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If I've learned anything at all from these forums, it's that all you need to do to make this fit is cut some notches in your joists.
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Jul 15, 2018 00:52
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 06:11 |
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he does have a point
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Jul 15, 2018 00:53
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Look for a union shop, should be easy enough to Google at least the local hall, and go in and talk to them. If it's not some super weird configuration, they ought to be able to handle it with no problem. Finding the hall was merely so you can get a list of union shops. I'd recommend talking to a couple for pricing purposes, like with any trade. I mean you could probably go to any rat shop and get the same basic conversion, but I've only got experience with union shops.
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Jul 15, 2018 01:34
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Look up local sheet metal shops, most should be able to hang out some good ducts. But, as others have said, going union makes a big difference. The biggest thing will be making the transition pieces for the supply and return sides. But all you need for that is the cut sheet for the AHU so they know the dimensions of the opening. Also knowing what size ducts you're going to be installing and which style. Square, round, Spiral round, etc.... And also if you're doing interior or exterior insulation.
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Jul 15, 2018 01:50
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I'm not cutting the drat joists  Union shop is fine with me. I'll have to check around. Planning on a mix of 12in round and 16x8 rectangular ducts. ... Insulation on ducts. I guess that is a thing I should do.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:24
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Well it's not like there's anything else but the stairs uninsulated.
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Jul 15, 2018 06:21
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Regarding insulation, you might look at getting lined duct, unless you want to be wrapping duct with individual pieces of insulation in a cramped environment. I don't recommend it.
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Jul 15, 2018 06:30
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Yeah, either inside or out, you wanna make sure you have some kind of insulation on the ductwork there, unless you enjoy getting condensate all over your fresh new ceilings. If you're doing metal duct, supposedly it's better to have the wrap on the outside, since it provides a smoother surface for the air on the inside of the duct, but in reality, I've never really seen it make a significant difference either way. And also, Ductwrap is a product of the devil. So there's that too.
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Jul 15, 2018 23:37
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Well that's going to put a crimp in my expected air flow numbers, because insulation takes up space. Guess it's kinda important though! I'm dicking about trying to figure out how to mount this thing and it's being annoying. I think I've got it though. As usual I've gone overboard and this would support 500 or 1000lb safely but it's going to have about 120 hanging from it.
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Jul 17, 2018 02:00
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Eh, it should make that much of a difference. The exterior ductwrap is only like an inch or so thick.
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Jul 17, 2018 02:10
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An inch is a lot of the space I have available - I was gonna use 16x8 and 12in round smooth ducts. Using 14x6 and 10in may push my flow rates over the 900fpm ashrae limit I read about if I did my numbers right, but you are the pro and I'm the amateur so if you say it's fine I'll go with it. Anyhow... [Banjo sounds intensify]  This was sketchy and it kept teetering around and scaring the gently caress out of me but...  Victory. It's almost in place and mostly level and square. It was 1am so I couldn't use the angle grinder, thus it's not bolted in yet, but that's not far away at this point.
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Jul 17, 2018 16:42
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Angle grinder to install an air unit, loving lmbo, you're the best Ken. This is still one of the best diy threads.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:12
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What else am I supposed to cut allthread with? People use something other than an angle grinder...? What is this the stone age? 
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Jul 20, 2018 20:47
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are you saying you don't already own a portaband???
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Jul 20, 2018 21:20
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Leperflesh posted:are you saying you don't already own a portaband??? An aquantaince of mine has one and that is one of the most neato tools I've laid eyes on. Had never even heard of them before I saw his.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:54
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Leperflesh posted:are you saying you don't already own a portaband??? I do but it's kinda been on fire and I have to warranty it. Harbor freight portaband: not even a two-use tool. It started letting the smoke out on the first use and finished halfway through the second.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:09
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Yikes! Yeah that's no good.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:14
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Yeah I rate it a solid 1/10. Buy the real thing if you need one. A Milwaukee 5x5 deep cut is 280, the HF 5x5 one is 144. The difference? You get to use the Milwaukee more than once. Which is sad because their 4x6 bandsaw is excellent and I've been abusing it for... Five years now I think with no sign of it dying. Can't recommend that one enough.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:58
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kastein posted:Yeah I rate it a solid 1/10. Buy the real thing if you need one. A Milwaukee 5x5 deep cut is 280, the HF 5x5 one is 144. The difference? You get to use the Milwaukee more than once. You're just a human EMP. I'll send you a snapchat of me cutting railroad track with mine 
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Jul 21, 2018 01:39
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iForge posted:You're just a human EMP. I'll send you a snapchat of me cutting railroad track with mine Guilty as charged. Worth noting, what I was cutting with it was 3.5x1 inch steel tubing, but it cut it like a champ. Aside from the brushes burning out and the commutator looking like poo poo I was happy with it.
