|
Stringbean posted:Didnt they try to push some lovely update a little bit back, and got a huge community push back which led them to revert thr changes? The player base also scoffed at the proposal to link weapons to energy draw from a mech's reactor to curb laser vomit. But no such system has ever existed in the BT/MW games so it was too far of a departure from what players expect from a BT/MW game. As a designer myself the power draw system made logical sense, far more than ghost heat or the limiting hard point mounting... but i agree with the players and fans being one myself that it was still a heavy handed "fix" and strange. I am still angry about quirks overall and bullshit nerfs to mechs after they are released for purchase with cbills. There are a lot of poor design solutions under the hood... The engine decouple was bad too ugh. Slayerjerman fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jul 9, 2018 |
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 05:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 23:12 |
|
|
Well, once enough clan weapons are sufficiently poo poo, PGI will probably have a good argument to strip quirks from IS mechs because they won't be needed for balance 
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 06:31
|
|
|
Slayerjerman posted:As a designer myself the power draw system made logical sense, far more than ghost heat or the limiting hard point mounting... but i agree with the players and fans being one myself that it was still a heavy handed "fix" and strange. See the thing is, in practical terms, it did not make logical sense. See, the goal was to cap alphas, and the first PTS, any combination of more than 30 was banned. But this meant that PPCs and gauss were absolutely completely 100% dominant over every other weapon; it's almost like 30 (realistically 24, 2xSRM6) points of SRM damage isn't as good as 30 points of double gauss or triple PPC. Lasers were better than SRMs & LBXs, but not nearly as good. So for the second PTS each weapon had a multiplier that meant you couldn't fire as many of them at once. Now you could only fire two PPCs at once but four SRMs at once, etc. After a couple more PTSes, the numbers that made sense and were sort of halfway balanced turned out to have been very close to what ghost heat was already, with one noteable difference- every weapon was grouped with every other weapon in heat penalty. So as of this point, all you've done is recreate ghost heat but with more poo poo on your screen to manage. You've taken a bad system and made it worse. But we're not done yet. You've also killed off the little remaining build diversity in the game. See, the thing is, as bad as ghost heat is, at least it makes you take more than one kind of weapon. The optimal mech in MWO has lots of one kind of weapon system, because then you only need one point of aim, one lead time, and all your weapons share a range bracket and cooldown so you can twist damage efficiently. With ghost heat, you're capped on certain kinds of weapons, but you can at least take compliementary weapons. SRMs can pair with big ACs or LBs, or medium lasers. Small ACs and UACs pair well with 2s/5s, or with PPCs. PPCs work with gauss, gauss works with lasers. You have some kind of incentive to take mixed weapons loadouts. That all goes out the window with energy draw. Now there is absolutely no reason to mix. A mech with eight SRM6 is just better than a mech that has to mix SRMs and LBx, or lasers. PPC boats are straight up better than mixed PPC/gauss. And you've made another problem you didn't think about too. Gaining heat matters far more for certain kinds of mechs than others. If you're plinking and peeking at 800m, you can always just slip into cover and cool off, and you don't lose much. If you're running hot at 100m with no way to disengage, you're dead. After the PTS, this is what PGI found out. Energy draw penalizes aggressive play and promotes a very passive playstyle, adds needless complexity to the game that doesn't make it more interesting, and also reduces build diversity. Maybe you're a designer, but you might need to give some more thought to energy draw instead of just thinking that fans hated it because it was different. MWO does a lot of stuff differently and nobody cares.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 06:37
|
|
|
I really think btech could do with tearing up the current system and starting again. Only reason I dont boat everything is different hard points and mixed bracket weapons. See: that missile cyclops
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 07:06
|
|
|
Boating has (and always will) be viable... I think we need MORE tech/features to diminish the benefits of boating such as Reflective Armor/Reactive Armor and other things that makes a player need to diversify rather than being straight up penalized for a play style. Like with triple-AMS or ECM mechs, players can then make builds that counter the meta behavior or diminish players' effectiveness that boat single weapon types. Just imagine if we had reflective armor that halved laser damage, we'd see a lot more mixed builds... players would throw on a mix of weapons to better handle the situation. Right now the only need to mix weapons is for range preferences and circumventing ghost heat, which is not enough. These nerfs aren't about fixing boating, they are just about increasing player longevity so matches are longer and players hopefully can develop better combat tactics (that will never happen, we all know that). The weapon damage values were way too high to begin with, especially with lasers, resulting in shortened life spans and one-sided matches.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 09:06
