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Let's orient ourselves so we know which way north is, then follow the river north. Once we're between the mountain and the forest, we should be able to try rafting again to cross it.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:23
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 09:13 |
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Intheway river is to the north, we want to head west!
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Jun 12, 2018 14:26
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I saw we walk a very short distance west (297 magnetic, unless I'm messing up the math again), which should match Fish's direction. We can see how that's affecting our pace, and then decide if we need to stop and rest. I say we keep the raft, we can use that for getting to the end.
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Jun 12, 2018 16:48
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Keep the raft, we may need it as an option for Endboss River Continue walking for 60-90 more minutes, then do our usual nightly routine
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Jun 12, 2018 19:34
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 This is a view of 297~ degrees magnetic, for the record. (you're often a degree or so off when you turn to a facing) I can absolutely aim us towards a specific landmark when we move out, if you guys prefer though. You still have time to discuss a specific direction before we set out however. For the other issues, the consensus seems to be to keep the raft, and by my count a majority supports saving daylight by moving on right away without any long breaks, as it stands right now. Nice piece of fish posted:Gotta say, I can't believe how much I'm enjoying this LP.  In my opinion, this is one of those really unique and experimental early PC games that deserve recognition for doing something that hadn't been done before, and haven't really been done in the same way since, and I'm really happy to be able to show it off.
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Jun 12, 2018 19:54
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I'm simultaneously amused by how much we're clearly overthinking things and impressed by how much the game actually does model.
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Jun 12, 2018 20:22
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Covski posted:
My suggestion is still this Which will be a few degrees westward from that screen you've showed and is the straightest shot for the lowest point in the pass, and as close to the river wetlands as we want to go. It's the path of least resistance, as far as Goonpa is concerned, and in orienteering it really is very imperative that you a: move towards easily recognized landmarks and b: try to avoid walking uphill as much as possible. Heading 297 magnetic is a waste of time and energy, we don't want to be climbing in the terrain at all if we can help it.
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Jun 12, 2018 21:06
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we're really not overthinking things, per se - having played this game a fair bit, this sort of sit down time with the topo and planning the tools for the job is pretty much where the game is won or lost. the plan gets vacillated a bit due to the nature of forum voting, but the primitive triangulation and careful analysis of what's around is absolutely vital to playing this game - and to not dying in a survival situation! if anyone thinks this is going too well, don't. remember that we are effectively on a fairly hard time limit due to our food supplies, unless we want to try trapping or fishing for our meals, which is far from guaranteed. also, an encounter with a wild animal can instantly turn our situation on its head. wounds take a somewhat realistic time to heal in this game - that is to say, a long loving time! a broken leg will absolutely cripple your walking speed and the manual explicitly calls it out as taking weeks to heal!
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Jun 12, 2018 21:14
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I'm with nice piece of fish's suggestion of aiming for the saddle. There is no good reason not to do so, and every reason to use it as a landmark and an easier hike. If the terrain is for some reason worse toward the river, it'll be easy enough to adjust course when we get there. I'm also in favor of not trying to float our way down from
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Jun 12, 2018 21:37
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Kangra posted:I'm also in favor of not trying to float our way down from  Anything less than perfect performance would literally be death.
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Jun 12, 2018 21:40
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Coolguye posted:we're really not overthinking things, per se - having played this game a fair bit, this sort of sit down time with the topo and planning the tools for the job is pretty much where the game is won or lost. Covski's analysis of our speed makes me seriously doubt our ability to reach the end as Goonpa. 45 days to cross the map at our current speed is absolutely ridiculous, and we're already struggling to ration our food because of his voracious appetite. Even if nothing goes wrong and we miraculously avoid any injuries and perfectly stay on course to the ranger station, we're at serious risk of starving.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:16
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chitoryu12 posted:Even if nothing goes wrong and we miraculously avoid any injuries and perfectly stay on course to the ranger station, we're at serious risk of starving. Nature is our buffet, we'll be fine. We already found like 2lbs of greens just feet from the plane wreck.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:31
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We have sufficient fat reserves to avoid starvation for a while, I think.
