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Stinky_Pete
Aug 16, 2015

Stinkier than your average bear
Lipstick Apathy

Good Will Hrunting posted:

What, where? (Also you must have missed the part where I said it was an approximation. And, seriously? This is pretty nit-picky to me. I'm frantically typing this poo poo in a text editor under serious time constraints where copy and paste is a hassle, how is this really important?)


You literally say "It doesn't have to be perfect perfect" and then describe what you would write as (I'm assuming) perfect perfect code. I'm trying to write code in these interviews that is correct and also fairly readable in case my interviewer isn't paying attention and will have to refer back to it. Defining a mapping of Character stood out as way clearer than using an array and subtracting a constant, which to me seems like a very Cracking the Coding Interview Solution type answer.

I just wanted to show you the amount of headroom present in the problem. It's not that an adequate and correct solution is wrong, it's just that if someone else can impress the interviewers with more refinements, then they are more likely to get the one job opening instead of you. With bigger tech companies it's more likely that you can simply pass a ~uniform bar to get in, but if you're looking to join a smaller one or a non-tech company's computer department, the bar is set by the other candidates.

apseudonym posted:

I would absolutely ding you for A) assuming the alphabet is just a-z, Java strings are utf8, and B) trying to be too clever too fast.

If I had an actual person there I would state my assumptions clearly and ask if they're valid, including whether it's all normalized into lowercase. From the context, I gathered we're talking about pyramid words like "sleeveless" in English.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Hot take: when people try to use an array as a lookup table based on index, they're doing it wrong. Especially if their concern is to be more performant than a dictionary would be. Code should be clear about what it does, and making an index double as a lookup key is confusing.

If your interview has somehow managed to progress to the point where you need to worry about the performance characteristics of dictionaries vs. arrays, then either your interviewer is dumb, or you've already covered every less-trivial topic in your fifty-hour-long interview.

Yes I can see how a dictionary would be better for readability, but in my head, small alphabets intuitively map to range(N) so I would start with that and then make the code more purposeful after putting the control flow together. I just think letter_counts[AlphabetPos(c)]++; is simpler than the dict default value business. Isn't the point usually to start with a naive simple solution and improve on it?

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Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



apseudonym posted:

Nah I was just wrong, it's utf-16 internal and ??? Encoding by default (don't know outside out of Linux).

The point stands though, assuming your alphabet is 26 characters is just wrong.

You're already assuming you can iterate over characters in the string, so why not just embrace all the wrongness?

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
https://triplebyte.com/blog/bayesian-inference-for-hiring-engineers

:staredog:

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.



All of that seems entirely reasonable. The models they're discussing are standard, but rely on getting good data. I can buy that TripleByte is able to do that.

They're also in a pretty unique position: they can possibly measure whether candidates who get rejected from a particular company are actually worse than those who get offers. That would be an absolutely fascinating analysis to see.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Anyone here found a job through TripleByte? How was the process? I checked them out once, but gave up because they weren't doing remote placements and I'm not super interested in relocating.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
I'm going to give them a shot after I take a little break so I'll report back.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.

The Fool posted:

Anyone here found a job through TripleByte? How was the process? I checked them out once, but gave up because they weren't doing remote placements and I'm not super interested in relocating.

I got bored and took their intro quiz. It was a mix of stuff in Ruby/Python/Javascript (lol 1 Java question) and system design stuff/concurrency stuff. I skipped 4-5 of the 35 questions.

quote:

Congratulations! You did exceptionally well on the quiz.

We don't share exact numbers, but we only invite the top few percent of quiz-takers to continue.

Based on your answers, our data predicts we can match you with approximately 12 top tech companies interested in your skillset.


Next steps
The next step is to chat with one of Triplebyte's engineers.

