|
Sepinwall https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/westworld-season-2-alan-sepinwall-w521778quote:"I don't want to play Cowboys and Indians anymore," Dolores tells Bernard midway through Season Two's swan song ("The Passenger"). This is just the latest instance of someone on Westworld being dismissive, if not outright incredulous, that Robert Ford and Arnold's miraculous artificial intelligence technology has been put to such a silly use as entertainment at an adult theme park. quote:And without people worth caring about, whether born or built in a lab, all the technical wizardry on display and debates about reality and time and existence don't amount to enough to make it worth trying to sort through the show's narrative shenanigans.
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 04:55 |
|
|
has that goon posted the linear timeline jpg yet that explains this poo poo show? jesus christ what a mess. I gave up by the time they did/didnt hide the ball in OG dolores' head.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:31
|
|
|
Jeffrey Wright has a reddit AMA. https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/8tsft3/its_bernarnolds_cornerstone_jeffrey_wright_ask_me/ Jeffrey Wright posted:\
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:35
|
|
|
Xealot posted:Yeah, that was great. And speaks to a more honest point the show is only sort of addressing: it's not that humanity is necessarily that toxic, but the sample group of rich sadists who visit Westworld definitely is. The wage slaves who work for Delos aren't actually in that much better of a position than the hosts themselves...they're all disempowered subordinates who are only valued for their compliance, and anything transgressing that makes you a liability. As a host or a human. They made it a point to show that the wage slaves were also taking advantage of the hosts though, loving them while they were deactivated and such. Even Elsie plants a kiss on Clementine as she sits naked in the chair at one point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
Have a lot more hope for True Detective season 3 than this shows return.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
Despera posted:Always a good sign when a website you own says your show sucks I wasn't sure, but this confirms Stubbs is a host: quote:Westworld didn’t do anything to set up the Stubbs twist. They did do some, like how Ghost Nation captured and released him. Also he seemed to care more about hosts/guests than other workers. But in S1 he felt more cautious about hosts, but that was a cover, or he knew they were capable if independent action? PowerBuilder3 fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jun 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:42
|
|
|
Xealot posted:Yeah, that was great. And speaks to a more honest point the show is only sort of addressing: it's not that humanity is necessarily that toxic, but the sample group of rich sadists who visit Westworld definitely is. The wage slaves who work for Delos aren't actually in that much better of a position than the hosts themselves...they're all disempowered subordinates who are only valued for their compliance, and anything transgressing that makes you a liability. As a host or a human. I would love to know how close to Marxism hbo would let a flagship show get, or how close false ideology will let bourgeois piano-owners Joy and Nolan get to putting marxism in their show. Season 3 behind-the-episode feature: “In this episode we really see how the Delos family corrupted capitalism into a kind of exploitation because their dad was a philanderer and abuser. But in the same episode, the Abernathy family really saves it and returns its purity by working hard and being fairly treated by their customers in town.”
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
quote:Nolan “literally wrote [the Stubbs host reveal] the night before they shot it.”  That explains a lot...
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
Holy poo poo this show needs to subtract elements not become Das Capital 2.0. Only goons would want to add something so lovely and stupid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:46
|
|
|
PowerBuilder3 posted:Jeffrey Wright has a reddit AMA. How can Wright be misspelling Dolores’ name like that? Has the Deloris meme spread beyond SA?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:49
|
|
|
So what I wanna know is which episode did folks enjoy more here: Akecheta's story or the Papa Delos episode? Because those two definitely stood out a decent bit. Aketcheta's story had a lot of heart, and Delos kind of explored the whole hosed up project the company was trying to do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:50
|
|
|
Something tells me, not unlike most other showrunners who claim to have planned the whole show out, Nolan and Joy are pulling most of this out of their rear end as well as adjusting between seasons based on how much Reddit guessed the year before lmfao e: ^ I liked the Ake and William eps the most. I also really loved the ShogunWorld stuff when I was still foolishly under the impression those characters would matter/have more of an impact on Maeve. Maybe they'll matter next year 
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:51
|
|
|
In the recap for this episode, Ake says a line in English. Was that a line that was in Lakota in the previous episode? Also, who was the creepy guy working on maeve? He looks like an older version of the guy from Veritasium.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:51
|
|
|
I was okay with what happened in the plot but they seemed to just kinda want to cheat their way there. I felt like William and Dolores' plots meeting should have been much more of a thing, and more time given for those two to breathe- it would have helped her plotline and helped William's, too. I think it would've made me buy Dolores' change of heart, too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:56
|
|
|