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Jul 21, 2018 21:10
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"Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how was the parade?"
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Jul 24, 2018 00:26
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It's hung. Now the hard part, ducting. (drat it, I can't even find anywhere that has an actual catalog for standard size ducting, despite the sizes I need being listed as standard in every datasheet and everyone claiming they carry all standard sizes.)
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Jul 25, 2018 00:27
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Better off just going to a shop and ordering it; Locke or similar may have some of what you need though.
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Jul 25, 2018 01:08
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Problem is I work a buttload of hours that are incompatible with going to shops. I will find a way to if I have to, but in the meantime I'm trying to find 12x6 rectangular duct online and lemme tell you it's great medication for low blood pressure but not very fruitful. I'm gonna be cross as gently caress if I have to go with 8in tall duct just because everyone in the industry is loving useless and lists airflow numbers for 4in and 6in tall rectangular ducts in their datasheet just for shits and giggles but doesn't actually make it standard.
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Jul 25, 2018 02:50
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Yeah, I work for a shop that fabricates almost all of its duct, so I can't really speak as to what is or isn't a common residential size.
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Jul 25, 2018 03:31
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Sounds like you need to call them. Sucks not to have a paper trail!
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Jul 25, 2018 09:35
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Well I've made some progress... It's always fun looking in a Home Depot bag and trying to puzzle together what in blue gently caress I was trying to accomplish with the fittings I bought.  I took a break from HVAC to set up the world's most heehaw router infeed and outfeed to finish making the new front door frame.  Alright time to dive into the wonderful opaque world of HVAC. It turns out these are called S cleats and drive cleats and you use them to connect duct sections together.  This is where the refrigerant lines will go through. I left space for insulation. It was also an excellent excuse to buy more drill bits for my rotary hammer. Whoever let me have one of those made a mistake, holding it makes me just want to drill holes in things. Probably because I'm mad with power as I previously considered things like brick, concrete, and granite to be immutable, not easily drilled.  Putting the power feed to and from the condenser unit together.  My first ducts. Hopefully using screws to hold the folded ends of the cleats down is kosher...  Had to cut out a structural header to get the duct through vertically, so I put another further down. It's held in with 3 6 inch structural screws on each end. All to support one drat joist.  Took a break from the house to make the chicken house bigger too.  Painted and ready for the new roof.  You might recall that a patio door was in the future plans and the living room wall was framed for this in advance. Well I stopped by Home Depot for supplies and the millwork guys know I'm a bottom feeder when it comes to big ticket purchases so they pointed me at this... Turns out someone else bought it custom order without learning how to use a tape measure first and management let them return it anyways. It's standard width and 1.5 inches shorter than standard. ... 1.5 inches you say? I seem to recall... Yeah turns out I framed the opening 3 inches under standard height with a sill plate and then a sole plate over it.  So instead of cutting both out and putting it right on the concrete like I planned, I cut one out and a friend's uncle came over and helped me install it.  Remember how I was complaining about websites selling HVAC parts sucking? Well they do. It's one of the least internet aware industries I've ever dealt with. One local supplier is so archaic that according to archive.org their website has been serving up nothing but the default "your webserver is working but your website is not uploaded to it yet" page FOR SEVEN loving YEARS. Apparently they don't know or care. Anyways. The reason I didn't want to go to a shop is my work schedule kills that mostly and almost all of them only sell to licensed HVAC techs. I found one that didn't mention that on their website and emailed them. They happily quoted me so I showed up and... Huge sign over the door saying "LICENSED HVAC CONTRACTORS ONLY PLEASE.". gently caress. Oh well, here goes. Turns out they just hate helping people who don't know what they're doing and ask stupid questions, because I walked in like I belonged there, said I had a quote and was here for it, paid, kept my mouth shut, got my poo poo and left.  Also got one metric buttload of gravel to make a well drained pad to put the condenser on.  Pictured: chinesium on granite, colorized, c. 2018  Turns out that 16x8 duct is actually about 16.25 wide, and the hole it had to go through after going around a corner is more like 15.5, and the drive cleats would be impossible to put on after the fact so... I just tore out a wall I built in 2012   At least I'll have easy comfortable access to finish the ducting and do some more wiring before I close it up again, though.  That's it for now, I'm gonna see how much ducting I can get done this week in the evenings.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:14
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your sheer productiveness is got me all like 
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Aug 7, 2018 23:28
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I don't know about up there, but 'round these parts those are just called S-locks and drives. As for screwing the knocked over drives, totally not necessary. Only time we ever do that is when it was a bitch connection. You might think about getting some duct sealer and covering the drives and seams. Not needed on residential, but will cut down on air leaks. Insulation is mostly to prevent condensation and to reduce the noise carrying from the unit as well as from the air flow.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:34
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I've actually been using Nashua 324A foil tape on all joints, just forgot to take any pictures of it. Thanks though! I do have a bucket of duct butter too but hoping to do mostly tape. As for productivity I have done alright recently but for the last year I've been going too slow. This place needs to be done.