This helps us identify which opportunities are the best fit for your skills and interests, and it's why companies like Apple, Stripe, Mixpanel, and Instacart let the engineers we work with skip straight to their final interviews.

sim
Sep 24, 2003

Anyone have advice for second-guessing the decision to become a full-time manager? I've been a developer for ten years and I started managing 3 years ago. But I was only managing a team of 4 engineers at a startup with 12 people total. In practice I was more of a technical lead that held regular 1:1 meetings.

A couple months ago I switched to a job where I still have only a few direct reports, but there is no expectation that I code. Ultimately I took this job for the career trajectory, in the form of progression of titles and responsibilities on my resume. Whether completely true or not, I wanted the money and status that comes with management experience.

However now that I'm actually doing more pure management tasks, I'm unsure if I like it or not. I enjoy improving process, but mostly in the context of development. Things like setting up and improving testing frameworks, linting, establishing architecture patterns and libraries, improving CI/CD, setting code review standards, etc. Currently I'm a little frustrated with the endless meetings, backlog grooming, and constant need to check on progress/assign work/assess status.

I know I can always go back to being an individual contributor, but I am a greedy rear end in a top hat so I'm always chasing that :20bux:. Apparently you have to work hard for money and do things you don't enjoy?!

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

sim posted:

I know I can always go back to being an individual contributor, but I am a greedy rear end in a top hat so I'm always chasing that :20bux:.

You don't need to be a manager to be well-compensated. Find a company with a parallel advancement structure for individual contributors; most tech companies should have that.

Smart companies have seen first-hand what happens when you force developers to go into management to make more money: Your top-tier developers quit and go to a place that will continue to reward them for what they've been excelling at. Or they become managers, stop contributing, and you're left with junior/mid-level developers doing all the work, and doing it poorly.

kitten smoothie
Dec 29, 2001

New Yorp New Yorp posted:

Smart companies have seen first-hand what happens when you force developers to go into management to make more money: Your top-tier developers quit and go to a place that will continue to reward them for what they've been excelling at. Or they become managers, stop contributing, and you're left with junior/mid-level developers doing all the work, and doing it poorly.

And worse, by promoting a developer to management based on their performance as a developer, you risk not only losing a good developer, but also gaining a poor manager if they don't have the leadership skills to pull it off.

In no way accusing sim of being a bad manager here, btw.

I've just had a few crappy bosses in the past who hit it out of the park as ICs, then got promoted to management because the organization had no other place for them to go upwards. This was before I discovered forward-thinking companies that had embraced the parallel track concept.

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

kitten smoothie posted:

And worse, by promoting a developer to management based on their performance as a developer, you risk not only losing a good developer, but also gaining a poor manager if they don't have the leadership skills to pull it off.

In no way accusing sim of being a bad manager here, btw.

I've just had a few crappy bosses in the past who hit it out of the park as ICs, then got promoted to management because the organization had no other place for them to go upwards. This was before I discovered forward-thinking companies that had embraced the parallel track concept.

Yeah, it's the Peter Principle.

Stinky_Pete
Aug 16, 2015

Stinkier than your average bear
Lipstick Apathy
So here's an algo puzzle that I have derived from my real life project.

Given a tree such that:
- nodes can have any number of children (but typically up to 10)
- all siblings of leaves are leaves
- a leaf may or may not contain a COLOR
- the leftmost leaf of a given COLOR contains an int LENGTH
- the LENGTH indicates how many siblings of the parent node also have a leaf with that color. LENGTH 1 means that's the only leaf in the tree with that COLOR
- a node with a COLOR leaf is considered COMPRESSIBLE
- you may assume all COMPRESSIBLE nodes are siblings in a contiguous left-right sequence

Return a tree such that:
- all sequences of COMPRESSIBLE nodes are replaced with a single node containing the corresponding COLOR
- COMPRESSIBLE nodes whose COLOR leaf has LENGTH 1 are left as-is

Stinky_Pete fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jul 10, 2018

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009
That's stinky.

Stinky_Pete
Aug 16, 2015

Stinkier than your average bear
Lipstick Apathy

Volguus posted:

That's stinky.

