics guy for instance. A hard enough of a fall would've caused a hell of a laceration and even without skull fractures the head bleeds a lot. I've gotten cuts to my head a few times and each time it was pretty alarming to see the amount of blood coming from a pretty tiny cut. I mean, face covered in blood-amount from a cut less than an inch wide.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




Alan_Shore posted:

After watching it twice I can't believe he murdered her. Like it makes no sense motive wise or murder weapon wise

But he had filth on his computer. Pure filth!

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

Alhazred posted:

But he had filth on his computer. Pure filth!

The man. Liked. DICKS

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

I'm amazed the jury managed to (presumably) stay unbiased when faced with a ghoulish crone like Freda Black.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




Honestly, I think the judge was the worst of them all of all. He just silently watches it all unfolds and then later non-nonchalantly admits how hosed up it was and that he might have ruined a man's life over nothing.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Alan_Shore posted:

After watching it twice I can't believe he murdered her. Like it makes no sense motive wise or murder weapon wise

At the very least, the prosecution didn't come anywhere close to "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" and he should have never been sentenced after that shitshow of a trial.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



Alhazred posted:

Honestly, I think the judge was the worst of them all of all. He just silently watches it all unfolds and then later non-nonchalantly admits how hosed up it was and that he might have ruined a man's life over nothing.

Yea that is super hosed up.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames
Also, the "Owl Theory" actually makes a whole lot of sense. She literally had feathers in her hair :psyduck:

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



Wtf is this theory

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Alan_Shore posted:

The man. Liked. DICKS

The worst part of the series is when that woman is talking to the jury, and she adopts her "gee shucks ah'm just an old tyme Southern gal like y'all" and says things like "HE WAS A BAH. SEXUAL. DO YOU THINK THAT WOMAN WOULD HAVE STOOD FOR THAT FILTH!"

Like yeah a rich couple who mix in the art world being freaky is a REAL SCANDAL HERE LADY.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

KoRMaK posted:

Wtf is this theory

It's on Youtube, the gist of it is that the wounds on her scalp look EXACTLY like owl raptor talons, they live in a place where Bard Owls attack humans without provocation, she had microfeathers and twigs in the hair she pulled out of her scalp, and Bard Owls are the only owls that even have microfeathers that go down to their talons. The wounds, extreme amount of blood, and so forth are consistent with someone attacked by an owl that got tangled in her hair and, because she was drunk and on Valium, it was made worse by her falling and hitting her body all over the steps.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010
Any of you seen this? How good or bad is it?

quote:

The cultural aversion to a group of punks in a conservative Texas town leads to one of the most controversial hate crimes in American history. Based on the true story of Brian Deneke, Bomb City questions the morality of American justice.

I mean, as a lifelong punk lover, I assume it'll angry up the blood since I sorta know the story already....but is it a good film?

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



precision posted:

It's on Youtube, the gist of it is that the wounds on her scalp look EXACTLY like owl raptor talons, they live in a place where Bard Owls attack humans without provocation, she had microfeathers and twigs in the hair she pulled out of her scalp, and Bard Owls are the only owls that even have microfeathers that go down to their talons. The wounds, extreme amount of blood, and so forth are consistent with someone attacked by an owl that got tangled in her hair and, because she was drunk and on Valium, it was made worse by her falling and hitting her body all over the steps.
Omg lol why did they take that out of the Netflix upload? Did it ever run at trial?


They strike me as the kind of people that would leave their back door open, for the dogs mostly and because who cares no one is going to walk in through the backyard.


Makes me think about why it's important to keep your screen door closed and probably not even have a doggie door in places like Florida

not trolled not crying
Jan 29, 2007

21st Century Awezome Man

precision posted:

It's on Youtube, the gist of it is that the wounds on her scalp look EXACTLY like owl raptor talons, they live in a place where Bard Owls attack humans without provocation, she had microfeathers and twigs in the hair she pulled out of her scalp, and Bard Owls are the only owls that even have microfeathers that go down to their talons. The wounds, extreme amount of blood, and so forth are consistent with someone attacked by an owl that got tangled in her hair and, because she was drunk and on Valium, it was made worse by her falling and hitting her body all over the steps.

You'd think she would have had some wounds on her hands or did she just let the thing attack her and not even try to fight back or? So the bird just flew in, attacked her, and then just casually flew out? Like, it came in the house just to kill her like some assassin and found a way out without being confused and flying around the house leaving more feathers around? I think the feathers and twigs are more likely to have gone in her hair when they were sitting outside by the pool. Anything is possible though.
But having watched the documentary, to me it's most likely that the guy did it. He gives out some weird OJ vibes with his nervous laughter and weird jokes about murder and killing etc. Plus, in the earlier episodes you can see it in the defense's faces that they are struggling to come up with different ways how the lady could have gotten those injuries and even admitting that it's tough to figure it out. An interesting case for sure, but to me it just seems to be so straight forward and obvious but with all the surrounding poo poo from both sides making it such a poo poo show that no one can think straight anymore.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

I imagine the owl would only have had to swoop and attack once, near the house to leave the marks, then she runs inside and brains herself on the stairs

Kull the Conqueror
Apr 8, 2006

Take me to the green valley,
lay the sod o'er me,
I'm a young cowboy,
I know I've done wrong

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Any of you seen this? How good or bad is it?