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Jun 12, 2018 23:26
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it is possible to get more food by using traps or fishing at rivers, and the tools for these require nothing more than wood and time. the problem, of course, is that the returns are not guaranteed, and it can be difficult to get ahead in a reasonable time frame. you're pretty much always going to be burning something that isn't replaceable, or taking risks that endanger your health. the problem, of course, lies in trying to make forward progress while living off the land this way. part of the problem here with the forward progress has been the lack of snowshoes. the game really ought to tell you when you are slowed by an environmental obstacle like that but it doesn't.
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Jun 12, 2018 23:48
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Adding to that, our travel speed doesn't show reliably. I think the issue is that our mph is shown while the game is calculating our progress and rendering the new terrain, which goes a lot faster than it did in 1986. I'll try to keep a better lookout for it from now on! And yes, snowshoes will help a whole lot, finding ways to lightening our load couldn't hurt either. Still, even managing his abysmal speed is pretty impressive: I can't imagine a man of Goonpa's age and shape moving much faster through deep snow with thirty kilograms on his back! (I want to see a artist's rendition of Goonpa now)
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Jun 12, 2018 23:56
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I agree to not go with 297, and aim for the saddle instead.
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Jun 13, 2018 02:56
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Coolguye posted:we're really not overthinking things, per se - having played this game a fair bit, this sort of sit down time with the topo and planning the tools for the job is pretty much where the game is won or lost. Also, isn't it like October? We kind of have a hard limit due to winter in BC is going to be cold. And coming soon.
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Jun 13, 2018 04:39
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Starvation should occur long before the winter sets in.
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Jun 14, 2018 07:38
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 We take aim for the saddle betwen Liquid Big Mountain and Averagely Sized Mountain (257 degrees magnetic, for the record), and power on for another 80 minutes or so.    Maybe letting Goonpa rest after that arduous river crossing would have been prudent. Even so, exhaustion is not necessarily life threateningly dangerous, as long as you are able to rest as soon as possible and have access to food to replenish your lost energy. Goonpa is lucky enough to have an easily pitched tent, access to copious amounts of food (for now), and the weather is not immediately threatening especially since he can make a fire easily. If we would have had to go through the process of building a shelter ourselves, using more primitive fire making methods, and being caught out in a snow storm or rain, pushing ourselves to the point of exhaustion would have been a lot worse.  I immediately give Goonpa a bit of rest, before making an executive decision to spend a unit of fuel to get a fire up and running as quickly as possible. After that, I perform the usual camping routine of pitching the tent, having dinner, and filling up our canteen with boiled snow. We also also spend some time making snowshoes, now that the materials are available. Hopefully this should mean a significant improvement of his speed!  By the time we're done with everything, it's quite late and Goonpa is barely able to stand up from exhaustion. I opt to give him a good ten hours of sleep.  This means that by the time we're done with the usual morning routine and breaking camp, it is already relatively late in the day. Even so, Goonpa is back to decent shape! Er, decent shape for being Goonpa that is. I'm not sure I've mentioned this, but player status can go all the way up to "good" and even "fantastic". Goonpa has never been over "okay."  After breakfast, we're also out of potatoes  We're ready to set of again, this is our current course towards The Saddle.  Annoyingly, we can't get a good zoom in on the exact area we're aiming for on the topo map. This is the southwest quadrant of the map, with Liquid Big Mountain on the right.  And this is the northwest, with Dogleg Swamp and Endboss River. That black square is, once again, the ranger station we're aiming for. Do we need to make any course adjustments at this point? How long are we walking to day? Anything else we need to discuss before setting off? As always, feel free to ask for any additional information!
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Jun 17, 2018 16:19
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Has Goonpa lost any weight yet?
