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buglord posted:Could be worse. You could spend a whole weekend building and tearing apart a new computer because it won’t boot because you thought your GPU only needed one power cable plugged in. Well I am the guy who put the case cover on figuring it was all done...only for the previously working computer to not boot. I figured a wire got bumped or something. That was an hour ago. I am intensely frustrated this motherbaord doesn't give BIOS beeps or have an LED readout of some kind.
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Jun 22, 2018 22:44
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Very few motherboards these days include a speaker. It's kind of annoying.
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Jun 22, 2018 22:49
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Very few motherboards these days include a speaker. It's kind of annoying. Seriously, it was just used for a status beep. A very, very important beep! Edit: fiddled with/jiggled wires for the fifteenth time. Maybe it was me unseating and reseating the RAM. Maybe it was me poking the drat wires on the power supply. But it finally loving works again. And I have both monitors. Case is open, the giant power cables looking like guts spilling out...but now I'm terrified to put the damned cover on. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jun 22, 2018 |
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Jun 22, 2018 22:51
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Somewhere in this thread I stumbled on a link to a spreadsheet comparing a lot of motherboards and their performance tiers irrc but I'm having trouble digging that up again--does anyone have that handy?
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Jun 22, 2018 23:37
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I recently sent a new gpu back to rma because I thought it was broke. Turned out I just needed to reboot my system several times and magically it started working.
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Jun 22, 2018 23:40
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Wally Joyner posted:Somewhere in this thread I stumbled on a link to a spreadsheet comparing a lot of motherboards and their performance tiers irrc but I'm having trouble digging that up again--does anyone have that handy? When in doubt, get the ASRock Extreme4. Good features, good power delivery, can be had for $130-150 depending on rebates.
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Jun 22, 2018 23:48
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Wally Joyner posted:Somewhere in this thread I stumbled on a link to a spreadsheet comparing a lot of motherboards and their performance tiers irrc but I'm having trouble digging that up again--does anyone have that handy?  (source) Normally though, in the US and most of Europe there are only really three full-size Z370 boards worth considering - the cheapest one you can find (because you don't care about overclocking, you just want faster RAM), the Asrock Z370 Extreme4 (for most people, who want to overclock a bit or just run an all-core stock turbo on the 8700), and whichever expensive boondoggle you want (because you have more money than sense). The Asrock Z370 Taichi and Asus Maximus X Hero are probably the most common choices from the last category. Gigabyte is unreliable on several points, and I dunno what MSI's selling points are. There is one thing you can learn from this chart though, and that is that if you want to overclock on an ITX board, the Asrock Fatal1ty ITX/ac is the way to go. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jun 23, 2018 |
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Jun 23, 2018 00:05
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I'm looking for a replacement hard drive for my laptop, and debating between a Seagate Barracuda or an HGST Travelstar 5k 1000. I'm leaning toward the former because it's much cheaper, but the description of the Barracuda says it "enables efficient transfer speeds up to 140MB/sec," as opposed to the Travelstar's "Speeds up to 998MB/sec." Am I correct in assuming that these are measuring the same thing, and is running my computer that much slower something to be concerned about?
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Jun 23, 2018 00:06
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That’s pretty much why I was looking for that spreadsheet and what to take away from it. Thanks guys
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Jun 23, 2018 00:22
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Solitair posted:I'm looking for a replacement hard drive for my laptop, and debating between a Seagate Barracuda or an HGST Travelstar 5k 1000. I'm leaning toward the former because it's much cheaper, but the description of the Barracuda says it "enables efficient transfer speeds up to 140MB/sec," as opposed to the Travelstar's "Speeds up to 998MB/sec." Am I correct in assuming that these are measuring the same thing, and is running my computer that much slower something to be concerned about? The Travelstar's rating is actually 998 megabits per second, which is ~125 MB/sec. I suspect you'd get pretty similar performance from either drive. Where are you seeing the HGST as more expensive? They both seem to be ~$45 for the 1tb model. If you're willing to spend a little more money and have a little less space, ssds make everything much, much nicer. The Crucial MX500 is highly recommended and the 500GB model is $110. If space isn't a concern at all (i.e. you use network/cloud/external drives), the 250GB version is only $70.