I mean, as a lifelong punk lover, I assume it'll angry up the blood since I sorta know the story already....but is it a good film?

It's not a documentary but it is def. an above average indie

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

KoRMaK posted:

Omg lol why did they take that out of the Netflix upload? Did it ever run at trial?


They strike me as the kind of people that would leave their back door open, for the dogs mostly and because who cares no one is going to walk in through the backyard.


Makes me think about why it's important to keep your screen door closed and probably not even have a doggie door in places like Florida

Presumably it was axed because it was a loose theory that, to be fair, felt a bit left field in the original doc as well. It never came up at trial if I recall because it first came up during the appeal process and I don't think there was enough solid evidence to put it forth as a credible alternate theory for what happened. The state would've blown it out of the water pretty easily.

I personally think that while it's extremely unlikely, it's not impossible. There are ways it could've happened, all it takes is one swoop from an adult bard owl to do pretty severe damage, and they demonstrated in the documentary that if you were at the pool, you wouldn't hear a thing that was happening in the house.

I'm still leaning towards it being an accident. She fell.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




not trolled not crying posted:

But having watched the documentary, to me it's most likely that the guy did it. He gives out some weird OJ vibes with his nervous laughter and weird jokes about murder and killing etc.
There's no "right" way to react to the things that he experienced though. Giving out weird vibes is not evidence of being a murder.

quote:

Plus, in the earlier episodes you can see it in the defense's faces that they are struggling to come up with different ways how the lady could have gotten those injuries and even admitting that it's tough to figure it out. An interesting case for sure, but to me it just seems to be so straight forward and obvious but with all the surrounding poo poo from both sides making it such a poo poo show that no one can think straight anymore.
It's not their job to figure out what happened and saying "we don't know what really happened but we know what is most likely to have happened" than the DA's strategy of saying "we know exactly what happened even if we have to fudge the experiments to replicate it".

And for it having to be a murder Peterson would have chosen a weapon that could lacerate but not break the skull (blowpoke!), stand in a very specific angle and since there's no defense wounds his wife must've laid completely still while he beat her. Not to mention that his supposed motive boils down to "he was a filthy degenerative".

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Alan_Shore posted:

I imagine the owl would only have had to swoop and attack once, near the house to leave the marks, then she runs inside and brains herself on the stairs

This is also a way to explain why there were blood spots around the pool and leading indoors.

Like yeah, it's a weird rear end theory, but also to me it's just as plausible as "guy who is in a happy marriage and doing well financially beats his wife to death for literally no reason, spends 10 years in jail, and then still balks at entering an Alford Plea even though that is the only thing he has to do in order to get, and stay, out of jail.

I didn't get "OJ vibes" from him at all. Guy mostly just seemed insanely bewildered at how hosed up his situation was.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




precision posted:

I didn't get "OJ vibes" from him at all. Guy mostly just seemed insanely bewildered at how hosed up his situation was.

I actually liked that he was aware enough to talk about how insanely more hosed he would have been if he wasn't a white rich man.

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

precision posted:

I didn't get "OJ vibes" from him at all. Guy mostly just seemed insanely bewildered at how hosed up his situation was.

That's how I saw it too, it's hardly unusual for someone in his position to try and use morbid humor when his life is basically on the line and the odds are increasingly against him. It's not like the second his wife's body was taken away he was off cracking jokes about being a murderer. Plus he had a consistent habit of trying to convince everyone around him, his kids most notably, that he was doing okay so what better way to do that than to joke around.

E: I also have to mention Kathleen's sisters. I mean there's trying to make sense of an insanely tragic and difficult situation by blaming anyone and everyone but they (Candace in particular) really went off the deep end. I actually felt pretty sorry for her at the end, despite how she came across.

Stare-Out fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jun 18, 2018

magnificent7
Sep 22, 2005

THUNDERDOME LOSER
I'm sorry y'all - you can say Owl, or Waterfowl, or Superbowl, but that all fades away when you hear, "His previous wife died from a fall down the stairs as well."

BAM sorry what now why are we even discussing this again?

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




magnificent7 posted:

I'm sorry y'all - you can say Owl, or Waterfowl, or Superbowl, but that all fades away when you hear, "His previous wife died from a fall down the stairs as well."
It wasn't his previous wife, it was a friend's wife.
He had absolutely no motive for killing her.
The german doctor concluded that she died of an aneurysm.

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

No she didn't. His previous wife stood by him in court last year. His friend and biological mother of his adopted daughers died after possibly suffering a stroke and then falling down the stairs. Easy to see as suspicious, no doubt. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I'm leaning towards a coincidence. Again, no motive, and pushing someone down the stairs isn't necessarily a surefire way of killing a person, especially when there's no clear evidence of any subsequent beating. If so, Peterson is a very lucky (in terms of success rate) and an oddly specific and sporadic murderer.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
I think it says something about what has changed in the past decade because in the last go-round, when the doc was originally aired, the owl theory was roundly mocked.

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magnificent7
Sep 22, 2005

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Alhazred posted:

It wasn't his previous wife, it was a friend's wife.
He had absolutely no motive for killing her.
The german doctor concluded that she died of an aneurysm.

Thanks for clearing this up. I swear I thought it was a case of "He did it before so... guilty?"

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