|
|
|
Someone in discord was asking about how fleas can get into the upper parts of solaris without jjs so I posted this real quick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTDYCi664Wc&t=22s Just masc run straight at the awning looking things and your tiny baby legs will do the rest.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 11:45
|
|
|
I finally got top scoring damage! 910 on terra therma with my jaegermech. Turns out having 4 ac2s with more than 500 rounds of ammo, at full armor, with 4 er small lasers in back up is real good 
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 23:43
|
|
|
Yeah, I don't understand this potential clan laser nerf. Clan laser vomit is strong, but they've already been whittling it down a bit recently. ER Meds had their cooldown increased. Burn times on Clan ER and Heavy lasers are so long now that they are pretty much ineffective versus fast lights and fast tanky mediums. They are hot enough that IS mechs can brawl you down pretty easily. Basically clan laser vomit only works if the enemy plays a slow poking game beyond 350 meters. If the enemy is composed of fast lights or brawlers that can overrun you, clan laser vomit gets stomped. I just don't understand the need to 'balance' clan and IS tech. Part of the flavor is that clan tech is better, isn't it? It would be cooler and better for the flavor of the game if IS vs Clan faction play was not symmetrical; i.e; 5 clan vs 8 IS, or 10 clan vs 12 or 16 IS. Isn't the IS totally crushing the clan recently in faction play anyways? The Assassin is still broken AF in my opinion. Just try getting a full laser burn on one of those things. Even if you land 75% of your burn on one, if it is twisting it seems like barely 25% of your damage registers, if even that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 01:15
|
|
|
What they're trying to target is high alpha Clan builds that can dump 70+ damage into a single component of pubbies too dim to twist. Which is fine. The game will always trend toward the highest alpha damage possible and it needs to be kept in check, but nerfs to the top performing weapon systems need careful tailoring so that they don't either A) nerf the playstyle into complete irrelevance, or B) cripple a bunch of other mechs and weapon setups at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 01:34
|
|
|
im gonna shoehorn a third large pulse laser on my mad-iic and have an even bigger alpha now
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 02:14
|
|
|
Skippy McPants posted:What they're trying to target is high alpha Clan builds that can dump 70+ damage into a single component of pubbies too dim to twist. But the worst loving thing is that this isn't even going to stop that. I was linked to someone on reddit who did the math; after the proposed changes, the scaaaaary Deathstrike will go from doing 80 damage to 75.75 damage in an alpha for almost no increase in heat; and it will have a better effective range. This mech is not going to be affected by the huge blanket nerf aimed at it. Meanwhile, every clan mech that relies on ER MLs to not be complete garbage (which is more than half of them) is going to get much, much worse.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 02:16
|
|
|
Yeah, one of the reason's I honestly want to know if they person engineering this stuff has played their own game. Nerf by spreadsheet is an overused cliche, but anyone with more than 50 hours in this game should be able to see how bad these changes are on their face.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 02:35
|
|
|
And yet the best clan laser boats will not be effected. so really this update is just to make worst mechs even worse
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 03:15
|
|
|
All my dumb gimmick clan mechs are safe. Fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 03:20
|
|
|
The easiest way to ensure your clan mechs are safe is to own none of them!
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 07:25
|
|
|
I welcome clan super death. Embrace IS supremacy clan plebs. E: Uhhh except Hellbringers, those things are my favorite god tier mechs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 10:46
|
|
|
If the changes go in as-is the HBR will still be okay, but it might not have quite enough space to run one of the various triple LL setups. So it might slip back behind the EBJ as best Clan laser heavy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 10:50
|
|
|
Soon everyone will be back to running twinked out IS XL laserboats 
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2018 10:57
|
|
|
 the optimistically named champion is on the scene
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2018 23:10
|
|
|
I mean, that's the least ugly version I've seen of the Champion, but still... ugh. no.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2018 23:17
|
|
|
Arms on that thing are confusing as gently caress. They’re huge but completely loving empty on nearly all variants. Other than that, it’s an IS mech so it’ll depend on the quirks. They really need to post quirks and mobility stats, preorders are pointless without them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 00:19
|
|
|
Change the arms into wings, give it insane jumpjet quirks. We robotech now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 00:58
|
|
|
Sooo... you want the Eyrie? Me too!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 01:18
|