:grin:

Also, the "leaves are siblings of leaves" condition isn't actually true, but that would be too murky for an interview question. It turns out to not really change the logic of the solution, but it can be a distraction.

Janitor Prime
Jan 22, 2004

PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean

Fun Shoe
I'd ask why you let it get that way in the first place? It seems better to deal with the compression on insert

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
My team has been gradually hemorrhaging members, due to a combination of personality clashes with upper management, and a death march we were in for awhile (which is, thankfully, now over). We've lost about half the team (all of the more senior enginers) and our manager; the replacement hired engineers are much more junior. As of recently, I'm now the most experienced person on the team, which feels a little odd considering that when I joined the team I was #4. We've also been scrambling along without full-time management for awhile; our old manager left (see also: personality clashes) and the interim manager has some health issues that keep them from working full-time.

I like the team's mission, and my teammates, what's left of them. I want the team to succeed, but obviously things aren't exactly going super-well staffing-wise. Plus with the team size decreasing, my options for career advancement also get worse: it's hard to demonstrate next-level leadership skills on a small team with correspondingly decreased scope. My plan currently is to stick it out at least through when my 2-year anniversary is (in about half a year), since that marks when the bulk of my stock options finish vesting.

What I'm wondering is, how do I play this to management? My intuition is that I say nothing, let them fix things if they can, but assume they won't, and quietly line up a new job to switch to once my options vest. Do y'all think there's anything to be gained by being more open? Saying "look, we've been trying to fix staffing problems on this team for months, it's not happening fast enough, pretty soon I'm going to have to assume this is our new de facto staffing level and it simply doesn't have the scope for career advancement that I'm looking for." I'm not entirely certain they can hire good new talent to patch the holes in the team though...so I guess another option is to try to milk the position for better compensation or a promotion, lack of scope or no. I'm not super-confident in my negotiation skills though.

I guess what I'm getting at is, I'm in a weird position of being on an obviously deteriorating team...that nonetheless is performing a vital role for the company, and I'm both the TL for the team and the person with by far the greatest breadth of knowledge of its systems. That feels like it ought to be a position of some kind of power, but I don't know how to play it. Upper management clearly cares at least a little about us (any political ire should have been targeted at specific people, not the teams they were on) or we wouldn't be getting new hires at all...but it's hard to know exactly how much they care.

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

What I'm wondering is, how do I play this to management? My intuition is that I say nothing, let them fix things if they can, but assume they won't, and quietly line up a new job to switch to once my options vest. Do y'all think there's anything to be gained by being more open? Saying "look, we've been trying to fix staffing problems on this team for months, it's not happening fast enough, pretty soon I'm going to have to assume this is our new de facto staffing level and it simply doesn't have the scope for career advancement that I'm looking for." I'm not entirely certain they can hire good new talent to patch the holes in the team though...so I guess another option is to try to milk the position for better compensation or a promotion, lack of scope or no. I'm not super-confident in my negotiation skills though.

I guess what I'm getting at is, I'm in a weird position of being on an obviously deteriorating team...that nonetheless is performing a vital role for the company, and I'm both the TL for the team and the person with by far the greatest breadth of knowledge of its systems. That feels like it ought to be a position of some kind of power, but I don't know how to play it. Upper management clearly cares at least a little about us (any political ire should have been targeted at specific people, not the teams they were on) or we wouldn't be getting new hires at all...but it's hard to know exactly how much they care.

I think your intuition is right. If you're more open, the only thing that would change is that management will know for certain that they will have to replace you soon, too. At least in the vacuum of hypothetical situations, if I were in their position I would turn your demand down and start getting you to document your knowledge/train the newbies while I search for a replacement TL. My assumption would be that you're going to bounce when your options vest.

The best move, in my opinion, is to start a job search, line up other offers for when your options vest and then at that point consider what your options are.

Xik
Mar 10, 2011

Dinosaur Gum
Can't think of any situation when telling your employer you are thinking of leaving would be a good idea.