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Aug 8, 2018 00:06
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Yea, foil tape is likely fine as long as you press it down good, it's not something we use much though, so I don't have much experience..
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Aug 8, 2018 01:57
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Starting to make the return box/filter rack. Oh God I have no idea what I'm doing.  Ok maybe a little bit of an idea. Except I got lines crossed in my head and had to cut the nicely folded and spot welded corner out to flare it out afterwards.  The sheet metal screws I got this time are way less frustrating than the last box I got.  These spot welds came out nice for a beginner using a chinesium spot welder (I got the 230vac harbor freight one and recommend it) I guess.  Mother fucker. Sheet metal bites back. This probably should have been stitched up but it was in an annoying spot to stitch and I wasn't spending 1300 on ER bills and waiting hours so I guess I will have another scar now.  And it's done!    It takes dual 10x24 filters. Not a standard size from home Depot but it was all I could fit without making a wart on the ceiling. This project has been an excuse to buy a lot more tools. So far I've gotten a set of aviation shears, 30in HF sheetmetal brake, 230vac HF spot welder, and the HF hydraulic knockout punch tool. Surprisingly they all work just as they're supposed to.   Then I tried to install the assembled duct, like ten feet at a time. Luckily not the one I spent all day building a filter rack on. Because I dropped it and... gently caress you gravity  There went 50 bucks. Oh well.  Had to put a new cross beam in where I cut an old one out to make space for ducting.  This time I put the ducts in in 3 pieces instead of trying for only 2. Top section (90 degree bend, 18in straight) to 4ft straight, got the drive cleats on. The back one was a pain in the rear end. Ratchet straps are my favorite tool.  Getting the drive cleats onto the third section (another 4 footer, then a flat 90) was even more of a pain in the rear end and I don't want to talk about taping it. I can't believe I didn't lose any blood.  That's all for now. I took the day off to pick up more duct parts and the two new windows for the home office/current bedroom.
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Aug 15, 2018 18:18
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kastein posted:Mother fucker. Sheet metal bites back. This probably should have been stitched up but it was in an annoying spot to stitch and I wasn't spending 1300 on ER bills and waiting hours so I guess I will have another scar now. What no superglue? For filters I've found buying cases from Nordic Pure to be the easiest (but not cheapest) option: https://nordicpure.com/filter-size/1-ac-furnace-air-filter/10x24x1.html (Don't know what dept you chose there, they make everything.)
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Aug 15, 2018 18:30
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Careful with lacerations/punctures there -- if it's deep enough to hit tendon an infection can suck
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Aug 15, 2018 23:31
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That's a good idea, I'll probably order from them in the future. Airfiltersdelivered has had my money for 11 days now and just emailed me saying they have a "material shortage" causing delays in their supplier deliveries, so I'm not too impressed with them to say the least. Hand is doing fine - I could see subcutaneous fat so I was concerned but I've been to the ER for this poo poo before and got the nurses to teach me how to check for nerve, tendon, and artery damage. I had none of those things by some stroke of luck. So I just doused it with peroxide (yeah I know some people think that's terrible, no I don't care, I've been using it as a disinfectant for fifteen years and not had issues with it) put some Neosporin on it and bandaged it up. So far it's healing perfectly with no sign of infection. Got the return plenum installed today. It was a pain in the rear end because some dumb rear end built a house in the way and THEN decided to put in central air. Getting the drive cleats on a few of these junctions has been really annoying...  It lines up reasonably well for a beginner project and apparently supports its own weight though. I got the last drive cleat on, adjusted the duct position into its final location, and went downstairs and it wasn't hanging on the temporary strapping anymore...  Not perfect but good enough. This gap will be closed by the canvas vibration prevention duct joint. Which is going to suck to install because again I didn't think this poo poo through. 