|
|
 Upcoming 50% off mech bays sale Also half off all variants of the Phoenix Hawk, Archer, Rifleman, Warhammer, and clan and IS Marauders.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 01:45
|
|
|
Is the clan marauder pack any good? Thinking of the 8hml IIC, and the ATM IICB and maybe the lbx40 Scorch, can't figure a IICA build the
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 01:52
|
|
|
WhiskeyJuvenile posted:can't figure a IICA build the That's what the discord's resident "mech geniuse" is for.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 02:19
|
|
|
Pornographic Memory posted:
Oh hey, a "We won the lawsuit" sale!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 02:21
|
|
|
I'm curious about the clan Marauders too
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 02:23
|
|
|
Am I screwing up somehow because I don't know how to discord? The link in the OP is expired, and I'm sick of playing with randos.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 02:47
|
|
|
Nah you're nor screwing up but discord links expire by default and presumably most people are too lazy to click the "never expire" box. Unfortunately I can't see a way to make an invite link from the android app. Won't someone be a darling and drop a new link?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 03:34
|
|
|
I only have the MAD-IIC but it seems like it's pretty much THE mech to get if you love making GBS threads pulse lasers, or any lasers, all over the place. It's pretty agile for an assault mech, and has enough tonnage and slots for whatever combo of lasers you want to put on it with along with a shitload of heat sinks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 04:13
|
|
|
WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Is the clan marauder pack any good? Hexenritter posted:I'm curious about the clan Marauders too Don't get them for laser reasons, clan lasers are going to become worthless once the PTS changes get shoved through. Marauders tend to be pretty fast but they have abysmal agility, really low torso twist yaw angles and very sluggish movement, so they're not that great as brawlers either. The Scorch with 2lb20+4srm6 was quite good at one point and it still hits hard but you don't see many of them anymore because literally everything but a Direwolf outturns you at close range. On the plus side, they have a lot of tonnage, they have a great shape so they're very durable, the mount locations aren't perfect but they're certainly not bad either, and it's a really nice-looking mech. It's pretty much a faster but less agile Supernova. Not sure how good they will be in the coming months with the huge lasernerf, but the mech itself is solid if not very brawly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:11
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:Oh hey, a "We won the lawsuit" sale! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:17
|
|
|
Thanks for the quick summary, brigabuddy
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:17
|
|
|
So people are resigned to the nerds going through as is? I gather the devs don't have good form for going back to the drawing board?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:45
|
|
|
It will be fine, Jesus. Either the nerfs will get watered down or people will adapt and continue to do fine while doing a couple of percent less damage. And if it that huge of a deal there are still plenty of laser builds that will be fine?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 08:35
|
|
|
WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Is the clan marauder pack any good? MAD-IIC-A MAD-IIC (Yeah, that's a TC VII) SCORCH TjyvTompa fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Jul 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 10:40
|
|
|
So many good mechs on sale, gonna make an effortpost here since Marauders, Warhammers and Riflemen are some of my favourite mechs. RFL-5D A56020:1|Ed|Y?|Y?p_0|i^|i^|i^q_0|i^|i^|i^rX0|i^|i^|Y?|Y?|b?sX0|i^|i^|Y?|Y?|b?tZ0uZ0v<0w609090 LEGEND-KILLER A66820:1|Jdpb0|JO|Y?|JOqb0|JO|Y?|JO|JOrX0|o?|Y?sX0|o?|Y?tc0uc0v:0w606060 WHM-6D Ao5820D1|Ud|i^|i^|i^ph0|Y?|i^|Y?|i^qh0|i^|b?|b?|b?r\0|i^|i^|Y?|Y?sF0|i^tf0uf0vB0w404040 BLACK WIDOW (OG AC/5-uAC/5 version) BLACK WIDOW (new LBX20 version) A16820@1|3P|3P|bbpf0|L@|3Pqf0|L@|3Pr>0s\0|i^tb0ub0|3PvB0|3Pw806060 BOUNTY HUNTER II (put an LFE on this thing but losing the left torso means you can barely fire the 3LPLs so...) AL5820H1|NG|Vg|i^|i^|NGpl0|i^|i^|i^ql0|i^|i^|i^r`0|Y?|Y?|Y?s`0|b?|b?|b?|i^t01u01vB0|Y?w404040 MAD-3R AI5920H1|fb|i^pl0|1@|1@ql0r00s`0|a?|a?tf0|LO|LOuf0|LO|LOvB0|LOw404040 MAD-5M (critseeker build with TC IV) AK5820F1|fb|i^pj0|L@|3Pqj0|i^|i^|i^|3P|3P|4Pr`0|c?|c?|c?|2=2s`0|c?|c?tc0uc0v>0w606060 I recommend all these mechs but especially the WHM-6D, it is an absolute beast and a very good platform to get used to the IS XL engine.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 11:20
|
|
|
TjyvTompa posted:
What the hell. This is a mid to long ranged bombardment nech, not a brawler. Put a light 300 engine on there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 14:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 23:12 |
|
|
I think this is how I built my MAD-3R https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=345&l=11a5cb8c4e98f2c96415248fe86a2a7cca3166ce I just bought the MAD-IIC pack because I enjoyed it so much. You can do a similar build as above on one of them, except with 2 x large pulses and a bigger engine instead of 4 x medium lasers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 15:03
|
|