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Oh hello better thread, I didn't know you existed! (I looked into TBB for "the book thread, stupid me ...)
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Jun 25, 2018 12:34
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I don't see how they make it work without the time jump. With the life extension drugs they could get away with fairly light old people makeup, some creases and graying hair would do.
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Jun 25, 2018 12:40
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They'll just say that whatever alien spaceship factory they found on Laconia made ships really fast and then ran out of juice(to avoid the question of why they don't keep spamming ships). A 30-year time skip would mean either putting everyone in old people makeup which would be dumb and a pain in the rear end from a production point of view, or handwaving it away with anti-aging drugs which would also be dumb. They might shorten it to like 10 years so they don't have to age the actors but even then I don't see it working very well. The timeskip was a bad idea in the books and it would be so much worse in the show.
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Jun 25, 2018 12:46
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That's also missing the Transport Union, the characters in new positions, Earth's recovery, all the stuff that happens outside Laconia. Like I won't be surprised if they change it but it would require a rework of the entire storyline. A big part is it totally changes the dynamic. Laconia rolling in on the rest of humanity when they had just finally gotten their poo poo together and made things work is completely different than Laconia rolling in on a post-apocalyptic nightmarescape and saying hey we'll fix this up.
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Jun 25, 2018 12:48
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They could squeeze all those things into a tighter, or at least more vague, timeframe. There will probably be some kind of timeskip but even if they state exactly how long it is I don't see them aging up the actors.
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Jun 25, 2018 13:23
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dogboy posted:Oh hello better thread, I didn't know you existed! (I looked into TBB for "the book thread, stupid me ...) There's also a TBB thread, but this one is kinda eating its lunch.
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Jun 25, 2018 14:06
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Yeah the 30 year timeskip is sorta required to get humanity into the state necessary for the story of the last 3 books. I'm guessing that the next book or two are gonna involve setting up a resistance network across the few hundred human colonies with tens if not hundreds of millions of people, which you kinda need 30 years to develop, and seems like an integral part of the setting.
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Jun 25, 2018 14:16
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah the 30 year timeskip is sorta required to get humanity into the state necessary for the story of the last 3 books. I'm guessing that the next book or two are gonna involve setting up a resistance network across the few hundred human colonies with tens if not hundreds of millions of people, which you kinda need 30 years to develop, and seems like an integral part of the setting. Nah, the next book or two are going to be more about the protomolecule killers coming after Laconia. They will be greeted as liberators.
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Jun 25, 2018 14:44
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Unless the show rapidly decreases in quality and it's not getting Amazon anything beyond the good vibes they got for saving it I fully expect them to adapt all 9 books. I think you get away with any make-up issues by just bringing up the anti-aging drugs as a thing, maybe you tie that in to proto-molecule tech to make it seem even more advanced and effective. As far as I know it's far easier to age up than age down with makeup and hair. There's plenty of sci-fi shows that have actors in the make-up chair for hours every work day, I think it wouldn't be all that difficult and the main cast have all proven to be big fans of the show, so I don't think some extra makeup is going to sink that enthusiasm. I also don't see any budget issue there since it's hard to imagine anyone being on board with paying for fantastical alien worlds and spaceships but balking at using makeup techniques that have been around for decades. If it was my call I'd do the full 30-year skip since it does get across that things are finally settling in to a normal working order before Laconia pops in to wreck stuff, and you don't resolve the dual issues of "mass migration to alien worlds" and "Earth is proper hosed" in a decade. At any rate they've improved on the books many times so far, I trust them to have figured out the right approach to that material when they get to it. It's also worth noting that's still two seasons away at least, I actually think it'll be more like three seasons off personally, so on top of having time to think about it all the books should be done or very nearly done by then based on how quickly they've come out so far, so they'll have a full roadmap to work with to the end and can plan accordingly.
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Jun 25, 2018 14:54
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Another angle I haven't seen mentioned is that the 30-year skip is necessary for much of Laconia's society and characterization too. Duarte has not only those who followed him there, but now also an entire generation of soldiers and workers born shortly before or during the events of the earlier books, and thus fully indoctrinated (see e.g. Singh). Without that aspect you lose a lot of what makes some characters on that side interesting, and the character work is (at least from the perspective of the showrunners) one of the big things that sets the show apart from its brethren.