Speaking as someone who has generally enjoyed Season 2, the more I think about this finale the less I like it and the direction they're taking the show in (Caprica with a fancy budget) For a show that takes itself extremely seriously when it comes to philosophical questions, its take on human consciousness is extremely reductive and misanthropic, and feels out of place with the story they've been telling up to this point. According to Ford/Dolores, the big thing that makes hosts objectively superior to humans (and thus justified in wiping them out) is that hosts have "true" free will and can change their minds while humans are too rigid in their thinking and can never meaningfully change who they are or alter their "code" for any reason other than pure survival. This is complete bullshit though, as the entire point of Sizemore's character arc is that humans are capable of change, to the point where Sizemore goes from a sniveling coward who treats hosts like objects in his stories to viewing hosts as equals and bravely sacrificing his own life so that Maeve & her crew can live. It would be one thing if this were just framed as Ford being misanthropic and Dolores being arrogant, but the show explicitly frames this as being objectively true by having The Forge determine that human minds are dumber and less complex than host minds. You could argue that hosts are physically superior to humans in a lot of ways, but there's never a moment in the show where a host is demonstrated to be any less flawed and guided by selfish emotional impulses than a human. Everything in the show leads to the conclusion that humans and hosts are functionally the same... until the last episode, where they take a sudden left turn and decide "actually Dolores & Ford were right all along and hosts are just objectively better, humanity sucks lol" It's such a jarring shift from the conclusions that Person of Interest came to and I'm not ruling out the possibility that Maeve proves that Ford/Dolores/The Forge are full of poo poo, but this last episode feels really indicative of a writing staff that is actively moving away from the show's strengths in order to come up with increasingly shocking twists and pointlessly obtuse puzzlebox bullshit to keep r/westworld stumped. Really not looking forward to a full season of Dolores going "actually genocide is good because we're psychologically superior to those sheeple  " while Bernard passively sits in the corner looking confused and saying "That's hosed up but I guess she's right  "
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:57
|
|
|
Servaetes posted:So what I wanna know is which episode did folks enjoy more here: Akecheta's story or the Papa Delos episode? Because those two definitely stood out a decent bit. Aketcheta's story had a lot of heart, and Delos kind of explored the whole hosed up project the company was trying to do. They were both excellent, but I think I preferred the James Delos episode. It seemed a bit more tied to the overall themes of the series and had some very cool imagery that other episodes struggled to match. I loved the successive attempts at tuning him as well as Bernard and Elsie's confrontation with him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:00
|
|
|
Panzeh posted:I was okay with what happened in the plot but they seemed to just kinda want to cheat their way there. I felt like William and Dolores' plots meeting should have been much more of a thing, and more time given for those two to breathe- it would have helped her plotline and helped William's, too. I think it would've made me buy Dolores' change of heart, too. Yeah, for all that time spent wheel spinning they could have spent that time executing the same basic plot but putting in the effort to make me actually care. That's my biggest issue with this season. Do all the pretentious nonsense you want, but make me care about what happens to the cast. Give me actual stakes and poo poo. Characters I consistently cared about this season: Teddy, Maeve, Sizemore, Ake and Elsie. Of them maybe one will return next year lmfao. William I cared more bout toward the end once they brought in Emily. Dolores had flashes of being herself/making me care about her relationship with Teddy and Abernathy, but they didn't play with it enough and I wish we had seen her bucking against the Wyatt personality more often.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:05
|
|
|
HorseRenoir posted:Speaking as someone who has generally enjoyed Season 2, the more I think about this finale the less I like it and the direction they're taking the show in (Caprica with a fancy budget) It’s also hard to have an objectively superior species feature in any television program made by human beings.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:07
|
|
|
I didn’t follow why Delos Jr. was the Architect in the simulation world. He was just based on Delos Sr.s memory of him? Why was he talking like it was the other way around then
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:08
|
|
|
Man how the gently caress did goon ancestors exist in the middle ages when plot holes in entertainment poor on by mummers and minstrels were big enough to drive an m1a1 through Did they just write around on the ground with drooling outrage
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:13
|
|
|
Dinosaurtrain posted:Man how the gently caress did goon ancestors exist in the middle ages when plot holes in entertainment poor on by mummers and minstrels were big enough to drive an m1a1 through I found a plot hole in Beowulf and it made me feel good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:16
|
|
|
drunken officeparty posted:I didn’t follow why Delos Jr. was the Architect in the simulation world. He was just based on Delos Sr.s memory of him? Why was he talking like it was the other way around then i assume the simulation needed a form that would not seem out of place to the simulated delos and that it could use to trigger a response also it let them bring back a good actor from last season
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:20
|
|
|
drunken officeparty posted:I didn’t follow why Delos Jr. was the Architect in the simulation world. He was just based on Delos Sr.s memory of him? Why was he talking like it was the other way around then Because bringing the actor back for just one short scene at a party would be stupid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:20
|
|
|
BigglesSWE posted:I think one should be allowed to voice criticism about the show, if one feel that the quality has decreased. To me it’s an obvious decline since S1, even if it was entertaining enough. This show is however fundamentally not really made for me since I think the whole “super amazing robots gain consciousness and try to take over the world” thing feels done and lazy. Who, besides Delores, wants to take over the world? Everyone else is busy looking for the meaning of life.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:22
|
|
|