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Jun 17, 2018 16:38
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Too lazy to go find our last inventory screen, now we're out of potatoes we should be eating whatever the next heaviest food in our pack is unless we have anything perishable that won't last any longer. Insert usual paranoid reminder to pick up all our stuff before we move on. Our current course seems to still be sensible, once we're at the saddle we should have a better view of where we are and what the land looks like ahead of us and we can plan the next leg. (Pre emptively voting for sliding down any snowy slopes on the raft wherever possible.) Is there going to be an additional tiredness penalty from Goonpa (presumably) never having worn snowshoes before? They use different muscles and take a bit of getting used to. If the game doesn't model that, we should be moving a lot easier today, and we've eaten our heaviest food as well.
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Jun 17, 2018 16:48
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That's definitely the right direction. We look set to intersect Dogleg River near the slope of Steep Mountain, where we can follow it.
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Jun 17, 2018 17:15
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That's a solid direction for now, also good on you for saving Goonpa from dying from moving what must have been half a mile. Goddamn. I hope those snowshoes help out. Make sure we don't leave anything and march on. We should aim for making camp an hour before sunset at your best estimation and mostly keep to that schedule. We probably won't get far today, but that's alright.
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Jun 17, 2018 18:07
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Ya'll don't know how much I'm stressing about remembering to pack all our stuff before moving on, but I appreciate the reminders.  The cheese was our suggested next food according to thread input earlier on, so that's probably next on the menu. I doubt there's an adjustment period for using snowshoes, but there might possibly be some kind of flat fatigue penalty? I rightly don't know. Also I can't really fault Goonpa for almost passing out: Who here can honestly say we wouldn't feel that way after walking close to ten hours in knee deep snow with a heavy load on our backs, and crossing a presumably wide and rapid river in a raft that's way too overloaded?
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Jun 17, 2018 19:37
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I'm happy with the course and the food, let's try for a couple of days in one go. Make camp one hour before sunset, aim to sleep for eight hours, pick up any forage but don't sample it straight away. Is the black stuff on the map swamp or forest?
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Jun 17, 2018 22:04
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Jaguars! posted:I'm happy with the course and the food, let's try for a couple of days in one go. Make camp one hour before sunset, aim to sleep for eight hours, pick up any forage but don't sample it straight away. I believe those are forests.
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Jun 17, 2018 22:06
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Those black areas are indeed forests, yes. We can absolutely start doing multi-day updates soon: The updates have constantly been covering longer and longer time periods, as there as less new things to show off and we're getting to establishing a routine and making policy decisions on how to handle situations we encounter. I've also toyed with making a gif covering Goonpa's journey so far:  Sorry about the semi-monstrous file size, I'll make more optimised versions in the future when we have journeyed longer, this is just a proof of concept
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Jun 17, 2018 23:07
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quote:Goonpa has never been over "okay." (No real suggestions right now, just glad I saw this LP. It reminds me of The Long Dark minus the unnaturally aggressive wildlife & overabundance of safe shelter.)
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Jun 18, 2018 02:03
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Covski posted:Those black areas are indeed forests, yes. That's cool! Still amazed we survived the river crossing. Next stop, mild gradients! I'll do a map when I'm not phone posting.
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Jun 18, 2018 03:49
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Haifisch posted:It'd be hilarious if the game modeled the realistic health status of an obese elderly person and took that into account here. Then again, "okay" would probably be an overestimate there. On the other hand, any minute he's not actually dead from heart disease/diabetes/overall crappy health is "okay"!
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Jun 18, 2018 04:33
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The game is definitely modeling Goonpa’s terrible physical shape. Under normal circumstances you can go to really low energy multiple times before actually contracting exhaustion. The message is totally different, too: “you are too tired to even lift your little finger!!” I wasn’t sure how it was going to do this but yeah, Goonpa definitely has much less in the metaphorical tank than a normal avatar.
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Jun 18, 2018 14:31
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Nah, the tank's just bigger. 