Best case scenario is they take it well and shuffle you off to do something low impact like writing docs all day. In this case you've already cemented that you're leaving because your job sucks even more.

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS
Has anyone handled change in senior management from a leadership position? If so, how did it go?

Background: I was hired to manage a function (and team) in November but my boss left at the end of that month. Since then, myself and my two functional contemporaries have effectively led the department with regular check-ins with our Chief Product Officer (previous boss's boss).

We have a new C-level leader starting on Monday who we'll be reporting to and I'm not sure what to expect from the guy. I was part of the interview process and while my evaluation was a "no" it was more because some of the things he said reminded me of the old boss. Even so, his career almost perfectly mirrors mine so far and I think that out of the members of the department leadership team I have more in common with him background-wise than anyone else.

However, in my role I don't have the management buffer between me and this guy to soften any blow so the uncertainty of how he'll want to leave his mark has me nervous.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.

fantastic in plastic posted:

The best move, in my opinion, is to start a job search

If I recall, TooMuchAbstraction is a Goongler which is two-fold. Why would you want to *leave* Google? But also, you could p much go anywhere after Google I bet. TMA please leave and take me with you somewhere cool.

Anyway, I made it to the final round with a place I'm interested in. Just 1 hour culture fit at an office event + 1 hour with the CTO left. I've had 4 tech rounds already, which apparently I passed regardless of not having slept properly all week as I've been mourning the loss of my poor doggo earlier this week which has been really tough on me. Not even sure how my brain is functioning, to be honest.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Why would you want to *leave* Google?
I know plenty of people who have either turned down Google offers or left of their own accord. The reasons can vary from person to person, but it often came down to being on teams that were uninteresting to them. Otherwise the work environment is generally nice.

People prioritize different things, and Google isn’t the Promise Land for everyone.

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I've been mourning the loss of my poor doggo earlier this week which has been really tough on me. Not even sure how my brain is functioning, to be honest.
Dang, sorry about your dog. :(

Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Jul 12, 2018

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Google is still a pretty nice place to work, and a great thing to have on your resume, but it's a lot more corporate than it used to be. It's certainly not (or not always, anyway) the promised land of Cool People Working On Cool Problems For Good Causes.

But yeah, my job search would start with looking for openings within the company. People routinely leave team A for team B for any number of reasons, and this is actively encouraged as a way to starve bad teams/projects of resources. IIRC all the other people that left my team did so to go to either another team within the company or to one of the other Alphabet companies.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, y'all.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

People routinely leave team A for team B for any number of reasons, and this is actively encouraged as a way to starve bad teams/projects of resources.

lmao

Dirk Pitt
Sep 14, 2007

haha yes, this feels good

Toilet Rascal
I’m making the transition into a managerial role, not full time but taking on responsibilities for mentorship and coaching. I got to call someone and offer them a position, and the sound she made when I offered it brought me so much joy. It’s made my month. That’s all I wanted to say.

I’ve rejected so many 5 years of swift experience, 12 years Mac experience, 3 books written type ego maniacs lately and this offer to hire made me so happy.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

It's the same logic that says "if you don't think you're getting anything useful out of a meeting, don't go to it." Which is also commonly said around here.

More generally, it's a recognition that you cannot force highly skilled/paid professionals to work on projects or in environments that they do not enjoy. If "keep them on the team" is not an option, then "keep them in the company" is vastly preferable to "have them leave to go work at $competitor". Naturally you'd rather they wouldn't find themselves wanting to leave, but that's not always realistic; Google has its fair share of bad managers and unpopular projects.

Dirk Pitt
Sep 14, 2007

haha yes, this feels good

Toilet Rascal
Separate post because kind of separate question.

How do you treat people who lead with their published books (pakt press so :jerkoff:) in the cover letter and resume? I grade pretty hard on take home code for seniors but have a hard time not biasing myself when I see imperfect code or bad ui design on those.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Dirk Pitt posted:

Separate post because kind of separate question.