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Jun 23, 2018 00:27
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Might be a thread on it but didn't see it, is there any point to invest in SLI at this point in time or is that pretty much a dead future with a 1080 ti or potential 1180 ti if can wait for it the smarter option.
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Jun 23, 2018 00:57
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Keltar posted:Might be a thread on it but didn't see it, is there any point to invest in SLI at this point in time or is that pretty much a dead future with a 1080 ti or potential 1180 ti if can wait for it the smarter option. Generally, unless you need something faster than a 1080 Ti, the best option is to upgrade to a faster card before messing with SLI. It's not good value and it's not a good experience due to bugs and poor performance scaling in many titles.
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Jun 23, 2018 01:15
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Do they have the Asrock Pro4 in the lower section just because it's sub 150W, or is there something else bad about it? It's the one I've been planning on getting but I've been humming and hawing over the past week about whether I wouldn't be better off paying $40 more for the Extreme4 instead. I wasn't planning on overclocking that much but on reflection I've also never had the ability to before, so I might change my mind quickly and I don't wanna be kicking myself for cheaping out.
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Jun 23, 2018 02:52
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Stickman posted:The Travelstar's rating is actually 998 megabits per second, which is ~125 MB/sec. I suspect you'd get pretty similar performance from either drive. Where are you seeing the HGST as more expensive? They both seem to be ~$45 for the 1tb model. I was checking Best Buy's store page. After I posted, I found a spare drive at my place, but I'll look into getting a solid state drive if I can afford one.
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Jun 23, 2018 03:17
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Koramei posted:Do they have the Asrock Pro4 in the lower section just because it's sub 150W, or is there something else bad about it? It's the one I've been planning on getting but I've been humming and hawing over the past week about whether I wouldn't be better off paying $40 more for the Extreme4 instead. I wasn't planning on overclocking that much but on reflection I've also never had the ability to before, so I might change my mind quickly and I don't wanna be kicking myself for cheaping out. I would pay extra for the better board. The VRM headroom not only helps with overclocking but may also enable you to upgrade to a higher core count CPU down the line.
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Jun 23, 2018 07:00
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eames posted:I would pay extra for the better board. Better mobo typically means better vrms and vrm ambient cooling which is starting to become known to be rather important in overclocking. One of those things most people including myself never even considered until a bunch of German electrical engineering nerds began running into problems with cheap boards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7BqAjC4ZCc
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Jun 23, 2018 08:45
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Koramei posted:Do they have the Asrock Pro4 in the lower section just because it's sub 150W, or is there something else bad about it? It's the one I've been planning on getting but I've been humming and hawing over the past week about whether I wouldn't be better off paying $40 more for the Extreme4 instead. I wasn't planning on overclocking that much but on reflection I've also never had the ability to before, so I might change my mind quickly and I don't wanna be kicking myself for cheaping out. It’s very hard to buy a bad Z370 board, they all have the same basic set of features just from the chipset itself, and few people need more. If you do need more it’s typically because you’be got some degree of customization or power user stuff going on, and you’ll know what you’re looking for. That being said, there is one thing that may be worth paying a bit extra for, and that’s CPU power delivery. The 6-cores in particular are quite capable of drawing far more power than they’re rated for if you let them. At stock settings they won’t use their max rated frequency for more than one core at a time. If you enable a setting usually called “multi-core enhancement” in the BIOS (on some boards this might even be on by default), that will allow the CPU to boost to its max stock clock speed on all cores at the same time, which means that on a 8700 you might be looking at a sustained power draw at least 25-30% higher than what its stock TDP rating would imply. The power delivery on low end boards usually can’t handle that for any extended period of time and you can end up with the VRM thermal throttling itself or even shutting down to protect itself. High thermal loads also wear on some components, capacitors in particular, so the board might end up giving up after a few years. If you’re overclocking at all, you will also want more power phases than the lowest end boards provide, to get more stable voltages with less ripple, to improve stability of the CPU. An underdimensioned VRM also puts out a bunch of heat when it’s heavily loaded, and you don’t want that. So, having explained a bunch of stuff you probably already knew, if you buy an i7 or intend to do any kind of overclocking on an i5, just spend the extra 30-40 bucks on an Extreme4 and save yourself the headache. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Jun 23, 2018 |