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Jun 18, 2018 17:28
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 And we're off on the fourth day of our journey. I'm not sure whether just wearing the snow shoes is enough, so I'm carefully typing USE SNOWSHOES/WALK every time we set off. I'm generally going at two hours a time, since that seems enough  I still haven't been able to get a glimpse of the speed indicator, but is sure seems like the snowshoes are improving things. Just look how much closer to Steep Mountain we are after only two hours of walking! We stop for second breakfast and keep going. We're down to eating carrots now (there never was any cheese) and I gotta say, these vegetables are doing very little to keep Goonpa satiated.  By first lunch, we're out of carrots and down to eating peas. At this point, it's getting hard to keep Goonpa drinking enough to stave off dehydration. This is a part of how the game abstracts freeze dried foods. You don't have to spend water to prepare it, but this also means that you are getting no water at all when you eat it and have to drink more to compensate. Besides this, as I may have mentioned before, you really need to drink at least as much water when in very cold temperatures as you do in very hot. This is something very often overlooked by inexperienced outdoorsmen, and a very easy why to get dehydrated without necessarily knowing why you feel like poo poo all of a sudden.  A bigger problem has arisen though: Frost bite. It's nasty, but not entirely debilitating. I guess this was bound to happen at this rate. Even though we are able to keep a comfortable temperature in general (I'm wondering how much Goonpa's body fat helps out here - yes, the game simulates that), our hands have been exposed the whole time due to a lack of proper mittens. This can be treated by plenty of time spent by a fire, but even then we're looking at somewhere between 2-14 days to heal. At the rate we're going, slowing down much as all is only going to make us starve. Now, we could co-opt one of the fishing hooks from our fishing gear to make a needle for a sewing kit, but as far as I know the game doesn't let us simply butcher some of our excess clothing to fashion mittens from - or if it's possible, I can't for the life of me figure out the proper commands for it. We'd have to get lucky enough to get our hands on an animal to skin. Sadly there's also no WEAR SOCKS ON HANDS command. We'll simply have to keep our eyes open for a way to solve this.  We push on for another two hours before reaching our camping spot for the fourth night. I forgot to screenshot our surroundings first, but don't worry, we arrived well ahead of nightfall.  We go through our usual camping routine, I'm sure you're all familiar with it by now.  To our left, obscured by trees, we can kinda see the river fork of Steep Mountain River valley and the as yet unnamed mountain in the south of the map.  And we finally get a decent view of Solid Big Mountain from a distance, with all those boring slopes we've spent the better part of our journey walking on.  We wake up in pretty rough shape. I'll have to remember to keep drinking more.   Packing up our things take a while, and I spend a little extra time making sure Goonpa is decently hydrated before setting off again.  Two more hours brings us close to the base of Steep Mountain. I've veered a bit of course here, my bad, sorry about that.  And just a little while after that, we enter a proper forest for the first time.  It's around noon and we are in as good a shape as we can expect, but let's take this opportunity to orient ourselves. At this point, we have the option to simply follow Dogleg river, which should bring us all the way close to Endboss river with minimal fuss and bother. However, that is not necessarily the quickest or safest route.   A look at our current inventory situation, food is rapidly becoming an issue. Do we opt to follow Dogleg River, or to take another course? Does anyone have any ideas on how to best handle the frostbite situation? As usual, feel free to request any additional information.
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Jun 19, 2018 14:13
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poo poo. Well, now we're in trouble because frost bite left untreated compounds into sepsis left alone for long enough. Unfortunately, we also do not have time to rest for 2-14 days due to our dwindling food supply. The good news is that snow shoes helped our pace a lot. As for direction of travel, my suggestion is following dogleg river as it is almost a straight shot towards where we need to cross endboss river heading directly for our goal. It's almost as straight a shot as we can move, so there's no reason to change course or cross dogleg if I'm reading the map right. The frostbite situation is grim. If there's anything we can make or fashion that lets us better protect our hands that would be great, but I don't know what the game allows. Is there any way to get more details on the extent of the frostbite injury? Can we amputate if it gets bad enough? What's the status of our other limbs, are we getting closer to frostbite on anything else and is anything else unprotected? It must be pretty loving cold, or maybe the game simulates the reduced blood flow of diabeetus grandpaw. Too bad we can't simulate protecting fingers with body warmth like a sensible person. Can we use the first aid kit to sort out the damage? If we can't do anything, we should probably push on and make some mittens from any corpse or animal we come across if we get a change. We don't have time for trapping, and fish skin mittens is probably out. How is our water situation? We need to keep hydrated like you mentioned, but our water supply seems to vary and I don't quite get why. Is the greater number locally available water around our camp site? As for gear: What are we carrying the stove for. Are we using that? What are we carrying antivenom (snakebite kit) for? There's no snakes in freezing temps. What are we using the soap for? Are we washing? Do we need to wash? We can probably drop what we're not going to be using. Excepting the rock of course.