How do you treat people who lead with their published books (pakt press so :jerkoff:) in the cover letter and resume? I grade pretty hard on take home code for seniors but have a hard time not biasing myself when I see imperfect code or bad ui design on those.

Sounds like an academic mindset on their part. Grill them on praxis. If they’re such hot poo poo, make them prove it.

asur
Dec 28, 2012
@TooMuchAbstraction Normally I would say to not bring anything up and just leave, but Google's culture and internal movement is very different than the norm. If your manager is supportive I would bring up your concerns for advancement, without directly stating that you'll leave, and see what they say. If your concerns aren't resolved and you plan to move internally Id give them a heads up that youre looking and go from there. Ive never heard of a downside of giving some notice and it prevents burning any Bridges that could matter at a later date.

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Anyway, I made it to the final round with a place I'm interested in. Just 1 hour culture fit at an office event + 1 hour with the CTO left. I've had 4 tech rounds already, which apparently I passed regardless of not having slept properly all week as I've been mourning the loss of my poor doggo earlier this week which has been really tough on me. Not even sure how my brain is functioning, to be honest.
Well, we could all still give you a mock interview over Discord or whatever, or we could just talk about doggies on it instead.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Dang, sorry about your dog. :(

Thanks. It's absolutely baffling to me that I did a 2-hour train ride and went through 4 hours of interviews yesterday after rushing home Tuesday to be with him for his last moments and sleeping maybe two hours Tuesday night. The brain fog was real and I couldn't figure out why my binary search-like algo was blowing out the stack (it was a small off-by-one thing when splitting up my data) or come up with an efficient way to handle one of the REST calls at the end of the design exercise, but they liked me regardless and I feel pretty confident.

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Well, we could all still give you a mock interview over Discord or whatever, or we could just talk about doggies on it instead.

:shobon: If this and my Tuesday on-site fall through, I'm taking 2-3 weeks off just to give my body a break so I'm definitely down for that.

Good Will Hrunting fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jul 12, 2018

Shirec
Jul 29, 2009

How to cock it up, Fig. I

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Well, we could all still give you a mock interview over Discord or whatever, or we could just talk about doggies on it instead.

Do we have a dev discord? That could be fun/horrible

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.

Shirec posted:

Do we have a dev discord? That could be fun/horrible

We could start a career-centric one for this + the newbie thread and keep it civil honestly - if there's interest I'd gladly start and moderate it.

Shirec
Jul 29, 2009

How to cock it up, Fig. I

Good Will Hrunting posted:

We could start a career-centric one for this + the newbie thread and keep it civil honestly - if there's interest I'd gladly start and moderate it.

I'd personally be excited for that. I want to help out, after getting so much help here.

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



There already is a SA Code (or Dev, maybe?) Discord. I'll try to remember to see about posting an invite link when I get home.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

It's the same logic that says "if you don't think you're getting anything useful out of a meeting, don't go to it." Which is also commonly said around here.

More generally, it's a recognition that you cannot force highly skilled/paid professionals to work on projects or in environments that they do not enjoy. If "keep them on the team" is not an option, then "keep them in the company" is vastly preferable to "have them leave to go work at $competitor". Naturally you'd rather they wouldn't find themselves wanting to leave, but that's not always realistic; Google has its fair share of bad managers and unpopular projects.
That's a lovely logic and there are far better solutions to the problem!

I mean, if meetings are mysteriously appearing on schedules and taking up too much expertise and time, relying on the expert to be the one to flag this situation is bass-ackwards from the get go. Have you considered: the meeting scheduler? Literally any other adult involved in the program office? Punting to the absolute extreme and asking IC's to handle it is ridiculous.

And in an environment where Damore flourished, how many projects turn "bad" and worthy of "starvation" right around the time a woman starts leading them?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

JawnV6 posted:

That's a lovely logic and there are far better solutions to the problem!