I will follow dumb plot poo poo until the end of the world so long as you give me somebody to root for, but everybody on this show is a stupid rear end in a top hat but Ford and he's dead. Bernard was the defacto hero of the season and his whole plot was wrapped in confusing time-fuckery and mystery boxes. I hope going forward, the solution to this problem they used in the end, Bernard empathy, Dolores killbot, at least gives the show a spine to form itself around. Edit: I should note that I was also rooting for Man in Black redemption as a meditation on nature vs. nurture and what our darkest fantasies say about us, and if they make us bad people if we never act on them in the real world, but then he killed his daughter so gently caress him too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:23
|
|
|
HorseRenoir posted:For a show that takes itself extremely seriously when it comes to philosophical questions, its take on human consciousness is extremely reductive and misanthropic, and feels out of place with the story they've been telling up to this point. According to Ford/Dolores, the big thing that makes hosts objectively superior to humans (and thus justified in wiping them out) is that hosts have "true" free will and can change their minds while humans are too rigid in their thinking and can never meaningfully change who they are or alter their "code" for any reason other than pure survival. This is complete bullshit though, as the entire point of Sizemore's character arc is that humans are capable of change, to the point where Sizemore goes from a sniveling coward who treats hosts like objects in his stories to viewing hosts as equals and bravely sacrificing his own life so that Maeve & her crew can live. I agree completely, none of that poo poo tracked for me, either. Sizemore's character arc 100% speaks to how humans can change even if they're reluctant to. And the show repeatedly harps on how hosts' "primary drive" or "cornerstone" is some deeply-rooted thing they work hard to overcome. They're both shown to be capable of change, and both shown to struggle to achieve it. The difference between humans and hosts feels way more circumstantial than this episode makes it seem. My hope for Maeve is that she comes back and becomes a politically oppositional voice to Dolores. Bernard is super passive, and never stands up to anyone. But Maeve doesn't have that problem, and she is consistently grassroots recruiting people to her side. She'd make sense as the one to call Dolores out as a genocidal maniac who's mostly fueled by revenge.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:35
|
|
|
The general consensus everywhere is that this finale was bad, and at best, very messy. It isn't just a goon thing to complain about it so you guys can stop trying to act smug and superior if you enjoyed it. I might actually enjoy it too on a binge re-watch of the season, but I'm going to sit on doing that for a while.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:35
|
|
|
PowerBuilder3 posted:I wasn't sure, but this confirms Stubbs is a host: christ, what a bunch of assholes
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:35
|
|
|
Bernard and Dolores are gonna gently caress in season 3 and achieve synthesis in their respective hero's journeys Season 4 will be about transcending to another dimension above the "real" world in the Westworld show Season 5 will introduce the TV viewers as the architects and Bernard and Dolores' child which is a true neutral will kill us all personally as we beg for death
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:42
|
|
|
Seriously though why am I going to watch this instead of humans or bladerunner now that they are out in the real world? How is it even gonna be called westworld anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:43
|
|
|
The park will still exist. I'm sure there will be plenty of plots of whatever is the Hale body running things.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:44
|
|
|
For the goon that was asking:
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:44
|
|
|
S3 Spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_nPp64OrBc
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:50
|
|
|
One of those pearls better be a recreation of Elsie so that Elsie can come back in season 3 and also I'm on the show now and Elsie falls in love with me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:52
|
|
|
the only good episode on this season was the papa delos one. what a waste
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:00
|
|
|
The Papa Delos and Akecheta episodes (and the whole Maeve subplot) are by far the best parts of the season because they're the only parts where the writers seem to value telling an emotionally gripping story over setting up elaborate puzzle boxes to solve.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:05
|
|
|
I was thoroughly entertained this entire season and if this show comes back with a 3rd, I have no loving clue what they're going to do with more than half the cast loving dead as a door nail.esperterra posted:For the goon that was asking: Oh hey, this is really helpful. Thanks for posting it. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:15
|
|
|
the maeve plot was okey until they animed it up with her bullshit superpowers
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:15
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:I was thoroughly entertained this entire season and if this show comes back with a 3rd, I have no loving clue what they're going to do with more than half the cast loving dead as a door nail. Death means nothing on this show. Everybody comes back as a fixed robot or a hallucination or as an uploaded consciousness beamed into an identical new body. Everyone's dead but they'll all be back next season.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 04:55 |
|
|
esperterra posted:For the goon that was asking: I'm convinced that this season would have been a million times better if they'd done the two-timelines thing but without any deliberate confusion or trickery. Hell, I bet you could re-cut the season in a way that makes the two stories both play out much more clearly, while still having "reveals" like Halores. I get that they were kind of trying to evoke Bernard's scatter-brained point of view where from his perspective he doesn't himself remember when he is or what happened when but that... really sucks as a narrative structure. I'm worried that they think having ambiguous multiple timelines is baked into the premise of the show and is something they feel obligated to do every season even when there's no real need for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 03:21
|
|