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Jun 25, 2018 16:07
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Grand Fromage posted:I don't see how they make it work without the time jump. With the life extension drugs they could get away with fairly light old people makeup, some creases and graying hair would do. This is what I'm thinking, just give everyone a touch of grey around the temples and handwave some future aging drugs. I don't think it'll be all that hard to accept, we're already living in the future with advanced technology and magic alien space magic. Why wouldn't the average 50-year-old look like they're in their thirties by then? Or maybe the Roci crew had to go underground for a while in the meantime and Holden got plastic surgery and then you can just recast 
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Jun 25, 2018 18:08
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Phenotype posted:This is what I'm thinking, just give everyone a touch of grey around the temples and handwave some future aging drugs. I don't think it'll be all that hard to accept, we're already living in the future with advanced technology and magic alien space magic. Why wouldn't the average 50-year-old look like they're in their thirties by then? Ew, recasting would not be a good idea. It's also a possibility they just speed up the time jump. What if they just made it 15 or 20 years instead?
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Jun 26, 2018 01:01
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duarte's more like space napoleon than hitler. having read a fair amount of biography of the corsican, listening to Persepolis Rising at least I could see traits and practices i expect the authors pulled directly from napoleon. i don't think it's a coincidence that duarte is officially the 'high consul' of laconia, more or less what napoleon called himself when he first made himself dictator of france, while everyone who refers to him in conversation with others calls him 'emperor' as a matter of course, the title napoleon ended up assuming. the pen is probably worse than anything napoleon directly ordered on a human rights violation level, but it's not much worse marco inaros on the other hand is space hitler in a very specific, biographical sense, all the way. i really enjoyed the touch during his presentation to the other free navy leaders of him conflating belters with medieval and early-modern Afghanistan, including his facile and limited understanding of that region's actual history. the flare for ginning up salutes and uniforms, the self-editing memory to reframe every defeat as part of the larger plan, he'd be hitler as a leadership profile even without the meteor genocide
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Jun 26, 2018 01:32
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bitprophet posted:an entire generation of soldiers and workers born shortly before or during the events of the earlier books, and thus fully indoctrinated (see e.g. Singh). This is the big one for me. An entire generation in Laconia that know nothing but the eternal god-emperor. An entire generation on Earth that know nothing but post-rock droppin' Earth. A generation of Belters that only know the "new belt". Personally I think they'll either just add some grey hair, or perhaps they'll have access to a less powerful version of the PM youth serum Duarte has. Something that fends off old age for a while but doesn't make you immortal.
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Jun 27, 2018 06:49
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people would riot if they recast the characters.
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Jun 27, 2018 06:56
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From the other thread:PriorMarcus posted:I'm calling Bull. 
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Jun 27, 2018 22:30
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:From the other thread: That's all I needed.
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Jun 27, 2018 22:39
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"What were you expecting? mutiny?" God damm, they are playing with us now.
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Jun 28, 2018 02:23
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drewhead posted:"What were you expecting? mutiny?" And with Drummer too. "I'll live."
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Jun 28, 2018 03:59
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Loved how they changed Ashford/Drummer. Glad everyone big survived but imma be v worried about my boy Diogo for the next 8-16 months...
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Jun 28, 2018 04:31
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Loved how they changed Ashford/Drummer. Glad everyone big survived but imma be v worried about my boy Diogo for the next 8-16 months... If he did survive, there's no way he doesn't wind up with Marco.
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Jun 28, 2018 04:36
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Is Ashford going to be Duarte now? They explicitly show that he's still on the Behemoth with Drummer, and he does this little turn away from her in the last shot that implies... something. And now he's hanging out in ringspace with nowhere to go. I did want at least one proper scene with Melba and Amos actually chatting, but I dunno where they would have fit it in. Though don't they mostly bond in the couple-month trip from the ring back to Luna? Not sure if that's something the show could fit in anywhere.