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Aug 16, 2018 00:32
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Peroxide is a great disinfectant ... it just also kills healthy tissue as well. But it'll be cleaned out fine. So keep putting the Neosporin on it. Depending on length I might have just glue the fucker up if it were my hand. It's the left, so I could throw the stitches pretty easily, but I'm better at tying one-handed knots with my left hand (since the right is holding the instrument). Fabrication looks like it's going well. I hope you do a walkthrough of this place sometime.
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Aug 16, 2018 00:58
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RE: Filters: I use http://www.filtereasy.com for my filters. They'll automatically bill you and send you new filters when it's time to change them. Makes sure my filters actually get changed at a regular interval versus them getting changed/cleaned when I notice the dust buildup on the outside of the return.
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Aug 16, 2018 02:55
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Well the company I went with still hasn't shipped so I'm going to tell them to gently caress off and use the one you linked. Thanks. This weekend was... Exhausting. Sudden decisions were made unexpectedly. I started out working on central air: The HVAC supply shop got my custom 12x6 duct to me.  Not bad price wise, I felt a little screwed at first because it was 360 dollars-ish, but that was for 4x 8ft lengths of custom product. It turns out I was paying around $38 a section for 4ft lengths of standard 16x8 (well, 19 per half section, same thing) which is only 50 bucks less than the custom stuff and the custom duct is really great quality, very well made, and requires a third as much assembly per foot so I think I won. However they said they couldn't do my 12x6 flat 90 for less than like 50 to 60 bucks and couldn't do my 12x6 to 8in round transition at all. So I got clever and bought a $23 12x8 flat 90 and did a middle-ectomy on the short sides. This spot welder was a good purchase.   Then Saturday I was staring at the end of the 12x6 flat 90 trying to figure out how I was gonna make my 12x6 to 8in round transition... And it hit me that I bought a half dozen 12x6x8 register boots that are 99% the same as what I needed!  2 minutes later with the snips, folding tool, and duct crimper, and I had my duct transition! It worked perfectly:  Put the register boot in at the other end. It was a tight fit, I forgot the last joist bay is smaller than the rest.  Hung 16 feet of duct and the flat 90 and transition:  And then I was taking a break and staring at the ceiling and muttering to myself about how the gently caress I was gonna make the next section fit and took a break to check Facebook... Hit the wrong button and ended up in marketplace.  Wait... THE gently caress??? FREE GRANITE?! Turns out a local granite countertop shop decided to stop paying their rent and got evicted. And the landlord decided to stop dealing with shithead tenants and sold the place to someone who wants to start a doggy daycare. As such they want all the granite scraps out of their way. I and my wife and like 100 other people were more than happy to oblige, my first load was stacked 5 slabs deep. My poor truck hates me I think.  The 3x7 sheet drat near flattened me out when I stood it up and walked it over to the tree. One mistake with that stuff and gravity takes over.  Sunday another load. I think I have extra but I'm sure I'll screw the pooch on at least one cut so I may need it.  So I guess I need to buy a wet saw now. This piece is up for grabs if my coworker doesn't want it for his workbench:  This 118x22in piece went to the hangar, my buddy Jack is going to use it as a ghetto machinists inspection bench and for fixturing airplane wing molds:  I also helped a friend load up his truck with granite slabs. Between all that and pulling the engine out of my Forester Sunday night I feel like someone beat me half to death twice and ain't done poo poo tonight. Maybe tomorrow.
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Aug 28, 2018 05:26
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Ducts look wild. Sweet score on the granite.
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Aug 28, 2018 05:34
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 06:11 |
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12x6 square to 8 round, while not super common should have been absolutely no problem for any shop worth going to, unless you were wanting it to be less than ~10 inches tall. ( I don't recall the exact conversion off the top of my head)
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Aug 28, 2018 05:40
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