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Neddy Seagoon posted:I've been rewatching it too, and I've actually come to love any scene involving Kai Winn. Every word she speaks has some underhanded inference behind it, and just about everyone else can still talk circles around her because they're not taking any of her poo poo. I still don't know about Winn. She was written and played in a way that made sympathy for the character impossible, but also without the zest of someone like Refa, where he deserves what he gets but you still like the way he's being played (the villain you love to hate). Winn was so on the nose as a social critique and so carefully and skillfully performed as "nails on a blackboard" antagonist that I couldn't ever feel for her or even look forward to her inclusion in a story (though I usually did look forward to Fletcher's performance). Her closest equivalent on B5 would be all the one-episode Downbelow thugs and criminals.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:24
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I had a lot more sympathy for Winn when I watched through DS9 recently, which I didn't expect. After she settled down into the Kai role and began doing actual good things like the peace treaty with Cardassia, and before her turn at the end, she was a lot more nuanced than I remembered. Yeah, she was still an antagonist and not a fun person for the crew to deal with, but they also gave her a lot of unnecessary grief at times (especially Bashir one time that I recall explicitly) that kept the antagonism going, it was definitely a two-way street a lot of the time.
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Jun 29, 2018 18:25
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I've also gotta really respect DS9 for trying to tackle religion head-on, even if its overall stance on religion is pretty muddled. B5 featured religion, and even hinted at Vorlon interference in religion and used a bunch of prophecies and weird rituals, but it never really touched on religion in terms that were really relatable to the real-world mundacity of the religious experience in the way that DS9 did. Anybody can follow big huge prophecies and get swept away when all the crazy supernatural events are actually happening, but the whole regularly going to church, listening to sermons, and seeking spiritual guidance thing is what the bedrock of what modern religion is built on. And of course on the far side of the spectrum, there's Stargate, which literally goes militant atheist on most alien religions and doesn't really bother with balancing things out. SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 29, 2018 21:34
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SlothfulCobra posted:it never really touched on religion in terms that were really relatable to the real-world mundacity of the religious experience in the way that DS9 did. That's why the Centauri religion is the best on the show. The reference to Zoog as a debatable member of the pantheon cracks me up.
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Jun 29, 2018 22:16
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SlothfulCobra posted:I've also gotta really respect DS9 for trying to tackle religion head-on, even if its overall stance on religion is pretty muddled. B5 featured religion, and even hinted at Vorlon interference in religion and used a bunch of prophecies and weird rituals, but it never really touched on religion in terms that were really relatable to the real-world mundacity of the religious experience in the way that DS9 did. On the other hand I gotta give Passing Through Gethsemane was a great episode for mixing Christian belief and science fiction, so I can’t really say B5 didn’t do anything good with religion.
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Jul 1, 2018 02:40
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Luigi Thirty posted:From the bowels of YouTube I present a camcorder copy of a one-hour Q&A with Michael O'Hare - after he left B5 but before they shot War Without End. "I'm running around in the jungle shooting Shadowmen!" This is absorbing, thanks for posting it - he seems like such a lovely guy.
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Jul 2, 2018 13:43
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Bubbacub posted:That's why the Centauri religion is the best on the show. The reference to Zoog as a debatable member of the pantheon cracks me up. Centauri religion is basically just copy-pasted from Roman Imperial religion.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:45
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CountFosco posted:Centauri religion is basically just copy-pasted from Roman Imperial religion. Everything Centauri is either inspired by the Romans or the French.
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Jul 2, 2018 20:06
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Especially their dicks
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Jul 2, 2018 20:07
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Pick posted:Especially their dicks ooh la la!
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Jul 2, 2018 20:08
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The French are generous lovers They’ll give all six
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Jul 2, 2018 20:11
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ConfusedUs posted:ooh la la la la la la! There we go.
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Jul 2, 2018 20:41
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Come to think of it, did we ever get mention of the Mimbari religion at all outside of the Religious Caste being a thing? The Centauri talk about their gods every so often, the Narns at least talk about their Saint figures, but I don't remember anything about the Mimbari religion(s?).
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Jul 2, 2018 21:20
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They guard front doors
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Jul 2, 2018 21:21
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Airspace posted:Come to think of it, did we ever get mention of the Mimbari religion at all outside of the Religious Caste being a thing? Pure spiritualism based around ancestor worship and reincarnation, as influenced by the Vorlons.
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Jul 2, 2018 21:23
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The Minbari, or at least Delenn, seem to quasi-worship the universe itself. She talks occasionally about sapient beings being made out of the universe both materially and spiritually, in the sense of ourselves as emergent/splintered consciousnesses as a manifestation of the universe trying to understand itself.
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Jul 2, 2018 22:17
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ConfusedUs posted:Everything Centauri is either inspired by the Romans or the French. I think some of it is Russia as well, pining for the Glorious Old Days of the If it was France, the elite would've died by guillotine.