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Jun 23, 2018 09:50
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wow this Event ID 14 nvlddmkm issue just will not stop at this point I'm actively hoping it's bad ram or something what do folks do when faced with TDR crashes with no reliable trigger? e: memtest86+ reveals nothing. I've given up and just hiked the TdrDelay up to 8 seconds. I also picked through Device Manager, revealed disconnected devices and uninstalled everything I could recognize as belonging to my old motherboard. Hope flinging stuff at the wall until it sticks works out e#2: no dice, still crashing suddenly whilst browsing ronya fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jun 23, 2018 |
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Jun 23, 2018 12:36
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That’s the display driver hanging, isn’t it? Overclocked GPU? MSI Afterburner’s OSD? Any WHEA warnings in the event log? I’ve only had it happen with LuxMark (when running Realbench) and setting TdrDelay 8 fixed that.
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Jun 23, 2018 19:59
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If TheFluff is right and it's video, there's a whole host of video card related things to do. As a generic crashing issue, I always suggest turning off ALL overclocking, including memory XMP, and watching temperatures. Boy howdy though, graphics drivers are often an issue. Sometimes it's also a good sanity check to boot into linux and see if that is stable. https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-windows
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Jun 23, 2018 20:33
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CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7GHz 6-Core Processor ($339.99 @ Amazon) CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Amazon) Motherboard: Asus - Prime Z370-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($169.06 @ Amazon) Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z RGB 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($226.00 @ Amazon) Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($197.99 @ Amazon) Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8GB Video Card ($479.99 @ Amazon) Case: NZXT - S340 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($80.81 @ Amazon) Total: $1523.83 I've been kicking the tire for the past few months but I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger. Not sure if the motherboard is good. Basically I'm going to be doing 1080 gaming with a 144 hz monitor (so I want to make sure I always have my fps up). My biggest thing holding me back is that feeling right when you buy and then a new cpu or gpu comes out. It's irrational I know. Also is Amazon good for parts? I've only ever bought from Newegg.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:06
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TheFluff posted:So, having explained a bunch of stuff you probably already knew I did not  thanks a lot for the advice everyone!
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Jun 24, 2018 02:10
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Social Animal posted:CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7GHz 6-Core Processor ($339.99 @ Amazon) Amazon is fine for parts - the only potential hiccup might be if you're getting certain parts (like a monitor) which only honor your warranty if you purchase them from an official reseller, of which Amazon generally is for pretty much everything. Consider getting an H5 Ultimate over the Hyper 212 EVO for an 8700K. The 212 *technically* can handle what an 8700K can dish out, but an H5 Ultimate will perform better for an extra  . It's a larger HSF, so you might have to put the DIMMs in the second and fourth slots - or just pick up a set of Corsair LPX for a few bucks more and not worry about it at all.Also, consider getting an EVGA G3 PSU or the Seasonic Focus Plus series - the G3s recently got warranty bumps by EVGA - the G3s under 750W now have nine year warranties, and the 750W+ now have *twelve* year warranties. The Seasonics have 10 year warranties across the board, but on the G3s, you need to get the 750W to have the same amount of connections that the Seasonics provide at all SKUs. ----- Oh, and for those of you with one of them nearby - the 500GB Crucial MX500 (in 2.5" and M.2 2280), is $98.99 at Microcenter B&M stores. It's $109.99 on their website. $62.99 for the 250GB version - I didn't think to see if it was cheaper in-store. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 02:38