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Jun 28, 2018 07:17
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NmareBfly posted:Is Ashford going to be Duarte now? They explicitly show that he's still on the Behemoth with Drummer, and he does this little turn away from her in the last shot that implies... something. I don't see how he gets hold of all the resources Duarte needed to get his empire started. I took his turn at the end to mean shame. Can't be an easy thing to know you almost got all of humanity killed. I'm hoping he stays around in some capacity though because the actor is great. That was one hell of a finale to a great season. They really keep even us bookreaders guessing. I was already thinking "well at least Drummer gets a worthy sendoff" and then elevator crush rear end to dust.
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Jun 28, 2018 07:50
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Presumably Ashford will take the place of Jak in Babylons Ashes or I guess, maybe, he will be on the slug planet next season having left out of shame. I wonder what will make Drummer sign up with Marco?
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Jun 28, 2018 09:21
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Who will run Medina? Ashford probably not after he almost killed everyone, Drummer would be a possibility but having her command a desk would get old quickly (though 1-2 episodes of admin poo poo piling up on an increasingly exasperated Drummer's desk would be funny, until she gets relieved by whoever actually wants the job), but apart from that we have no major characters who'd step up to run the place.PriorMarcus posted:Presumably Ashford will take the place of Jak in Babylons Ashes or I guess, maybe, he will be on the slug planet next season having left out of shame. I guess during the Cibola Burn episodes we'll have a B plot about how anger rises in the Belt and Mars as they struggle to stay relevant in a post-rockhopper/duster world. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 12:24
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
The last five seconds of the episode or so includes the drat thing that's eating the ships! 
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Jun 28, 2018 12:51
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I understand what all needed to go down, but I did find Ashford an odd pivot from "Everything we do is so we can live one more day" to "We're going to do this one thing that's pretty much going to limit the number of days we live".
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Jun 28, 2018 13:17
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He went from trying to save their lives to saving the lives of the rest of humanity. I really liked the way it played out because he wasn't panicking, he just picked the option that seemed more likely than Holden's crazy person ramblings. Also Holden really needs to get better at explaining things. Maybe instead of "dead guy told me" go with "the station is using an illusion of a dead guy it ate to communicate with me". Sure it's still out there but it at least sounds more believable.
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Jun 28, 2018 13:25
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bloom posted:Also Holden really needs to get better at explaining things. Maybe instead of "dead guy told me" go with "the station is using an illusion of a dead guy it ate to communicate with me". Sure it's still out there but it at least sounds more believable. Yeah, this was driving me a little nuts for the past few episodes. You don't start with "I've been talking to a ghost," you say "the protomolecule is trying to communicate with me because I've had enough experience with it that it recognizes me." Then, after they've heard the whole story and they're not looking at you like a crazy person, maybe you mention that it shows up as Miller. Maybe. If it's at all relevant, which to this point it hasn't been. And you mention that its because the PM absorbed him on Eros and is using a facsimile to communicate with humans, not because you're a crazy person who talks to ghosts. drewhead posted:I understand what all needed to go down, but I did find Ashford an odd pivot from "Everything we do is so we can live one more day" to "We're going to do this one thing that's pretty much going to limit the number of days we live". This made perfect sense, though. He swapped goals after they detonated the nuke and the station started charging up. The tech told him it was like the station was radiating electromagnetic waves (or whatever) like a railgun that was focused on the gate, and it didn't take much of a leap for Ashford to realize that was the cauterizing weapon that Holden said had blown up entire solar systems. At that point, who cares about a few thousand people floating in ringspace, let's just try to save humanity. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 13:53
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Phenotype posted:Yeah, this was driving me a little nuts for the past few episodes. You don't start with "I've been talking to a ghost," you say "the protomolecule is trying to communicate with me because I've had enough experience with it that it recognizes me." Then, after they've heard the whole story and they're not looking at you like a crazy person, maybe you mention that it shows up as Miller. Maybe. If it's at all relevant, which to this point it hasn't been. And you mention that its because the PM absorbed him on Eros and is using a facsimile to communicate with humans, not because you're a crazy person who talks to ghosts. I didn't mind it at first because Holden didn't know what was going on, but once Miller explained it all to him it really started feeling like lazy writing. The show is generally good about not creating drama by having characters not talk to each other so it stands out. Amos of all people explained his reasoning for spacing the reporter and camera dude in a very clear manner. Holden should at least be capable of the same level of communication. bloom fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 14:07
