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HELLO IT'S TIME FOR ME TO RUN A STUPID TOURNAMENT POORLY FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT! The format this time is a riff on some bullshit called Ancient that a guy with a blogspot made up. The premise is this: cards whose first printing was in an old border set are the card pool, but with a Legacyish banlist. This means Alpha through Scourge and the various flavors of Portal and Starter and etc. Tournament format will be Swiss rounds (based on playerbase) with the option to change your deck each week, followed by a cut to top 8 with the same deck switchability. Let's brew some dope poo poo! All matches will be best of 3. Post in this thread to register, I'll start the festivities on the 22th of July (just shy of two weeks from now). Also, I'm gonna dig through my collection to find something neat for prize support, but if you wanna contribute too it will be welcome! Banlist is as follows. Key differences from the Legacy banlist are Survival of the Fittest, Tinker, and Flash are not banned because the targets are a lot worse: All Conspiracies Amulet of Quoz Ancestral Recall Balance Bazaar of Baghdad Black Lotus Black Vise Bronze Tablet Channel Chaos Orb Contract from Below Darkpact Demonic Attorney Demonic Consultation Demonic Tutor Earthcraft Falling Star Fastbond Frantic Search Goblin Recruiter Gush Hermit Druid Imperial Seal Jeweled Bird Library of Alexandria Mana Crypt Mana Drain Mana Vault Memory Jar Mind Twist Mind's Desire Mishra's Workshop Mox Emerald Mox Jet Mox Pearl Mox Ruby Mox Sapphire Mystical Tutor Necropotence Oath of Druids Rebirth Shahrazad Sol Ring Strip Mine Tempest Efreet Time Vault Time Walk Timetwister Timmerian Fiends Tolarian Academy Vampiric Tutor Wheel of Fortune Windfall Worldgorger Dragon Yawgmoth's Bargain Yawgmoth's Will I believe this is all but I'll post more if I remember that I forgot.
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Jul 11, 2018 01:36
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I'll give it a go. This is magic that's 15 years off from when I played so it should be interesting.
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Jul 11, 2018 01:50
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This looks extremely loving rad, OP. I gotta figure out what to play...
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Jul 11, 2018 01:53
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Ancient is actually the only good MTG format. I don't have time to play these days, but I'll throw a forum upgrade into the prize pool. Good luck all!
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Jul 11, 2018 02:07
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Portal and Starter sets weren't legal in Legacy when Scourge was released, right?
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Jul 11, 2018 02:11
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E: ^^^they weren't, but also Legacy didn't exist in its current form instead of Vintage Lite until like Darksteel. Besides, this lets us do something new if we want to play with Imperial Recruiter or something I'm in, have a few decks in mind. Can't wait to lose to Tinker to be clear, I actually do think Tinker is fine here Elyv fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 02:21
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Thunderdome: We Don't Need Another (Benalish) Hero I actually came up with a Modern-legal list of all old-bordered cards a little while back, if I don't end up playing and someone needs another list I'd be happy to share it. E: Really wanna play with some old-school creatures but I feel like that's sub-optimal when you have stuff life Dark Ritual, Counterspell, FoW etc available. Maybe not though, might just come up with some lists for the hell of it. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 02:34
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I haven't participated in a thunderdome yet, what program is used to play?
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Jul 11, 2018 02:57
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C-Euro posted:E: Really wanna play with some old-school creatures but I feel like that's sub-optimal when you have stuff life Dark Ritual, Counterspell, FoW etc available. Maybe not though, might just come up with some lists for the hell of it.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:21
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I'm already torn between wanting advice and not wanting to spoil my sick tech.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:01
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Finally, an opportunity to play my favorite deck in a cardpool where it may not be that bad!
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Jul 11, 2018 04:05
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Rabbi posted:You can put 4x Survival, 1x Genesis, and 1x Squee into a deck, and then play with pretty much any creatures you want. This link has a few lists: https://www.channelfireball.com/home/recurring-nightmares-geocentrism/ Thank you for reminding me that Mystic Enforcer exists, loved that card back in the day. Also if you add "is:old" to a search on Scryfall, it will only return cards that are legal for this event, with the exception of promos in the old frame.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:15
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Can we add Grim Tutor to the banned list? It makes things a little too consistent with 4x LED, 4x Lotus Petal, probably 4x Mox Diamond and all the Rituals.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:24
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I'm going to hold on bans for this one, but I'm planning to do more so anything that proves super busted this time will get the axe. Also promos of cards originally printed post-Scourge aren't legal even if they're old frame. Just to be clear. No Bob sorry!!