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Amazon is fine for parts - the only potential hiccup might be if you're getting certain parts (like a monitor) which only honor your warranty if you purchase them from an official reseller, of which Amazon generally is for pretty much everything. Perfect I'll add the the cooler and switch the ram out, thanks. Also was thinking about just going full on with a 1080ti, they seem to be going for about $850. Is it overkill? Also pretty much a good time right now to buy a cpu/gpu? I don't mind waiting a couple months since it's not urgent. Like I realize whatever top of the line I get right now will still be good for quite a while I just don't want to miss on a release that includes notable improvements.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:50
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Social Animal posted:Perfect I'll add the the cooler and switch the ram out, thanks. Also was thinking about just going full on with a 1080ti, they seem to be going for about $850. Is it overkill? Also pretty much a good time right now to buy a cpu/gpu? I don't mind waiting a couple months since it's not urgent. Like I realize whatever top of the line I get right now will still be good for quite a while I just don't want to miss on a release that includes notable improvements. Don't miss the extra little bit I just added about the PSUs. Also check out the EVGA G1+ - those also got warranty bumps, and they're decent units. Buy whichever has the best price pre-or-post-rebate. Case in point: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438132 Social Animal posted:Perfect I'll add the the cooler and switch the ram out, thanks. Also was thinking about just going full on with a 1080ti, they seem to be going for about $850. Is it overkill? Also pretty much a good time right now to buy a cpu/gpu? I don't mind waiting a couple months since it's not urgent. Like I realize whatever top of the line I get right now will still be good for quite a while I just don't want to miss on a release that includes notable improvements. GPUs are sort of getting back down in price. The 1080Tis which are worth buying are still north of $800 - it's the second-tier and blower-cooler ones which are under $800 at the moment and aren't recommended because of spotty warranty service or if your plan is to ditch the lovely stock cooler and put on an aftermarket HSF unit or dedicated CLC watercooling unit. It's a much better time to buy a GPU than it was over these past few months, for certain - and a "top tier" card manufacturer (people suspect it's Gigabyte) just sent 300,000 GPUs back to nVidia because of overstocks/returns. There's no way of knowing how nVidia's going to deal with that - but with a glut that big, we might be seeing a LOT of dirt-rear end-cheap cards in a few months time. The *bad* news about that is that they canceled their suspected product reveal for the next-gen in August. So no one really knows *when* nVidia will debut their next GPU - so there's no way of even suggesting you buy an EVGA card since no one can definitively say if you'll be able to use the Step Up program within 90 days. The current sweet spot is looking to be the 1080 (non-Ti) again. Those are starting to flirt with ~$479 after promo codes and the like. We'll probably have 1070s reliably back below $400 in a few weeks' time, too. As for whether a 1080Ti is overkill - it really depends on what kind of display you'll be running. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 02:57
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Don't miss the extra little bit I just added about the PSUs. Also check out the EVGA G1+ - those also got warranty bumps, and they're decent units. Buy whichever has the best price pre-or-post-rebate. Swapped in the G3 definitely worth it and it's not even that much more. Still thinking about GPUs after what you said. I may just upgrade that later then or just do the 1080. I'll think about it today and tomorrow then just order away. edit: nevermind about the Windows 10 key, got that sorted out. Social Animal fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 03:56
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Event ID 14 update: This was set to Optimal; I set it to "Prefer maximum performance" and the crashing hasn't happened since  Am now trying "Adaptive" to see what happens e: apparently "Adaptive" means "crash within ten minutes" I guess I will have to live with full power and blower at max speed until I can figure out what is presumably causing overenthusiastic throttling ronya fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 11:32
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I worked on my setup again, would you guys take another look at it?
Here's the link: https://www.alternate.at/html/configurator/builder/loadSharedConfiguration.html?kind=pcBuilder&id=e478648c67d1d16b7fd1d16c13dceb01 I'm still not sure if 16 GB RAM is good or if I should go for 32. I'm not a gamer, what kind of setups do 32 GB make sense for?