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Jul 3, 2018 08:58
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Neddy Seagoon posted:If it was France, the elite would've died by guillotine. As opposed to "Oh poo poo, that's a lot of Narn. Where's the exit ?" ?
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Jul 4, 2018 05:44
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How many Centauri does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
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Jul 4, 2018 14:06
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I'm like 99% done with this, and it's going to be made into a vinyl sticker. Send an e-mail to sendthemtopick@gmail.com if you want one, so I know how many to order  .
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Jul 4, 2018 16:37
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Haha that's awesome, gj
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Jul 4, 2018 19:46
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Saw that this was on amazon prime and geeked out a little to hard, wife made fun of me. Haven't seen this show since I was a kid so binging hard. Just hit the second season today.
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Jul 5, 2018 00:50
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Continuing my first watch now that it's on Amazon. I'm watching Z'ha'dum and was delenn's voice always so accented? I guess I might have missed it but she shows up at the end here and sounds totally different from what I remember.
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Jul 5, 2018 02:16
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Yes, Mira Furlan spent a lot of time tripping over her Croatian accent.
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Jul 5, 2018 02:25
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Darth Freddy posted:Saw that this was on amazon prime and geeked out a little to hard, wife made fun of me. Haven't seen this show since I was a kid so binging hard. Just hit the second season today. Yesssss so good. Post as you re-realize how great it is.
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Jul 5, 2018 02:37
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Darth Freddy posted:Saw that this was on amazon prime and geeked out a little to hard, wife made fun of me. Haven't seen this show since I was a kid so binging hard. Just hit the second season today. I hope you're making Mrs Darth Freddy watch it too to learn the error of her ways 
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Jul 5, 2018 02:40
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I haven’t watched since my last binge in like... 2010? It’s even better this time around. I love how Katsulas just chews the gently caress out of the scenery when G’kar is pissed. MOLAAAAAARIIIIIII
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Jul 5, 2018 03:19
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Katsulas and Jurasik are a loving joy.
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Jul 5, 2018 03:29
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Pick posted:Katsulas and Jurasik are a loving joy. CAN ANYONE HEAR ME!? i hear you
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Jul 5, 2018 03:40
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:CAN ANYONE HEAR ME!? As the humans say; "Up yours; DIE!"
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Jul 5, 2018 03:44
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You will know pain, you will know fear, and then you will die have a pleasant flight
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Jul 5, 2018 03:49
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Pick posted:Yesssss so good. Post as you re-realize how great it is. Oh poo poo give me time and I can recap season 1 while I'm at work. Neddy Seagoon posted:I hope you're making Mrs Darth Freddy watch it too to learn the error of her ways Sadly after making her watch he-man and the perfection that is Flash Ahhh ahhh Gordon, I am no longer allowed to show her sci-fi.
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Jul 5, 2018 03:57
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Darth Freddy posted:Oh poo poo give me time and I can recap season 1 while I'm at work. This is your chance. This isn’t sci-fi it’s high drama.
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Jul 5, 2018 03:58
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Doctor Zero posted:This is your chance. This isn’t sci-fi it’s high drama. Try the "this show is why Game of Thrones was able to be made" angle.
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Jul 5, 2018 04:43
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It's a political, philosophical, and religious drama that takes place on a space station and only occasionally involves dumb space monsters and archaic references to old literature. Edit: Drink Zima.
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Jul 5, 2018 16:13
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:CAN ANYONE HEAR ME!? I live for that exchange.
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Jul 5, 2018 16:39
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mllaneza posted:Try the "this show is why Game of Thrones was able to be made" angle. a point against it imo.
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Jul 5, 2018 17:16
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That was such a unique subversion of what you'd expect. Instead of showing how everybody can overcome their differences no problem and work together, it's all about showing just what it means to want somebody dead more than anything else. And on the other side of the coin, what it means to be hated so much. It's such a unique thing to be given sympathetic views to both sides of such a dire conflict.
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Jul 5, 2018 17:44
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SlothfulCobra posted:That was such a unique subversion of what you'd expect. Instead of showing how everybody can overcome their differences no problem and work together, it's all about showing just what it means to want somebody dead more than anything else. And on the other side of the coin, what it means to be hated so much. What made it perfect was Katsulas changing it from a bleak dark moment into the ultimate cosmic joke. He doesn't have to do a thing, and he gets to watch Molari die. Without fear of any kind of repercussions for his people, at all, he gets to watch the man he despises above anyone else die a slow and painful death with a front-row seat. 
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Jul 5, 2018 18:17
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JMS posted his memories of Harlan Ellison (too long to post here): https://www.facebook.com/officialjmspage/posts/1999083533459833 Also:  That was a pretty unrealistic date even when they made that episode.
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Jul 6, 2018 22:14
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