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Some stuff I found. "The fourth book, Cibola Burn, takes place pretty much all on the planet Ilus, or in orbit of that planet. Will that be the same deal here? Is that going to be the battleground and the space version of expanding west? [Book authors] Ty and Daniel often refer to the story of Ilus and Cibola Burn as kind of a classic Western in many ways. The book Cibola takes place entirely on Ilus. We are there for one complete novel. We are going to tell that story in season 4, sure, but we’re not leaving Earth and Mars and the Belt behind. They’re part of the story, and both of fans of the books and fans of the show are going to see something really interesting and new in season 4. What about some characters that don’t play a big role in the next book and what your plans may or may not be for them? Let’s start with Bobbie: Are you going to accelerate her becoming a crew-member on the Roci? Well, Bobbie is most definitely in season 4. I don’t want to give too many spoilers about what happens with her, but there are novellas that Ty and Daniel have written as well that we’ve built to the narrative. There are things that we can explore because, again, the idea that these new habitable worlds that have opened up through the Ring gate, that destabilizes Earth and the Belt as well as Mars. We’ve never been to Mars, really. We’ve never been to the planet Mars in the course of the series. I’ll leave it at that." So sounds like they're going to have the Bobbie novella where she's on Mars happening during season four, which would make sense because they can also fold in Avasarala's investigation at the same time and get that going while Ilus is happening.
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Jun 28, 2018 14:54
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Hopefully they're not going to do most of season 4 on the ground (Ilus, Earth, Mars), because I'd expect this to make it lose its appeal. Because then it'll start treading on Stargate levels.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:00
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:imma be v worried about my boy Diogo for the next 8-16 months... Oh he's totally dead... That little fucker was smirking way to much to survive. 
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Jun 28, 2018 17:37
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Oh he's totally dead... Suit kept Bobbie alive from a similar impact. 
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Jun 28, 2018 18:13
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Combat Pretzel posted:Hopefully they're not going to do most of season 4 on the ground (Ilus, Earth, Mars), because I'd expect this to make it lose its appeal. Because then it'll start treading on Stargate levels. Quote =! Edit but I don't think this will happen. Even if we see some skylines for a bit, the show has always been character driven, and enough crazy SciFi stuff happens on Ilus to keep the show visually interesting. Spice that up by having Bobbie or Ava chase down the missing ships and introduce Marcos/Filip earlier and S4 looks dope af.
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Jun 28, 2018 18:15
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Suit kept Bobbie alive from a similar impact.
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Jun 28, 2018 18:52
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Milky Moor posted:The last five seconds of the episode or so includes the drat thing that's eating the ships! Yeah that definitely looked like them foreshadowing the "bullets". Also liked them mentioning the system destroying weapon as being magnet-based since it sets up the Laconian weapons later on.
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Jun 29, 2018 02:05
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Cool finale. Bit rushed from cramming one book into half a season, and I thought Ashford's move from "we have to destroy the Ring" (which I thought by itself was well set up and made sense from his perspective) to "KILL EVERYONE WHO TRIES TO STOP ME" was pretty sudden, but it was overall really good and did proud one of my favorite climaxes in the series. Also  Diogo. And Anna owns. And alien bullet .I'm thinking Ashford takes on the Michio Pa role from here.
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Jun 29, 2018 02:15
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Lord Hydronium posted:I'm thinking Ashford takes on the Michio Pa role from here. good for him, i look forward to meeting his half-dozen husbands and wives
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Jun 29, 2018 02:50
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Lord Hydronium posted:Cool finale. Bit rushed from cramming one book into half a season, and I thought Ashford's move from "we have to destroy the Ring" (which I thought by itself was well set up and made sense from his perspective) to "KILL EVERYONE WHO TRIES TO STOP ME" was pretty sudden, but it was overall really good and did proud one of my favorite climaxes in the series. I thought it made sense, it was fast but it was only when he was getting pushed into a position where it looked like if anything more went wrong that they would be unable to fire the laser again. Which makes sense, he said he wasn't sure if Holden was even himself anymore, for all he knew the ring was controlling him to make the destruction of the ships safer by shutting down the drives. And with the protection of all humanity on the line he gave that order only when that was truly at risk.
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Jun 29, 2018 02:56
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