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Jun 24, 2018 16:46
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You need to use a paired kit of memory. 2x8gb probably. 32 gb is pretty expensive and you can upgrade in the future if you need it. You don't need that fancy gaming motherboard either. 32GB is the sort of thing that you should know if you need. If you do certain types of data workloads or run very high spec virtual machines. If you don't game, the 1060 is overkill as well. LRADIKAL fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 18:12
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Ophidia posted:I'm still not sure if 16 GB RAM is good or if I should go for 32. I'm not a gamer, what kind of setups do 32 GB make sense for? 32GB of RAM doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense for gaming at the moment. Higher speed does - specifically for minimum and average FPS. Also, the newer Ryzens perform better with faster memory, but anything over 3200Mhz, and you start to run into diminishing returns. Also, be sure to check the ASUS website for that X470 board. There'll be something on the downloads section called a "QVL sheet." That lists all the RAM ASUS has personally tested in the board and found to work without issue. The second generation Ryzens are way less finicky than the first-gens, but it still makes sense to buy RAM that's on the sheet - even though I'm sure that G.Skill set will be. Really the only thing 32GB of RAM is good for at the moment is database/VM work and having enough of it to spare that you could make a RAMDisk for notoriously resource-hungry Adobe apps when working with large file sizes. The only time 32GB factors into gaming is when the game's coded poorly and has a memory leak.
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Jun 24, 2018 18:16
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LRADIKAL posted:You don't need that fancy gaming motherboard either. Thank you for the hint. What motherboard would you recommend ?
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Jun 24, 2018 19:55
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I don't have a particular board recommendation for you, Ophidia. I believe there are plenty of x350 boards that are cheaper and support Ryzen 2700's. My turn! I'm looking at a Fatl1ty X470 mini-itx and I want to cram 3466mhz, 2x8GB RAM in there. The QVL list is pretty crummy for actual availability. I pulled some of the QVL'd high speed memory out into a spreadsheet, but it's pretty low choice overall. Suggestions on non-QVL memory to roll the dice with instead? Here's what I have so far. bit.ly/2Kgn35G Motherboard in question: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157837
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Jun 24, 2018 20:23
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LRADIKAL posted:You don't need that fancy gaming motherboard either. I really have no idea which motherboard to choose. I tried to google but I can't really see the difference, so I feel really insecure at choosing one. Could someone help me with this? I agree, I do not need a gaming motherboard, so at first I thought maybe ASUS PRIME X470-PRO - but I really have no idea what the difference is. What is better, for what purposes, etc? I would be grateful for any advice.
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Jun 24, 2018 20:54
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BIG HEADLINE, thanks again for the help. I ordered the parts (everything arrives on Tuesday except the case on Wednesday...) and finally glad I did it. For the GPU I decided to go with a 1070ti, I decided that since I’m sticking to 1080p it should be good enough. I just couldn’t justify spending any more.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:41
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Ophidia posted:I really have no idea which motherboard to choose. I tried to google but I can't really see the difference, so I feel really insecure at choosing one. Could someone help me with this? I agree, I do not need a gaming motherboard, so at first I thought maybe ASUS PRIME X470-PRO - but I really have no idea what the difference is. What is better, for what purposes, etc? The only caveat with a B350 is that older ones may need to be updated to support a 2000 series CPU. The one below claims compatibility out of the box. If they DO need to be updated, AMD has been sending out old chips that allow you to run the firmware update! Not convenient, but not the end of the world either. https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/2Gen-Ryzen-AM4-System-Bootup.aspx https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813157761 Here's some more examples of decent, cheaper mobos. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119020 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144080 I know you're in a strange foreign land, so I hope you can make an informed decision from this information. edit: since you haven't acknowledged RAM discussion, let me be clear: for 16GB of RAM (which should be plenty) make sure you are buying a paired kit like below https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232315 LRADIKAL fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 22:37