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Jun 19, 2018 14:36
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Holy poo poo, we're suffering frostbite through leather gloves? At least we've got a guess on how loving cold it is.
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Jun 19, 2018 14:41
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The game and manual are quite unclear on the topic - as far as I know, I don't think the frostbite can deteriorate into something even worse. Frostbite can affect the face, the feet and the hands. Our face and feet are properly covered by our balaclava and wool socks respectively so those aren't an issue. The manual doesn't list any other treatments for frostbite except covering your limbs properly and using a fire for heat, the first aid kit is pretty specifically for wound treatment and disinfection. It doesn't have to be incredibly cold for us to contract frostbite (I've even seen the temperature indicator climb up to "cold" for brief periods once or twice), when you consider that we've been walking around and using our bare hands for everything in freezing conditions on a snowy and windy mountain for four days straight. As long as there's snow water is a non issue, I boil enough snow to fill our canteen as part of our camping routine. Our canteen holds 64 ounces, the reason you see larger amounts of water on the status screen sometimes is because whenever you take or consume snow, the game lists all the remaining snow on the ground as a water source. Soap is very good to have in your pack for cleaning wounds, but I don't think it does anything that our first aid kit doesn't. The stove is potentially useful in a situation where firewood is completely unavailable, though that hasn't happened to far. As for the snakebite it,  . Are there even any venomous snakes in British Columbia?Feel free to discuss if we should lighten our load further by leaving some stuff behind (besides the ancestral rock, that is).
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Jun 19, 2018 14:53
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chitoryu12 posted:Holy poo poo, we're suffering frostbite through leather gloves? At least we've got a guess on how loving cold it is. Huh, yeah, I forgot we have gloves on. My best guess is that they're usefulness is limited in the snow since they're not waterproof, and wet leather has a tendency to become frozen and terrible, even when they're decently padded. It's likely we might have had our encounter with frostbite much earlier, if it hadn't been for them however.
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Jun 19, 2018 14:57
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Goonpa always suspected that the beetus would take his feet, but he never dreamed he'd lose his hands...
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Jun 19, 2018 15:43
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I can't parse any of the ways to help frostbite into commands the game would recognise. Goonpa needs to stuff his gloves with whatever he can find and improvise mittens to wear on top with more insulation stuffed between glove and mitten, and keep his hands wedged in warm spots as much as possible - under his arms, between his legs while he sleeps, between handy rolls of fat, etc. Keeping the worst affected fingers in his mouth would help if there's no other option. But I don't think we can tell the game how to do any of that, and the manual is no help. I think Goonpa might lose a couple of fingers in our quest for cheetos at the ranger station. It might almost be worth stopping for a day or two; we're by a river in a forest, we're not going to find a friendlier environment. We have unlimited water and firewood. Can we use game commands to find out if there's signs of wildlife? Maybe there are plants in the river, and we have fishing gear with us. Are we able to make snares or other traps? We have a gun as well. If there's a reasonable chance of success we could stop here for a bit, keep a fire going as much as possible to try and save our hands, and attempt to collect better food to take with us - maybe even some fur to make mittens if we're really lucky. Goonpa will eat less if he's not hiking all day too. Thoughts?
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Jun 19, 2018 16:07
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 09:13 |
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The frostbite is punishment for our doubts in The Rock. As long as we place full confidence in our Rock Goonpa shall prevail.
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Jun 19, 2018 16:10
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