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Jul 11, 2018 04:27
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Could we instead use the pre-8th Legacy/Vintage banlist? It seems like it would make more sense given some of the bans/unbans of older cards after that point were due to newer cards being printed. For what it's worth, the list at the point of March 2003 would look like this: Ante Cards Ancestral Recall Black Lotus Braingeyser Moxen Sol Ring Timetwister Time Vault Time Walk Channel Demonic Tutor Regrowth Wheel of Fortune Library of Alexandria Chaos Orb Falling Star Mind Twist Balance Fork Land Tax Fastbond Strip Mine Black Vise Stroke of Genius Tolarian Academy Windfall Memory Jar Time Spiral Crop Rotation Doomsday Dream Halls Enlightened Tutor Frantic Search Grim Monolith Lotus Petal Mana Crypt Mana Vault Mind Over Matter Mox Diamond Mystical Tutor Tinker Vampiric Tutor Voltaic Key Yawgmoth's Bargain Yawgmoth's Will Demonic Consultation Necropotence Fact or Fiction Earthcraft Entomb We could make some slight modifications to it based on things we know were overlooked at that point (ban Shahrazad, unban Fork?) but I think this list is substantially better for this format than the modern Legacy banlist. EDIT: Also fwiw, tinker was banned in 1999, for reasons that had nothing to do with cards that got printed 4+ years later. It's probably not a safe unban. Fajita Queen fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 05:48
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Yeah High Tide with 4x Candelabra and 4x Merchant Scroll and 4x Time Spiral is rather consistent.
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Jul 11, 2018 06:08
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The Shortest Path posted:EDIT: Also fwiw, tinker was banned in 1999, for reasons that had nothing to do with cards that got printed 4+ years later. It's probably not a safe unban. Tinker was not banned in Extended until after Mirrodin came out and unlike in Vintage, you don't get to Tinker moxen so I guess you get to turn Chromatic Sphere into Phyrexian Colossus?
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Jul 11, 2018 06:09
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Y'all are bringing out chemical weapons while I'm screwing around with academy rector...
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Jul 11, 2018 06:09
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TheLawinator posted:Y'all are bringing out chemical weapons while I'm screwing around with academy rector... e: changed for accuracy
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Jul 11, 2018 06:21
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Hellsau posted:Yeah High Tide with 4x Candelabra and 4x Merchant Scroll and 4x Time Spiral is rather consistent. For the moment I say run it and kick some teeth in. If the format gets too bad I can hotswap the ban list but I wanna lock it in as in the OP. I’m willing to believe my list is horribly wrong but I also feel like we could tweak it to death and I’d rather just play and fix stuff that’s degenerate. I’d like to keep running this past the first season so there’s ample time to fix things.
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Jul 11, 2018 06:21
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black potus posted:For the moment I say run it and kick some teeth in. If the format gets too bad I can hotswap the ban list but I wanna lock it in as in the OP. I’m willing to believe my list is horribly wrong but I also feel like we could tweak it to death and I’d rather just play and fix stuff that’s degenerate. Oh yes I am totally game for breaking High Tide, then Ill-Gotten Gains Tendrils, then some sort of Survival deck, in that order.
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Jul 11, 2018 06:23
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Nothing in Solidarity was printed before like, 1995 
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Jul 11, 2018 06:27
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suicidesteve posted:Nothing in Solidarity was printed before like, 1995 I think with Time Spiral legal, Candelabra + Time Spiral is better than Reset + more cantrips and more Turnabouts. Either way, High Tide vs. Duress-based Storm vs. Goblins vs. Meddling Mage Threshold seems like a good start on a metagame.
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Jul 11, 2018 07:19
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No Ringleader or Mind's Desire makes two of those decks very sad, though.
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Jul 11, 2018 07:31
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The Shortest Path posted:No Ringleader or Mind's Desire makes two of those decks very sad, though. Not really? Mind's Desire has never been Legacy legal (banned before Scourge came out, right?) and Ringleader would be great, but you've still got the good Goblins plus Wasteland and Port with 4x Pyroblast in the board. No Vial is a problem but whatever.