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sigh more Event ID 14: "Prefer maximum performance" turned out to be a fluke. It began hanging again today. Downgraded to 397.93, which was stable under my old motherboard
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Jun 25, 2018 14:29
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So, I'm a moron who let my infant son within arms reach of my beer which splashed into the top vent of my case. A split second (and a few sizzles and crackles) later my screen was black and I couldn't get anything to display on my monitor. After much hair-drying, praying and troubleshooting I finally conceded that my system was toast. I REALLY didn't want to have to spend a lot of money to get this thing working again. Especially due to that fact that my Infant son, RAM and GPU's are stupid expensive right now. My last MOBO, CPU, RAM upgrade was only about 18 months ago. A Z270, core i3 and DDR4-3000 respectively. I decided to try a new Z270 MOBO first along with a new Cooler Master case since my last one was really showing its age after 8 years of reuse. After installing the new MOBO however I still have no display on my monitor (which I confirmed is in working order) even after trying both the old GPU and the on-board graphics. So now I'm left with trying to purchase more parts and piecing something together unless someone has some suggestions I have not thought of. What country are you in? USA What are you using the system for? Gaming What's your budget? less than $1,000 but lower is better. If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? 1920x1080 Here is what i have come up with so far. Intel - Core i5-7400T 2.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ASRock - Z270M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory EVGA - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SC GAMING Video Card Cooler Master - N200 MicroATX Mini Tower Case EVGA - SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply Total $911.32 I'm next going to try to install the Core i5 to see if that is the culprit but honestly I have no idea if any parts from the old comp would be salvageable. Any suggestions or input would be very appreciated. Thanks.
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Jun 25, 2018 16:53
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What's the downside to using an older board with the new Ryzens? Right now I have an ASRock AB350 Pro4 with a 1600 and was considering upgrading. Are the 6 core ones still solid for gaming or is there some reason to go to 8?
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Jun 25, 2018 20:11
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Dredge posted:So, I'm a moron who let my infant son within arms reach of my beer which splashed into the top vent of my case. A split second (and a few sizzles and crackles) later my screen was black and I couldn't get anything to display on my monitor. After much hair-drying, praying and troubleshooting I finally conceded that my system was toast. If you're going to be getting a new system, I would try to return the z270 motherboard and pick up a z370. If you want to go mATX, Newegg has a mobo/8400/16GB for $461 - a $10 rebate that would end up being ~$30 cheaper and more powerful than the build you've selected (though with 3000 RAM instead of 3200, a very minor difference). They also have the Seasonic Focus Gold Plus 550W for $65 after rebate, which would be more than sufficient for your system. If you'd be happy with your old graphics card, I'd hold off purchasing a new one until you verify that it doesn't work. Use the integrated GPU when you put together the new system to verify that everything is working, then try your old graphics card. If you need to buy a new one you want to save $50-100, you might consider buying used. Gigabyte & MSI offer automatically transferable warranties based on manufacture ship date, and most of those cards should have 2-2.5 years of warranty remaining. EVGA sort of has transferable warranty, but you need to have a copy of the original sale receipt from an authorized reseller.
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Jun 25, 2018 20:38
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Also, a -T series processor is probably a bad idea for any sort of gaming. They are both slower and (normally) more expensive than the non-T version. Mostly you see them used on SFF PCs with very limited thermal envelopes, but that's not an issue in your build. If you still want to try salvaging your system, I'd say try a new PSU next, followed by new memory. Use the iGPU to rule out the possibility of the GPU being dead. You don't have to do a big-bang rebuild, you can try one part at a time and see if there's anything you can salvage out of your old system. Doing SFF isn't all that tricky if you've done some builds before, but it does tend to get expensive, because you need specific parts that fit your enclosure/etc rather than just "the cheapest cooler and PSU I could find on Newegg" or whatever. They are also very fiddly to put together. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jun 25, 2018 |
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Jun 25, 2018 20:44
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