I mean, if meetings are mysteriously appearing on schedules and taking up too much expertise and time, relying on the expert to be the one to flag this situation is bass-ackwards from the get go. Have you considered: the meeting scheduler? Literally any other adult involved in the program office? Punting to the absolute extreme and asking IC's to handle it is ridiculous.

The intent of the "don't go to meetings" and "don't work on teams you don't like" rules is to detect when the above systems are failing. If you have a PM or manager or whatever that schedules too many meetings, if you're getting bogged down in "syncs", you can point to this rule as justification for why you're not attending them, even if your schedule is nominally free.

quote:

And in an environment where Damore flourished, how many projects turn "bad" and worthy of "starvation" right around the time a woman starts leading them?

I can't deny this possibility. There are absolutely issues of systemic subtle (or not-so-subtle) repression, harassment, under-promotion, etc throughout the entire industry. I'd like to think that the majority of devs aren't assholes enough to not want to have a woman above them in the management chain, such that the ones who are that level of rear end in a top hat and do leave don't sabotage the team by doing so. I don't have any statistics either way, though.

But again, the underlying principle behind all this is that you can't force people to work on your team. If they don't like the environment, they'll walk away and find a job somewhere else. If you don't give people the freedom to say no to meetings that they don't think are useful, then they'll look for another team; if you deny them the option to move to a different team within the company, then they'll go to a different team in a different company. They might do that anyway!

Shirec
Jul 29, 2009

How to cock it up, Fig. I

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I can't deny this possibility. There are absolutely issues of systemic subtle (or not-so-subtle) repression, harassment, under-promotion, etc throughout the entire industry. I'd like to think that the majority of devs aren't assholes enough to not want to have a woman above them in the management chain, such that the ones who are that level of rear end in a top hat and do leave don't sabotage the team by doing so. I don't have any statistics either way, though.

But again, the underlying principle behind all this is that you can't force people to work on your team. If they don't like the environment, they'll walk away and find a job somewhere else. If you don't give people the freedom to say no to meetings that they don't think are useful, then they'll look for another team; if you deny them the option to move to a different team within the company, then they'll go to a different team in a different company. They might do that anyway!

This is probably diverting away from the main point a bit, but people don't need to be "assholes" to negatively impact the careers of woman and POC. A lot of cis white men are not good about recognizing they have problematic behaviors. It can range from talking over co-workers to being argumentative to the much more outright sabotage and discriminatory behaviors. Even people that call themselves allies (and I include myself here as a white woman) can be terrible about this in a lot of ways.

That freedom can be a double edged sword, and if you look at the Google results, most POC and women devs are choosing to walk away.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Yeah, that's what I meant by subtle repression; I guess the other term is microaggression. It's a drat shame that the tech industry is so exclusionary in general.

But to turn things around a bit, imagine if you were a director with a rare female manager reporting to you (conferring a nontrivial amount of prestige), and she didn't have the freedom to go to another team without your approval. You can bet that the power dynamics would be way more abusive.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Working somewhere that you are locked into a position on a team you hate sounds terrible. I've never worked for a company that wasn't supportive of people moving around if they were unhappy, but I've only worked for large companies

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Kyth
Jun 7, 2011

Professional windmill tilter

Shirec posted:

This is probably diverting away from the main point a bit, but people don't need to be "assholes" to negatively impact the careers of woman and POC. A lot of cis white men are not good about recognizing they have problematic behaviors. It can range from talking over co-workers to being argumentative to the much more outright sabotage and discriminatory behaviors. Even people that call themselves allies (and I include myself here as a white woman) can be terrible about this in a lot of ways.

That freedom can be a double edged sword, and if you look at the Google results, most POC and women devs are choosing to walk away.

I'm pretty senior and a female leader (management ladder) at Google and haven't had issues, I'm actually really good at recruiting and retaining internal folks.

I also haven't seen evidence of "most POC and women devs are choosing to walk away" in any of the retention data for the several thousand engineers in the nearest groups around me, but obviously ymmv.

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