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Jul 11, 2018 07:41
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Ringleader is legal, Recruiter is banned, presumably so you can't just food chain people out
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Jul 11, 2018 08:52
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Elyv posted:Ringleader is legal, Recruiter is banned, presumably so you can't just food chain people out I meant Recruiter and I assume The Shortest Path did too. The Good Goblins would be Lackey, Piledriver, Warchief, Matron, Ringleader, and Siege-Gang, with some other Goblins showing up when they feel like it. Good mono-color curve + mana disruption + burn if wanted, along with some sick sideboard or tech options, makes for a decent aggro deck. Recruiter is mostly just combo city.
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Jul 11, 2018 09:30
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TheLawinator posted:Y'all are bringing out chemical weapons while I'm screwing around with academy rector... Yeah I'm sitting here all "well that Pestilence pre-con from Urza's Saga was pretty good, how can I make that a viable deck" while the rest of you are doing real-rear end Legacy stuff. Apparently I have some homework to do if I want to play in this...
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Jul 11, 2018 12:41
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I played briefly during ONS when I started MTG. Astral Slide was my favorite card and it was very disappointing to come back a few years ago and find out it wasn't even Modern legal. So this sounds fun! I also remember a few madness decks running around in extended at the time.
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Jul 11, 2018 12:46
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The Shortest Path posted:EDIT: Also fwiw, tinker was banned in 1999, for reasons that had nothing to do with cards that got printed 4+ years later. It's probably not a safe unban. Hellsau posted:Oh yes I am totally game for breaking High Tide, then Ill-Gotten Gains Tendrils, then some sort of Survival deck, in that order.  Edit: VVVVVV Grim Tutor though. Rabbi fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 13:59
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Hellsau posted:Portal and Starter sets weren't legal in Legacy when Scourge was released, right? Hellsau posted:Can we add Grim Tutor to the banned list? It makes things a little too consistent with 4x LED, 4x Lotus Petal, probably 4x Mox Diamond and all the Rituals.
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Jul 11, 2018 14:32
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I'm playing. I would like Portal legal please. Grim tutor ban is fine.
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Jul 11, 2018 15:35
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Hellsau posted:Not really? Mind's Desire has never been Legacy legal (banned before Scourge came out, right?) and Ringleader would be great, but you've still got the good Goblins plus Wasteland and Port with 4x Pyroblast in the board. No Vial is a problem but whatever. It was banned at the end of June, Scourge came out in May. Also yeah I meant Recruiter  Rabbi posted:The reason tinker was busted+banned back then was Memory Jar, which is banned in this format. It's not a threat IMO. Memory Jar was banned several months before Tinker was. That said, I'm not sure why they actually did end up banning Tinker at that point, as it was several years before Mirrodin came out and there weren't any super disgusting artifacts to grab? Fajita Queen fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 15:44
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The Shortest Path posted:Memory Jar was banned several months before Tinker was. That said, I'm not sure why they actually did end up banning Tinker at that point, as it was several years before Mirrodin came out and there weren't any super disgusting artifacts to grab? Tinker is pretty disgusting with Moxen even with no good cards to get and like Rabbi said, it could turn into your restricted Memory Jar. It wasn't banned in Extended until it dominated PT New Orleans 2003, right after Mirrodin came out. E: Legacy at the time was literally "Vintage, except with restricted cards banned automatically" so Tinker was banned in Legacy even though it probably wouldn't have been good yet. I'm down with Grim Tutor and Time Spiral bans personally Elyv fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 15:57
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Not gonna ban anything else until after week 1. My foot is down. I can't pick it up. I don't want to ban things for the following reasons: 1) Bans are not fun! If a card isn't provably degenerate, then in the abstract I'd rather have it than not. Week 1 will give us concrete evidence. 2) I don't really want to tweak the list ad nauseum because all I can really do is gut check people's assertions at this point and ain't nobody got time for that. 4) I dunno something for the rule of threes. If people are concerned, we can do week one as a welcome week of sorts that won't impact future pairings/standings and see if anything is drastically overperforming. But I'm also ok with people using this tournament to prove poo poo's busted and force my hand and ruin people's days because I'm fundamentally a bad dude.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:55
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black potus posted:Not gonna ban anything else until after week 1. My foot is down. I can't pick it up.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:58
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Oh yeah, I decided I'm totally in for this. I need to get XMage setup and practice using it I guess.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:27
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First archetype for testing ready. It's gonna be tough to adequately test these garbage piles.
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Jul 13, 2018 03:52
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Sounds fun. I'm in.
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Jul 15, 2018 16:36
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Okay I've finalized a deck. Are we posting lists before the thing starts or going in blind?
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Jul 15, 2018 19:18
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